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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Hide site, retirement site.
« on: August 08, 2015, 11:06:28 PM »
I'm starting this thread to document my decision process and progress towards my BOL and retirement site.

Now I know we will all have differing opinions on the opsec aspects probability and execution. This is just my thoughts. I strive for a balance between probability and usability.

I first sat down and developed a plan that I call concentric circles based on likelihood and scenarios.

The circles represent scenarios in order of likelihood and I have executed in order of probability.

Bug In ( most likely, highest probability) 2-4 weeks in duration.

Hurricane preparedness
Minor civil unrest
Some contagions
Short term power outages

Short term bug out( next most likely). 4weeks to 1 year

Major contagion.
Major civil unrest
EMP

Long term bug out. (Things are never going back to normal)

Nuke
Major EMP
Total economic collapse


I'll come back and break it down in subsequent posts.


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 11:58:07 AM »
I FREAKIN LOVE THIS!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline JR

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 05:14:31 PM »
Sure, another can of worms opens!!

Should be great,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

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Thomas Jefferson

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 06:17:15 PM »
Well a little back story.  My wife thought I was crazy, collecting weapons, ammo, hiring a professional weapons trainer to do 1:1 lessons each week.  Every time I would try to explain, she would shut down.

Then one day, it happened.  She watched a news special about EMP and the vulnerability of our grid.  So I tossed her my copy of Lights Out and from then on it was a different conversation.

I tend to be very analytical and methodical in my approach so I sat down with her and we went through, for us, what we thought would be the most likely scenarios and built outward from there. Thus the concentric circles were born.  That also gave us the ability to tackle things in an organized fashion.  Why buy land in Idaho for the ultimate BOL, when you can't survive 4 weeks without electricity or water in the event of a natural disaster?

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline OldKooT

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 08:07:11 AM »
I am also reading this with interest. That said, I have my reservations as to how much one should invest both time and money in trying to prepare for the unknown.
Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 08:29:59 AM »
I am also reading this with interest. That said, I have my reservations as to how much one should invest both time and money in trying to prepare for the unknown.
Not so unknown Koot
You know you gotta eat, drink, lay down, stay warm, personal hygiene, square dance and so forth. So you makey sure you have those things and you're mostly good. Beyond that it's a regional thing. Considering your excellent location, for you, bugging-in makes a coffee bean pile of sense.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 09:15:45 AM »
That's why I enjoy reading other folks ideas/plans. It's different everywhere.... I just wonder if one can really prepare, or does one just need to change how they live? Work into life the common sense society has largely lost sight of? Either or, it's enjoyable thinking out loud.




Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2015, 07:28:58 PM »
So,back from the place and sore from hoisting metal pipe and beams as I add a lean to on the back of the shop.  30ft sticks are a booger to move and lift.

So Norm, my philosophy was that I needed a plan that balances risk and probability and is organized and methodical.  Having lived through a few hurricane's and evacuations, I realized that civility is a very, very thin and weak veneer made worse by the just in time inventory delivery system.  Remember when you were a kid and a local store had a "back room" with tons of produce and canned goods?  Not any more.  Very little inventory is available other than what is on the shelf.  If something disrupts the delivery, we are going to be hurting.

I saw this first hand in the evacuation from Rita (the one that followed Katrina by a few weeks)  Some people sat on the road 12 hours and never made it 100 miles.  More people died in the evacuation than in the actual hurricane.  Thousands upon thousands of cars were stranded on the side of the road as gasoline was no where to be had.  I had a 2 year old and my wife was expecting our second.  We had a place at the lake about 90 miles north and was fortunate to be able to get there in only 5 hours.  People were losing their minds, running all over the median and shoulders, causing accidents and backing up traffic.  Fights, gun play and other violence at the gas pumps was common.

When we got to our place we heard the storm had changed tracks and was headed right towards us.  As we prepared to leave and estimated the ability to get gas, I remembered a little out of the way gas station off the main highway and went to check it out.  It was closed but the VFD was there gassing up (they have keys) They said she only had about 200 gallons of premium left and opened at 7.   I was in line at 5 am (#3 in line) with my old gasser truck.  I filled the truck and my 35 gallon rolling gas can I used for my boat.  By the time she opened there were 51 cars in line.  Somewhere about car 10 they ran out.

We left for Arkansas and saw mayhem and madness everywhere.  I noticed that cars were all out of gas, but rednecks in their diesel trucks were having no problem getting fuel.  That's when it started for me.  I realized how thin the veneer of civility was, and how vulnerable I felt with my wife, daughter and unborn all counting on me.  I vowed I would never feel that way again.

I did make it to AR and we were fine, but I was never again going to be caught un prepared.  Thus the concentric circles were born.

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2015, 08:18:11 PM »
Circle One:

Short term bug in:  Hurricane, minor civil unrest, minor contagion, short term power outage. (keep in mind not all things get put on the internet for the world to see, but the basics are here).

Have a plan:  Put it in writing and share with your family.  Practice quizzing each other on the scenarios and actions and contingencies

We had this little thing called tropical storm Allison several years ago before we had kids.  It dumped 30 inches of rain in 2 days.  Everything was under water.  I had just flown back from Oakland and we landed about midnight.  I took my chances in my truck and wound up sleeping on the freeway overpass since there was 4 ft of water over the roadway.  Cell tower went down and my wife and I could not communicate.

Revelation #1, modern day communications fail in a disaster.  In a terrorist attack the plan by the government is to shut down cell towers and internet.  How you gonna call your wife to confirm plans, provide updates, or modify standing plans?  Amateur radio is the key.  I had a VHF/UHF antenna installed in the top of an 80ft pine in my front yard and got my HAM license.  I installed a mobile system in the car that I drove to work every day.  From anywhere within 35 miles I can hit my own antenna simplex ( radio to radio) without a repeater.  Now no matter what, I can communicate with the family at home.  I highly recommend making sure comms are one of the first things you consider in any planning.

Next was food and water.  I started putting together a food plan that includes: dried and canned goods, MREs, Dehydrated, and even heirloom seeds.  I obtained some new HPDE food grade barrels to keep filled with water.  Use tap water,if you can.  It comes from the treatment plant is has some chlorine in it already which helps it not grow stuff in it.  I add a few drops of chlorine for good measure.  Change the water out every 2 years.

The plan is to have food in the pantry that will last a month, a months supply of MREs with heaters and water stored on site.  All other food stores are off site in the BOL.

Weapons and training are a necessity.  Got a nice Glock or AR?  How much professional instruction have you had from guys like Bobby, Nate, Don, Blaine or others that have "been there done that"?  How much have you practiced?  There is more to being armed than having a weapon and ammo.  When I got my CHL as the provider and protector of my family I connected with an outfit of former Spec Op guys and found one of them that would also train 1:1 in addition to the group classes.  I began putting 1000 rounds a month downrange from my G17 in private lessons I took every week after work for 2 years, based on my situation and selected scenarios.   

Morale of the story:  Our government spent millions training our soldiers to fight.  Take advantage of your tax dollars at work and find a competent ex-Mil to train you how to fight. 

Next was weapon selection and stockpiling:

We all argue for our favorite weapon and those that have read my blathering posts know I am a Glock fan boy.  Get what you like and learn to shoot it often.  I chose Glock.  The originator. Simple.  Few parts, standardized parts. Tough. Rugged.  Dependable.  One helluva weapon when you swap out the factory trigger for a Ghost Rocket 3.5 trigger and Trijicon night sights.

A little side track here (Am I DOTing my own thread??)  If you believe in economic collapse as a possibility, then Gold comes to mind as a hedge.  However, think about this:  Guns never lose their value and only increase over time too.  So does just about ANY durable good.  Ammo, Weapons, tools, weapon mags, weapon parts.  If you buy a bunch and never need them for 20 years, you'll have a nice little investment anyway when you divest them. And you can barter with them nicely in the event of a collapse.  Not a lot of need for gold when you have no food and roving bands of thugs are out raping and killing (remember Katrina?  Yeah like those guys)

So I wanted to standardize my weapons for multiple reasons.  I and my family will all be shooting the same weapon system and thus familiarity and functionality and spare parts will be maximized.  Here is what I chose to amass in quantity.  ( I sill have the other odd weapons, like my Weatherby 460 mag, etc. but I ain't counting on that when trouble starts)

1.  Glock 21 full size 45.  I have several still in the tupperware in storage.
2. AR in 5.56. Again, several complete and in parts.
3. AK-47.  Cheap and always goes bang.  Ammo is cheap. Several in storage and also receiver flats and parts.
4. 12 ga Remington 870.  Enough said, always works standard ammo.  I have several in storage.
5. Glock 17, just for training and barter.  9mm is cheaper to shoot and since it functions like my other glocks my hands will never know when the time comes that I have something different in my hand.  Again, a few in tupperware stored away

The rest are personal use weapons not in sufficient numbers to barter or stockpile.

6. 22LR pistol and rifle - suppressed.  If things get nasty you'll want to harvest food quietly.  And maybe a few other things quietly.
7. 308 bolt and semi auto AR
8 300 WM for when you really need to reach out and touch someone

Ammo.  You can never have too much ammo.  As a minimum I would keep 5000 rounds of each caliber as a baseline.

Weapon parts:  Don't overlook springs, bolts, extractors,  mags and mag springs etc.  Stuff breaks and parts are always good for barter.

Cleaning supplies.  Same as above.

So you need to decide how much ammo and weapons you keep in your primary residence, how many go to secondary or tertiary locations.  I personally keep just what I need to potentially fight my way out.  Ammo stored in primary residence is mainly in loaded mags and amounts to more than what military loads out with and I'll leave it at that. 

Next is medical kit. Stuff happens. Keep a kit and again, get some first aid training.  Short of open heart surgery, I have a pelican case with just about everything I'll every need.  Sutures, meds, antiseptics, burn pads/gels, quick clot, israeli bandages, and epi pens, etc.  I'll do a complete write up on my kit later.

Cash.  I like to keep some funds on hand.  If something goes down, then having a few weeks worth of cash is important.  ATMs run on the internet and electricity.

Respirators/NBC:  I acknowledge that I have a gap here.  I will be closing this soon as the kids are of the age where  I can get them to wear one effectively.

Tape and plastic:  In the event of a nuke, or chem spill ( I am in Houston, the petrochemical capital) you may need to make a safe room, sealed off.

Back up power:  I have a gas portable gen set for the primary residence.  I plan to add a NG stand by.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 08:05:46 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2015, 10:38:28 PM »
^^^Good write up

Well thought out process, solid reasoning. He has standardized good stuff, and enough of it, AND he has practiced using it.

I wouldn't add anything to all of that
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2015, 11:14:43 PM »
I interrupt my own thread for a question.

I'm considering some bulk fuel storage and not having any experience with large tanks, wondered if there was some advice for me when considering a used tank.

http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/5132567152.html

Other than filtering and making sure there is no water in the fuel, if a used tank has any rust on the inside due to previous water presence, is it junk or need to be remediated, or does presence of fuel and lack of water and oxygen essentially stop the rust and render it a filtering exercise only?

This is a pretty good deal on a 1000 gallon tank and he's negotiable.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 08:10:34 AM »
Well, what I can offer is for above ground tanks the construction companies or a farm that is getting auctioned are good tanks usually.

As for keeping the fuel longer, one thing we sometimes do in the military that I don't see discussed often is remove the air from above the fuel and fill the tank with nitrogen.

The purpose is not to preserve the stuff, but rather to keep it from burning, since a fire needs oxygen. However a side bennie is the fact that bacteria has a harder time in nitrogen as does some types of algae.

So by my thinking if you take away all light, and all oxygen and don't expose it to higher temps you might achieve good long term storage of the stuff

Here's another plan. Store oil. Veggie oil, WVO, trans fluid, mixed with old diesel. Then when you need some, simply filter and refine it with your handy-dandy fuel maker (Available at Northern for $1450ish) and you now have fresh fuel. Waste oil ought to hang around much longer than refined diesel.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline OldKooT

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2015, 11:04:27 AM »
Interesting reading... as per the fuel issue I'd recommend a air of 250gal tanks if doing above ground, and a constant cycling use of the fuel. Fact is, modern diesel does not store well at all.
Fuel oil keeps better than Diesel, it's also not always an option with newer trucks as I am sure you know..just a FWIW thing. Another reason for a pair of fuel oil tanks. They have less "regulations" and appear much less of a target to fuel thieves. No one has to know what "grade" of fuel oil your storing.

I found your story regarding hurricane evacuation thoughtful. I am sure if I lived in such an area I'd have a disposable Diesel "something" to use as my evac rig. I think I would factor in a rack of Mt Bikes also, it seems the roads were well jammed. Something the news didn't offer, but I am curious, were the secondary roads a equal mess? I would think if they were, leaving earlier, travel light, is the best plan I could dream up. I have a friend who was living in New Orleans when that mess went down. He was one of the smarter ones and left very early in the game. His over cautious nature paid off....they never did move back, guess I don't blame him.

Your Amateur radio solution is something I feel more should consider. Especially if in larger urban areas. We use FM Business radios on the farm, and they are forever handy for just such situations.

Looking forward to more posts.....



 






 

Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline rasimmo

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 01:40:06 PM »
I live about an hour north of New Orleans. During evacuations I stay clear of major highways and travel through the bushes on back roads. I have family a little ways north of me and that is where we go if evac is needed or just safer. I have traveled further during hurricanes with my horses in tow. Sitting on the highway with them in the trailer in 100 degree heat is not an option. I have found that traveling the 2 tracks is a more constant movement type of travel during these situations.

Offline OldKooT

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2015, 02:20:38 PM »
My friend who escaped NO with his family early on found traffic to start being a problem early on. His past life as a taxi driver had taught him all the alleys, interconnecting parking lots, and other such tricks to navigate across a city without relying strictly on established main roads. That most likely saved his family an immense amount of grief. I don't think all the $$$ in the world would put him back in a large city ever again.

Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2015, 02:52:53 PM »
BTW, I have bid on some 250-300 gal portable job site tanks for around $500 and didn't connect the dots on any of them
 Starting @ $1000 and back tracking would make that a pretty good buy for the 1K tank pictured
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2015, 03:25:29 PM »
Usually around here used fuel tanks go for about $.75 a gallon. But they are very common around here also. 1000 gallons is a lot to keep "fresh"  We have given up trying to stay ahead of diesel anymore...I bought a small tanker truck for harvest and planting season, and we just use that. Today's newer diesels are so finicky that stuff my old Dodge would happily drink, will cause a new combine to sputter and complain constantly. So we like many others have resorted to keeping what we can burn in a month on hand and no more.
Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline JR

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2015, 03:53:04 PM »
I would like to see more of this too. The tanks are pretty common around here, going for like 100 there so many of them.

Heck Koot, having a truck with enough for a month would be great. Something happens just hide it!!!

I need to get the family on board is my hardest part. I have most of the above. Buy a case of something here and there. A few cases of top ramen or beans will go a long way.

Regular masks (even childrens) and filters are easy, but new filters are pricey. I have enough for all with extra filters. Some are outdated, some are not.

I think a basic power system is something that should be covered besides generators. Solar and water power is free once obtained. I am not a big fan windmills.

For well under a $1000 you can setup a small system, keep you fridge cold and charge those batteries. I use solar for my batteries when camping, something like Don has in the back of SD. Plus think of all the batteries that will be sitting in fuel less autos, even yours. I don't like windmills, little output, to obvious. But they work at night like water.
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Offline Pulley

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2015, 06:10:18 PM »
You mentioned quietly harvesting food, have you considered bow hunting?
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2015, 08:10:51 PM »
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  Don, it is interesting that you mention inert gas.  I already keep an 80CF cylinder of nitrogen on hand.  I thought of the same thing,  Purge when full then pressurize slightly with nitrogen, say 5 psi with a relief valve.  When near empty and time to refill, just open the system and then repressurize after filling.  I'll have to dig out some old boyles law calculations and determine what pressure when 90% full would equal atmospheric pressure when empty.  That would be ideal.  ALong with some of the milspec treatment that should last a long time.  Of course my tractor might just be very thirsty so rotating that stock every 6 months would not be a hard thing.  I understand that well stored diesel can go 7-10 years.

When I get to the Second Circle things get a bit more interesting as evac routes, plans and equipment become much more debatable.  I'm somewhere between circle 2 and circle 3 now and hope that in 5 years I'm fully realized.

As for the hurricane evac, yes every road was packed.  MBs were not an option with a 7 month pregnant wife and a 2 year old.  As the kids get older more options become possible.  Which means you never have a static plan.  Even without kids, as we age, our plans have to change.  When you are 60, things you planned to be able to do when 30 are not likely so adjustments have to be made.  When you have 4 million people trying to move, its gridlock.  In Circle 2 I'll show some of the evac route maps and population density maps that helped guide some of my thought process.  As well as a concept that the Mils amongs the group will recognize, natural lines of drift.  Basically, if you are east of the Mississippi you are in a world of hurt as if you are withing 100 miles of the coast.  More to come as I get my thoughts together and organized for consumption.
Pully, yep. I need to get a crossbow at a minimum.

JR, I may want to pick your brain as I get closer to alternate energy execution.  I've read a bit about it but still studying.  At first I want a grid tied system and get paid for spinning the meter backwards but would like to have the gear to transition to off grid if/when the time comes.

Thanks again,  Keep the thoughts coming.  I have a plan, but I've never considered it to be perfect.  I have and will make adjustments as necessary and the collective intelligence from this group is helpful.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2015, 03:53:49 AM »
At first I want a grid tied system and get paid for spinning the meter backwards but would like to have the gear to transition to off grid


There's a guy up here who has a couple of the windmills. Bought one for something like $5,xxx, turned it on and around 6-8 months later he received enough money back from the power company to buy another.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline OldKooT

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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2015, 08:16:17 AM »
On windmills: We have a windmill, as in a 1890's model LoL It pumps water very well, and I have the old stone grinding wheel attachment for it also, in case I am ever in the mood to sharpen a machete or something LoL

But my point being, sometimes the old ways work far simpler than new modern "concepts" That wind mill coupled to a 24V Alternator is a pretty darn quiet, cheap to run battery charger.

A flat belt and a old hit and miss engine can run a entire host of "attachments" and they run cheap and quiet. And they have an amazing duty cycle as well. This winter I will start a thread on the restoration of a few select old school means of living off grid that worked for generations and still do. 
Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2015, 10:25:27 AM »
I was wondering who and when a hit-and-miss would be brought up.
Underpaid and misunderstood since 2014

Online nmeyer414

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2015, 11:00:36 AM »
im in for that norm
Nate

Push a KIA or Prius into the ditch this winter if the opportunity arises........it'll build character for a suffering millennial! or if you see Donkey Kong in a Jetta expect a wedding in the works

Offline moto123

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2015, 02:25:23 PM »
6. 22LR pistol and rifle - suppressed.  If things get nasty you'll want to harvest food quietly.  And maybe a few other things quietly.

Lots of great info there, but I am curious about this comment.  I was always told suppressors are not legal to buy, has this changed or are there exceptions that I should review?

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2015, 02:36:18 PM »
This is a really great thread! I really like your "concentric circles" perspective. I think all preps should done in a similar fashion- assigning probabilities of occurrence as well as the impact/cost if it does. As an example I don't think my house will burn down but the cost is too great for me if it does so fire insurance is a logical "must have" (not to mention my bank requiring it! ha). If you live in an area with blizzards that knock out power and suspend travel for a week or so on a routine basis then it makes sense to have a week's worth of food on hand at all times. And you go from there based on the risk/event and what can occur should it take place. Very thoughtful and forces you to think through the planning process.

On the issue of fuel storage has anyone used any of the fuel stabilizers (Sta-Bil or PRI-D)? I know for gasoline it makes a big difference in my mower etc. Don't have to run it empty which can lead to gaskets drying out, cracking etc. but the engine fires right up in the spring. I know these products will keep fuel for an extended period in better condition but cant seem to find how long their diesel products will "keep" fuel in good condition. But it might be easier than other ways of keeping the fuel good.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2015, 04:37:03 PM »
Back to the nitrogen unit

A thrifty guy might find one in the ex-military sales

We used them to actually catalytically create oxygen for breathing, at high altitudes

The thing was called OBOGS pronounced "O"- Bogs just like it appears.

Air was pumped into this chamber where it was separated into it's parts. O2 went to a tank where aviators used it to fend off the effects of last nights O-Club shenanigans, and the remaining stuff which was like 90% Nitrogen was pumped into the fuel cells.
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2015, 04:55:30 PM »
I buy/use about 10K gallons of diesel a year on the farm. My experience is sometimes we get a batch that goes "sour" quickly...sometimes it seems to last much longer. I think the additive package you have in the fuel is the deciding point. Since most of what we buy is "red" off road fuel in most cases it's far better than the road fuels ya get at the truck stop. As for products... some work pretty well. Our fuel guy will come mix in some additives if the stuff starts to go bad, and it seems to solve the issue until we burn it. I have no actual product names or data, but next time I see him I will ask.

Of interest: I recently bought 250gal of fuel oil that was put in a tank in 1992. My Cummins loves it.

Norm

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Offline rasimmo

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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2015, 07:25:00 PM »
6. 22LR pistol and rifle - suppressed.  If things get nasty you'll want to harvest food quietly.  And maybe a few other things quietly.

Lots of great info there, but I am curious about this comment.  I was always told suppressors are not legal to buy, has this changed or are there exceptions that I should review?
Yes they are legal to own and use. There are some steps to take to register and purchase/build them legally though. They require approval from the ATF after you send them $200 for the "tax stamp".

Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2015, 08:50:56 PM »
Most of us still have our rights.  IL, not so much.


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« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 09:13:37 PM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2015, 09:11:33 PM »
I'd love to see the write up on the hit or miss and other throw back ways of getting things done.

I figure I'll go though 1000 gal of fuel every 5 months.  My little tractor is very thirsty for red fuel

Don, If I remember chemistry and physics from 30 years ago, to equal 1 atmosphere when nearly empty, I would have to pressurize to 132 psi at 90% full for a sealed system.  Not sure that would be advisable so I'll need to look at a semi sealed system.  I'll need to devise a system to supply N during the filling operation (draining the tank)  A pressure regulator set to keep the tank at 3-5psi positive pressure.  If I keep it out of the sun then the expansion and cooling should be kept to a minimum and thus usage of N from the tank.  I'll need a pressure relief set at 10 psi and a regulator set to supply 5 psi so that its not a linear correlation between N usage and any fluctuation in temp/pressure......hmmm
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline rasimmo

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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2015, 09:17:51 PM »
There's that picture again. I'm not sure if I like it or hate it. That and the discussion that followed has cost me some money. Not only to run one on 22 pistols, but also to rig one of those M&P 40 I just bought to be capable also. Not sure what the results of that are yet. Still waiting on booster from liberty that's on back order. More importantly waiting on that stamp.

Moto,
 As RN mentioned, some states do not allow them. Not legal advice from me, but check your local laws and visit with a lawyer that specializes in NFA trusts would be my first suggestion on this matter.

Offline Flyin6

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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2015, 09:23:30 PM »
I'd love to see the write up on the hit or miss and other throw back ways of getting things done.

I figure I'll go though 1000 gal of fuel every 5 months.  My little tractor is very thirsty for red fuel

Don, If I remember chemistry and physics from 30 years ago, to equal 1 atmosphere when nearly empty, I would have to pressurize to 132 psi at 90% full for a sealed system.  Not sure that would be advisable so I'll need to look at a semi sealed system.  I'll need to devise a system to supply N during the filling operation (draining the tank)  A pressure regulator set to keep the tank at 3-5psi positive pressure.  If I keep it out of the sun then the expansion and cooling should be kept to a minimum and thus usage of N from the tank.  I'll need a pressure relief set at 10 psi and a regulator set to supply 5 psi so that its not a linear correlation between N usage and any fluctuation in temp/pressure......hmmm
Our fuel tanks were not pressurized. Actually they were vented.
Nitrogen is heavier than air so it just rests in there for the most part.
I think that OBOGS, however is an active system. While it is running you can breath and the fuel won't burn until it gets thrown into the noisy parts out back

Might be over thinking it

I still recommend, however store something more akin to oil, then refine it 60 gal at a time, what a home processer will make in a day.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2015, 10:45:19 PM »
hmm.  A little google fu turned up this.

http://wasteoildiesel.com/

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Offline KensAuto

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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2015, 10:54:02 PM »
Run an old cummins, and you wouldn't have to "refine" it.
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Offline Flyin6

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« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2015, 09:08:02 AM »
Run an old cummins, and you wouldn't have to "refine" it.
Or a Perkins marine engine like the one powering that HB generator
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2015, 07:59:03 PM »
Circle 2

Here is where people?s thoughts tend to diverge.  You will recall Cicle 1 is short term bug-in.  The premis of Circle 2 is that you must leave your location for a while., up to a year.  This means 2 things: You must have a place to go and you must have a way to assuredly get there.  2 controversial things in our preparations.

Not everyone will be able to have 2 or more residences and that may not be a requirement, but you will have to have a place to go and most likely will not be able to carry all the necessary supplies with you which means you will have to have staged supplies somewhere.

The three things we will cover in this Circle are: Site Selection, Method of egress, and supplies to stockpile.
SITE SELECTION
Everyone?s situation will be different so you must evaluate your location, your secondary location, your support group (if any) and your mode of transportation and avenue of egress.  Remember that civility is veneer thin and you will now see it evalorate before your eyes.  True depraved human nature will likely be the norm and you must prepare yourself for what that will look like.  I want to paint a picture for you.  Remember the name Reginald Denny?  During the 1992 LA riots he was driving a concrete truck and got caught up in the rioting in a bad part of town.  He was pulled from his truck and beaten severely and then one black thug ran up to him with a brick and bashed his head in.  It was all caught on a helicopter news camera. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMP6bXnXdZM

People will justify in their own weak minds that any action they are taking is legitimate because they have ?needs?.  It doesn?t have to be the black inner city thug.  It might very well be your penny loafer wearing neighbor who has been too busy buying the latest BMW to pay attention to this ?crazy? notion of being prepared.  When suddenly faced with the reality that he is failing his family as a father and husband because they are lacking any sustenance and his wife is berating him though she be complicit in the lack of preparations, he makes the desperate decision to pull out that one shotgun he has and use it to kill you and take everything you have worked hard to store up for your family.  I guess the fable never envisioned the grasshopper pulling a gun on the ant?.

This is but one thought process based on my location and situation.  You may very well choose to cache supplies and weapons in an camping or remote area that is not well known and set up camp.  You may form a pact with someone in a remote area that is like minded and work out a roles and responsibility arrangement to jointly prepare.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:25:05 PM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2015, 08:00:15 PM »
LINES OF DRIFT

The first thing I considered was a concept known as ?lines of drift?.  In only a few short days of a major event, the cities will be uninhabitable. Food will be gone, and roving gangs will have taken over. As that occurs people will flee, following a fairly predictable pattern of egress knows as lines of drift.  Like a virus spreading, you will want to make sure that you are safely away from these lines of drift.  If you live in or near a large metro area, consider that as people flee in their cars they will only be able to make it as far as a maximum distance of a tank of fuel.  You need to be further than that away from the city or the mongrel hoard will run out of gas on your doorstep.

Look at your location and the population density.  East of the Mississippi is not a place to be.  The population density is very high.  Same goes for the coast.  123 Million People or about 39% of the US population lives in counties bounding the coast line..  Estimates are that 80% of the population lives within 100 miles of the coast.  Those people have their backs against the wall and will migrate inward. I won?t pretend to be an expert in your area, but here is what I considered.
Here is a population density map and a map of hurricane evacuation routes in Texas.  Those major roadways will constitute the logical lines of drift.  I wanted to be away from those areas and further than a tank of gas away from major cities.  I compromised here a bit knowing that in an emergency the roads will be packed and a tank of gas will not equal Gallons x MPG at 55mph.  This enabled me to justify buying a second home within a few hundred miles of my primary residence .  I did however strictly adhere to the lines of drift requirement.  Once I defined my area and requirements, the use of Google Earth helped me narrow properties down considerably and saved on needless driving and touring properties that did not meet my requirements.  It still took 18 months of constant looking to find the right place.  Be patient, have a list of requirements, a geographic target area and get actively looking.
I found a place that was outside of the convergence of major MSA lines of drift and adjacent to 10s of thousands of acres of National Forest in a very low population density area..  A 2 lane blacktop farm road is the closest access and the entrance to my location is very well hidden and I do not have a mailbox, nor is my property registered with the post office, which is how many search engines plot you on the map .  When using Google to look up my address it actually plots about 6 miles up the road.  Useful to know.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2015, 08:00:36 PM »
So I now have a second location that I believe will allow me to weather a year of civil collapse, and maybe more.  I believe that a second location should not be large enough to draw attention,  Modest is better for maintenance, upkeep and cost management.  My place has HardiPlank and a metal roof and is extremely well insulated with a complete envelope of spray in closed cell foam.  The energy needs are extremely small.  I do not have a well as of yet, but it is on the planning agenda.  I do have seasonal creeks and a decent sized pond.

Other things that we?ll consider later are:  how not to draw attention to yourself and how to store bulk items securely, especially if you are not regularly at your secondary location

Up next:  Transportation/evacuation plans. (method of egress)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:27:36 PM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2015, 08:02:04 PM »
attachments
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2015, 08:04:18 PM »
more
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2015, 08:06:28 PM »
better pop density map
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« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2015, 08:08:10 PM »
Some links to maps and data you might find useful in your decisions.

https://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/maps/thematic.html
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Atkinsmatt

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« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2015, 08:21:07 PM »
Great info.
Matt
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« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2015, 08:30:46 PM »
This will come into play later when we get to the third circle, but since we are looking at maps.


When you get to "things are never going to be the same", you have to be able to sustain yourself on naturally irrigated land.  Rainfall plays a key role in that deicison
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Flyin6

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« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2015, 09:35:53 PM »
I feel better...Just discovered my farm lies in the least populated area of the Kentucky!
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Offline OldKooT

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« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2015, 10:03:36 PM »
At or just under 1 person per square mile here. Life is good LoL

As for water....springs would be my advise, just saying.



Norm

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Offline moto123

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« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2015, 01:09:24 PM »
There's that picture again. I'm not sure if I like it or hate it. That and the discussion that followed has cost me some money. Not only to run one on 22 pistols, but also to rig one of those M&P 40 I just bought to be capable also. Not sure what the results of that are yet. Still waiting on booster from liberty that's on back order. More importantly waiting on that stamp.

Moto,
 As RN mentioned, some states do not allow them. Not legal advice from me, but check your local laws and visit with a lawyer that specializes in NFA trusts would be my first suggestion on this matter.

Thanks for the info.  I've only talked to people located in IL, so it hadn't crossed my mind that it was a state issue and not a country wide issue.  Stupid IL ... but at least it's legal to concealed carry now.  They are making progress.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2015, 04:55:09 PM »
Little departure here. Built a dry stacked fire pit. About 6ft diameter




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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Sammconn

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« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2015, 05:10:31 PM »
Looks great. I'd guess the stone is local? Nice when there is plenty and consistent thickness.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam