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Offline JR

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2016, 11:55:39 AM »
Sounds like Dons garage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2016, 10:53:51 AM »
Not a lot exciting happening on the Crew Cab... but progress is being made. I am parting out other trucks to get pieces I desire/need and spending time thinking about the build "direction" while gathering parts.

Also some boxes arrived from Yukon gear, so I now have enough pieces to toss together a front 60 with all new components...so watch for that soon. I found a Detroit on my shelf for a Dana 60 , also a ARB air locker... still debating which I will use. I prefer the Detroit in most instances, but the ARB has some attractive qualities for this build in the front axle... still debating. I also found a Dana 60 power lok new in the box...forgot I had that LoL I rounded up some new inner axles, new 35 spline outer axles also off one of my shelves, so I may modify them for full circle C clips and see how long they last.

I was going to build this truck with 3.73 gears. More I think about it, the more tempted I am to run 4.10 or 4.56...this is partially why I haven not yet selected a front axle to build from my collection. More on this latter in the build....

That's it for now....




Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2016, 11:38:15 AM »
I vote 4:10s.... I think you'll regret 4:56s, even w/37s or 8s....but it's not mine. :)

You'll have plenty of torque...
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2016, 12:02:17 PM »
I would like to see him run a deeper gear set then add on a gear vendor overdrive unit. He has the wheel base & this gets him best of all worlds. Low gearing & highway drive ability.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2016, 02:06:26 PM »
I would like to see him run a deeper gear set then add on a gear vendor overdrive unit. He has the wheel base & this gets him best of all worlds. Low gearing & highway drive ability.

YES! but taller gears like 255s....he could set a decent time at Bonneville on the way out west!! haha
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Offline JR

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2016, 05:12:54 PM »
But it is not all Salt Flats,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I say the 4.10 too and ARB, The others are really happier in a rear axle.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2016, 05:43:56 PM »
I'm all about detroits, I think Tate's grizzly might be a good option too but never ran one honestly. My buddy has raced the same front ox locker for years with no issues from it.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2016, 05:50:53 PM »
I've got air, but only for the front end. haven't developed the Zip Locker for the 14t yet. Grizzlies are consistent, reliable, and passive. my overall choice for duty specific vehicle applications.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2016, 08:41:00 PM »
Passive? I don't think I want a locker that is passive do I? ???
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2016, 09:29:51 PM »
LoL Tate... my plan is to upgrade to some of you folks alloy shafts once completed, and see if I can ruin them. You know, proper farmer durability testing. I think keeping it geared 3.73 or 4.10 will help a little in the front ends durability struggle.

This a Pro Expo build... the focus is on stickers and expensive lights dun't ya know.  :D

And autocross slicks....jus sayin...
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2016, 10:10:12 PM »
the stuff that he just has 'on the shelf' is what most ppl have to save up to buy. and you can bet for dag on sure they know they have it. hahah

Offline JR

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2016, 10:14:13 PM »
Well, his videos prove he is not light on the right peddle.
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2016, 09:19:23 AM »
Well gentleman...

The goal here is a truck which does not need 1st gear around town. A truck that can cruise 80mph, and a truck that can idle around off road with no drama. The Ramcharger is "too low" for 2nd gear to be useful in city driving. Problem is, 3rd gear in the NV4500 is a smidgen too high. Which means 4.56 gears are ok...but unless I run a true 40" tire, driving it in the city will blow. Because with 37" rubber and 4.56's, the Ramcharger is stuck at 70-75mph cruise speeds, and using third gear to start in town. A better combination would be 4.88 and a gear vendors... but that is the weakest combination.

Go the other way and run 3.55 gears, and a Magnum box may work... But you'd then make 2nd gear possibly a bit tall for dead stop starts. I run this combo (38Xml's 3.55 gears and a Getrag 5spd) It works, but less than ideal.

So I keep coming back to the 4.10's and 38's as pretty much identical gearing as a stock 3.55/5spd Dodge was when brand new. I don't need a Gear Vendors then, and I don't need a Magnum box or doubler box either. Keeping it simple is how we build 85mph tractors here in Nebraska.  ;D   Another possible advantage... you can find 4.10 ring and pinions for the 60 and 14 bolt almost anywhere used if needing one and far from home on some adventure. (think Alaska or Deep Canadian trips) The 4.10 front 60 pinion will be a bit stronger than a 4.56 also... and well, it's going to get 4.10 gears to start. I can add a doubler if it is too "tall" off road, but I think it will be fine.

As for the ARB/Detroit discussion.....

I have always run a Detroit in both axles and been largely 100% happy with that combination on and off road. The only downside to a Detroit in my eyes is somewhat increased rear tire wear, and the habit of breaking the dog clutches if you bust an axle. The latter being the MOST annoying when it happens in a front axle. The rear 14bolt I intend to run rarely fail..... can't say that about the front Dana 60.

So... because Tate can't whistle me up a locker Yukon doesn't build yet (ZIP LOCKER FOR A 14 BOLT) I will be running a rear Detroit. I also have like 3 of these for a 14 bolt laying around...so may as well use one LoL

The real debate is the front axle. If I run a ARB in the front, I will enjoy it everywhere except off road. A front "spool" is about the dumbest thing I have ever seen used offroad. Let me elaborate....

Buy a front air locker...then you need a Hydraulic assist steering, then you need Moly axles and some exotic U joints you can't use in a snow storm on the freeway...or I suppose you can buy RCV's and brag around the camp fire how you spent more on your front axle shafts than my bass boat cost..but yah I don't like front spools off road. I haven't even touched on the stress Hyd steering assist puts on knuckles, or frames, or well...who spools a axle that has to turn? Now the above said....

If you don't "need" to be locked very often up front off road... and you drive yr rig on the street a lot, a air locking diff looks more attractive. My debate....how many times cruising around Moab or Colorado will I curse the Air locker?.... still debating. How many times in deep snow in the rockies, or mud in Alaska will I miss the Detroit? Still debating....

See if I did not have a ARB and a Detroit sitting on my workbench, I could justify calling Tate and buying a Grizzly locker for the front and it would not even be a discussion LoL  A lesson to you all.....do not collect traction aiding differentials.

Yesterday I spent 4 hours wet sanding and buffing a old safe. This may not sound like Dodge truck building... but the safe was in the way, and I wanted it sanded/buffed before I moved it to get to the Dodges frame LoL

Today's project.... find a snow commander 4.10 front 60 I know I have, just not sure which farm it's at LoL I have a 4.10 Front 60 here already, but I want the larger Dana 70 sized inner C's the snow commander axles have.

I also need to finish cleaning the work space so I can make a new mess.

I am also depressed a little, I had my mind set on a GLO front diff cover...but my fat front tie rod won't even come close to clearing it at full lock. In fact it's close with a stock cover. So...more deliberation I guess.














 

















Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2016, 03:43:33 PM »
Hey Norm,

you could just get one of these already rolling on 40's

http://expeditionportal.com/featured-vehicle-american-expedition-vehicles-ram-prospector/


Offline stlaser

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2016, 04:27:56 PM »
That's pretty nice..... :)
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2016, 04:38:34 PM »
I agree, just not the price tag!

Offline stlaser

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2016, 05:28:18 PM »
I agree, just not the price tag!

I already knew w/o looking that I wouldn't afford it but it's nice to dream.......
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2016, 05:41:27 PM »
I dunno Phill... it has too many wires, computers, and probably mall navigation. I do however like the color, but for me if I don't build it, I'd not enjoy it.

Besides, I fully intend to build my entire truck for what the suspension and snorkel cost on that one LoL


Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2016, 07:02:14 PM »
Well Norm, if you got this truck you could  find the closest Starbucks, you would have Mall Navigation to help you.  For 90K I would have a very hard time running it thru the brush or getting rock rash all over it. 

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2016, 10:20:30 PM »
if you're lifting it (which it sounds like you must.. for 38s and all) go ahead and do crossover/high steer. you're most likely doing crossover anyway, so why not just spring for an extra few bucks and get high steer arms, relocate tie rod to over the spring and get your GLO diff cover  ;D

it's what I'm doing.. which might also be an indicator as to not do that.  :-\ hahaha

OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2016, 11:41:08 PM »
I found the local Starbucks when Duane stopped to visit. Nice enough place all in all, but they don't have my fav coffee. Which is any my wife brews LoL

Yah at 90K I am just not feeling it.

As for the high steer. It doesn't fit with 4" of lift at all. It's just a personal thing (no facts, just opinion) but.... I also feel loading the pass side knuckle above the axles center-line puts undo stress on the upper king pin bushing, the knuckle it's self, and especially the studs. I am not 100% convinced cross over steering is even a good idea, despite having run it for many years on many Dodges. I will most likely run it again...but I am not happy with how they almost require a track bar if you have flexy springs.





Offline swbhobie16

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2016, 05:37:00 AM »
you tell me all this now.. now that I'm eyeballs deep in crossover setup. it's a springless conversion, with new bronze kingpin bushings. so.. im hoping.. it'll be fine for what we are doing. if not.. guess I'll slap a track bar on it.

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2016, 08:04:00 AM »
On a old Dodge, a cross over steering swap is like night and day in how they drive "usually" As in they turn sharper, steer equally in both directions, whats not to love?

The issues crop up when the springs get soft enough to flex well. They start to "twist" under certain hard steering loads that make for some quirky driving at times in some combinations. Also side to side flex in the shackle is extremely noticeable., and increases with shackle length. In a mild short lift, with new heavier shackles it's not usually a issue. But in some cases with a spring that uses a fair amount of it's movement at road speeds, you can create some profound bump steer.

Like anything, one modification leads to another and so on.... frame strength at the steering box...the debate, should you box the frame near the box or triangulate and well it starts a snowball....

Offline stlaser

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2016, 09:25:07 AM »
Steering, ain't that the truth ^^^^^
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2016, 10:08:52 AM »
On a old Dodge, a cross over steering swap is like night and day in how they drive "usually" As in they turn sharper, steer equally in both directions, whats not to love?

The issues crop up when the springs get soft enough to flex well. They start to "twist" under certain hard steering loads that make for some quirky driving at times in some combinations. Also side to side flex in the shackle is extremely noticeable., and increases with shackle length. In a mild short lift, with new heavier shackles it's not usually a issue. But in some cases with a spring that uses a fair amount of it's movement at road speeds, you can create some profound bump steer.

Like anything, one modification leads to another and so on.... frame strength at the steering box...the debate, should you box the frame near the box or triangulate and well it starts a snowball....

shooting for stock dodge length shackles, with factory CUCV springs and add a leaves. so it's going to basically be a factory setup with add a leaves. nothing super flexy or high. so.. I'm hoping the side shift and bump steer is minimal if at all. we shall see.. once it's starts moving down the road. hahah

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2016, 11:35:53 AM »
Norm I saw a build thread recently where a guy cut his fenders both on the cab and bed to stuff much larger tires into the build but he didn't want to go all Bigfoot lift on it. It looked "almost" stock and took a second to figure out what he had done. He did a good job of following basically the same lines for thr cutouts as stock just made the "holes" larger. He did have some adjustments to make steering wise iirc but it ultimately allowed him to use much taller tires without significant drive train changes.

If I could only get my mind to work I might be able to find it for ya. But it was a month or so ago so it might as well be 30 years ago sorry.  ::) But I think you get what he did. It was a cool solution and avoided so many probs with big lifts.

So a little snooping and I found it again!

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/24653-Project-Doitall-Dodge

He starts chopping fenders in the first few pages (so its not like you have to go through all 90 pages. ha!)

He's running 325/85r16 Michelin XML with no lift kit. Not sure what he decided for gears but I think it came out pretty good.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:01:43 PM by Wilbur »

OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2016, 07:19:12 AM »
Ah yah Wilbur....I myself run those same tires on one of my other trucks with stretched fenders and no lift. Where the issue with these Dodges crops up is, you need a bit of lift to get some upward suspension travel or the ride/performance is punishing.

I think it will end up being custom front springs that relocate the axle forward 1.5" and some heavily modified inner fenders. That worked fairy well on my Wife's Ramcharger...

I am trying to get this project off the ground...but every time I turn around Patch demands more attention. The last thing I need is two projects going at once, but it's looking like that may be how it works out.

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2016, 12:35:37 PM »
Sheesh you say that like you need sleep occasionally or sumthin' .....ha.


Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #78 on: May 16, 2016, 03:22:36 PM »
Hello, anyone in here? :pokefarmer
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #79 on: May 16, 2016, 07:16:47 PM »
Well I could give you excuses why not much is happening...I could sum it up easily by saying, retirement is more work than a career.

Stay tuned something is bound to happen soon....

OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2016, 09:34:11 AM »
The UPS man is supposed to arrive today with some needed parts. So this afternoon I have to decide which truck we are building...and then assuming Don gets Square D running yet today, I can then begin this project properly.


Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2016, 09:59:47 AM »
The UPS man is supposed to arrive today with some needed parts. So this afternoon I have to decide which truck we are building...and then assuming Don gets Square D running yet today, I can then begin this project properly.


Cool...Its off to the races!
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2016, 10:12:31 PM »
Well UPS didn't arrive (roads are muddy) but I did track him down in town this evening, so we have parts.

I spent a chunk of the day retro-cobbling a old parts washer I scored for peanuts. Nothing hours of scrapping flushing and re flushing a dozen times didn't make functional. So now our shed has a parts cleaner. I think I will rig up a 55 gallon drum tomorrow with diesel fuel for soaking the nasty parts before contaminating my nice new spendy parts cleaning fluid.

Work on the truck didn't happen...because I have yet to commit to any one truck LoL


Offline swbhobie16

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2016, 06:16:34 AM »
Work on the truck didn't happen...because I have yet to commit to any one truck LoL

just do them both..?  ;D

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2016, 07:26:16 AM »
I fell out of my chair....

UPS....new parts???
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 07:27:11 AM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline JR

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2016, 10:29:50 AM »
Yeah, Kate seems to get into these fast ans works about as hard as you from your reports.

Half the time or both,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo
« Reply #86 on: May 19, 2016, 09:55:22 AM »
 It has begun..I drug the crew cabs "shell" to the general shop area. Evaluation and a game plan are next.


OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #87 on: May 19, 2016, 12:23:29 PM »
Well I stopped to have a sandwich and thought I'd share the evaluation of the crew cab...

The areas I was concerned with were the drivers side floor/b-pillers and the roof (crews suffer from roof rust issues) as well as just how much work this will be. 

The starting point


Rear seat floor area...petty much all original paint yet. The truck had a rubber floor mat with a jute backing per USAF specs I guess. The rear floor mat had no jute backing so no moisture ever got trapped.



The pillar between the front and rear doors...this area had almost no paint OEM so it hd some surface rust...small area of light pitting but the seams are dry and solid so.....



The driver side floor area....we can work with this I feel.



I took a wire wheel to the rocker panel/floor seam area and dug out all the seam sealer. Dodge used a seam sealer that attracted moisture so these areas usually rust badly. I was happy to see this one is still nice and dry.

If you look you can see the less than nice rocker replacement it had at one time. Since we have owned it since about 1998, it must have been done before that.



The last real evidence it was a USAF rig....










Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #88 on: May 19, 2016, 12:26:24 PM »
Heck, Norm, that looks great!
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #89 on: May 19, 2016, 12:42:44 PM »
So as of yesterday I was going to build a standard cab pickup from spare parts laying around. That was the plan....then my Mother stopped by on one of her (I am 75 I shouldn't drive at all really wander bout's) and Kay mentions to her we are about to build a truck. So out of the blue my Mom says "are you going to build that ugly green one our relative used to ride in when he was in the Air Force"  So I guess it turns out that back about 1998 this fella (I think he's a Cousins husband) who was stationed at SAC and a commander of some sort in the Looking Glass program recognized it was the very truck he rode in by the crooked placement of the flight line sticker I posted above and the dent it has in the pass side rear door that he apparently was involved in. Small world... and funny she never mentioned this before...So anyway sentiment got me and we are building the Crew Cab....

OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2016, 12:54:21 PM »
Thanks Don...I guess sitting in a mostly dry shed for 10 or so years didn't seem to hurt it too much. Wonder if qualifies as a barn find if you find it in your own barn?

The plan at present: Remove the dash *ugh* Remove all the stuff hanging on the firewall, and then the fun begins. It's in good enough shape I can't justify hauling it 120 miles and having it media blasted. It's very awkward to move around and you shouldn't lift these Crews by the roof and a sling so I suppose I will break out the DA, and the blaster and selectively sand/blast it the hard way at home here.

My plan is to do the floors inside, underneath, get some epoxy on them and spray color on the floor and door jams and hopefully by then I have a frame with some axles under it waiting. The finish paint and beautification can wait..outside storage is risky in hail season so getting it inside is my main focus...so that's this weekends fun.


Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #91 on: May 19, 2016, 12:55:55 PM »
You just motivated me Norm...I think I'll get out and do something to SquareD!
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #92 on: May 19, 2016, 01:08:08 PM »
LoL That's good to read Don....now all I need is someone to motivate me. I dislike body/paint work immensely and to make it worse I have to drive 60miles for supplies which would maybe be no big deal if I had a clue what I was needing.

I suppose, I have procrastinated over a decade...time to build this thing.




Offline JR

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #93 on: May 19, 2016, 01:22:22 PM »
Looks pretty good for a 35 year old cab.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #94 on: May 19, 2016, 01:49:12 PM »
That thing looks like a great start.

I have a cattle prod if you need some motivation.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #95 on: May 19, 2016, 02:23:26 PM »
I was just talking to Duane this very morning about his Crew-Cab. If he doesn't start that thing soon, I am going to buy it from him!
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #96 on: May 19, 2016, 04:29:22 PM »
I was just talking to Duane this very morning about his Crew-Cab. If he doesn't start that thing soon, I am going to buy it from him!

Shouldn't you, you know, finish D2 to the point she can move under her own power? THEN start on Double C.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #97 on: May 19, 2016, 04:37:01 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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OldKooT

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #98 on: May 19, 2016, 06:28:42 PM »
Well it's 5pm it's going to rain, and I have bare metal everywhere. (No rain until wed next week they claimed) So I covered it up with a tarp and cleaned up the mess I made.

Progress since noon is as follows: I stripped the assorted junk off the firewall and boxed it up for safe keeping.

I ground out a bunch more seam sealer on the inside of the cab floor. I took the DA and some 80 grit to the cowl area and found a couple miniature cracks starting. I also bought a gallon of epoxy primer and assorted other crap to make it spray-able. I also grabbed 150 sheets of 80 grit and the same of 320 to restock my supply.

I then had to fix a tire on the the 5th avenue and some other daily chores so that slowed me down a little. But after supper I will go sit and stare at it and come up with a plan of how to get this thing done how I want it.

I had not counted on needing to remove every single bit of seam sealer...but if I want it to not rust in the future, I will need to remove it all.

Tomorrow weather permitting I think we will do some media blasting of the inside cab floors. If not...I will do something else.





 

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pro Expo--build
« Reply #99 on: May 19, 2016, 06:45:26 PM »
Koot, 3M makes a paintable seam  sealer called drip check. FYI
That's what I used on my 73 Jimmy when the bed/sides were replaced.


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