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Author Topic: Hide Site/Bug out Site construction thread, Part 3  (Read 130713 times)

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Offline cudakidd53

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Wow!  Lots to like everywhere you turn!
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Offline stlaser

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What are your fingers all tore up from?
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Nate

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Nice
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Offline KensAuto

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Man all of it looks great. Good job boss.


Shawn, he dug that trench by hand....didn't even have a shovel!!
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Offline Bear9350

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If/ when you install a second panel in a different building you would use the grounding bus there.  I have a 200 amp box in the basement of the house with power coming from the pole.  In the house neutrals and grounds go to the same bus. I buried a wire from the house to the detached garage.  There is a second 200 amp breaker box in the garage.  There the neutral goes to the main bus and the grounds would go to the bus you incorrectly installed.

Offline stlaser

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If/ when you install a second panel in a different building you would use the grounding bus there.  I have a 200 amp box in the basement of the house with power coming from the pole.  In the house neutrals and grounds go to the same bus. I buried a wire from the house to the detached garage.  There is a second 200 amp breaker box in the garage.  There the neutral goes to the main bus and the grounds would go to the bus you incorrectly installed.

Are you sure? My last shop same setup as you describe was not wired like that (meaning didn't have that extra grounding bar) but was fed from house main. I did however have a ground rod at the shop as well just a single not a double like the main feed panel.

Thinking out loud both are grounded to that same steel box (that is grounded to the ground rod) & with 120 it essentially acts as being double grounded anyhow. Why does it care where it's grounded to? Again I'm not an electrician but I've had inspections done on my work several times by licensed guys w/o issue.
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Offline Bear9350

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Honestly, I don't know.  That is just what my electrician told me to do.  When you install/ use the second bar there would also be a special set screw you would drive through the main neutral bar to ground it to the box.

Or maybe it is the other way around, you install the green set screw at the main panel an not the secondary.  That seems to make more sense but I'm not sure.  It has been a couple years since I did that work now.

A quick Google search tells you to bond the ground and neutral at the main but never to bond it at a secondary.

I was also told I needed two grounding rods at the garage just like I did at the house.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 09:19:22 AM by Bear9350 »

Offline stlaser

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Not sure on that whole grounding lug thing, two ground rods at shed is probably code. I do know that I had a conversation with an electrical savant (guy literally forgot more than most electrical engineers knew) once about ground rods. He said a lot of how those functions depends upon the soil type. Clay etc where I've always lived easily grounds out however he lived near Jacksonville FL for years where the soil was sand & they had issues with ground rods there.
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Offline KensAuto

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Had a guy tell me that the codes vary between areas. I guess in some places, you have to keep the neutral and ground bars seperate, in others you can drive that screw in to join them. I know it's another thing I'm not good at (household electrical)
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Offline Nate

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Maybe / hopefully dmaxdarren will drop a knowledge bomb on us all here in regards to proper electrical wiring configurations.
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Offline JR

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Finally caught up with this.

Great progress there Don, looks great.

Is there room in the conduit for more wire? Always good to oversize for future runs.

I think somewhere way in the front we discussed using shipping containers. With how they stack those things a few feet of dirt won't hurt it at all, just don't bury it 30-40 ft down! You could also fill the sides with gravels to promote drainage or pore cement too.

Are you going to brace that chimney? Sure don't want a wind taking  that out.

Those screws you used are the same I used on my beam across the stairs with the 4x4. Basically made a 4x8 up there.

As for the tanks and keeping water fluid, ever thought of running tubes like geo-thermal with a small pump? Both moving the water and keeping it warm solves a couple issues.

OK, take a breath,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Waste for the trailer, don't hook the waste right to the septic. You need to let the tanks fill, then drain to keep them from drying out (been there done that). Other wise you need to change all the drains to direct feed vs going into the tanks.

You have been a busy man, but why are the fingers raw?
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Offline Flyin6

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Copy on all that info.

Fingers pulling, bending, scraping and looping wire...Death from a thousand paper cuts and all that

Am allowing waste tanks to fill, then dump

Water: Once I back it into the bank and back fill, the tank will be a defacto 6-8 feet underground. Should remain upper 40's to mid 50's in there naturally.

Thinking of using a heated hose to get the water to the camper.

Plans for the camper winterization just took a huge turn. With my breaking my foot and now completely immobile, I may be in a bit of trouble to even get there to drain the water and antifreeze.
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Offline stlaser

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Plans for the camper winterization just took a huge turn. With my breaking my foot and now completely immobile, I may be in a bit of trouble to even get there to drain the water and antifreeze.

I'm sure with deer season in full swing Duane could take care of all that for you.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline JR

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It would take a long time to freeze all that. Underground at all will help.
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Offline Sammconn

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On the grounding and bonding topic, there are the national rules, and then there can be local ones as well. Depending on where and which panel, things are and can be different.
That is the short answer. Darren may have 'better' USA info, I'm going on how things are here.

Lots of progress, looking good.

Chief, on your foot and body unit, you're not a kid anymore...we seem to break easier with age.
Prayers for good news and a quick recovery.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 01:31:50 PM by Sammconn »
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline JR

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I will attest to taking time to heal as we get older,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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NEC says that when you run a sub panel you separate the neutral and ground and you should have a local ground with an 8ft copper coated rod driven into the ground and connected to the grounding buss in the panel.


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline stlaser

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Just a single ground rod?
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline TexasRedNeck

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As I recall, yes. Each sub panel should have its own ground rod


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline stlaser

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As I recall, yes. Each sub panel should have its own ground rod


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, knew the subs needed at least one. However, thought someone said earlier they needed two per sub like a main.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline TexasRedNeck

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That would be news to me Shawn. My mains at both houses only have one. Might depend on soil type?
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline stlaser

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Seem to recall first house I built needed two & they needed to be 8' or 10' apart in good grounding clay soil.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Flyin6

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On the grounding and bonding topic, there are the national rules, and then there can be local ones as well. Depending on where and which panel, things are and can be different.
That is the short answer. Darren may have 'better' USA info, I'm going on how things are here.

Lots of progress, looking good.

Chief, on your foot and body unit, you're not a kid anymore...we seem to break easier with age.
Prayers for good news and a quick recovery.
Whose not young?

I know you're not talkin about me!

I'll do fine...Just call this some unexpected training opportunity.

Getting that toe pulled back in place reminded me of the beatings at the SERE school!
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Offline Flyin6

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Just a single ground rod?
They required me to install two ground 8' ground rods. We just laid them into the ditch. From what I can find out you don't achieve a decent ground with the , ground for about 7 years. Takes some long term chemical reaction which creates an acidic reaction to properly "Ground" the thing.
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Offline Flyin6

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Well all this new found seat time has allowed me to research a host of stuff.

First up is the winterizing or making a 4-season home out of a camper.

I will be constructing a skirt from 2" foar insulation board which I will joint tape with aluminum duct tape and reinforce with a 2X2 and 2X4 frame.

Next I ordered all LED bulbs for the trailer to reduce electrical needs. Next I scored some vent covers and finally ordered some 3M window film. You attach that to the inside of the window frame, creating a air chamber which insulates those heat sinks.

Then onto the water thing. I am thinking about heat taping the pipes on the underside and purchasing this electrically heated water supply hose
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Offline JR

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I like the foam skirt idea, never crossed my mind!

FYI for the solar guys. My 4k watt system made just over 6k yesterday in the rain and clouds. This time of year is normally 10k as I have tree that blocks the direct sun until around 1400. Today it has made 3k already in with rain at 1400. A good day in the summer is 25k+ with the sun angle better.
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Offline Flyin6

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JR, is yours a grid tied system?

Or

Does it charge up a bank of batteries?

I spent the day reading about this stuff, and I now know a bunch more than I did before.

I see the need for some pretty hefty battery storage.

Batteries are pretty expensive, especially when you are talking dedicated Solar batteries or a fork lift battery.

So with 4-6 265 watt panels and a host of batteries, which after learning much more, I think I'll set up as a 48 volt system, I'll easily have 10K-15K in the system.

Now I plan to also have wind turbines. There is almost never not a breeze running across that ridge. So, plug in a couple 1500 watt generators spinnin' in the breeze and I think I could go off grid easily.
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Offline BobbyB

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If you build a house on there, you going to go the geothermal stuff or ?
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Flyin6

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If you build a house on there, you going to go the geothermal stuff or ?
No, I'd keep it simple
I think I'd use an outside wood burning boiler to heat with

I'd sink part of the house underground and go to simple AC to cool the above grade rooms.

Always considering the EMP aspect, I'd like to avoid too much reliance on electronics.

The Solar power stuff is pushing it, but I thought if I grounded it all well, and kept the control room in a sort of Faraday cage, I might beat a low level EMP event.
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Offline JR

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I have both. My current system is grid tie and shuts down when the grid is down, kinda stupid.

The system I am installing now ( I will do a thread) is a grid tie system but it has a 1500watt output when the system is down. It is an SMA inverter.

Neither do my any good at night, but I have 3 gens and am looking at some batteries for backup.

As for emp you can charge right off the panels, but it is not regulated. Both the panels and the batteries should not be affected by EMP. Just a diode and wires.

Maybe you should look at a trencher for the tractor to run some lines underground? Think of all the uses for that!
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Offline Flyin6

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Today Keith and I built "Henderson Range" a rifle and pistol range we put up on my property facing west

At the start of the day it was all Sarge as many more cedars met their demise
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Offline Flyin6

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Then after many hours of digging, pushing trees, and contouring and dressing with the box blade, the thing was all shaped in.

We built it big enough for around fifteen shooters. We cut in a flat spot, slightly below grade back maybe 15 feet from the berm for the close in pistol drills. The dirt berm is all tracked in and stands six feet tall and is at least that thick.

From here, we will punch a bunch of holes with the post hole auger and place 4" PVC about 4" proud of the ground. THat way, one can slide a 2 X 4 into the pvc tube, then staple their target or a piece of plywood to it.

I'll hang some steel plates here and there so that we can practice engaging multiple targets.

Why Henderson Range you ask?

All this was Keith's idea, to build this combo-range. He is a Marine. Archibald Henderson was the very first Marine in the US in the 1700's. We honor the Marine Corps with this range.

In addition to the pistol portion, we are building a table/rest with a roof back at almost exactly 200 meters. We will follow with a smaller backstop at 25 meters, and 100 meters for now. Keith wants to expand it to many targets with painted letter labels so an instructor can tell a shooter to engage Bravo, then Kilo then Juliet, then Sierra, and so forth to get some real exercise going on!

Gonna be fun!

Keith put the first rounds into the berm mauling some dirt clods with JHP 230gr .45 auto from a Glock 30
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Offline Flyin6

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The camera buggered up on me, so no mo' pics...sorry folks!

Anyway, the ball got pushed a long ways down the field today

The electrical wiring is complete and just awaiting inspection and hookup! Whew!

With that, I can keep the camper alive in the coming deep freeze (I hope).

As soon at this boot thing comes off, or I can actually walk again, then the skirt is going on to really help me keep old man winter at bay.
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Offline KeithB

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It was a great day of fellowship and work. More like fun instead of work. When you get to run equipment all day and have a finished product at the end, that's fun.
 Can't wait to get more done on the range then do some drills.

Offline Bob Smith

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Keith, are you saying you got to do the work along with trying to keep Don out of the way and from getting hurt?

Offline stlaser

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Keith, are you saying you got to do the work along with trying to keep Don out of the way and from getting hurt?

The way I hear it HH6 does this all the time....... just the way I heard it told  ;D
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Offline Nate

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well we already figured he has the old part going against him, then the pilot aspect is another ding, and now he is crippled from trying to show off for the youngins............whats next....ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Flyin6

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Keith, are you saying you got to do the work along with trying to keep Don out of the way and from getting hurt?

The way I hear it HH6 does this all the time....... just the way I heard it told  ;D
Check your sources...You heard wrong!
;-)
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Offline Flyin6

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well we already figured he has the old part going against him, then the pilot aspect is another ding, and now he is crippled from trying to show off for the youngins............whats next....ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Healin'

and

Gettin' right back at it

That's what!
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Offline Nate

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Lol
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Offline stlaser

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DOT nation I was referencing is hard at work......
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Nate

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;D
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Offline BobbyB

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almost exactly 200 meters. We will follow with a smaller backstop at 25 meters, and 100 meters for now.

Actual ranged confirmed distance?
Actual meters or really yards but the usage of meter is stuck in your head?
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Flyin6

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almost exactly 200 meters. We will follow with a smaller backstop at 25 meters, and 100 meters for now.

Actual ranged confirmed distance?
Actual meters or really yards but the usage of meter is stuck in your head?
Yep

Measured it on goggle earth. Depending on where I place the shooters bench (Compromise between a nice flat spot and where mama says, 200-215 meters.
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Offline JR

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Close enough. I doubt real targets will be stopping at your set ranges.

Now you just need moving targets!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 04:57:32 PM by JR »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Close enough. I doubt real targets will be stopping at your set ranges.

Now you just need moving targets!

That is true, but if you don't know the range you are shooting you can not set the scope right either ;) Moving target, that is why full auto is good.

Offline JR

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I almost bought a bump fire stock yesterday. Just $130 now.

I love moving targets,,,,,,,,
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide Site/Bug out Site construction thread, Part 3 (It's gettin' mo-betterer)
« Reply #297 on: November 02, 2016, 07:28:46 PM »
Got some more done today. Keith helped again on the Archibald Henderson Range.

We had cut enough 18" long sections of 4" PVC to set in eight shooting lanes with each target having a left and right post to which we would attach either plywood or Cardboard to which targets could be fastened.

So we started off punching out the first hole...I hit lots of pesky rocks...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide Site/Bug out Site construction thread, Part 3 (It's gettin' mo-betterer)
« Reply #298 on: November 02, 2016, 07:32:13 PM »
This was the maiden voyage for the auger I purchased this past summer. It is a brute. I ran it at idle most of the time and while running that auger the tractor's engine never seemed to notice

Next we tried to drill the other matching hole, 24" away

No dice...went down a few inches and hit a big rock

So we moved to the other side and managed to drill another 6" deep hole

So back to the original spot but aft about a foot. Same deal, made it maybe 6 inches and the auger came to rest on a big rock

So this backed us up and caused a rethink of the plan
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 07:34:37 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide Site/Bug out Site construction thread, Part 3 (It's gettin' mo-betterer)
« Reply #299 on: November 02, 2016, 07:34:18 PM »
The new plan called for one pole in the center of the range, then another left and right of center, 22.5 feet.

So we punched those and actually got the two holes sunk in to sufficient depth!
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