REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
GENERAL TOPICS => Coffee Induced Early Morning Rant => Topic started by: stlaser on January 22, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
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https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/breaking-large-fed-presence-ivo-malheur/
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https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/breaking-large-fed-presence-ivo-malheur/
Showdown coming up?
I can't help but think the feds, whichever fool may be in charge is trying to escalate this to a shooting event.
Little do they know, that if they do tens of thousands of militia folks will go active. I wouldn't want to be a FBI or state police guy up there if there is a Waco type response by government officials.
The Hammons have been delt with harshly and illegally. All these folks occupying this abandoned fed building are trying to do is raise awareness of this injustice. They are willing to risk their personal safety and freedom to get the situation righted.
If I were in command the first thing I would do is to order my "Forces" to stand down and go home. A few old guys in an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere pose zero threat to anyone.
However by escalating, what the federal government is saying is that you "The People" will shut up and do as you're told. We'll do any darned thing we want and if you question you, we'll crush you and salt the ground where you stood.
If the government assaults that building, people will get killed and the retribution that follows will, well, could light off a revolution. It wouldn't be all at once, but just like the Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan you'd start to see escalating attacks, sniping's, bombs and it would get worse and worse, and likely spiral out of control.
I'd pack my bags and go home and get ready for the super bowl game if I were the feds.
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I think you're on to something here. It's been relatively quiet but we're getting close to super bowl weekend. Some one must want this over so they can be home to watch the big game......
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I think you're on to something here. It's been relatively quiet but we're getting close to super bowl weekend. Some one must want this over so they can be home to watch the big game......
That would constitute the biggest mistake of the century.
That would clearly not signal a strong armed law enforcement move as I'm sure the leaders wish it would be, however, and this analogy is so scarily true...I think a strong armed raid on a few old guys in an abandoned building would be likened to the innocent report from a blank gun used to start a race. The sound is loud, but only for a second, then fades...But then the race begins....
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The Farm bureau statement:
Statement by Oregon Farm Bureau President Barry Bushue on sentencing of Steve and Dwight Hammond to five years in federal prison
October 7, 2015
BURN
SALEM, OREGON, October 7, 2015 – “Today two Oregon ranchers were sentenced to five years in federal prison under terrorism statutes for setting preventative fires on their own land. We are gravely disappointed at this outcome.
Elderly Harney County rancher Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, a former OFB Board member and Harney County Farm Bureau president, have already served time in federal prison for their mistakes and paid their debt to society for the less-than-140 acres of BLM land that was accidentally impacted by the fires.
This is an example of gross government overreach, and the public should be outraged.
Today’s verdict is also hypocritical given BLM’s own harm to public and private grazing lands, which goes without consequence. It is unjust. OFB worked on this case quietly behind the scenes with BLM through the spring and summer. That diligent diplomatic effort was fruitless.
This prosecution will have a chilling effect across the West among ranchers, foresters, and others who rely on federal allotments and permits. It will harm the positive relationship many ranchers and organizations have worked to forge with the BLM, and undermine the cooperative spirit most ranchers have brought to the bureau in helping the health of the range.
Please join Farm Bureau and declare your support for Steve and Dwight Hammond. Join over 2,600 other citizens from across the country and show BLM that this extreme abuse of power will not go unnoticed and is shameful. Sign the petition at www.savethehammonds.com. This must never happen again.
OFB will continue to work to bring public and policymaker attention to this case.”
BLM, Government overreach, SaveTheHammonds
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Don, I was being sarcastic about the football party.
I also think that petition should be a post of its own on the forum here.....
However, we have a lot of unqualified people in positions of authority in today's society. The reality is many are "pissed" over the treatment of the Hammonds. I hope & pray for a peaceful solution to what is essentially a protest over their double jeopardy sentence. I believe in the event of a violent push to end this aka Waco style or Ruby Ridge will create a decoupling of the American people & the government. I'm not saying it will be all out shooting war at least not at first but I think you will see a public that has been pushed too far at that point. A resistance will rise at that point, normal every day joes will go out of their way to be disruptive which will then ever increase in a tit for tat. Again, I hope cool heads prevail as this is not a good direction for anyone.
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I hope the feds don't push this past just being a show of force.
One thing we were always taught is time is on our side, there is no hurry if no one is being threatened. Getting 5 years for an "accidental" back fire is ridiculous, but as said above. "You will do what we say"
Take this a step farther with whoever is elected will get to choose 2-3 Justices. That could push the country over the teetering edge we are on.
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8 arrested in burns, several shot, one deceased. Ammon Bundy in custody...
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Getting some information
Shots fired, possibly by the militia exchanging gunfire with the FBI. Roads around Burns are locked down. Hospital where casualties are is also locked down...
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Correct, looks like the Feds tried to arrest them during a traffic stop. Shots were fired & 4 were arrested including both Bundy brothers. They are not releasing who was killed.....
Edit: 6 arrested
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LaVoy Finicum shot dead reportedly unarmed.
http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-dead-dies-rip-funeral-youtube-school-family-ammon-bundy-arrested-malheur-standoff-wife-jeanette/
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupation-leader-ammon-bundy-arrested-law-enforcement-sources-n504911
I guess we are about to find out
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Sad turn of events........God Bless his family and those injured.
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This appears to make the the case that LaVoy had a death wish......
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/militant_shot_and_killed_while.html#incart_maj-story-1
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I get really torn about cases like this. I totally get the frustration folks feel with government overreach. But I also can understand the cops side and if someone charges you (especially from a known tense standoff situation where guns are part of the mix) they are likely to act first out of self defense, and should too. Just sad all the way around in my mind.
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Charge a cop after evading, you're gonna get shot. Period.
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Sheriff was on the news just a bit ago and visibly upset over it.
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There was no reason for most of this.
Lock it down, sit it out. Time is on your side.
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Asking media to leave..... No Bueno.
http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-fbi-warns-media-to-leave-oregon-militia-standoff-area-heres-why/
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This is a tough one for everyone.
But the bottom line is, if the LEO's are acting within the confines of the law, I'd side with them. I'm sure the killing was not vindictive on the Officers part, but there is a lot of tension there. And a lot of rumor and mystique over Militia being there. If I was deployed there as say, a national guard adviser, and someone charged me given the situation up there, I'd shoot to defend myself as well.
The bad part for LEO's is that they are clearly stuck in the middle. The BLM and the crooked justice (Court) system are the bad guys here whom the folks occupying the refuge building are protesting against. The FBI, State troopers and Deputies are just doing their job. I doubt any of them save for perhaps one or two Rambo types, really wants to assault fellow citizens protesting against a very unfair situation. But those officers have a job, a badge, and an oath. They need to do their job. The people occupying the wildlife refuge should have engaged the BLM and courts through the legal process.
But now that it's done, the place is an armed fortress. I'd just leave it alone. So what if they live out their lives there. As long as they don't threaten anyone, is it really worth getting our police officers shot? I say no. Back off, leave it alone. Build a 15 foot anchor fence around it, put a gate on it and check the lock once every 5 years.
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Alternative narrative is now circulating........
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/the-ambush-and-murder-of-robert-lavoy-finicum/152201
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Well, that is certainly different than what I read this morning!
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I read the girls report that mirrored this article this morning. Also just read this on ZH...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-27/ammon-bundy-admits-defeat-calls-remaining-oregon-occupiers-stand-down-go-home
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That last line says a lot Don. They said they were armed to defend themselves and made no threats.
With all that going on where were the "cameras" even one of the LEOs, in a car or somewhere.
I don't know. Shooting an unarmed person who is charging you? Were any weapons seen at the stop? Remember, "hands up-don't shoot"?
Plus, no bail for what really amounts to a trespassing? Witnesses are in custody?
To much not answered, to many red flags,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Where's the vehicles, where's the body & independent autopsy......
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More....
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/thatll-teach-them/
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/post_3.html#incart_story_package
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In today's age. There has to be video footage somewhere
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http://stopshouting.blogspot.com/2016/01/an-open-letter-to-special-agent-greg.html?m=1#more
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In today's age. There has to be video footage somewhere
Yes, maybe our government would be so kind as to give us the drone footage of the event as it unfolded...... ::)
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That last line says a lot Don. They said they were armed to defend themselves and made no threats.
With all that going on where were the "cameras" even one of the LEOs, in a car or somewhere.
I don't know. Shooting an unarmed person who is charging you? Were any weapons seen at the stop? Remember, "hands up-don't shoot"?
Plus, no bail for what really amounts to a trespassing? Witnesses are in custody?
To much not answered, to many red flags,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yea, it stinks JR
I will always side with the law, always
I am assuming the officers were acting lawfully
If they were not, then badge or not, they were no longer officers of the law.
I don't know, wasn't there. I do know that when it comes to a fight, and testosterone, someone's gonna get shot and someone will find a reason later.
Everything happens for a reason. I just hope the word Martyr doesn't need to start showing up when talking about this man...That will mean things are slipping out of control.
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Funny, as I was reading these posts... my mind was thinking "failed attempted martyrdom"... and then you basically alluded to the same thing.
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When I worked I never 2nd guessed another LEO. I wasn't there so can't say I tell them.
Has to be video in this age. Also, with all the LEO on the scene someone will tell the truth. Plus where it happened was a setup by many accounts.
But, Martyr or not if he was walking towards them with hands in the open and no weapons seen there was no reason for what happen.
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More sunshine & Lolly pops in Oregon....
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/fusa-vignette/
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Hate to say it but pay heed to my signature,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Now I didn't like that one little bit...
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Ok, so you asked & now will receive. Click the linky & open up the post titled "mourning" then read the part about "martyr". So how deep is the rabbit hole gunna get?
http://christianmerc.blogspot.com/2016/01/mourning.html?m=1
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FBI video footage is up
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/fbi-video-footage/
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Soooo he gets out of the truck after evading, has his hands up, then looks like he starts reaching into his jacket or something...
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Or maybe he was shot & clutching the wound? Sound would definitely help..... You see him spin around about the same time.
Also when he veers off the road it looks as if he hit or almost hit a trooper with the truck.
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Or maybe he was shot & clutching the wound? Sound would definitely help..... You see him spin around about the same time.
Yeah that is a really good point
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He certainly didn't do anything to help his cause by fleeing and trying to run through the road block
Someone has audio but since he veered off the road, it's not likely that we get better footage unless someone had a body cam
Their radio com traffic at the time of the shooting would be revealing.
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He certainly didn't do anything to help his cause by fleeing and trying to run through the road block
Someone has audio but since he veered off the road, it's not likely that we get better footage unless someone had a body cam
Their radio com traffic at the time of the shooting would be revealing.
When they first get pulled over they have their arms & heads out the window. According to the girls testimony they wanted to talk to the sheriff in the next county over who guaranteed them safe passage to walk away. Looks from video as there may have been couple shots before they started fleeing.
Driving high rate of speed with road block setup on blind curve. Driver ditches it to avoid hitting vehicles in road block. Driver sees armed officers & exits vehicles with hands up. I think maybe to draw armed men away from women in truck. Note he didn't exit with gun drawn & shooting. Last time I checked hands up meant surrender but it's hard to tell what happened after he exited truck.
Also worth noting, video was released two days after shooting. Plenty of time to be professionally edited. I do not trust anything that comes from these people. May I remind you of fast and furious or Benghazi just to name a couple......
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My thoughts of this so far is that Mr. Lavoy seemed like (clutching at a wound or not might have been drawing a weapon.
The caveat to all this is:
Is this the real film????? Or do we have a Kenyan with a dead man's social security number elected president coverup?
Overlying problem is that we the people no longer really trust our government. Just look at the testimony of the wife of the adjacent farmer who was threatened and brutalized for no real good reason.
On many occasions we had Taliban on their knees in a circle while we awaited the Army to collect them. We could have kicked in a few teeth or beat one half to death just to relieve tensions, but we never did. Once they became non combatants they were just 150 pound bags with legs. I may have wanted to just shoot one out of anger, but I/we never did. Although having emotions, we kept them in check and ultimately respected our enemy.
Is the ATF, and BLM agents doing the same? Or do they feel empowered to kick a little butt here and there just for sport?
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He was on the brakes Hard....definately wasn't trying to run the roadblock.
I'm trying to figure out why they lit that truck up the way they did.
Got it....Those feds must be distant cousins of the ones who took down Bonnie and Clyde.
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If the 18 year old girl is correct in her account they had snipers in the trees. Stated when she got out of vehicle she saw them & they had roughly 20 red lasers on each person. Now, she is 18 & extremely excited / traumatized at this point so is she exaggerating? Yeah, most likely but making stuff up about men in trees doubtful. This would point to an ambush. Add in her prior account that when they were initially pulled over & driver had head & arms out window someone took a pot shot at driver & missed. That's when they then sped off. To me this sounds like it played out how they wanted it except that a few witnesses survived after the hail of bullets into the truck. So at some point some one called off the shooting. She also stated no one on buddy's side ever pulled a weapon.
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I really hope you're wrong about your theory
If you are right, people will feel all those involved will have to go down
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Ammon Bundy's latest response via his lawyers website.
http://arnoldlawfirm.com/ammon-bundy/
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The video is hard to watch knowing the end. Why was the drone circling? Now a heli would keep circling, it was not a winged drone for sure.
That is a classic high risk stop. 2-3 vehicles stagered, doors open for cover. I saw someone cuffed at the first stop. Didn't see him exit the vehicle but saw them walking him around SOP. I saw hands out the windows but it seemed to drag out confirming they were probably trying to negotiate something as stated. Most HR stops are over fast.
Then I saw them drive off, looked more to get away as they stayed on their side of the road even though they were moving good. I had seen the road block in the video earlier.
When he got there it was on a sweeping turn on he braked to avoid and did hit someone. Heat of the moment he has just tried to kill a cop. But he jumps out hands in the air I would bet to confirm not being ordered to do so. He does not run, hands up and his arms go down and it looks like he may have something in his hand, can't say for sure. In the LEO's head (they are armed, will defend themselves if need be, just fled a high risk stop, hit an LEO at the road block)
I see just 2 LEO's close in, but if one of them shoot, the others will unload possibly. I also see the victim and some taken out of the truck were painted with a large footprint meaning lots of lasers from many directions.
I don't see them rittle the truck with bullets, but notice the front passenger window shot out. The LEOs do not look like they are shooting, but staying behind cover. When they clear the truck, I do notice smoke coming from what looks like the engine area. Was that from gunfire to disable or just being in snow from the wreck?
Things I noticed. Almost no vehicles were marked, strange. Sure a red light is all that is needed but looks like some wearing jeans the locals were on hand.
Why was there someone up in the trees if it was a roadblock, or did he head up there as they were told of the approach? Then more appear later,,,,,,,,,,
No warning signs up for the check point if that is what is was, but see them in the trucks?
True, is this the real video. In 2 days you can do anything, could have even used the same vehicles.
From an LEO stance it looks text book but there will always be questions and even more now.
Now if someone really did sqeeze off a shot or more at the first stop, this opens up new issues as you are allowed to defend yourself. They didn't shot back but ran.
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JR, I saw snow jumping from the passenger side as they shot, so I would say "riddled" might not be an exaggeration....might not.
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http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016/01/tyranny-defiance-and-death-of-lavoy.html?m=1
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This isn't good at all.
Will stir the hornet nest all over the place. I'd expect reprisals and a mess to follow.
Why can't cooler heads prevail?
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JR, I saw snow jumping from the passenger side as they shot, so I would say "riddled" might not be an exaggeration....might not.
I will look a little closer as I heard that too, but didn't really see it when I watch the vid.
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You know what is funny. If these were treehuggers doing the same thing it would all over the news.
These guys were just trying to get a point out, were armed but made no threats except self defense.
I still see this as a trespass issue but these guys were against the all mighty federal gov and that could not be tolerated,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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At the end of the day a good freedom loving God fearing Christian rancher & foster Dad was murdered. The take down of these citizens was done in poor fashion, period. The fbi & the osp had many tools at their disposal yet this was the best they could come up with? I don't buy it, shame on them. For all involved may God have mercy on your soul.
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http://video.foxnews.com/v/4727157766001/fbi-releases-video-of-fatal-shooting-of-oregon-occupier/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips
Not sure who's narrating this video, i think it's somebody from the FBI, but whoever it is said there was a loaded 9mm in his left jacket pocket
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They all had weapons, we need to know whether they pulled them. & regardless I am blaming the fbi & osp for this guys murder as this was a piss poor way to take these guys down. Furthermore lets do it in the middle of no where & have the convenience of some crappy pine trees in the way of the video. Where's the video from the shooters on the ground showing him reaching for this supposed 9mm?
Edit: another thought, pretty sure pics of the deceased showed him carrying on right hip.....
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I was only passing information on what the FBI has said... that's all.
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News reports in the PNW are stating that they "found" an automatic pistol in his jacket where he was reaching. not semi-automatic, "automatic". kinda like the "whoops did we say that wrong? oh well it makes for better sensationalism and justifies his shooting right? ok, run it".
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I was only passing information on what the FBI has said... that's all.
I understand, wasn't giving you a hard time. The more I read the more I think this stinks.....
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FYI, it is common at a high risk stop to have the subject lower his hands to pickup his clothes to see if a weapon is in the waistband.
Most media is clueless to how a firearm functions or how it is determined.
I highly doubt anyone had a class III firearm, cept LEOs.
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Another fine example of law enforcement at its finest. This time it will or should get ugly
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Fair analysis by Max, welcome to FUSA........
http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/2016/01/comment-video-bundy-arrestst-finicum-killing/
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Call to action by PPN. Lavoy Finicum has become a martyr in many circles. This whole debacle has been very unfortunate. I must confess though I saw this coming to some extent and had written letters to my local senator (Cory Gardner R, CO.) asking for them to allow cool heads to prevail and diffuse the situation by way of the release of the Hammonds. That did not happen and here we go into the abyss.
http://www.pacificpatriotsnetwork.com/
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Large protests are being organized in OR at Burns and the governor's office. Wonder if it will stay friendly?
With 4 men still holed up at the compound who will probably get shot seventy four times, we might be witnessing the start of something here...
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LaVoy family statement & funeral arrangements.
http://libertylineup.com/2016/01/29/lavoy-finicum-family-statement/
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Shawna Cox interview worth a listen, backs up the 18 yr old female named Victoria's account.
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/31/shawna-cox-account/
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Interesting theory.......
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2016/01/31/why-did-robert-lavoy-finicum-have-to-die-the-connection-between-malheur-putin-the-clinton-foundation-and-big-money/
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Most media is clueless to how a firearm functions or how it is determined.
I highly doubt anyone had a class III firearm, cept LEOs.
I know that most media is clueless, it just seems that out here in the greater Seattle area, they just simply go with inaccuracies as the norm and move on without any attempt at correcting them. Next broadcast will have the correct terms, but not after getting another 100k to watch the follow up on the "automatic weapon" report.
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Tate, it's not just the media but the general population. As long as they have food in their belly, sports on the boob tube & a smart phone with Facebook nothing will change. My theory is you take away any of those three items & the gen pop would riot today....
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I cancelled cable and don't use any social media. THIS is as plugged in as I get. I completely agree with you. there was a mentally wasted native American homeless guy that was not on drugs, but drugs had messed his brain up so bad he was perma-fried. on a street corner in downtown Seattle brandishing and menacing bystanders with a large folding pocket knife. apparently this is how he panhandled; carving and selling chunks of hacked up wood. he was having a bad day and flipped out, came at the officers who had told him to drop the knife SEVERAL times, warning they would shoot, and eventually shot him. Rather than "homeless mentally ill man menacing bystanders with a knife shot by police" the headlines for weeks were "John the Woodcarver killed by Seattle police". which sounds better? It doesn't seem to matter the news outlet anymore, they are all political machines one way or the other. They only showed the footage a couple times because the video didn't fit the story they were trying to spin. Media is control. keep the populous docile and complacent and it's hard to get them motivated to action and revolt.
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So i was thinking about something recently...
A handful of cowboys take over a federal building... sure. That's illegal.
How many illegals are living in national forests, destroying wilderness by cutting down trees and damming creeks, to grow pot?
Where ya at FBI? BLM?
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No kidding.........
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So i was thinking about something recently...
A handful of cowboys take over a federal building... sure. That's illegal.
How many illegals are living in national forests, destroying wilderness by cutting down trees and damming creeks, to grow pot?
Where ya at FBI? BLM?
QUIETLY growing and smoking their pot, hiding out. Our friends in OR are under the spotlight for making known the mistakes of the government. instant target for speaking up.
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Feds are messing with nitro glycerin here. Could blow up in their face (Probably should) if they don't tread lightly!
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Nitro is in the mail & the hole gets way deeper!
Very interesting.....
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/carol-bundy-sends-2/
For those unaware Cliven was Lavoy's neighbor & good friend. Murder my neighbor & good friend I'd be pissed too.....
LaVoy explains the constitution & grazing with a little bit of Christianity thrown in.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3rZAvI1sQ8A&ebc=ANyPxKojXvfrYFnAkYDkADTSdEjFN91GQZ46RyOW4qiJPvcJOG_2ua7TI62xpxrjMEAgIvDlc2j6EoBpic6yMS6BmCwH4zIUew
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Hole keeps getting deeper
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/02/04/carol-bundy-sends-3/
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3432946/Funeral-draw-large-crowd-support-Oregon-protester.html#ixzz3zQF1TjaW
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https://www.oathkeepers.org/finicum-shooter-protection-bill-points-to-wider-issue-of-government-distrust/
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Ya know....if one thinks a little, this is not what it appears.
This is far bigger than a land grab and some pissed off ranchers and supporters.
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Ya know....if one thinks a little, this is not what it appears.
This is far bigger than a land grab and some pissed off ranchers and supporters.
Correct...
There just happens to be Uranium in the Malheur refuge, and the Russians now own 60% of our Uranium...
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I suspect it's possibly bigger than that as well. Although a disturbing thought in all honesty, the Uranium issue is not what I was getting at. It looks like planned attempt at creating civil unrest of the citizens.
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I suspect it's possibly bigger than that as well. Although a disturbing thought in all honesty, the Uranium issue is not what I was getting at. It looks like planned attempt at creating civil unrest of the citizens.
Norm,
I'll bet everyone here is thinking that as well. Get it going so the powers to be can get on with what's next in their play book...
Sad...In America
I was just thinking how far we have come since the 1940's to now. My dad flew bombers over Germany. 16 million American warriors along with our allies freed the world of aggression, but, obviously not from evil.
We as a nation enjoyed prosperity, freedom, and had more carefree lives in the years following. Then ever so slowly, yet continually, the social winds have been blowing ever harder out of the left.
Now days our moral compass is so screwed up it's about as accurate as a recent high schooler's ability to perform long division, or name the countries bordering the US!
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Another thought: Civil unrest which led to civil disobedience could give the prez the reason for envoking marshal law. Isn't that just another way to continue to stay in office beyond Jan of 17?
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I think they were doing as they said, just raising awareness to a much larger issue. I think the feds then made an example of them.
And as I said, I put nothing past this bozo up there,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Since interest has picked up here a bit, more food to consume....
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/a-fair-question-2/
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/oryan-sends-operational-considerations-regarding-the-malheuer-event/
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Well, told Don I would keep my mouth shut. However Lord knows I ain't no good at that, never have been. Prayers go out to all involved in this mess on both sides.
Video here on this post is hard to watch, tougher than the ariel video feed feds gave early on.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016/03/finicums-wake.html
http://katu.com/news/local/jailhouse-interview-ammon-bundy-says-governments-story-is-unraveling
http://stopshouting.blogspot.com/2016/03/a-brief-comment-on-ongoing-revelations.html
Autopsy report on Finicum
http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/other/2016/03/08/Finicum%20autopsy%20report.pdf
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/03/08/fbi-agents-under-investigation-for-not-disclosing-shots-fired-in-oregon-standoff/
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Saw it this morning in the news. New there was more to it.
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I have a problem with that in several ways. Lavoy seemed liked he was trying to get shot. Reaching into your coat in a situation like that is nothing more than suicide.
Having said that, He was shot so many times...in the back...A could in the arms or legs would have gotten the job done, and he might have survived...
Mostly, it pisses me off seeing those officers continuing to shoot into the truck when there was no return fire from it. Adrenaline was making the officers over react possibly. but they continued to shoot for awhile...WHY?
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I watched the latest video and all I can say is wow. Like everyone gathered from the first one, Lavoy couldn't see the roadblock until it was too late and guns were blazing as he cursed (I thought I heard cursing but was wrong)and reacted the best he could.
Afterwards, the passengers were not showing any signs of threat. There were just random shots for nothing after the initial shots and flash bangs....a couple single shots spaced out when everyone was still down. Way more overall shots than I originally thought.
It didn't give me any warm and fuzzy feelings.
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I agree with you Don except for shot placement. Body mass is the main target to stop the threat. When the threat is gone, no reason to continue shooting.
Reaching into his pocket was stupid stating the threat process regardless of out come.
With all the resources there, where was EMT or even a heli?
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The weird part is that he was shot 3 times, and according to the autopsy, all were in the back and one of those 3 was at a steep upward angle....as if he was shot on the ground. If he was reaching for his weapon, the officers in front would have pulled the trigger. The autopsy also says that 2 bullets exited his left chest (nipple area), which also happens to be where he was grabbing. Hmm
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I asked this before but are we sure Finicum wasn't already shot once when he reached for his pocket or possibly a wound?
Also, think this was a coincidence that the area for the take down had no cell reception?
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That or they simply blocked cell usage.
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They shot twice as he exited the vehicle, which could account for a shot in the back. I'm trying hard to keep an open mind, but having sound to go with the video makes a world of difference.
And of course they knew about the cell service, I mean, I'm sure they had cell phones that didn't work either.
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So what are we suggesting with this?
Assignation?
Too much adrenaline?
Entire event thought out and set up, as in a mil style hit? (See first statement)
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I'm suggesting that a decent Christian rancher died for no reason other than he disagreed with the powers that be. I think the whole take down was poorly designed and executed.....
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The whole thing smells fishy. I would say that it was just a bunch of trigger happy leos (read adrenaline, tired of this thing dragging out, or whatever reason) but it looked like they planned it to happen the way it happened, but who am I...... nobody.
Kinda funny (to myself) looking back.....my first thoughts were "oh well, that's what you get for arming yourself, taking over a building, acting like terrorists, and standing up against the government" but now I find myself thinking totally opposite, and showing sympathy for these folks...
I just hope the full truth comes out, if there is more to it.
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I'm suggesting that a decent Christian rancher died for no reason other than he disagreed with the powers that be. I think the whole take down was poorly designed and executed.....
Oh wait now, leo is ...never mind I totally agree with you.
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I agree that the videos of the shooting seem off. Why did they shoot into the truck after lavoy was shot? Why was lavoy shot in the back etc. The second road block further up the road after the initial traffic stop looks to be baiting them into running. The strategic location they chose for the road block that had no cell service, and on a blind corner. The L shaped ambush that they had them in when they drove into the snow bank. But it's hard to prove misconduct by the LEOs when the events leading up to it look so bad.
The reason I feel this will never get much more traction than discussions on forums (and there are a lot of discussions on forums I frequent) is because they had no business in Oregon in the first place. The ranchers in Oregon had stated repeatedly they were not wanted there. The occupation of the refuge was blundered from the get go. Them putting a video out asking for snacks. Their repeated calls for help from other patriot groups, that went un answered. Lavoy stating on national news that he would die before going to jail etc.
Granted none of us were there to get first hand reports of what was happening and the media spun this how the powers wanted it spun. But that being said the official narrative plays out that these guys were anti government domestic terrorists who were hell bent on going out in a blaze of glory to prove a point.
It's hard to get people to investigate something like that. You've got some people yelling about it, and rightfully so. Scandals or police wrong doing need the media to inform the populace and they've spun it so out of this world that 90% of America thinks these guys were crazy gun nuts.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm suggesting that a decent Christian rancher died for no reason other than he disagreed with the powers that be. I think the whole take down was poorly designed and executed.....
Oh wait now, leo is ...never mind I totally agree with you.
Yes and you can pump up any situation (false intel) and that lets the LEO off the hook for the most part.
Frame of mind with the situation and info at hand.
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Could also be the LEO's are being fed false information from higher up on the food chain, leading them to believe that taking them out was the only option etc etc. I'd like to believe that the majority of them were just following orders. I think the takedown was tactical; given the "militia's" status, it would make sense to effect the stop in an area where there would be no cell service to sever communications as best as possible, it just makes sense. I'm sure Nate or Bobby or Don would back me up on that. Sad all around though, and feds are likely the head of the snake here, just using the locals.
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You can block a signal anywhere. Our mobile command could do that. LEO would still have radio as that is way more powerful and uses repeaters. But cell is taking over there some too. Many buildings use it and require you to use their WIfi.
If the takedowns were ordered, I believe it would have been longer range rifle vs up close defensive type weapons.
And where are the bean bag guns used in about 99% of all depts now? Or CS gas to get them out of the building long earlier?
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You can block a signal anywhere. Our mobile command could do that. LEO would still have radio as that is way more powerful and uses repeaters. But cell is taking over there some too. Many buildings use it and require you to use their WIfi.
If the takedowns were ordered, I believe it would have been longer range rifle vs up close defensive type weapons.
And where are the bean bag guns used in about 99% of all depts now? Or CS gas to get them out of the building long earlier?
When you don't like the message, shoot the messenger.......... :(
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I think you're on to something there
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Happened a lot to people acquainted with a couple out of Arkansas..........but those people usually shot themselves then threw the gun away from their bodies after the shot......
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Ok, just say it. Kens favorite gal! :D
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Happened a lot to people acquainted with a couple out of Arkansas..........but those people usually shot themselves then threw the gun away from their bodies after the shot......
Slick who?????????
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https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2018/02/03/oregonlive-fbi-told-state-police-not-to-wear-body-cameras-for-2016-stop-of-finicum-and-other-refuge-occupation-leaders/
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Hmmmm...