Hide Site/Bug out Site construction thread, Part 3

[Flyin6]

A better perspective:

[Flyin6]

The sled dog helped with the general layout and kept things safe by checking the stability of the soil around the excavation.

[Bigdave_185]

Looks like a good weather work day don. 


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[cudakidd53]

Looking really different Don!  Cannot imagine where the extra plastic jugs are coming from!?!  Hope you beat Mr. Freeze, cause replacing busted RV Hose/Fittings stinks!

[Flyin6]

Looking really different Don!  Cannot imagine where the extra plastic jugs are coming from!?!  Hope you beat Mr. Freeze, cause replacing busted RV Hose/Fittings stinks!

I don't think I will beat Mr. Winter, but I might be able to catch up if I get some good work days.

So who knows how to calculate what size block wall needs how many blocks?

[stlaser]

Looking really different Don!  Cannot imagine where the extra plastic jugs are coming from!?!  Hope you beat Mr. Freeze, cause replacing busted RV Hose/Fittings stinks!

I don't think I will beat Mr. Winter, but I might be able to catch up if I get some good work days.

So who knows how to calculate what size block wall needs how many blocks?

Said block is X so LxW equals feet or inches etc, said wall LxW equals feet or inches, divide smaller number into larger one. Am I missing something?

Assuming you are using concrete block & mortar, a simple way to "cheat" for those of us non masons is to cut a bunch of small 1" lengths of rebar the diameter of the mortar joint you need. So when you're stacking & setting wall you just lay them in between rows. This way if your mortar is a little wet the wall won't sag on you. Not saying the pilot isn't a skilled block layer but it's a very easy way to set a wall level....

[Flyin6]

Looking really different Don!  Cannot imagine where the extra plastic jugs are coming from!?!  Hope you beat Mr. Freeze, cause replacing busted RV Hose/Fittings stinks!

I don't think I will beat Mr. Winter, but I might be able to catch up if I get some good work days.

So who knows how to calculate what size block wall needs how many blocks?

Said block is X so LxW equals feet or inches etc, said wall LxW equals feet or inches, divide smaller number into larger one. Am I missing something?

Assuming you are using concrete block & mortar, a simple way to "cheat" for those of us non masons is to cut a bunch of small 1" lengths of rebar the diameter of the mortar joint you need. So when you're stacking & setting wall you just lay them in between rows. This way if your mortar is a little wet the wall won't sag on you. Not saying the pilot isn't a skilled block layer but it's a very easy way to set a wall level....

Good one Shawn!

I found a good calculator and I am shocked at the task I am looking at

The structure I envision will be 14 feet wide and 16 feet deep and have 8 foot walls. The front will have what amounts to a 8 foot double door. The math is saying I need 488 16X8 blocks!!!!!!

Yea, that's like 500!!!!

Then 15 bags of mortar mix, 1.7 tons of sand and another 6 yards of concrete to pour the footers and fill the blocks solid.

I am estimating around $1650 to put up that wall!!!

Whoa, big cost and 500 blocks!!!

You should see my fingers now. No skin on two of them. I keep getting red stuff all over my sunday go to meetin' clothes, the truck, wife's dress, bible, food, toothbrush, dog, you name it.

What am I going to look like after 500 blocks

And, talking to Josh, the guy who is trucking in gravel starting tomorrow, I will be spending $450 a load for 26 tons of the stuff and I need several loads.

There goes several thousand buckeroos!

[Flyin6]

Which leads me to another question

I came to the block wall conclusion before knowing the price.

I had actually conceived another much cheaper building technique.

Hang with me for a moment here, I'm going to stretch your building code limited imagination for a moment.

Down here you find locust and Cedar logs in the ground everywhere. They last about 80% of a good forever. Point numba 2: I was trying to keep the project as inexpensive as possible, with re-purposing things, and using old technologies

Point three: I have lotza pesky cedar trees.

I was thinking of standing up a row of cedar tree trunks which I would chain saw cut into more or less, flatter surfaces to create my box structure. I would wrap it with felt paper, add in drainage tile covered with gravel, then place sheets of that roofing panel all weather wave-form stuff onto the outside. Then back fill with dirt, and using a chain saw, cut the roof pitch into each side and mail on a standard 2 X 6 roof rafter, OSB sheeted, steel panel covering to complete the structure.

It would not look great on the inside, but, by golly, it should remain viable for decades, which is all I really need anyway.

So, anyone onboard with this goof-ball plan, or should I lay off the street pharmaceuticals?

[cudakidd53]

Sounds like you'd be okay with dropping the trailer into the existing basement.......snakes, nasty critters and moldy, slimy dank smells!  Not your best sounding plan there Don- functional, but I don't see your lovely wife snuggling up in there!

[stlaser]

Couple thoughts, instead of tar paper & roofing material on outside of walls why not a tar solution like they used on old wooden boats? Second thought, shipping container $2500 or less anywhere in the country, take trailer and pickup then unload with sarge. Also look at military surplus auctions near Dayton, they used to sell smaller ones like half length......

[Flyin6]

Couple thoughts, instead of tar paper & roofing material on outside of walls why not a tar solution like they used on old wooden boats? Second thought, shipping container $2500 or less anywhere in the country, take trailer and pickup then unload with sarge. Also look at military surplus auctions near Dayton, they used to sell smaller ones like half length......

You know, Shawn...That just might be worth a look.

Not supposed to bury them but I could reinforce the walls

But not much height for mo-biggerer water tanks

But I think I will look into it, thanks!

[stlaser]

Bury it under ground, weld in cross bracing (think scrap steel from junk yard) it can be bought cheap in length & coated with good epoxy paint. Then if you need it taller for tanks use lumber build up taller side walls & cut holes in top. Slap roof on a viola!

Can be built way faster too!

[stlaser]

Epoxy 2 part paint called Tnemec, we used to use it on water & sewage steel tanks & parts. They use it on elevator floors. It's piss proof, being that if you're stranded in elevator & you gotta go. Urine is extremely acidic, this stuff is tough. I've hit it once cured with 5 # hammer & never nicked the paint....

[Flyin6]

Just checked around

Seems $1250 give or take for a 20 footer

I like that...Gotta admit, I never thought about that

I think I like the idea. Inexpensive, and most importantly, FAST!

[stlaser]

Coat the exterior (after you weld in bracing) with that epoxy paint & it will last forever. We used those handheld electric airless sprayers from HD to spray the stuff FYI.

Back to the rebar & laying block, blacksmith I know built a chimney in his steel shop that way around 25' high so it works well. Something to think about if you ever build a proper house on said property......

[Flyin6]

Coat the exterior (after you weld in bracing) with that epoxy paint & it will last forever. We used those handheld electric airless sprayers from HD to spray the stuff FYI.

Back to the rebar & laying block, blacksmith I know built a chimney in his steel shop that way around 25' high so it works well. Something to think about if you ever build a proper house on said property......

I think I dreamt about this all night

Talk about a convoluted interconnected mess...kind of like the Hillary candidacy...

OK, to work I need somewhere to stay, the camper

To stay in the camper I need heat and water

To get water I'll need someway to keep it from freezing up ten minutes after I leave on day three

To keep it from freezing I could use Propane, as in my 500 or 1000 gal tank

But I also need a wee bit of electricity to power the thermostat and something that I invariably left on when I left

So a solar cell and a battery you say?

Not so fast, did you consider the ten consecutive cloudy days where there isn't much solar electrons being hatched?

Yea, so solar, at least a smallish solar system is out. A larger solar/wind system and batteries is much mo expensive

Then there's the question of keeping the water tank from freezing, but we aren't even considering that yet!

To get this working I'll still have to provide some dependable electron source, some water that isn't frozen and leaking through a bunch of cracks in chinese made PVC in my Indiana constructed paper mache camper.

Already too complex to wrap your Mark 1 brain around half way into cup Numba 1 of Java?

Yea meeee 2!

Then the light bub came on

Why donot I just get some contractor to dig the trench and hook up the electricity to the shed, then run a line out to the camper, then stick one of those Northern Tool oil heaters in it and just leave it on at say 48 degrees.

I get a bigger electric bill, which I can manage, but I keep stuff going through the cold months ah' comin'

Then I can get all the rest of the stuff done over time and disconnect from the grid when I get the holes I dug filled with all manner of things

Yup, that's what I'll do...Kool!

[Bear9350]

Do you really need running water during the winter?  Seems like an awful lot of work for something I think you could manage to get by without.  Every winter a group of us head up to the cabin for a week for deer season.  No running water there.  Truck in enough fresh water to drink and do some dishes.  Heat the water up on the stove or in your case you could use the microwave (no electricity at the cabin either).  Warm some more water up to wash yourself up at the end of the day so you don't stink to bad.  Sure at the end of the week you might stink a little and be ready to take a warm shower but its not that bad.  It just seems like a lot or work for a temporary fix that isn't really needed.  If your down for an extended period, or you have the women down and they just need to take a shower it wouldn't take that long to blow the pipes out with air and then dump a little anti-freeze in the p-traps or a few sinks.

Unless of course you have a larger plan for this structure in the future I am not aware of it seems like a lot of work and wasted time that could be better spend doing something else.

[Flyin6]

Do you really need running water during the winter?  Seems like an awful lot of work for something I think you could manage to get by without.  Every winter a group of us head up to the cabin for a week for deer season.  No running water there.  Truck in enough fresh water to drink and do some dishes.  Heat the water up on the stove or in your case you could use the microwave (no electricity at the cabin either).  Warm some more water up to wash yourself up at the end of the day so you don't stink to bad.  Sure at the end of the week you might stink a little and be ready to take a warm shower but its not that bad.  It just seems like a lot or work for a temporary fix that isn't really needed.  If your down for an extended period, or you have the women down and they just need to take a shower it wouldn't take that long to blow the pipes out with air and then dump a little anti-freeze in the p-traps or a few sinks.

Unless of course you have a larger plan for this structure in the future I am not aware of it seems like a lot of work and wasted time that could be better spend doing something else.

I think I get a lot dirtier than you guys when you are hunting. FOr example, last week, after getting covered with chain saw dust and dirt, I was crawling in the dirt and mud under the building doing wiring.

I think getting clean and sleeping soundly in a clean bed is essential.

Plus on the odd nights, I get the boyz and the wife, so the camper needs to run like an apartment

And in the bigger picture, I see more than just me making their way there.

In the end I hope to use the camper for a family, the shed for another, and have two in the main house, or possibly three for down right survival, or a great thanksgiving or Christmas weekend.

[Dawg25385]

Hey what about railroad ties for your wall?


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[Bear9350]

So long term you plan to keep the trailer down there but I assume you would plan to have running water plumbed to it?  Unless I am missing something it seems to me you are building this structure for the sole purpose of water storage that you probably plan to upgrade in the future and no longer need.  Seems like wasted time and money to me.

I would think you could have the camper winterized in less than 5 minutes if you had a compressor handy to blow the lines out.  Sure it is 5 minutes every time you leave but you would be further ahead when you think about how much other work you could get done instead of spending a few weeks building and underground structure.

What is keeping you from getting the shed livable for winter?  You already have a heat source in there now.  You could throw the few grand you need to spend on your hole and put it into the shed and it seems to me like you would be further ahead.   That's just my opinion of the situation.

If the underground structure does have a use in the long term maybe it makes sense to do it now. 

In the SHTF scenario there might not be the luxury of a nightly shower.  You could make it a good team building exercise/ learning experience. 

If a warm/ wet washcloth isn't enough to wipe away the grime and you need a hot shower to sleep comfortably either your not working hard enough or your starting to get a little soft I think. :P

[Bob Smith]

You do have a heat duct from the gas furnace going to the underbelly I would think. If so and you are using an oil filled heater to keep the inside from freezing, install a small fan to direct air to the cold air return of the gas furnace. Cover some of the heater vents so the warm air heads to the underbelly duct. Leave the cabinet doors open a bit where there is plumbing and hopefully that should keep the stuff down there from freezing unless it gets darn cold. You do still plan on putting some sort of skirting around the trailer for winter I hope.

[Flyin6]

You do have a heat duct from the gas furnace going to the underbelly I would think. If so and you are using an oil filled heater to keep the inside from freezing, install a small fan to direct air to the cold air return of the gas furnace. Cover some of the heater vents so the warm air heads to the underbelly duct. Leave the cabinet doors open a bit where there is plumbing and hopefully that should keep the stuff down there from freezing unless it gets darn cold. You do still plan on putting some sort of skirting around the trailer for winter I hope.

I do plan to skirt it up after I get the plumbing installed and a conduit electric feed line from the shed.

The underground structure will house a water storage tank which just might suffice as the main unit for the camper, the shed, and the house to come.

I currenty have calls out to three folks on Craigslist selling a 2100 gal, a 2400, and a 5,000 gallon tank. One to two of them would fit in the underground shed thing, but for the short term, just transfereing 40 gal at a time into the belly tank of the camper will keep things hoppin' at the stead!

Oh, and good ideas on sending heat downward...darned good idea!

[Bigdave_185]

Build walls around the camper to keep the heat inside


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[Flyin6]

Build walls around the camper to keep the heat inside


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No, not doing that

It is perched on that hill with a beautiful view. It will be great to sit inside of it and drink the morning quoffee while gazing out over the valley

Oh, and just got a call back on a great water tank...Northwesco 2400 gallon 150" X 90" X 52" always stored inside, 5 years old, $1200...

[Wilbur]

Don if you're going there in the winter will you need a plow to get the road open? Not sure how much snow you guys get there.

See? I can spend your money almost as darn fast as you can?!!  :D

[Bob Smith]

Don, setting up a fan to move warmer air through the furnace to the underbelly was not my idea. That trick I learned from another RV forum some time ago, just passing along good information.

[TexasRedNeck]

I think you had it right Don. Run the electric and get it over with.   We plan for the worst but reality is you'll probably die of old age with your electric service functioning just fine.  Get that done first. Then take your time on the bunker. Even if Ken's girlfriend gets elected you got at least 5-10 years to get completely hardened.


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[Flyin6]

Don if you're going there in the winter will you need a plow to get the road open? Not sure how much snow you guys get there.

See? I can spend your money almost as darn fast as you can?!!  :D

We get cold and sometimes frequent snows, but not great accumulations. Maybe a foot or a bit more once or twice, but figure that I'd just wait that out anyway. It's not a big deal.

[Flyin6]

I think you had it right Don. Run the electric and get it over with.   We plan for the worst but reality is you'll probably die of old age with your electric service functioning just fine.  Get that done first. Then take your time on the bunker. Even if Ken's girlfriend gets elected you got at least 5-10 years to get completely hardened.


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In 5-10 years, I might be completely hardened! ;-))

[Flyin6]

So I hit pay dirt on two of those water tanks.

The 2400 gallon one is an indoor install 5 years old at $1200

And I got a call on a spun fiberglass tank with an interesting story. The gentleman who has possession of it says it is new, as in NEW. His company purchased it then discovered that it was too big to get into the building so they discarded it!

It is a brand new 5,800 gallon monster.

Yep another huge tank measuring 11 feet long (tall) and ten feet in diameter!!!!!!

Raises the question once again about how I might possibly haul the thing from north of Cincy to the farm.

If I can, well that would just solve all my problems. Almost 6,000 gallons would be one heck of a hot shower!

[stlaser]

Put it on the trailer & take back roads. Don't need no stinking permits...... FYI bulky tarps help hide the size especially if they are loose & flapping. Once hauled two large pane tanks from Daniel Boone national Forrest area of MO to NE IN ;)

Edit: & I drove the interstates too...... ;D

[Sammconn]

I'm sure you could abscond a hook to get it there...
Short of that Shawn has a pretty good idea.

[BobbyB]

So I hit pay dirt on two of those water tanks.

The 2400 gallon one is an indoor install 5 years old at $1200

And I got a call on a spun fiberglass tank with an interesting story. The gentleman who has possession of it says it is new, as in NEW. His company purchased it then discovered that it was too big to get into the building so they discarded it!

It is a brand new 5,800 gallon monster.

Yep another huge tank measuring 11 feet long (tall) and ten feet in diameter!!!!!!

Raises the question once again about how I might possibly haul the thing from north of Cincy to the farm.

If I can, well that would just solve all my problems. Almost 6,000 gallons would be one heck of a hot shower!

Lot's of water right there. As for hauling I'm sure you can find someone local who can haul it. Someone always needs some work.

[Flyin6]

Been off grid the past 5 days
Doing a little proof of concept
So far, so good
Lots of stuff completed
Closing in on being electrified
I'll be back in the chick blocks tomorrow, try to do a big update...

[Flyin6]

So, its been a full court press for me. Spent the past five days down there, came home last night and am leaving again in about two hours headed back down.

Breaking news is that winter is coming!

How did that happen?

So I am working full on trying to get the place electrified and the camper bedded in for the deep freeze. I plan to operate out of the RV all winter this time...no winterization for the kid.

Following the electric install which is well advanced, I will skirt up the camper in it's new location, figure out the water thing, insulate everything and when I'm satisfied, continue with the shed build out

Remember how I explained in the SquareD thread how all bones are interconnected and related?

Same rule applies here. To get the project moved along, I need to gravel in the whole area I will be using. Winter also begat mud!

[Flyin6]

This is the first 27 ton load going in on the freshly graded road

[Flyin6]

That product is known as dense grade, a material having 3/4" stone all the way down to dust. It is known to pack in well and provide for a great base for future over-layments

After spreading it some around the base rocks for the extending "Ranger-Wall" it looked like this

[Flyin6]

Some of those stones weigh more than 100 pounds! Or 1000 pounds...Possibly 10,000 pounds???

The stuff also coats shoes pretty well

[Flyin6]

While waiting on successive loads. I kept busy with mini projects.
The shed had done some settling of sorts. The floor joists moved as much as 1/2" away from the floor and wall plate, so i addressed that.

Using a 3 ton jack, and these nifty 5/16" structural screws, I put things right once more

[Flyin6]

Those screws really pulled in tight. Before loosening pressure I screwed the wall plate into the band board and when lowering the jack all was good with shed life

[Flyin6]

On the next load of gravel, the truck driver learned why I warn everyone not to venture down the "Road" to my place. A rock embedded in the side of the narrow escarpment sliced a big hole in the sidewall of one of his tires!

[Flyin6]

Nevertheless, DR from Insko trucking pressed on and laid a good pour up on the pad made for the camper

Pics show the end result after 22 tons of #57 gravel which I also spread with the tractor

[Flyin6]

Next up I set a 4X4 post for the electrical box which will feed power to the camper

[Flyin6]

All the while, I had been working on Ranger Wall, stretching it up to the north and building in the height as more and more Kentucky limestone yielded during the various excavations

[Flyin6]

Getting ready to move the camper

and

having some fun wreckin' stuff

[Flyin6]

I got the camper in just about when the next load of gravel showed up

This one was used to spread around the business end of the shed, again to avoid wading around in winter mud

[Flyin6]

This gravel really "Prettied" up things

[Flyin6]

I graveled in around Ranger's grave, the wood pile and future site of the new and improved fire pit

[Flyin6]

The Camper will be my home, for, I am guessing, the next year, while I build up the shed. I think it sited fairly well. The morning quoffee view is so nice

[Flyin6]

...And, no, the camper is not leveled out yet, just "approximated."

Now all the time I had been calling or meeting with various construction and electrical guys.

Good news is tomorrow bright and early, we start digging to lay in the conduit that gets me from the pole to my meter base.

While over at Lowes, I scored these two cool saw horses. Looking over them I added a few screws and a 2 X 6 sacrificial top