2002 Suburban 2500 Duramax conversion discussion

[Flyin6]

So as not to detract too much from the standing build thread of my 2500 Suburban, let's discuss a duramax conversion here.

I will consider this a feasibility study into the possibility of installing a Duramax into the 2002 Suburban 2500

So baseline goal will be to install:

1. LBZ Duramax engine stock less than 80,000 miles or a rebuilt LBZ
    With: CP3 pump
             5 position EFI tuning
             Stock or close to stock turbo
             No EGR, no Catalytic in the exhaust
2. Allison 6-speed transmission
    Allison built sufficient to outlive the largest tune on the engine
3. Retain all factory features the truck was built with
4. Make it look close to stock
5. Have no unsolvable electronic quirks

To accomplish this transplant I will buy new:
Radiator
All hoses, belts, lines, fittings and so forth from GM
Intercooler
Use aftermarket I/C piping and couplers
Utilize aftermarket air filter
Utilize aftermarket exhaust manifolds and up pipes
Utilize aftermarket down pipe
Utilize a new 4" exhaust with a quiet muffler

Rebuild the engine
Build the transmission
Utilize a performance triple clutch converter
Utilize a fresh GM transfer case

So with all that being said, lets talk about how to do this, what it will take, and vendors

I will be performing all the labor myself and documenting here

[Flyin6]

TexasRedNeck has already suggested I procure a same year 2500 as a donor

But

The same year utilizes a LB-7 engine which uses injectors inside the valve covers and has weaker connecting rods

and

It has a 5-speed Ally transmission

[Bigdave_185]

Subbed lol to see how long it takes to adjust the title of other threads to “diesel conversion I should have started with”


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[TexasRedNeck]

Don I believe I posted a link to duramax diesels website somewhere back where it detailed the issue you will confront with the can bus comm protocol.

Your best bet is to run LLY heads and injectors regardless of which bottom end you run. Unless you want to completely rewire the entire truck or deal with aftemarket ECU harnesses that won’t sync up with the rest of your modules you must run the LB7 FICM and ECM due to the differences in comm protocols in the 01-03 duramax platform.

This method is tried and true and to u don’t have to guess or try to solve a huge mess of issues.  I’ve researched it’s what I plan on doing with my LB7.  You can run LB7 rods or wagler street rods without breaking the bank.


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[rpar86]

To fit the Allison I believe you need a body lift to fit it in the trans tunnel.


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[Farmer Jon]

I did some research on this several years ago when I was shopping for the LBZ. I had a real nice 06 suburban but it didn't pull the camper worth a dang. I thought I wold just find a wreaked diesel and swap it. Its a lot more involved than I expected.

From what I understand abut Duraburb swaps is that they basically take a truck and suburban side by side and swap everything. The entire drive train. The stock Burb diffs cant handle the duramax. There was a company out in Colorado that did them. Then they resell the truck as a half ton gasser.

They figured out a way to flash the Burb computer to accept the duramax bla bla technical stuff I don't understand so they could use the factory gauges.

[Flyin6]

First on DuraBurb, I talked to them yesterday. They do not swap anything prior to 2007 any longer, so that option is out if I were to choose to just have it done

Duramax suburbans did not return my call

Mash motors did return my call, and I had a nice conversation with Mike, the owner. He can do it, thats 4-6 weeks and would cost a bit north of 30K with a used engine and a built Allison.

You know, 30K is a lot of money, a substance I have in adequate abundance, but not so much that I would squirm over laying out that kind of scratch

So, I checked and my rich uncle has not died in the poor house yet and left me an inheritance, so I have to think strategically and as a good steward of my funds.

But the biggest reason, I think I will just do this all myself (Although the Mash Motors is tempting), and if I decide to do it is that this project sounds like a ton of freakin fun!

Ya, like, I think I would really like to look at this thing, all finished up, and say, "Why yes, I did all that myself."

That's all part of the pilot narcissism thing, and like the jeep crowd says, "You wouldn't understand." (And, that, by the way, is a good thing!)

[Flyin6]

Subbed lol to see how long it takes to adjust the title of other threads to “diesel conversion I should have started with”


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Another barnacle scrappin, mariner...

[Flyin6]

Don I believe I posted a link to duramax diesels website somewhere back where it detailed the issue you will confront with the can bus comm protocol.

Your best bet is to run LLY heads and injectors regardless of which bottom end you run. Unless you want to completely rewire the entire truck or deal with aftemarket ECU harnesses that won’t sync up with the rest of your modules you must run the LB7 FICM and ECM due to the differences in comm protocols in the 01-03 duramax platform.

This method is tried and true and to u don’t have to guess or try to solve a huge mess of issues.  I’ve researched it’s what I plan on doing with my LB7.  You can run LB7 rods or wagler street rods without breaking the bank.


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OK Tex, you have the controls, (you answer: "I have the controls," I look to confirm you do have the controls, then I relinquish them

Safety first!

Seriously, Red, you who don't know how to do anything less than first class, have thought this thing through so let's just make this the plan

So you are telling me I need to find

A Duramax short block, or perhaps, just a whole motor
Then swap on LLY heads and injectors
Find a LB7 FICM and ECM

So going forward with this plan

What else would I need to obtain?

Keep the stock LB7 engine harness?
or
Does someone supply a plug and play harness to make all that happen

As for the short block, I will most likely have whatever engine, and especially a LB7 overhauled, so bolting in new rods would not be a stretch.

What of the transmission in this conceptual setup...Could I go with a later model 6-speed, or would I have to keep it mated to a 5-speed?

To fit the Allison I believe you need a body lift to fit it in the trans tunnel.


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Yes you do, which complicates things a bit

I already have a 7" lift. Adding another 2" of body spacin to it would make for a too tall truck
so
I may have to relook the lift and take some of that height out of there
Easily done by relaxing the torsion bars and shortening the shackle
Because
I think I would swap the ring and pinions out for 4.56's like my truck has, along with 37" tires, which add yet another inch in height.

It all starts to get a bit complicated at this point, but the bottom line is: will a 6.0 gasser which gets around 10mpg, ever effectively tow a camper and haul 4 peeps and a bunch of stuff?

My thinking is that it might but it would be a strain.

And that in of itself, constitutes the entirety of the wanting for a diesel.

[Flyin6]

Quote I got from Mash Motors:


The base conversion for the 2002-2013 GM 2500 large SUV will result in an increase to 380 HP and 18- 25 mpg. In the conversion we use all factory GM parts to complete the conversion. The total turnkey cost of the conversion is $29,500.00. The total conversion will take an average of 45 days to complete. I require $19,500.00 down payment with the remaining balance due upon completion and your satisfaction with the conversion. When I receive the vehicle, I will remove the body and do a thorough power washing to remove all grease and contaminants from the frame and drive train. I will inspect the complete drive train for any wear or damaged components and inform you of what I feel needs to be corrected or replaced. Below is a list of all the components you will receive in the conversion.

6.6 Liter Duramax Turbo Diesel Engine

Allison M1000 6 Speed Automatic Transmission

NP HD Transfer Case W/ 2HI, 4HI, 4LOW

New Turbo Inter cooler

New Radiator

Over sized Fan, and Fan Clutch

Over sized Transmission and Engine Oil Cooler

New Rear Drive Shaft

New Front Drive Shaft

New Motor Mounts

New Transmission Mount

Custom High Flow Exhaust 4 Inch

Custom High Flow Air Intake

New Diesel Speedometer

New Fuel Lines Bio-Diesel Ready

All Necessary Fluids, Hoses, and Hardware.

*Drivetrains used in conversion will be used low mileage pullouts (average miles 70K)*

Mash Motors Inc will retain the old drive train and components that are removed from your vehicle during the conversion process. The stock motor and transmission will be used as a core charge for the diesel engine and Allison transmission. If you want to retain the stock motor and transmission there will be a core charge of $2,500.00 added to the conversion cost.

If you have any questions please feel free to give me a call at 316-617-2472

Thank You,

Michael Mash / Mash Motors Inc.

[Flyin6]

And Mash Motors performance upgrades list:


HUMMER H2, PERFORMANCE UPGRADES

Stage Five Transmission Upgrade $5125.00

Triple lock converter

HD input and output shafts

New clutches and steels

Valve body upgrade

All gaskets and seals

Power Programmer $899.00

Five levels of performance/fuel economy increase

Retrieve and clear engine codes

Adjust speedometer for larger tires

Transmission relearn tool

EfI Live Custom Tuning $999.00

Includes 5 custom tunes

DSP5 Dash Mounted Switch

EFI Live Single Tune

Includes 1 Custom Tune $349.00

Front Suspension Upgrades $2194.00

Upper control arm kit

Heavy duty tie rods

Heavy duty sway bar

Heavy duty torsion keys

Bilstein shocks

Steering stabilizer

Rear Suspension Upgrades $829.00

Heavy duty sway bar

Bilstein shock

[Flyin6]

So, I guess the cost of doing this thing is actually around $40K

Sort of makes this a hard pill to swallow

Or for the same $40K, I could just keep my Suburban the way it is and purchase a used duraburb and have two!

[Bigdave_185]

Most of that list you added already as far as  suspension stuff, thos parts could be pulled off.  The EFI could be sourced through black bear also. And cut your costs to.   

The code reader ?  Muh edge insite 2 ?  Used for a lot less money

I think they are a one stop shop where you have most of these other $1000 items already in your pocket


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[BobbyB]

Fix the vehicle. Leave it gas, use it for whatever you need. If you want/need another Diesel then get one. This back and forth swap parts and hope it all works in the end isn't going to get you anywhere in reality, as you found out in Square D and more recently in this Suburban.

But that's just my opinion.

[Bigdave_185]

And Mash Motors performance upgrades list:


HUMMER H2, PERFORMANCE

UPGRADES


What are Hummer H2 Upgrades?

Stage Five Transmission Upgrade $5125.00

Triple lock converter

HD input and output shafts

New clutches and steels
These two clutches and what not all come in a built trans from MikeL
Valve body upgrade

All gaskets and seals

Power Programmer $899.00. What the hell is a power programmer if you add efi

Five levels of performance/fuel economy increase

Retrieve and clear engine codes.   Sounds dumb

Adjust speedometer for larger tires. GPS tool?

Transmission relearn tool re learn tool?  Edge insite for $500 does this and codes and gauges and lots of stuff

EfI Live Custom Tuning $999.00. Black bear who?

Includes 5 custom tunes

DSP5 Dash Mounted Switch that switch I cheap

EFI Live Single Tune

Includes 1 Custom Tune $349.00

Front Suspension Upgrades $2194.00.    Yeah o think you have this already

Upper control arm kit. No need again

Heavy duty tie rods. Already installed

Heavy duty sway bar again really don’t need

Heavy duty torsion keys.  None

Bilstein shocks nope again

Steering stabilizer. Nope

Rear Suspension Upgrades $829.00 non needed

Heavy duty sway bar not needed

Bilstein shock. Not needed

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[Flyin6]

^^^ For clarity, the list of stuff beneath the Mash Motors name is their parts and recommendations for their D-Max swap.

They are not my list.

And yea, I have a lot of that already done.

Bobby: This is a feasibility discussion at this point. We certainly need BlackBear to finish the tune work or point to where a problem may lie. Without doing that, how could I access the viability of a gas motor in this thing? Obviously, I couldn't

But if it comes to pass that I can only get this thing to easily tow the new camper at 10 MPG or less and possibly have trouble with higher altitudes, like driving in the Rockies, well, then there would be cause to look to a diesel conversion.

The Burb needs to be able to tow, be reliable, comfortable, and get reasonable mileage. If it doesn't, then it only being a family transporter with a roof tent falls short of what I need it to be, and I don't want to "Have to" purchase yet another vehicle to tow the camper while hauling loads of people.

My backup, the truck can do all these things, but is a bit large and cumbersome and I don't see it doing well on anything more constrained than a forest access road. The burb is maneuverable, has a very tight turning radius, and is abundantly large with interior space. It "IS" the vehicle, the perfect vehicle for this overlanding thing I am interested in pursuing.

[Flyin6]

So, who makes that conversion harness?

And Dave, could you elaborate on the edge insight thing?

[Bigdave_185]

This is the newest version of what I have,

Check and read codes, multiple gauge options and layouts
Simple clean and easy.  You would have to verify if this can replace your 5 dsp switch or not. 

https://edgeproducts.com/shop/insight-pro-cts2


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[TexasRedNeck]

https://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16887&highlight=LLY+heads+lb7


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