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Offline rpar86

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #650 on: March 15, 2016, 04:28:55 PM »
THIS JUST IN, SD TO BE SOLD IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR OBSCURE WOODWORKING BISQUIT MAKER! OWNER DON "BIG D" HARWARD UNAVAILABLE FOR COMMENT, BUT IS RUMORED TO BE ABANDONING ALL MOTORIZED 4 WHEEL VEHICLE BASED PROJECTS IN FAVOR OF CUSTOM CABINETRY! LOCAL INTERNET SOURCES OF SUSPECT RELIABILITY THEORIZE THAT HE IS TAKING HIS EMP PROOF PLANS TO EXTREME, AND SUBSCRIBING TO AMISH MODES OF TRANSPORTATION! EOTWAWKI EMP-PROOF-COMBAT-HORSE-AND-BUGGY-EXTREME-SURVIVAL MACHINE IN THE WORKS!  ;D

LOL!!!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 04:29:45 PM by rpar86 »
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #651 on: March 15, 2016, 04:39:26 PM »
Being in the position I am in, a Supreme Global Moderator, and being the reserved and sophisticated man that I am, won't allow me to find your antics humorous nor comment on them.
Giving the Boss a hard time is just not in my DNA.














hehehehehe :)
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Offline cj7ox

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #652 on: March 15, 2016, 04:52:55 PM »
Being in the position I am in, a Supreme Global Moderator, and being the reserved and sophisticated man that I am, won't allow me to find your antics humorous nor comment on them.
Giving the Boss a hard time is just not in my DNA.














hehehehehe :)
:o ::) :-X :D
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #653 on: March 15, 2016, 05:01:33 PM »
THIS JUST IN, SD TO BE SOLD IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR OBSCURE WOODWORKING BISQUIT MAKER! OWNER DON "BIG D" HARWARD UNAVAILABLE FOR COMMENT, BUT IS RUMORED TO BE ABANDONING ALL MOTORIZED 4 WHEEL VEHICLE BASED PROJECTS IN FAVOR OF CUSTOM CABINETRY! LOCAL INTERNET SOURCES OF SUSPECT RELIABILITY THEORIZE THAT HE IS TAKING HIS EMP PROOF PLANS TO EXTREME, AND SUBSCRIBING TO AMISH MODES OF TRANSPORTATION! EOTWAWKI EMP-PROOF-COMBAT-HORSE-AND-BUGGY-EXTREME-SURVIVAL MACHINE IN THE WORKS!  ;D


can't believe it just read that whole thing. hahaah
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 05:48:05 PM by nmeyer414 »

Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #654 on: March 15, 2016, 06:01:36 PM »
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 06:04:31 PM by JR »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #655 on: March 15, 2016, 08:11:34 PM »
I feel bad for firing Ken earlier...The man is loyal...unlike the rest of these common rabble, numbskulls hanging around here!

So Kasich is leading in the Ohio...Wow!
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Offline stlaser

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #656 on: March 15, 2016, 08:36:28 PM »
You get bcm's email on kaisich today? Apparently he's buddy buddy with Kens gf....... ::)

Now I've decided as far as SQ d goes I'm done talking about it because it no longer exists or at least that's my story for now......
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #657 on: March 15, 2016, 10:11:32 PM »
You get bcm's email on kaisich today? Apparently he's buddy buddy with Kens gf....... ::)

Now I've decided as far as SQ d goes I'm done talking about it because it no longer exists or at least that's my story for now......
I'm just too busy with everything else to be able to sac a bunch of days on SquareD right now. I'd have liked to get in and finish the rear long spring conversion, but I am about topped out with time allocation. There was a big something I was working on since fall which seems to have gone quiet for the moment so between spring time clean up, farm work and everything else, there might be a time soon to work on that truck. It will be fins sitting there for now...
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #658 on: March 16, 2016, 10:48:25 AM »
I was binge watching "Evolution" last night and thought about diesel trucks? They did get a old steam engine going and the gun issue was interesting.

Thought about how SD would fit right into this scenario. Plus it would be a prime target near any population.
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Offline Tedram

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #659 on: April 28, 2016, 01:05:53 PM »
Just thought I would BUMP this up to the top of the build thread, it was getting hard to find.......... hint hint
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Offline moto123

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #660 on: April 28, 2016, 01:18:28 PM »
I think square D must have been upgraded to "lawn ornament status"  ;)

Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #661 on: April 28, 2016, 03:31:25 PM »
Well, besides the bumping I just made it a sticky,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #662 on: May 04, 2016, 02:36:16 PM »
So I started with a couple hours of cleaning up scads of dog and cat hair and dead bugs, leaves and everything I didn't want to mess with over the winter.

I kept looking at the truck the whole time

Then I crawled underside.

First thing I noticed was a cool looking truck
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #663 on: May 04, 2016, 02:37:44 PM »
Then I spied the flat front springs! ERRRRRRR!!!!!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #664 on: May 04, 2016, 02:39:10 PM »
Then I got to looking at the fuel pumps, fuel filter and lines

So since I was there I pulled the engine supply line off the filter and placed it directly onto the fuel pump outlet
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #665 on: May 04, 2016, 02:40:02 PM »
Then this happened:
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 02:47:44 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #666 on: May 04, 2016, 02:48:21 PM »
ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #667 on: May 04, 2016, 02:50:09 PM »
That is awesome, now tell me it moved under its own power, just a little. So, you bypassed the stock lift pump and here you are?

DR looks lonely and dusty.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 02:51:04 PM by JR »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #668 on: May 04, 2016, 03:10:29 PM »
DR about to get new tires!

No, it didn't move. No brakes. Need to solve that puzzle, then play with the transmission. Still lots of things not hooked up because I don't know how to just yet.

Yes, I just plumbed around the fuel filter and it started smoking like always, but then started to clear. I let it run for 15 minutes and it wasn't smoking at all for maybe the last 10 minutes of running. Has a bit of an accleration miss. I believe the fuel pressure is still way low, so have to address that next
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #669 on: May 04, 2016, 03:12:03 PM »
Shows fuel pressure idling, accelerating and running at maybe 2,500-3,000 RPM
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #670 on: May 04, 2016, 03:14:20 PM »
Doesn't seem like the stock lift pump is producing enough pressure???

Engine holds good oil pressure, and the fuel quantity gage works as does the ammeter, but the water temp is no-worky
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #671 on: May 04, 2016, 03:15:09 PM »
So that is from the lift pumps? That is a solid number.

3000 rpm, DRIVE THAT PUP!!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #672 on: May 04, 2016, 03:15:43 PM »
HMMM, bad pics!

Well the overhead shows both batteries getting a strong charge
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #673 on: May 04, 2016, 03:17:14 PM »
So that is from the lift pumps? That is a solid number.

3000 rpm, DRIVE THAT PUP!!
That is after the kennedy lift pumps,

AND

The stock lift pump!

That is NOT a good numba for after the stock mechanical pump!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #674 on: May 04, 2016, 03:18:40 PM »
Red Dog cruisin' the A.O. for a tasty screw driver!

Despite all the dust, red dogs, and other bad, bad things, the truck lives!
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Offline cj7ox

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #675 on: May 04, 2016, 03:19:59 PM »
THIS JUST IN! Reliable sources report that Square D has been brought to life! It is no longer suffering from neglect and the degrading affects of excessive dust collection! Reports indicate that the beautifully engineered Cummins powerplant has successfully started, despite an exorbitant lack of attention and almost destructively abusive environment! Hopefully this is an indicator that the owner, Mr. Harward, has decided to actually finish this project prior to the EOTWAWKI!  ;D
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #676 on: May 04, 2016, 03:24:19 PM »
Shouldn't the stock lift pump show about 30psi as rpm goes up? That should be a simple fix.

Front springs, what is the lift on those?
 
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #677 on: May 04, 2016, 03:35:24 PM »
Shouldn't the stock lift pump show about 30psi as rpm goes up? That should be a simple fix.

Front springs, what is the lift on those?
 

I don't get that at all

Fuel pressure is the same at any RPM???

Almost as if the stock lift pump is not working at all

Now this has me thinking

Does the stock lift pump have a pushrod that runs it off the cam or does it just run straight off the camshaft?

Did Don forget to put that push rod back into the engine???
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #678 on: May 04, 2016, 03:41:31 PM »
Didn't you add a spacer to that as well? Pretty sure it runs off the cam.
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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #679 on: May 04, 2016, 03:45:09 PM »
Yup
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #680 on: May 04, 2016, 04:06:48 PM »
I just found that diagram as well.

Yes I added the spacer.

I wonder if I need to prime the pump, by pushing on the prime button several times or something?

This has me scratching my head
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #681 on: May 04, 2016, 04:41:32 PM »
Awesome news Boss!!

Priming it won't help since the other pumps have forced fuel thru it already.

There's a chance that the plunger is stuck "in". On a cummins lift pump, they pump on the "return" stroke. I would loosen the pump, bump the engine slowly, and see if the pump 'rocks" back and forth. That will tell us if the plunger is contacting the camshaft lobe....or.... pull it off and get out some measuring devices to see if it's stuck.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #682 on: May 04, 2016, 05:11:35 PM »
We may recall that I pulled it apart to install the heavier spring some time ago. I'm frying brain cells to sty and figure out if I left something out or amiss, but I don't think so.

But if the pressure doesn't change, that pump can't be working!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #683 on: May 04, 2016, 05:12:29 PM »
Oh, and I ran across a short article that I just posted down in the RM data base about how to wire out the computer in these stone age Dodges
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #684 on: May 04, 2016, 06:08:45 PM »
OK, i ran it again.

At idle it is showing 10 psi pressure. Now as I rev it the pressure climbs to around 15 psi.

So

The fuel pump/lift pump is working

But

The pressure is much less than it should be

So, still thinking it through
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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #685 on: May 04, 2016, 06:38:35 PM »
Don.... you must have a five gallon can you can use for fuel? Just run the mechanical lift pump off that temp like and see what happens to your fuel pressure. It will take maybe 30 min tops...you will have isolated the issue completely by doing that.

Your this close man

Offline KensAuto

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #686 on: May 04, 2016, 06:58:08 PM »
What he said^^^. That way you can see what the lift is doing without interference from ANYTHING else.

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Offline JR

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #687 on: May 04, 2016, 07:11:35 PM »
Bleed it and I like what Ken said. With the spacer did it come with a longer piston?
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #688 on: May 04, 2016, 07:56:44 PM »
it would stand to reason that with the spacer in between the pump and block, it would shorten your stroke, giving you pressure, and changing pressure with increased RPM, but not your full stroke.. do not your full potential fuel PSI.

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #689 on: May 04, 2016, 08:11:54 PM »
^^^^^^what he said^^^^^ clicked in my head when I read "spacer"
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #690 on: May 04, 2016, 09:09:57 PM »
also.. I can't get the vid to work :/ hahah.

awesome to hear it's running!!

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #691 on: May 04, 2016, 09:22:05 PM »
rebuild kit may have been universal.. and the spacer could be for a fuel heater delete on a 2nd gen (the heater bracket sits behind the pump). springs would be the same.. but plungers would be different lengths..    ??? 

just guessing.. hahah

Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #692 on: May 04, 2016, 09:54:27 PM »
Don.... you must have a five gallon can you can use for fuel? Just run the mechanical lift pump off that temp like and see what happens to your fuel pressure. It will take maybe 30 min tops...you will have isolated the issue completely by doing that.

Your this close man
Now, why would I need to rewire off a 5 gal fuel can?

Makes no sense

I am coming off the tank through two Kennedy lift pumps whick by themselves supply around 8 psi fuel to the lift pump. I'd have even less pressure if I went around them!

How could lift pumps, designed to feed a diesel engine be a restriction?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #693 on: May 04, 2016, 10:00:37 PM »
Bleed it and I like what Ken said. With the spacer did it come with a longer piston?
You cannot run the lift pump with out either the fuel heater flange or a spacer.

Perhaps the gentleman who sent me the replacement spring sent the wrong one, but I can say that the replacement spring was thicker and more resistance that the VE spring that was in there.

Nah, that's not it...

Things that are suspect to me are
1. The dual inlet fuel line I used
2. A very loud "Crack" sound when I was pulling the front plug out of the Bosch injection Pump
3. The pressure relief valve on the return side of the pump possibly has failed
4. The lift pump is the wrong unit altogether.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #694 on: May 04, 2016, 10:02:36 PM »
He means take the supply (suction) hose off the mechanical pump, and stick it in the bucket. That eliminates everything back to the tank and will tell us what the lift pump is doing, pressure wise.
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #695 on: May 04, 2016, 10:08:18 PM »
I'll double check my '89, but I don't think there is a spacer at all between the fuel pump and block.

if it doesn't, and you have a factory VE lift pump with spacer, you'd be operating at the very bottom end of its stroke. so you're missing 3/16" of stroke..? so the reading you're getting is just from the Kennedy pumps pushing fuel through the block lift pump?

I'm just shooting in the dark here.. hahah

Offline Flyin6

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #696 on: May 04, 2016, 10:12:44 PM »
I'll double check my '89, but I don't think there is a spacer at all between the fuel pump and block.

if it doesn't, and you have a factory VE lift pump with spacer, you'd be operating at the very bottom end of its stroke. so you're missing 3/16" of stroke..? so the reading you're getting is just from the Kennedy pumps pushing fuel through the block lift pump?

I'm just shooting in the dark here.. hahah
I think that may be it really

Your 89 has a completely different design pump than I have or is used on a P-Pump engine. Apples/oranges thing...

I purchased this pump for my VE motor

The pump is intended for a P-Pump engine though, and is used as a high performance alternative for the earlier VE motors.

It was designed to be run with a spacer, and the guy selling it replaces the high pressure spring with a lower press unit to be VE friendly.

So I simply installed the original spring and bolted it on. From everything I can tell, the pump requires the spacer to stroke properly...

However

I am not sure since it started as this VE hi-po pump
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 10:13:48 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #697 on: May 04, 2016, 10:29:27 PM »
interesting.

I would have thought my '89 VE would be the same as your 5.9. but.. since it's an aftermarket upgrade from a VE to PPump style.. no telling what that stroke actually is. or if the cam lobe is the same for each..  seems to be lots of variables. I know those cummins lift pumps aren't cheap.. but getting the pump that fits your serial number might be the most solid start..?

still.. great to hear that it's running.

if you think it may be the block lift pump, can always hook the kennedys up in series, bypass the block pump and run it straight to the filter. that should produce ~ 16psi, no?

OldKooT

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #698 on: May 04, 2016, 10:44:24 PM »
There are 4 pumps of the piston variety for this application. For our purposes the only facts relative is if you have the thick spring, then you should be making around 28 psi ish at idle. The spacer is required and is there because the same piston pump is used on other Cummins series. The B series requires the spacer.

It's possible you have a bad pump, it's happened before. It's possible you have a bad relief/pressure valve on the pump, that happens also....but the reason behind eliminating the entire fuel system other than the piston lift pump is to determine if you have a issue with the piston pump or if your fuel system is the issue.

I run these engines almost daily, a can of fuel, a fuel line and a OEM lift pump, and they will perform perfectly. If yours doesn't when isolated, you know the issue is lift pump related.

On a side note... if those electric pumps are not producing the volume of fuel the lift pump needs, it will be limited to producing only whats available. A suspect issue when you see no rise in fuel pressure with RPM initially.

A further example: Patch has a high pressure lift pump and a boost referenced bypass regulator and OEM fuel lines. I just looked at the fuel pressure gauge tonight. It idles at 29 psi and makes close to 40 at 2500rpm. I have it set to run the VE at 15psi but that said... your pump should act similar. Starvation could be affecting it's output.


Offline swbhobie16

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Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
« Reply #699 on: May 04, 2016, 10:54:30 PM »
the wealth of knowledge that is contained in the space between norms ears is ever amazing ..

 

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