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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 09:37:58 PM »

https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/breaking-large-fed-presence-ivo-malheur/

Showdown coming up?

I can't help but think the feds, whichever fool may be in charge is trying to escalate this to a shooting event.

Little do they know, that if they do tens of thousands of militia folks will go active. I wouldn't want to be a FBI or state police guy up there if there is a Waco type response by government officials.

The Hammons have been delt with harshly and illegally. All these folks occupying this abandoned fed building are trying to do is raise awareness of this injustice. They are willing to risk their personal safety and freedom to get the situation righted.

If I were in command the first thing I would do is to order my "Forces" to stand down and go home. A few old guys in an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere pose zero threat to anyone.

However by escalating, what the federal government is saying is that you "The People" will shut up and do as you're told. We'll do any darned thing we want and if you question you, we'll crush you and salt the ground where you stood.

If the government assaults that building, people will get killed and the retribution that follows will, well, could light off a revolution. It wouldn't be all at once, but just like the Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan you'd start to see escalating attacks, sniping's, bombs and it would get worse and worse, and likely spiral out of control.

I'd pack my bags and go home and get ready for the super bowl game if I were the feds.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 09:40:00 PM by Flyin6 »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 09:56:38 PM »
I think you're on to something here. It's been relatively quiet but we're getting close to super bowl weekend. Some one must want this over so they can be home to watch the big game......
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2016, 08:15:53 AM »
I think you're on to something here. It's been relatively quiet but we're getting close to super bowl weekend. Some one must want this over so they can be home to watch the big game......
That would constitute the biggest mistake of the century.

That would clearly not signal a strong armed law enforcement move as I'm sure the leaders wish it would be, however, and this analogy is so scarily true...I think a strong armed raid on a few old guys in an abandoned building would be likened to the innocent report from a blank gun used to start a race. The sound is loud, but only for a second, then fades...But then the race begins....
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2016, 08:34:58 AM »
The Farm bureau statement:


Statement by Oregon Farm Bureau President Barry Bushue on sentencing of Steve and Dwight Hammond to five years in federal prison

October 7, 2015



BURN

SALEM, OREGON, October 7, 2015 ? ?Today two Oregon ranchers were sentenced to five years in federal prison under terrorism statutes for setting preventative fires on their own land. We are gravely disappointed at this outcome.

Elderly Harney County rancher Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, a former OFB Board member and Harney County Farm Bureau president, have already served time in federal prison for their mistakes and paid their debt to society for the less-than-140 acres of BLM land that was accidentally impacted by the fires.

This is an example of gross government overreach, and the public should be outraged.


Today?s verdict is also hypocritical given BLM?s own harm to public and private grazing lands, which goes without consequence. It is unjust. OFB worked on this case quietly behind the scenes with BLM through the spring and summer. That diligent diplomatic effort was fruitless.

This prosecution will have a chilling effect across the West among ranchers, foresters, and others who rely on federal allotments and permits. It will harm the positive relationship many ranchers and organizations have worked to forge with the BLM, and undermine the cooperative spirit most ranchers have brought to the bureau in helping the health of the range.

Please join Farm Bureau and declare your support for Steve and Dwight Hammond. Join over 2,600 other citizens from across the country and show BLM that this extreme abuse of power will not go unnoticed and is shameful. Sign the petition at www.savethehammonds.com. This must never happen again.

OFB will continue to work to bring public and policymaker attention to this case.?

BLM, Government overreach, SaveTheHammonds
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2016, 09:04:58 AM »
Don, I was being sarcastic about the football party.

I also think that petition should be a post of its own on the forum here.....

However, we have a lot of unqualified people in positions of authority in today's society. The reality is many are "pissed" over the treatment of the Hammonds. I hope & pray for a peaceful solution to what is essentially a protest over their double jeopardy sentence. I believe in the event of a violent push to end this aka Waco style or Ruby Ridge will create a decoupling of the American people & the government. I'm not saying it will be all out shooting war at least not at first but I think you will see a public that has been pushed too far at that point. A resistance will rise at that point, normal every day joes will go out of their way to be disruptive which will then ever increase in a tit for tat. Again, I hope cool heads prevail as this is not a good direction for anyone.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 09:09:00 AM by stlaser »
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Offline JR

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 10:18:16 PM »
I hope the feds don't push this past just being a show of force.

One thing we were always taught is time is on our side, there is no hurry if no one is being threatened. Getting 5 years for an "accidental" back fire is ridiculous, but as said above. "You will do what we say"

Take this a step farther with whoever is elected will get to choose 2-3 Justices. That could push the country over the teetering edge we are on.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 10:38:34 PM »
8 arrested in burns, several shot, one deceased. Ammon Bundy in custody...
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 10:47:20 PM »
Getting some information

Shots fired, possibly by the militia exchanging gunfire with the FBI. Roads around Burns are locked down. Hospital where casualties are is also locked down...
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 10:52:08 PM »
Correct, looks like the Feds tried to arrest them during a traffic stop. Shots were fired & 4 were arrested including both Bundy brothers. They are not releasing who was killed.....

Edit: 6 arrested
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 10:54:07 PM by stlaser »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 07:12:07 AM »
Sad turn of events........God Bless his family and those injured.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 01:40:21 PM »
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 02:05:44 PM »
I get really torn about cases like this. I totally get the frustration folks feel with government overreach. But I also can understand the cops side and if someone charges you (especially from a known tense standoff situation where guns are part of the mix) they are likely to act first out of self defense, and should too. Just sad all the way around in my mind.

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 03:10:32 PM »
Charge a cop after evading, you're gonna get shot. Period.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 05:53:22 PM »
Sheriff was on the news just a bit ago and visibly upset over it.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2016, 06:27:27 PM »
There was no reason for most of this.

Lock it down, sit it out. Time is on your side.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2016, 07:11:40 PM »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2016, 07:32:52 PM »
This is a tough one for everyone.

But the bottom line is, if the LEO's are acting within the confines of the law, I'd side with them. I'm sure the killing was not vindictive on the Officers part, but there is a lot of tension there. And a lot of rumor and mystique over Militia being there. If I was deployed there as say, a national guard adviser, and someone charged me given the situation up there, I'd shoot to defend myself as well.

The bad part for LEO's is that they are clearly stuck in the middle. The BLM and the crooked justice (Court) system are the bad guys here whom the folks occupying the refuge building are protesting against. The FBI, State troopers and Deputies are just doing their job. I doubt any of them save for perhaps one or two Rambo types, really wants to assault fellow citizens protesting against a very unfair situation. But those officers have a job, a badge, and an oath. They need to do their job. The people occupying the wildlife refuge should have engaged the BLM and courts through the legal process.

But now that it's done, the place is an armed fortress. I'd just leave it alone. So what if they live out their lives there. As long as they don't threaten anyone, is it really worth getting our police officers shot? I say no. Back off, leave it alone. Build a 15 foot anchor fence around it, put a gate on it and check the lock once every 5 years.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2016, 09:17:51 PM »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2016, 09:44:15 PM »
Well, that is certainly different than what I read this morning!
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2016, 09:45:24 PM »
I read the girls report that mirrored this article this morning. Also just read this on ZH...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-27/ammon-bundy-admits-defeat-calls-remaining-oregon-occupiers-stand-down-go-home
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2016, 10:44:32 PM »
That last line says a lot Don. They said they were armed to defend themselves and made no threats.

With all that going on where were the "cameras" even one of the LEOs, in a car or somewhere.

I don't know. Shooting an unarmed person who is charging you? Were any weapons seen at the stop? Remember, "hands up-don't shoot"?

Plus, no bail for what really amounts to a trespassing? Witnesses are in custody?

To much not answered, to many red flags,,,,,,,,,,,,
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 10:52:01 PM by JR »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2016, 10:51:53 PM »
Where's the vehicles, where's the body & independent autopsy......
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2016, 11:59:30 PM »
In today's age.  There has to be video footage somewhere
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 05:41:44 AM by stlaser »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2016, 05:43:43 AM »
In today's age.  There has to be video footage somewhere


Yes, maybe our government would be so kind as to give us the drone footage of the event as it unfolded...... ::)
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2016, 10:19:43 AM »
That last line says a lot Don. They said they were armed to defend themselves and made no threats.

With all that going on where were the "cameras" even one of the LEOs, in a car or somewhere.

I don't know. Shooting an unarmed person who is charging you? Were any weapons seen at the stop? Remember, "hands up-don't shoot"?

Plus, no bail for what really amounts to a trespassing? Witnesses are in custody?

To much not answered, to many red flags,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yea, it stinks JR

I will always side with the law, always

I am assuming the officers were acting lawfully

If they were not, then badge or not, they were no longer officers of the law.

I don't know, wasn't there. I do know that when it comes to a fight, and testosterone, someone's gonna get shot and someone will find a reason later.

Everything happens for a reason. I just hope the word Martyr doesn't need to start showing up when talking about this man...That will mean things are slipping out of control.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2016, 10:57:43 AM »
Funny, as I was reading these posts... my mind was thinking "failed attempted martyrdom"... and then you basically alluded to the same thing.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2016, 02:31:01 PM »
When I worked I never 2nd guessed another LEO. I wasn't there so can't say I tell them.

Has to be video in this age. Also, with all the LEO on the scene someone will tell the truth. Plus where it happened was a setup by many accounts.

But, Martyr or not if he was walking towards them with hands in the open and no weapons seen there was no reason for what happen.

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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2016, 04:48:39 PM »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2016, 05:11:49 PM »
Hate to say it but pay heed to my signature,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2016, 08:17:52 PM »
Now I didn't like that one little bit...
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2016, 08:45:06 PM »
Ok, so you asked & now will receive. Click the linky & open up the post titled "mourning" then read the part about "martyr". So how deep is the rabbit hole gunna get?


http://christianmerc.blogspot.com/2016/01/mourning.html?m=1
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2016, 11:41:21 PM »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2016, 11:55:20 PM »
Soooo he gets out of the truck after evading, has his hands up, then looks like he starts reaching into his jacket or something...



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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2016, 11:56:31 PM »
Or maybe he was shot & clutching the wound? Sound would definitely help.....  You see him spin around about the same time.

Also when he veers off the road it looks as if he hit or almost hit a trooper with the truck.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 11:59:35 PM by stlaser »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2016, 11:58:04 PM »

Or maybe he was shot & clutching the wound? Sound would definitely help.....  You see him spin around about the same time.

Yeah that is a really good point


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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2016, 08:09:37 AM »
He certainly didn't do anything to help his cause by fleeing and trying to run through the road block

Someone has audio but since he veered off the road, it's not likely that we get better footage unless someone had a body cam

Their radio com traffic at the time of the shooting would be revealing.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2016, 08:18:19 AM »
He certainly didn't do anything to help his cause by fleeing and trying to run through the road block

Someone has audio but since he veered off the road, it's not likely that we get better footage unless someone had a body cam

Their radio com traffic at the time of the shooting would be revealing.

When they first get pulled over they have their arms & heads out the window. According to the girls testimony they wanted to talk to the sheriff in the next county over who guaranteed them safe passage to walk away. Looks from video as there may have been couple shots before they started fleeing.

Driving high rate of speed with road block setup on blind curve. Driver ditches it to avoid hitting vehicles in road block. Driver sees armed officers & exits vehicles with hands up. I think maybe to draw armed men away from women in truck. Note he didn't exit with gun drawn & shooting. Last time I checked hands up meant surrender but it's hard to tell what happened after he exited truck.

Also worth noting, video was released two days after shooting. Plenty of time to be professionally edited. I do not trust anything that comes from these people. May I remind you of fast and furious or Benghazi just to name a couple......
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2016, 09:26:36 AM »
My thoughts of this so far is that Mr. Lavoy seemed like (clutching at a wound or not might have been drawing a weapon.
The caveat to all this is:

Is this the real film????? Or do we have a Kenyan with a dead man's social security number elected president coverup?

Overlying problem is that we the people no longer really trust our government. Just look at the testimony of the wife of the adjacent farmer who was threatened and brutalized for no real good reason.

On many occasions we had Taliban on their knees in a circle while we awaited the Army to collect them. We could have kicked in a few teeth or beat one half to death just to relieve tensions, but we never did. Once they became non combatants they were just 150 pound bags with legs. I may have wanted to just shoot one out of anger, but I/we never did. Although having emotions, we kept them in check and ultimately respected our enemy.

Is the ATF, and BLM agents doing the same? Or do they feel empowered to kick a little butt here and there just for sport?
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
He was on the brakes Hard....definately wasn't trying to run the roadblock.

I'm trying to figure out why they lit that truck up the way they did.

Got it....Those feds must be distant cousins of the ones who took down Bonnie and Clyde.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2016, 10:15:48 AM »
If the 18 year old girl is correct in her account they had snipers in the trees. Stated when she got out of vehicle she saw them & they had roughly 20 red lasers on each person. Now, she is 18 & extremely excited / traumatized at this point so is she exaggerating? Yeah, most likely but making stuff up about men in trees doubtful. This would point to an ambush. Add in her prior account that when they were initially pulled over & driver had head & arms out window someone took a pot shot at driver & missed. That's when they then sped off. To me this sounds like it played out how they wanted it except that a few witnesses survived after the hail of bullets into the truck. So at some point some one called off the shooting. She also stated no one on buddy's side ever pulled a weapon.
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2016, 11:29:45 AM »
I really hope you're wrong about your theory

If you are right, people will feel all those involved will have to go down
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2016, 12:07:56 PM »
Ammon Bundy's latest response via his lawyers website.


http://arnoldlawfirm.com/ammon-bundy/
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2016, 12:48:36 PM »
The video is hard to watch knowing the end. Why was the drone circling? Now a heli would keep circling, it was not a winged drone for sure.

That is a classic high risk stop. 2-3 vehicles stagered, doors open for cover. I saw someone cuffed at the first stop. Didn't see him exit the vehicle but saw them walking him around SOP. I saw hands out the windows but it seemed to drag out confirming they were probably trying to negotiate something as stated. Most HR stops are over fast.

Then I saw them drive off, looked more to get away as they stayed on their side of the road even though they were moving good. I had seen the road block in the video earlier.

When he got there it was on a sweeping turn on he braked to avoid and did hit someone. Heat of the moment he has just tried to kill a cop. But he jumps out hands in the air I would bet to confirm not being ordered to do so. He does not run, hands up and his arms go down and it looks like he may have something in his hand, can't say for sure. In the LEO's head (they are armed, will defend themselves if need be, just fled a high risk stop, hit an LEO at the road block)
I see just 2 LEO's close in, but if one of them shoot, the others will unload possibly. I also see the victim and some taken out of the truck were painted with a large footprint meaning lots of lasers from many directions.

I don't see them rittle the truck with bullets, but notice the front passenger window shot out. The LEOs do not look like they are shooting, but staying behind cover. When they clear the truck, I do notice smoke coming from what looks like the engine area. Was that from gunfire to disable or just being in snow from the wreck?

Things I noticed. Almost no vehicles were marked, strange. Sure a red light is all that is needed but looks like some wearing jeans the locals were on hand.
Why was there someone up in the trees if it was a roadblock, or did he head up there as they were told of the approach? Then more appear later,,,,,,,,,,
No warning signs up for the check point if that is what is was, but see them in the trucks?

True, is this the real video. In 2 days you can do anything, could have even used the same vehicles.

From an LEO stance it looks text book but there will always be questions and even more now.

Now if someone really did sqeeze off a shot or more at the first stop, this opens up new issues as you are allowed to defend yourself. They didn't shot back but ran.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 12:56:02 PM by JR »
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Re: Oregon, things may start to get sporty
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2016, 01:00:14 PM »
JR, I saw snow jumping from the passenger side as they shot, so I would say "riddled" might not be an exaggeration....might not.
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