REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Build Threads => Topic started by: Flyin6 on March 11, 2024, 07:06:29 PM
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I began ownership of a new Ram dually truck today.
I had to trade in my 2022 Ram 3500 because that single rear-wheel 6.5' bed vehicle was unable to carry the truck camper I had just purchased.
I learned a hard lesson here. The single-wheel Ram had a payload of 4027 listed clearly in the driver's door jamb. I. however looked up some statistics online at the Ram truck site and made the camper purchase using the Ram website numbers.
The website numbers turned out to be very enthusiastic and the actual truck number was nearly 1,000 lbs. less
I found this out Friday night and so Saturday morning I had a candid discussion with my wife. I explained my mistake and showed her the numbers. I only had 16 pounds available weight to carry black and gray water, food, drinks, clothes, dishes, knives and forks, a toolbox, chairs, a table, and on and on. I explained that we had two choices. First would be to just do it illegally and hope for the best. The downside of that is should I be involved in an accident and anyone did the math, I would be shown to be negligent, perhaps grossly negligent. That would preclude the insurance from paying and could open me up to litigation if anyone else suffered harm. But it was a choice.
Door number two was to just can the truck and go buy a dually. I did not want to do that.
We decided for several reasons to bite the bullet and purchase the Dually and here it is in all it's newness and splendor.
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This one is a 2024 Ram Heavy Duty 3500 Dually
It is a Big Horn with fewer options than I had in my older Laramie.
This one, however, has the HO engine with 1050 ft/lbs of torque, an AISIN transmission, 4-wheel drive with 4.10 gears and a huge 50-gallon fuel tank.
It also has dual alternators for 440amp potential.
Niceties are the big 12" screen, CarPlay, Alpine stereo, a bed liner, folding step under the bumper and a Mopar fifth wheel hitch.
The available payload on this one is almost 5,000 pounds
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It is the blacked out midnight edition
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I'm not a big fan for the looks of the thing, at least not yet. I needed a HD truck and I bought it for that reason. The color is not my favorite, and the black wheels do nothing for me. But it can carry everything I have and want and the towing is ridiculous...something over 30,000 lbs.
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It also has that cool panoramic camera view for handling big trailers and fifth wheels. Finally there is some sort of trailer backing technology built in too. Cameras are everywhere.
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The interior is not high-end. I have cloth seats, but they are heated. The big screen and stereo were options.
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The HO engine looks the same as the standard. I am sure it is only a tuning difference. The AISIS transmission is way mo-better-er than the transmission I had in Ram-1.
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I swapped in my Pedal-Commander, my Bullit phone mounts and all my Armee patches from the older Ram.
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Dang, I have sticker shock!! Sure (hope) you didn't pay that. Did you trade the other in or selling it?
Just 16lbs, thats a meal!
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Buy once, cry…wait, make that buy twice,cry twice…..
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I think someone upstairs took care of me. The unit was discounted a ton. Way down to the mid-70s. The dealership that sold it gave me a super trade-in which I was not expecting.
Of course I lost money, but not nearly what I was anticipating. I actually think I wasn't hurt all that badly.
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That’s good news.
When I typed sold it in the other thread it was I thought a joke.
But I see now…
I liked the blue better but this is ok…once new wheels and a few more bits of the Don’s oil change occur.
It will serve you well in any case and glad you caught the error before that broken frame pic Dave posted type event occurred, or worse as you’d stated some sort of accident where you were found negligent.
Nice rig tho boss!
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Curious how much of the Carli suspension stuff from the other rig would cross over?
The shocks all the same, the front end linkage could be different but I doubt it. Don’t recall if the back had a block on it.
Tire change will be interesting, 6.5” wheel width is the standard and there are about zero tire options in a 33”+ that is less then a 12” wide tire. Bfg does offer a 34” tall tire that’s 10 wide. I’ll be ordering those when the ones I put on are toast
https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2-34X10.50R17.htm
But you might be on a 18” wheel maybe
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Kinda what I did when I got my Dmax. 6.0 gas didn't cut it, got a killer trade in. I got what I wanted, but still shelled out 12K.
I'll take black over red, but grey is the ticket!
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Well, congratulations on the new purchase . I didn't see this coming
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Wow.
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That’s good news.
When I typed sold it in the other thread it was I thought a joke.
But I see now…
I liked the blue better but this is ok…once new wheels and a few more bits of the Don’s oil change occur.
It will serve you well in any case and glad you caught the error before that broken frame pic Dave posted type event occurred, or worse as you’d stated some sort of accident where you were found negligent.
Nice rig tho boss!
Thanks. It's growing on me
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Curious how much of the Carli suspension stuff from the other rig would cross over?
The shocks all the same, the front end linkage could be different but I doubt it. Don’t recall if the back had a block on it.
Tire change will be interesting, 6.5” wheel width is the standard and there are about zero tire options in a 33”+ that is less then a 12” wide tire. Bfg does offer a 34” tall tire that’s 10 wide. I’ll be ordering those when the ones I put on are toast
https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2-34X10.50R17.htm
But you might be on a 18” wheel maybe
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Dave I have forged aluminum 17 X 6" wheels
I do not like the roller skate look
It is what it is, and no rear block (yet)
It looks like that same Carli stuff I purchased will all fit, so after Wyoming this summer, Tate will be getting another call.
I pulled the airbags off the other Ram I had and it does not look like they will fit.
The rear spring pack is like nothing I have ever seen
Three sets of leaves. The overload at the top is like 3" from contacting. The primary pack has really thick leaves. Then there's a super thick leaf on the bottom that does not touch the main pack but is like 2" from contacting. I am going to do something about all that, but first, this Thursday I go to pick up the camper. It will be coming home in an otherwise stock Ram.
Oh and since I now own an 8' bed, I purchased a larger camper that weighs around 3,700 full of water.
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I don’t follow what you mean by roller skate look?
From history you usually go with a 18” wheel or I believe you had 16” on your gm truck
I’m not suggestion you mount up a set of 22” wheels.
But facts is facts and picture is proof large wide tires on the stock wheels of 6” wide rim will provide poor tread pattern
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240313/2461bbe61cfc5dd1f091f8805096e32c.jpg)
This is my contact path with 65 psi ( recommended is 75psi) on a 305/75/17 tire
Of course it will do and I’ll suffer my consequences for my choices, there simply are not a lot of aftermarket wide wheel options that are in the smaller diameter -18” wheel
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I never run recommended. Air it down until you have full tread contact (mostly) I only air up when I need the load. Now this is just me, has worked OK for 50 years.
I run 50/45 in the dmax normal. I used to run 26 in my 77 GMC.
Can't wait for the fluid change!
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I never run recommended. Air it down until you have full tread contact (mostly) I only air up when I need the load. Now this is just me, has worked OK for 50 years.
I run 50/45 in the dmax normal. I used to run 26 in my 77 GMC.
Can't wait for the fluid change!
If I lowered mine down that low for daily my inner and outer tire will contact, 2” spacer gave me a net of maybe 1” of space in between 10” wide tire is the ticket
I’ll run these next time [mention]JR [/mention]
https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2-34X10.50R17.htm
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These are what I got for the Tahoe. Inch narrower, just a hair shorter and 10lb lighter.
https://www.prioritytire.com/prinx-hicountry-r-t-hr1-lt-285-70r17-121-118q-e-10-ply-rt-rugged-terrain-tire
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It will be interesting to follow the wear on them, considering those are less then half the cost, if you got half the life out of them it would equal out
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Dave, do your research on the miles you’ll get from those tires. I used to only buy bfg, they sponsored the race teams and it seemed like a good idea and I used to get the miles out of them on the 1 ton trucks. At some point around 2012 they changed compounds and quality. Several sets out of round and got half the mileage. I ditched them permanently as a tire supplier.
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I never run recommended. Air it down until you have full tread contact (mostly) I only air up when I need the load. Now this is just me, has worked OK for 50 years.
I run 50/45 in the dmax normal. I used to run 26 in my 77 GMC.
Can't wait for the fluid change!
Air pressure as delivered is 90 psi in the fronts and 72 psi in the rear tires.
I will air down after I get home. Leaving in the morrow to pick up that big/new truck camper.
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I don’t follow what you mean by roller skate look?
From history you usually go with a 18” wheel or I believe you had 16” on your gm truck
I’m not suggestion you mount up a set of 22” wheels.
But facts is facts and picture is proof large wide tires on the stock wheels of 6” wide rim will provide poor tread pattern
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240313/2461bbe61cfc5dd1f091f8805096e32c.jpg)
This is my contact path with 65 psi ( recommended is 75psi) on a 305/75/17 tire
Of course it will do and I’ll suffer my consequences for my choices, there simply are not a lot of aftermarket wide wheel options that are in the smaller diameter -18” wheel
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Dave, I am not into the big tire on the dually look. In fact I very much dislike it.
I AM NOT going to wide tires as they serve no purpose on this truck. With my single rear-wheel Ram 3500, I wanted the typical larger footprint for limited off roading. Now that I have gone to a full-sized dually, I am tossing any notion of anything other than a two-track. This one will stay on dirt roads and cross mud puddles, nothing more. So All I'll do eventually is to toss on that Carli suspension I had before which is a level + 1" rear spacer and use either the stock size or one size larger tire, probably on stock rims.
Roller-skate look: It looks like a skateboard to me. Long and wide and low.
I didn't like the look at the stealership, but I confess, it is warming up on me.
Who knows, I may get to actually liking this truck!
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I don’t follow what you mean by roller skate look?
From history you usually go with a 18” wheel or I believe you had 16” on your gm truck
I’m not suggestion you mount up a set of 22” wheels.
But facts is facts and picture is proof large wide tires on the stock wheels of 6” wide rim will provide poor tread pattern
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240313/2461bbe61cfc5dd1f091f8805096e32c.jpg)
This is my contact path with 65 psi ( recommended is 75psi) on a 305/75/17 tire
Of course it will do and I’ll suffer my consequences for my choices, there simply are not a lot of aftermarket wide wheel options that are in the smaller diameter -18” wheel
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Dave, I am not into the big tire on the dually look. In fact I very much dislike it.
I AM NOT going to wide tires as they serve no purpose on this truck. With my single rear-wheel Ram 3500, I wanted the typical larger footprint for limited off roading. Now that I have gone to a full-sized dually, I am tossing any notion of anything other than a two-track. This one will stay on dirt roads and cross mud puddles, nothing more. So All I'll do eventually is to toss on that Carli suspension I had before which is a level + 1" rear spacer and use either the stock size or one size larger tire, probably on stock rims.
Roller-skate look: It looks like a skateboard to me. Long and wide and low.
I didn't like the look at the stealership, but I confess, it is warming up on me.
Who knows, I may get to actually liking this truck!
That makes sense, I would like to drop tire size as well. It handles really well but I imp pretty sure it’s to much height lost for the fifthwheel.
285 tire I think gives enough rubber for ride quality and looks good as well.
Only complaint I have in the DRW is getting into drive through windows. I now just walk into the bank
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Dually will greatly improve your driving skills….or you’ll be at the body shop.. I got really really good and tight spaces and backing into parking spots.
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I don’t follow what you mean by roller skate look?
From history you usually go with a 18” wheel or I believe you had 16” on your gm truck
I’m not suggestion you mount up a set of 22” wheels.
But facts is facts and picture is proof large wide tires on the stock wheels of 6” wide rim will provide poor tread pattern
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240313/2461bbe61cfc5dd1f091f8805096e32c.jpg)
This is my contact path with 65 psi ( recommended is 75psi) on a 305/75/17 tire
Of course it will do and I’ll suffer my consequences for my choices, there simply are not a lot of aftermarket wide wheel options that are in the smaller diameter -18” wheel
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dave, I am not into the big tire on the dually look. In fact I very much dislike it.
I AM NOT going to wide tires as they serve no purpose on this truck. With my single rear-wheel Ram 3500, I wanted the typical larger footprint for limited off roading. Now that I have gone to a full-sized dually, I am tossing any notion of anything other than a two-track. This one will stay on dirt roads and cross mud puddles, nothing more. So All I'll do eventually is to toss on that Carli suspension I had before which is a level + 1" rear spacer and use either the stock size or one size larger tire, probably on stock rims.
Roller-skate look: It looks like a skateboard to me. Long and wide and low.
I didn't like the look at the stealership, but I confess, it is warming up on me.
Who knows, I may get to actually liking this truck!
That makes sense, I would like to drop tire size as well. It handles really well but I imp pretty sure it’s to much height lost for the fifthwheel.
285 tire I think gives enough rubber for ride quality and looks good as well.
Only complaint I have in the DRW is getting into drive through windows. I now just walk into the bank
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I'm smiling...
Today, I needed cash for a haircut, so I went to the ATM.
Arriving there I started doing some mental math and in the end, I opened my door walked over to the machine, and got my cash. Nope, a Dually does not like tight spaces.
I am digging the secure/planted feeling I am getting while driving.
Tomorrow and Friday will be a good test of hauling 3,600 lbs in the bed on a totally stock setup.
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The stock tire on my truck is a 235/80R17E on/off-road tires. Mine has the Nexen which looks pretty capable out of the box. Thinking I could handle wet grass with no problem. ;-)
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That tires size seems right I think mine were maybe a 255. I had real fun in the snow trying to hook up to the cargo trailer. Moving an inch back to catch the ball was a real treat. Even in 4x4 the truck would slide sideways instead of back in the pizza tires. I put new rubber on after and had zero issues
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I bet 285/75R17s will fit without a lift. ;-)
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I bet 285/75R17s will fit without a lift. ;-)
Sean, I don't think so. The wheel is only 6" wide. I believe that tire would be happier on an 8" rim width
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Today I started to address the stock rear spring pack.
It has four main leaves, three that are military wrapped and a fourth which is almost touching in the front and is touching in the rear. Load the thing at all, and you really have four springs. Beneath that is a super thick spring that looks more like an old-school traction bar which is touching and wrapped with the spring in the rear and sits 3" below the spring in the front...Classic anti-wrap bar.
Above all that is a two-leaf overload spring pack that is several inches from touching anything when the vehicle is unladen and barely touches the stock pads with the camper sitting in the bed.
That is what I am going to address today. I want that spring pack to engage much sooner so I plan to extend the factory bump stops a bunch. Actually I will replace them altogether with these:
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With the factory spring pack unmodified with the camper sitting in the bed the wheel arch is sitting at 39"
With the camper jacked up and detached the arch rises to 42 1/8"
The camper squats the factory springs 3 1/8".
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I plan to build the new setup around the unladen height, trying to keep everything near the higher number.
Next, I removed the factory wheel well liners. Those things are really in there as if Mopar did not intend for them to ever come out!
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And here you can see what i am talking about, the stock setup:
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These replacement "pucks" can be adjusted for three different heights. For the rear of the spring, I removed one block and for the front, left the whole three-part block intact.
You can see a dramatic difference here:
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I had to jack the truck up a little to open up the spring to allow me to insert the new blocks. Afterward, the truck sat a bit taller @ 42 1/2"
With the new blocks installed on all four corners the top spring engaged much earlier and the truck did not squat as far. Final height, Laden, was 39 3/4".
So we took 3/4" out of the 3 1/8" squat for a current squat of 2 3/8".
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So you gained just under an inch. But now you are on the overloads sooner.
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So you gained just under an inch. But now you are on the overloads sooner.
Correct. I mean to engage them sooner. The factory setup has you squatting 3" before you even engage the overloads. Now I am into them after an inch or so of travel. I now have them in their "good" working range. People who do this report a marked increase in stability.
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Sounds good.
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Is the inner fender liner really not 100% coverage?
What about the flip in and jobs you had installed on the other trucks that seemed to sit under the spring or inside the spring pack?
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Is the inner fender liner really not 100% coverage?
What about the flip in and jobs you had installed on the other trucks that seemed to sit under the spring or inside the spring pack?
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Those are called "Stable-Lift" and I purchased a set for the first single-wheel 3500. But they will not work on these heavier DRW springs with that crazy-looking traction bar thing.
I wondered the same thing about the wheel well liners. Seems like they are saving on plastic or something!
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Sway bar showed up today. If we have no rain it will go on tomorrow.
Still waiting on the new 7500 lb airbags (6" instead of 5,000 lb 5" bags)
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Here goes the airbag installation. I chose the Pac-Air bags in their larger-than-standard 7500 lb size. The 5,000 kit which I have always used uses a 5" air bag, whereas the 7500 system uses a 6" bag. I ran the Pac-Air bags on my Duramax for over 10 years with only a couple of failures caused by rubbing in that case.
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These bags are well made and hefty. I like the Pac-Air because the endcaps are solid 3/4" thick aluminum. Others use crimped on sheet metal plates
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After removing the factory bump stops, you next build up the bag assemblies. The installation is pretty simple and only takes a couple of hours
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With the vehicle raised slightly, the bag assemblies slip into place with minimal effort. The brackets are well-engineered and very sturdy in my opinion.
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I attached the airlines, which are 1/4" nylon and inflated the bags to 80 psi. They lifted that heavy truck and camper up easily. I will adjust the pressure until I reach the stock height.
Those little tires look positively lost in those cavernous wheel wells.
I really need to do something about that! (No I really do not need to do it...but I want to ;-)
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Yep, the tires look tiny in there.
Clean install though.
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I know they do, and I'm not liking that much!
But first things first.
The suspension was the first big need, so I'll concentrate on that to where I have a good safe dual-use dually. One to drive around without a load, and one capable of driving around the back roads without falling on its side!
This brings up my next modification, a Rear sway bar.
I opted for a 1 5/16" Hellwig sway bar kit. The last time I did this I just created my own from a used F350 rear bar and added that to my Chevy. It worked very well on that 6" lift with a 37" tire truck. This truck, however, will never be lifted that far. I can see going with that Carli leveling kit I used on my 2022 Ram 35oo, but that's it. Also, with this being a dually, I do not see it with huge tires. I am unsure what the OD is for this Nexus 235R80/17, but it can't be very tall. I may look into something in the 33" range on a slightly wider wheel. I am also not keen on the two-wheel concept. It seems like the front wheels are different than the rear outboard wheels and they are very different from the dual inner wheels which are steel! I can see a change coming there, and my preference would be to switch up to an all-steel wheel setup a little bigger in diameter with a 33"-34" tall tire.
I have a pretty deep for a Cummins, 4.10 gear. These trucks come with a 3.55 to a 3.73 and that is just fine. The 4.10 feels over-geared to me so a slight reduction is in order. It has gobs + gobs of power so a slight cut will not affect me I am thinking. It may even help the mileage some. BTW, that is running in the mid-15 MPG range. That is 2-3 mpg worse than my single rear wheel 3500 with 3.73 gears.
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No assembly pics, but the kit relocates the brake lines and fits very well.
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I may be adding one of those finned rear diff covers to dissipate heat since this truck will spend its life pulling or hauling a bunch of weight for many hours at speed. The Hellwig bar has ample clearance.
The end links fasten to upper mounts which simply clamp/sandwich around the frame. Simple and clever design!
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So, there you have it, the rear sway bar installed and ready for service!
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I purchased a couple of energy suspension pads to replace the factory-installed scuff pads. The idea is to close up some of that clearance to the 4th spring leaf.
The top pic shows the spacing on the overload with 80 psi air in those airbags.
And, I have a problem. For some reason, both bags lost pressure overnight! I do not know why, but the fact that both did so is troubling. Why is it that seemingly, nothing you buy these days works very well? I consistently have to fix things that are new or that are supposed to "work well" to fix some problem???
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Don, i have the same truck as yours just a 2015. Its a 3500 dually. I usually just lurk reading all the info this site has. I have to jump in with a warning. We care about you and your families safety. Don’t over estimate those Nexen tires. They are total garbage and i am surprised there has not been a class action lawsuit yet. They are SO DANGEROUS.
My truck weighs 10,000-14,000 daily. I have had six of those Nexens either break belts, bulge sidewalls, or simply blowout. The fronts are not up to the task. Even at 80 psi cold they look like they need air.
When i got the truck i went directly to discount tire to trade them in on some better tires. Discount has always done this. This time they declined due to liability. They told me the tires were dangerous. So i ran them trying to not be wasteful. None made it to 19,000. Just look up the reviews in the forums to see how they are working out.
I know you plan to swap them so just monitor them. With a slide in camper those fronts are going to be hurting. And, a failure there could be catastrophic.
Edit: I just called Kyle, a guy I have known/trusted for years. He has heard about the Nexen tire thing, but he said he only knows of problems with the 8-ply tires and not the 10-ply ones like I have. He actually said he thought they were very reliable and has not seen problems at all with them.
Hmmm.
Anyway, I asked him to find me a tire package of a larger size to give me an option...
More to follow...
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Tires were in the mix anyway for an upgrade, right?
I think the rear end would love some synthetic oil too and sure the stock stuff has all the break in it needs.
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Don, i have the same truck as yours just a 2015. Its a 3500 dually. I usually just lurk reading all the info this site has. I have to jump in with a warning. We care about you and your families safety. Don’t over estimate those Nexen tires. They are total garbage and i am surprised there has not been a class action lawsuit yet. They are SO DANGEROUS.
My truck weighs 10,000-14,000 daily. I have had six of those Nexens either break belts, bulge sidewalls, or simply blowout. The fronts are not up to the task. Even at 80 psi cold they look like they need air.
When i got the truck i went directly to discount tire to trade them in on some better tires. Discount has always done this. This time they declined due to liability. They told me the tires were dangerous. So i ran them trying to not be wasteful. None made it to 19,000. Just look up the reviews in the forums to see how they are working out.
I know you plan to swap them so just monitor them. With a slide in camper those fronts are going to be hurting. And, a failure there could be catastrophic.
Holy crap, I had no idea!
I have a trusted tire guy here. I'll call him right away. So any suggestions for a larger diameter tire that would fit my current wheels? Or do I have to jump in and do it all right away???
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Tires were in the mix anyway for an upgrade, right?
I think the rear end would love some synthetic oil too and sure the stock stuff has all the break in it needs.
Good idea JR. I'm already looking for that finned cover.
I will be using the camper/truck for a trip over to W VA in a little over a week. I am now concerned that those tires will be safe for that??? I wonder why Dodge put them on the truck to begin with???
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Cheap
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Cheap
That's what I was thinking, but guess what? According to my tire store, the Nexens are one of the pricier tires! Kyle said they are upscale tires over many of the routine tires we see. They are one of the more expensive of his offerings, and he does sell them occasionally. His tire shop is not affiliated with any tire manufacturer. Almost everyone shows up with their own tires, and he just installs them and maintains them.
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Well, either way they will not provide the traction you need or look right. Sounds like they have a safety issue too?
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Mine were the same as the ones on your truck. My truck is a copy of yours just in a 2015 model. A couple of my subs had the exact same issue as did my brother in law.
The designer of the tire was on Cummins Forum. He said Dodge paid $40 per tire and price was one of the most important aspects of the tire.
Just keep an eye on them. Mine would start thumping. Then when looking at them they would football the tread. Or, the sidewall would bulge out.
Every tire, i had seven, that touched the front axle eventually failed spectacularly. But, i am in Texas where it gets HOT. And, with posted speeds up to 80 MPH tires get stressed. That and my truck is heavier than stock due to tools, equipment, and additional on board fuel. But, my GVWR is 14,000 and i flirt with that at least half the time. The tires are supposed to accommodate a dually and be designed for this truck so it should not matter.
My tires were also made in 2015, the first few weeks of it. All were done by or before 19,000 miles and a year.
When you get new tires compare them to the Nexens both in weight and sidewall thickness. The sidewalls are pretty thin.
Not saying you will have them fail right away. Just be careful. I did not feel right not saying anything.
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I have tried to go with a larger tire but my issue was the 6” wheels. Guys run a wider tire but they pucker because the wheel is too narrow. You have to run enough air in them so they do not rub on the duals unless you run spacers. I’m not a fan of spacers. With enough air so that they don’t rub you end up only running 3-4” contact patches in the center of the tire.
I have looked at 18x8 wheels. Then went to 19.5 wheels and tires just to abandon that idea due to a harsh ride. Then full circle to giving up and going with the stock size in a better tire. The better all terrains better fill the wheel wells some. They usually have a more aggressive tread and the sidewalls have tread that rolls over some. I have ran Cooper ST Maxx tires. They were ok but would rotate on the wheels under heavy braking in the front. They also threw every weight i had on them. I ended up going with solid non biodegradable air soft pellets in the tires. .25g from Walmart. Maximum precision brand @$12.00 total. That was an amazing way to dynamically balance the tires and balance them as they rotated on the wheels. Now i have Nitto Exo Grapplers. These never move or throw weights but i have more pellets waiting to go in if needed.
When Ram was bidding the tires they had a maximum price point of $40 per tire. Before Nexen they used General. Nexen was one of three or four companies that bid the Ram tire contract and Nexen was the only company to be able to hit the price point.
The following is a DOT. And my opinion based on articles i read years ago and my own experiences. Manufacturers go to tire companies and have the company build a tire that hits their price point and quality target. Then they place a huge order built to spec. These tires will be a different quality than if you went into the store to get the same unit. The Firestone Transforce tires found on the 2500 trucks is a good example of this. My Transforce tires on my previous 14 were gone by 15,000 miles. This was also the case with a buddys truck. We got a good deal on some from Discount and ran them again. Same look same name. Way different mileage experiences. They wore like iron. We even had some on a trailer that rotted before the tread was gone.
The tires from the manufacturer need to be cheap, quiet, and offer good braking. They don’t care about a mileage target or long life. When you go to a tire shop these tires usually have a better warranty and mileage target often covered by a warranty. These tires are often built to a different standard even though they look the same. They have different rubber compounds etc. This could explain why Discount Tire refused to buy my new take offs even though they sold the same Nexen tire in the store. I literally drove four miles from the dealer to their store like i always did. But, this Nexen was one tire they could not purchase as a take off.
These trucks are in a power and payload war. The maximum payload is listed on the door along with GVWR and a sticker tallying options like steps and such can lower this payload number. If you can save a few pounds per tire times seven tires your payload goes up and pounds count all the while keeping the 14,000 GVWR intact.
Another example of this coming from the Chevy and Duramax arena is the AC Delco brand of parts. That brand has the same name and you can find three different levels of parts. Each looking the same mostly but with a different price point and expected service life.
I will end the rambling. Just knowing you need to be on the lookout for any vibration that could be a tire will keep you safer until you can decide which direction to go. Like i said previously, i am surprised there has not been a class action lawsuit yet. There are numerous threads discussing this on the different forums and such. And, Ram went cheap on tires where they are an easy fix. I prefer they spend the money on things that are harder to fix like the Aisin and Cummins.
Other than tires I have had no other issues. Not a single one on anything. The Cummins and Aisin are simply great together. I HATED my 68rfe and its the reason i ditched the truck. It was on its third transmission by 14,800 miles. Yes, 14,800.
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Well, Jared, you make a convincing argument, and I am heeding your advice, sort of.
I have my tire guy looking into this. Right off he said I could go to a 255/80 in several brands to get a bit taller. I was thinking something like a BFG AT, but I need to do more homework.
My conditions are way different than yours. I think I will flirt with the max GWT for sure. I had a max payload of just under 5,000. The camper weighs 3,400 and then there's 45 gal of water, her and I and she is now filling that camper with a kitchen, dry goods, and a hundred other things. I'm sure she will add 200 lbs. all said and done. I want to add a bumper and winch and a toolbox, and I have already bolted on 100+ pounds of airbags and sway bar stuff.
But it is not as hot here and I do not drive 80. Temps will be 10f-20f cooler than the Texas and I drive 70-73ish.
I am wondering about this front tire issue. Can't say I have run into that before. But I have never owned a dually before with that strange wide stance.
I'll report what Kyle comes up with for a good tire choice, and I should stay with the stock skinny wheels as the aftermarket stuff is just too expensive. I may have to run a rear spacer, Dunno, but if that's what it takes to get a better/best tire, then I will consider it.
For now, I'll bust out and over to West (by God) Virginia on the tires I have with these suspension improvements and see how all that works. That will give me another 500 miles of highway and a bunch of back-country driving.
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As I have posted previously, you’re not gonna find a wider rim unless you increase the wheel diameter.
There are a few tire brands that make a 255/80/17 that give you a 33” tall tire and keep you in the 10” wide range. Load range D or E being your capacity requirements.
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As I have posted previously, you’re not gonna find a wider rim unless you increase the wheel diameter.
There are a few tire brands that make a 255/80/17 that give you a 33” tall tire and keep you in the 10” wide range. Load range D or E being your capacity requirements.
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Concur...
That's where Kyle is, checking out the 255R80 in E range 10 ply.
Probably where I'll land and I don't think I'll be opting for a wider wheel at the moment.
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I kicked around and found one good leak in an airbag fitting. It was a metric crap-ton of work to get that thing back out, repaired and back in. I cleaned the fitting then used old-school Teflon tape and fixed that leak. On the passenger side, I can't find a leak, but the bag lost pressure overnight so something is going on there...
Fixed, and 100 psi of air in the bags the suspension stood right up:
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While I had the springs all expanded, I popped out the factory scuff pad on the bottom leaf and installed a poly bump stop about 3/4" tall.
Letting the air out of the bags, I saw a slight improvement over the same pack without the spacer:
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Next I added that block from the spacer stack I did not install earlier back into the block on the overload spring. That helped some as well. I am now fully engaging most of the spring pack with the camper sitting there.
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All spacers now installed, enough with the experimentation..
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100 psi air and the modded spring pack:
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And, with the air, there is some suspension travel to play with. the spring opened back up with the air springs inflated.
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Did those pads in post #55 go in the stock hole our need hardware?
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Did those pads in post #55 go in the stock hole our need hardware?
Stock hole...5 min mod
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Got a link? I see many pads but they all seem to be bolt on or stock replacement. I have a couple gone already (250k)
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Sorry JR, I can't recall whom I ordered them from
I'm a bonehead!
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Don, save a few bucks and get the AAM rear finned cover that used to come stock on the RAM. Much cheaper and more factory looking than some of the big aftermarket finned covers. Gale Banks did a piece on big flat aftermarket covers and they don’t keep the oil slinging up on the carrier well.
https://www.drivetrainamerica.com/74030017-oe-dodge-ram-gm-aam-11-5-aluminum-finned-differential-cover-kit/?=74030017&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYS_JFHwVGHlzctVDmfmHn9YKF4d8fjnw_yopI9aLFO9P3sLppl0uExoCKOsQAvD_BwE
I ran this cover on mine. I even had a temp probe in both that and the factory cover where I welded in a bung. Shocker, it didnt lower the temp more than a couple of degrees but it looked good and made me feel better.
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Don, save a few bucks and get the AAM rear finned cover that used to come stock on the RAM. Much cheaper and more factory looking than some of the big aftermarket finned covers. Gale Banks did a piece on big flat aftermarket covers and they don’t keep the oil slinging up on the carrier well.
https://www.drivetrainamerica.com/74030017-oe-dodge-ram-gm-aam-11-5-aluminum-finned-differential-cover-kit/?=74030017&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYS_JFHwVGHlzctVDmfmHn9YKF4d8fjnw_yopI9aLFO9P3sLppl0uExoCKOsQAvD_BwE
I ran this cover on mine. I even had a temp probe in both that and the factory cover where I welded in a bung. Shocker, it didnt lower the temp more than a couple of degrees but it looked good and made me feel better.
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I remember reader all that business. You did your own investigation and found it was all but useless to install a different cover.
Banks video on the whole design of the cover with his clear copies was prettt slick.
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Don, save a few bucks and get the AAM rear finned cover that used to come stock on the RAM. Much cheaper and more factory looking than some of the big aftermarket finned covers. Gale Banks did a piece on big flat aftermarket covers and they don’t keep the oil slinging up on the carrier well.
https://www.drivetrainamerica.com/74030017-oe-dodge-ram-gm-aam-11-5-aluminum-finned-differential-cover-kit/?=74030017&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYS_JFHwVGHlzctVDmfmHn9YKF4d8fjnw_yopI9aLFO9P3sLppl0uExoCKOsQAvD_BwE
I ran this cover on mine. I even had a temp probe in both that and the factory cover where I welded in a bung. Shocker, it didnt lower the temp more than a couple of degrees but it looked good and made me feel better.
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Red-
Thanks for the tip/link ;-)
I ordered it
Funny, but that is the one I was thinking about, since it came stock on the AAM biggin'
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No real airflow back there, but I like mine too. The few degrees cooler could even be you add a little more fluid.
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No real airflow back there, but I like mine too. The few degrees cooler could even be you add a little more fluid.
I ordered the one Tex shared the link to. That and some good synthetic and if nothing else, I'll feel better ;-)
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Progress report: This morning I checked the PAC 7500 lb air bags. Both of them were at zero pressure! ZERO!
I am so tired of buying junk and wasting my good time bolting on things that do not work. I did everything according to the instructions, and right out of the gate on the first trial both bags leaked.
I found a leaky fitting on the drivers bag which caused me to remove the air line, then the air fitting. Now with everything bolted securely in place, it is super hard to get to that fitting. Bit I managed to get it out, then wrapped it with teflon tape, then reinstalled it. After spraying soap solution all over it I didn't get any bubbling like I had earlier. so i figured that was fine. Obviously it was not.
The right side showed no bubbling but I did find a kink in the line, so I cut out that section and spliced it back together. Checking with soap again showed no bubbling. Fast forward 3 days and both bags were flat.
I am contacting Pac Air and the seller and asking for my money back. I am not going with anything unreliable, and these bags certainly are.
I'll replace them with some Timbren rubber springs and call that all done.
I did notice some porpoising on dips and expansion joints. All I can figure is that I have preloaded and tightened up the rear suspension and that is now transferring more energy, wheelbarrow style to the front that the weak factory shocks cannot handle.
I was going to go with some Carli parts, so that is now the road I will be going down. Tate, expect a call...
Note: The Carli Suspension stuff that Tate sold me for the other Ram 3500 worked well and caused no problems.
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I have Firestone bags, zero issues
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My truck is sitting at the RV dealer serving as a truck camper dolly!
With the parts having been ordered to fix that, I think I need to go get the camper just to get the truck home so I can continue working on it.
I completed a research effort on those Nexens and I will be replacing them before leaving to go anywhere. I just purchased seven Toyo Open Country RT trail tires. I went up to 255/80R17. That will give me a slightly taller tire at 33.1" and will fit the stock wheels and wheel wells without modification. In my opinion, I do not like tall, big tire duallys and think something closer to stock looks best on those work-oriented trucks.
The Toyo is a great top-tier company and has the best reviews. An American-built tire will be reshoeing my dually.
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Well, all this is going to start happening pretty soon. I haven't actually been in possession of my truck for weeks, since the accident. I should have it back tomorrow.
I have the diff cover on the floor in my office.
I will need to figure out what in the heck is going on with those airbags.
The tires are beginning to come in, so they will be getting installed pretty quickly.
I ordered the recommended Carli suspension which levels the truck, 2.5" front and 1" rear.
And just a little while ago, I ordered my bumper. After everyone's recommendation and some more thinking about it, I purchased a sturdy unit that covers the entire front end similar to the one Shawn has on his tow pig:
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I spoke to the folks who built these (in Texas). They said they would handle deer with no problem. I asked about the mesh all over the middle, and they told me something I did not know.
For their customers who live in the Dakotas through the Eastern part of Montana, those states have big game birds such as pheasant. Those birds can and have taken out radiators, and that is the whole reason for the steel mesh being welded in there.
Would have never thunk of that!
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somebody on here recommended a good diff fluid, but I forgot
What should I shove back into that AAN rear axle when I slap on the cover?
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Mobil 1 full synthetic unless you’re fond of the color purple
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Think I recommended Lucas. Summit has it by the gallon.
You doing steps on this? I'm selling mine and staying with permanent steps. With all the much the side of the truck stays cleaner, but I need to step up a few more inches.
I sure know about cows and stock trucks!
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Think I recommended Lucas. Summit has it by the gallon.
You doing steps on this? I'm selling mine and staying with permanent steps. With all the much the side of the truck stays cleaner, but I need to step up a few more inches.
I sure know about cows and stock trucks!
I mentioned your incident to the bumper guy yesterday...
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The camper has been placed in a body shop bay where the repairs are now underway.
Poor thing has not been washed since I purchased it!
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Shortly after I picked it up, I picked up (Toyo Open Country RT Trail tires in 255/80R17. The cheapest price was at Walmart, so I loaded all seven of them up. They are scheduled to be installed on Thursday.
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I then ran over to AutoZone where I purchased five quarts of Valvoline synthetic 75W-140. I have used Valvoline gear oil a lot in the past and its synthetic has a friction modifier already mixed in. After that and after slipping into old jeans I went after swapping out the diff cover for that unit that came stock on the 3500's with the HD tow rating.
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I then pulled off the stock cover to reveal the stock diff. I was surprised to find it has a huge Limited Slip and not the G80 locker of old. My truck has the newest 12: AAM axle, probably because of the steadily increasing torque ratings of all these new trucks.
Everything looked to be in great condition, but it should. My truck is right at 1,000 miles total.
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And then I started to install the aluminum diff cover
But wait, the bolt holes did not line up.
And the gasket looked different
And the whole thing was smaller than the steel cover I just removed.
Ya, the thing did not fit. I got $300+ for the new cover and $105 for the fluid; all I got was a fresh fluid change for the axle. Now that may not be all that bad, since axles break in, and changing the fluid afterward is a good idea. So I'll take that much, but No one, including the people who sold it, said anything about this 12" AAM has a bigger cover.
Why did they do that? A Dana 60 cover fits a Dana 70. The earlier 11.5AAM is almost as big, so why not keep common parts?
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Here is a comparison between the self-destructing Nexen tires and the replacement Toyo's which maintain the same narrow profile but stand 2" taller.
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And, of course, the big guy is always close by holding down some concrete.
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Tate shipped me the Carli suspension, and it will be finding itself onto the truck in the very near future.
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That LS looks good in there. I liked the nittos on the Tahoe, but now they are $300+ each! Got the 4 prinx for $700 delivered.
I was using valvoline before, but found the Lucas a bit cheaper by the gallon when I got for the excavator and have stuck with it. Has a great rep.
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My best guess is that limited slip is in fact a torsen helical cut gear locker. I’m sure Tate will chime in but if it is then it’s a beast…..
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My best guess is that limited slip is in fact a torsen helical cut gear locker. I’m sure Tate will chime in but if it is then it’s a beast…..
Yea, as per our conversation last night, this is interesting.
Tate, you hearing this?
I see that for 3500 only, Ram is requiring you to add a friction modifier. When I looked at that huge diff, I thought the clutch packs must slide down in there somehow, but I have to agree with Shawn, it reminded me of a Torsen.
Someone??? Let's solve this mystery.
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That LS looks good in there. I liked the nittos on the Tahoe, but now they are $300+ each! Got the 4 prinx for $700 delivered.
I was using Valvoline before, but found the Lucas a bit cheaper by the gallon when I got for the excavator and have stuck with it. Has a great rep.
JR-I was using Simple Tire forever, but lately, as in my last couple of sets of tires, Walmart is coming in cheaper. These Toyos of mine which are tall/skinny and would be ideal for the Tahoe were $273 ea.
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AAM is known for a truetrac LS, bet thats it. But that would not require a friction modifier being all gears?
Yep, I have gone off brand the last couple times, so far so good.
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AAM is known for a truetrac LS, bet thats it. But that would not require a friction modifier being all gears?
Yep, I have gone off brand the last couple times, so far so good.
That's what is confusing me, why use a friction modifier in a gear type diff? More to come, I need to research my build tag and consult with the Mopar folks to determine what I have.
All indications are it is the new 12" AAM.
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Might just be a typo?
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OK, nothing heard from Tate on the diff question...
Off to get the tires installed...
Stuff just keeps showing up:
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New tires are installed.
We used the balance beads
and
Whew...$356 to swap the seven tires out with the beads!!!!!
Here's a before and after:
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And here's how we got there. I used the same shop I have been using for a couple of years now, Crittenden Tire and Lube. It is run by an ASE and seasoned mechanic, Kyle.
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The hubs on this new 3500 are enormous. This thing is built for hard work and longevity.
I count 12 axle retention bolts. I want to say my older 11.5" AAM had 10, am I correct? Someone check me out on that.
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We are going up in size from a 235/80R17 to a 255/80R17.
30.something to 33.1" OD
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They fit the front fender well, and I will be staying with the stock wheel (for once)
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The rear axle is all business and looks beefy without the tires obscuring the view.
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And the slightly larger tires do a good job of filling up those wheel wells.
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And there you are, ready to get started on the suspension mods
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Wheels look pretty good, I like the black. Wells are filled nicely too.
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Looks good chief!
They still look small by your normal oil change standards but do a good job.
Very nice fit though.
And the wheels do look sharp.
That cost was a large part of my tire machine purchase.
I think I’m nearing even on it now. Even done some legit repairs for a select few.
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Looks 100% better than stock
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^^^^^^^^^^OK, them's some gud comments. At least for the popular herd, I must be doin' something right for once ;-) ^^^^^^^^^^
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Today I got after the Carli suspension parts I just purchased from Tater. Most of the stuff was delivered, enough to get the front end almost completed.
The idea is to level it, the same as I did on the 2022 single wheel 3500
Carli lifts the front 2.5" and the rear 1" to level everything.
Here are some before and after shots
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I call it 40 7/16" before the Carli springs
and
I measured it at 43" even afterward.
Carli says their springs lift it 2.5", I actually measured a 2 7/16" lift.
Pretty close
I started by jacking the thing up and pulling off the wheels on the front.
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After removing the front cross bar, and disconnecting the shocks, the front can be lowered enough to pull the springs out.
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Panhard or front centering link or whatever it is called has to be setup and adjusted. It is a bit of a process, but I had done one earlier on the blue truck, so this one went together faster.
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Factory vs Carli springs:
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In went the springs and shocks along with the new Panhard and except for the axle side Panhard attachment it all went on fairly quickly.
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The front end is mostly done. I'll have to bolt on the front steering stabilizer if/when it comes in. But for now, I am front-end complete. On the backside tomorrow.
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Looks good :likebutton:
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Looks good
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Moving along!
Hope you get the nice ride you’re after first round this time.
Just caught the 12 bolts in the rear axles.
I think it was 8 in the 11.5, so that one has been beefed up considerably.
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Looking good, Big D!
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Moving along!
Hope you get the nice ride you’re after first round this time.
Just caught the 12 bolts in the rear axles.
I think it was 8 in the 11.5, so that one has been beefed up considerably.
It is apparently. I chatted with Tate this morning about it. He sent me some detailed information about that axle.
We can settle the argument about which kind of differential is in there. It is a two-piece differential with internal clutches preloaded by some Belville washers. Apparently, it is possible to rebuild it. There are 30, 32 and 33 spline axles depending on what truck you are driving. The dually gets the mutant strong stuff. That is why everything seems so darned oversized in the pics of my truck axle.
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Today I got after the rear suspension (again).
Before adding the Carli stuff, the rear is about level with the front.
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They sent me the rear shocks, lift blocks and U-Bolts.
The shocks have a lot of gas pressure. I'm talking getting a jack to compress them!
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As is usual, the dog chose a spot that was in the way of everything...
I throw boxes and trash on him thinking it will startle him, but he never moves...
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Very quickly, I noticed the warehouse guys sent me the wrong U-bolts, so I had to go out and have some made up for me. Having to take a couple of hours to chase down the U-bolts effectively killed any chance I had of finishing the install today...
In the box, you can see the Carli-supplied U-bolt, and the one I just took off my truck. They are the same length!
So is life, no big deal.
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After the U-bolt thing, I was able to proceed, and managed to get the first, then the second Lift block installed with the new hardware.
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I had to attend a fire department board meeting, so I did not finish.
Chatting with the guys at the truck shop, they told me that my airbag leak issue is being caused by leaking swivel fittings. They do not use them but have some better stationary solid brass fittings. They just gave me two of them for no charge. How cool is that?
So here is the resting condition as of COB, today. I'll get on the bags tomorrow and hopefully, have it ready for the alignment shop.
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Getting there. Dodge has always had solid running gear. Some of the earlier auto trans were not up to snuff and not a huge fan of the AAM front axle.
Stock wheels look good too.
Doing steps on it too? I sold my powersteps as I prefer the side protection of the stationary.
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Getting there. Dodge has always had solid running gear. Some of the earlier auto trans were not up to snuff and not a huge fan of the AAM front axle.
Stock wheels look good too.
Doing steps on it too? I sold my powersteps as I prefer the side protection of the stationary.
On the steps, dunno.
It came with the cheapo side steps and actually, they do work.
My oldest son says I need to lose them.
I would prefer AMP Research steps for this one, but again, dunno...
Opinions?
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So here's a question: I like the lug nuts showing look, that and the rear hub showing. It is either that of slide on the cheapl plastic hub caps.
Question, Leave em off, of go all girly and install them back like factory?
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So here's a question: I like the lug nuts showing look, that and the rear hub showing. It is either that of slide on the cheapl plastic hub caps.
Question, Leave em off, of go all girly and install them back like factory?
I don’t mind it either.
My .02..
I’m not sure how much luck and crap will get on them.
What I’ve found with my Chebby ones, they are clean.
In my trailers, without the plastic caps, the mud and goo really plugs up the threads.
So much so that I’ve had to shorten some wheel studs.
My vote would be based on your operating conditions.
Not to goooey, then lose ‘em.
Gooey, probably keep ‘em.
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So here's a question: I like the lug nuts showing look, that and the rear hub showing. It is either that of slide on the cheapl plastic hub caps.
Question, Leave em off, of go all girly and install them back like factory?
I don’t mind it either.
My .02..
I’m not sure how much luck and crap will get on them.
What I’ve found with my Chebby ones, they are clean.
In my trailers, without the plastic caps, the mud and goo really plugs up the threads.
So much so that I’ve had to shorten some wheel studs.
My vote would be based on your operating conditions.
Not to goooey, then lose ‘em.
Gooey, probably keep ‘em.
Good thoughts...
My concept of the operation is that I want to be able to visibly see if any lug nuts are loosening up with all this road warrior stuff coming right up...
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I finished up the rear suspension and repaired the leaky airbag fittings (I think...)
I pulled the air bags off and tossed the factory supplied cheapo swivel fittings in favor of the brass ones the local truck repair shop gave me yesterday
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Here's a before and after showing the additional height with zero air pressure.
Before looks like 43 1/4"
After is 44 3/4"
Some of that is just the fact that the suspension has not settled from being unloaded on jack stands for two days. but I easily picked up an inch +.
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I did not get any pics, but I added a 1" spacer beneath the airbags. I then used bolts that were over 1" too long. After threading them through the spacer and mounting them into the bottom of the bags, they protrude downward. The idea here is to allow the suspension more flex if I ever extend it in more severe terrain. The Carli shocks will allow for more droop so these bag extensions will accommodate that should it ever happen.
Here are the finished Carli install shots:
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I then added 20 psi to the bags to test for leaks overnight.
That raised the rear end a bit more.
Obviously, the back end will settle down with 4,000 lbs. in the bed, but I can say, I am pleased with the results.
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Well, the fix price was right.