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Offline KensAuto

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Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« on: December 19, 2017, 06:24:29 PM »
I don't have enough heartache in my life, so here goes another project. A couple years ago I redid the top of this pop-up, when the outer layer (Filon) failed, by sealing the cracks with foamboard sealant/adhesive and a few hundred dollars worth of color matched bedliner.
It failed within a year. I covered it with a canvas tarp and pushed it out of view.

The backstory: Fleetwood (Coleman) switched from aluminum as the roofing material, to a "spaceage" product called Filon around 2006-07. It's a super thin fiberglass like material that is super strong. It first becomes porous (pin holes) then shrinks and cracks. From the forums I've read, they warrantied a few just before selling their pop-up division to a different company. That company went bankrupt and closed their doors.

I recently found out that a different company (somerset rv) started building the same trailer and it actually carries the same name, Evolution 3. I called them to price a new roof and was told that the roofs wouldn't interchange, and that I wasn't the first person to call, regarding the same issue. He (Kevin) says that the roofs are different (even tho they are built on the same plans?) and even with fab skills, no way to modify to fit. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't convince him to sell me one. He then said even if they would interchange, he had no way to sell me one. (I will add this company to the list...yeah, that list).
I want to document the rebuild here, whether it's a failure or a success, because I haven't seen one like this done on the web.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2017, 06:24:55 PM »
Some pics of the original repairs in 2014
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 10:38:06 PM by KensAuto »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2017, 06:35:08 PM »
Ken, with your mad fab skills can’t you just buy a couple of sheets of aluminum & find a local place with a brake & build your own? You would need heming dies to do a standing seam in the middle but it could be done pretty easy.....
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 06:41:25 PM »
I was thinking a real thick layer of ShoeGoo


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 06:42:18 PM »
I don't know about fab skills, but that was one of my thoughts. The way I'm leaning is towards using EPDM like most RVs. The main issue is that it's a sandwich style roof...thin panel inside, 1" styrofoam, then the Filon on top. No wood in the middle. To use epdm I think I would first have to glue some ply down to the foam with special adhesive (268.00/gallon), to give the rubber a base.....decisions, decisions

Charles  :knucklehead: !!!
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 08:09:31 PM »
I vote for shoo goo
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 08:58:28 PM »
 
I vote for shoo goo
:likebutton:

Not sure which is the best way.
How would fibreglass fare?
And not to bring up the tac topper...
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline stlaser

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 09:14:42 PM »
I vote for shoo goo
:likebutton:

Not sure which is the best way.
How would fibreglass fare?
And not to bring up the tac topper...

Oh you didn’t? :huh:
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Bigdave_185

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Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 09:25:03 PM »
Ken,

This is a site that I have found very helpful with the conversion of my enclosed 27 foot trailer to a camp trailer.  Poke around there and see if you find something helpful.  These guys are building trailers from nothing
Than I failed to provide a link
http://tnttt.com/

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 09:30:09 PM by Bigdave_185 »

Offline Nate

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 09:29:45 PM »
Ken,

This is a site that I have found very helpful with the conversion of my enclosed 27 foot trailer to a camp trailer.  Poke around there and see if you find something helpful.  These guys are building trailers from nothing


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Is there a link you were wanting to put in this post dave..........?

I vote for shoo goo
:likebutton:

Not sure which is the best way.
How would fibreglass fare?
And not to bring up the tac topper...

Oh you didn’t? :huh:

Yes he did shawn, sam broke rules #1 & #2
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 09:31:19 PM »
It’s been a long day lol


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 09:47:10 PM »
Alright, thanks Dave. Fiberglass is a no...the resin would eat the foam and putting a layer of wood first and then fiberglass might make it too heavy. It's already a pain for me to crank up...something to do with having a bad back or a weak mind, not sure which.

Sam, it' funny you mention *** ******.........my thoughts exactly.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 10:33:48 PM »
Ken,

This is a site that I have found very helpful with the conversion of my enclosed 27 foot trailer to a camp trailer.  Poke around there and see if you find something helpful.  These guys are building trailers from nothing


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Is there a link you were wanting to put in this post dave..........?

I vote for shoo goo
:likebutton:

Not sure which is the best way.
How would fibreglass fare?
And not to bring up the tac topper...

Oh you didn’t? :huh:

Yes he did shawn, sam broke rules #1 & #2

We got rules?
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 10:41:40 PM »
Don’t group me in with rules


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 10:45:16 PM »

Here's what it looked like a year later.


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 10:51:57 PM »
Starting the tear down. First the long aluminum side rails. The only thing holding them down is urethane caulking, similar to windshield sealant. I had to use a torch to heat it up enough to break the bond.
Speaking of derailing.... you guys are worse than me!! (Maybe not)

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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 10:40:59 AM »
Ken,

This is a site that I have found very helpful with the conversion of my enclosed 27 foot trailer to a camp trailer.  Poke around there and see if you find something helpful.  These guys are building trailers from nothing


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Is there a link you were wanting to put in this post dave..........?

I vote for shoo goo
:likebutton:

Not sure which is the best way.
How would fibreglass fare?
And not to bring up the tac topper...

Oh you didn’t? :huh:

Yes he did shawn, sam broke rules #1 & #2

Well, here's how I saw it.
We all were thinking it...
One of us was bound to mention it.
I think I'm the longest from being banned and or fired, so my turn.

Sorry Ken to junk up yet another thread.
But it's the way things roll around here.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline kampfitt

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 11:21:34 AM »
We redid the inlaws 5th wheel rubber roof with this stuff.
http://richfieldtrailer.com/Dyco-Shield-and-Seal-890-Gallon-890G%7C1-302/
 Rolled it on just like rubber bedliner but white, sealed up the oud rubber roof and no more leaks!!  Needed 1gal and a quart to do 21ft roof.
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Offline rpar86

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 03:12:17 PM »
How bout some of that As-Seen-On-TV FlexSeal stuff? The one that they use to seal up the bottom of the jon boat.
Ryan
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 05:02:06 PM »
Did someone just bring up that Tac-Topper?
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2017, 05:31:46 PM »
Did someone just bring up that Tac-Topper?

Tac-Topper? What is that you speak of? :popcorn:
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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 05:44:34 PM »
I saw a guy redo one of those Ken..he used corrugated aluminum ..worked well enough, not super attractive LoL


Tac Topper, is that the legendary plywood bulletproof topper?

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 06:34:50 PM »
There will be no talk of that here!
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Offline cruizng

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 09:06:45 PM »
I didn't see nuttin'


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 09:48:59 PM »
Should I pull up some pics Norm? :wink
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Offline Nate

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2017, 10:46:45 PM »
Did someone just bring up that Tac-Topper?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2017, 08:35:09 AM »
Should I pull up some pics Norm? :wink
Yes.


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Offline JR

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2017, 02:17:19 AM »
You can use Epoxy resin. That will not eat foam and is just a easy to use and find. I did a GM headliner with it and it worked great! Plus it stays flexible unlike poly resin.

I need to coat mine, but a new roof would be better.
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Offline Nate

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2017, 09:13:16 AM »
You can use Epoxy resin. That will not eat foam and is just a easy to use and find. I did a GM headliner with it and it worked great! Plus it stays flexible unlike poly resin.

I need to coat mine, but a new roof would be better.

Didnt you just repair it like a year ago, has it gone to crap already?
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Offline JR

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 12:37:46 PM »
I repaired the leak which has held up fine. I still need to coat the entire roof though. 10 years old.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2020, 09:16:13 PM »
Left this project hanging I guess.

So, after stripping the thin layer of Filon off, I realized how bad the foam layer was. It was 2 long sheets of cheap white styrofoam...lighter than a gas station cup. I proceeded to cut all of the foam out and replace it.
I have a hard time describing how difficult that was, using an oscillating tool, separating it from the thin plywood layer (inside ceiling) without destroying the wood. Also very messy.

To be able to support the thin plywood i cut some 2x4 rafters and slid them into aluminum channels on the inside perimeter then a platform for me to kneel on from above.

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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2020, 09:28:03 PM »
I bought several sheets of the blue tongue and groove foam, 1" thick, and ran it from side to side instead of lengthwise, mainly because it's like 13' long.
I don't remember the brand of foam safe adhesive I used but it was in a 3 gallon bucket, and I used all of it. I then used partially filled sandbags to keep pressure down on the foam until dry, only doing 1 panel a day. I could only put so much weight on it without causing it to bow downwards.

After all the panels were glued, I used some loctite brand foam adhesive to fill in any gaps and used it like Bondo in some areas.
By this point I was pretty frustrated with the whole thing and didn't take many pics.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 10:05:01 PM by KensAuto »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2020, 10:24:16 PM »
Good looking repair!
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Offline Nate

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2020, 10:52:19 PM »
That looks better than the epic failure we witnessed almost 6 - 7 years ago!
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2020, 11:33:01 PM »
Found some more pics in my old phone.
At first I tried to replace just the worst sections, then eventually stripped all of it.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2020, 11:35:13 PM »
Random pics
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2020, 11:45:57 PM »
Most of this is in 2018 and I still didn't have a good plan for the top layer. I wanted aluminum or thin sheet metal...maybe galvanized. The largest metal shop in Phoenix told me I wouldn't be able to do it in one piece and I really didn't want any seams.

I put it on the back burner again until one day when my friends son stopped by. He worked on tractor trailers for a large super market. He told me they outsourced damaged trailers to a shop that had a large roll of aluminum that they would back a trailer under, roll out whatever length needed to repair the roof, and cut it to length.

So I ended up with this. 8'w by 16' long.
Got it for cost...180 bucks
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2020, 11:58:18 PM »
Fast forward to last week, I started by sanding the back side of the aluminum and cleaned 2 times.
Again, it's imperative that I get all 3 layers to bond since it's so, well, flimsy.
(1/8" plywood, 1" foam, and the aluminum sheet) I was able to walk on the original without it flexing so that's what I'm trying to replicate.

I made some different rafters for temporary support, cutting and planing 2x4s to have an upwards arch. Using sandbags again, I don't want it to sag and hold water.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2020, 12:02:27 AM »
This is the adhesive I chose over the bulk stuff factories use. That stuff has went up in price to 340 a gallon plus hazardous shipping of about 50.
Downside is that I won't be able to cover very much area before it tacks up.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2020, 12:08:35 AM »
I did some testing. Scuffed vs smooth aluminum. Using Windex vs laquer thinner vs naptha to clean the surfaces, and different tack times before assembly.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2020, 12:20:35 AM »
Scuffing the aluminum, and cleaning it and the foam with Windex, actually dried the strongest.

Next hurdle was to try and glue it down in sections. There's no way I could do it all at once without messing something up.

We started by laying it flat. Then I clamped a 2x4 to one end. A pulley was hung from the roof above the opposite end then a rope ran from the 2x4 up through the pulley and back down to a tie off point. The sheet was basically rolled halfway back over itself but held high enough not to fold in half.

Hmm. No pics of that cluster****

...so basically glued down 1/2 of the sheet, added sand bags, and let dry for 2 days.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 12:21:53 AM by KensAuto »
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2020, 12:28:25 AM »
I decided to go ahead and trim off the back and sides, especially since it was at jugular height (a couple close calls).

At this point I realized how hard this aluminum was to bend. .. with a buddy helping me we got the rear folded over. It was a battle. It looks terrible, unless you like that hammered sheet metal look.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2020, 12:38:52 AM »
Who would think aluminum wouldn't fold over with 2 grown men assaulting it feverishly? Not this guy.

Anyway, not going to go through that again on the front. This guy knows a thing or two about annealing metal, especially copper. How much different can it be to soften aluminum? You just soot it up with acetylene and burn it off with some heat right?
Any knucklehead could do that.

I didn't take a pic of it before I cut it off this morning, but here it is after. So much for not having any seams.  Urrr
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 12:41:53 AM by KensAuto »
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2020, 01:56:22 AM »
Ken, I thought you had a toy hauler? I know this was in the shop, but aside from moving it out of the shop, what’s your plan with it? Good work though!

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2020, 08:03:52 AM »
This. Guy has a lot of time on his hands....

Ken I’d have figured you’d have fabbed a bender with some heavy angle iron


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2020, 09:31:49 AM »
Ken, I thought you had a toy hauler? I know this was in the shop, but aside from moving it out of the shop, what’s your plan with it? Good work though!
My first trailer. Bought it new. Fun for short trips, but it's going away as soon as it's done.
Charles, not sure how to reply at this point in time. Can't find a middle finger emoji.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2020, 07:00:16 PM »
Ken, I thought you had a toy hauler? I know this was in the shop, but aside from moving it out of the shop, what’s your plan with it? Good work though!
My first trailer. Bought it new. Fun for short trips, but it's going away as soon as it's done.
Charles, not sure how to reply at this point in time. Can't find a middle finger emoji.

And you won't

I'm watchin' U!

;-)
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2020, 07:01:59 PM »
I decided to go ahead and trim off the back and sides, especially since it was at jugular height (a couple close calls).

At this point I realized how hard this aluminum was to bend. .. with a buddy helping me we got the rear folded over. It was a battle. It looks terrible, unless you like that hammered sheet metal look.
You need some mil-spec grade "bend-all"
I'll see if I have some
Maybe Tate sells it???
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2020, 12:50:08 PM »
in 5 gal buckets sir. along with grizzly grease
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Fleetwood E3 Filon Roof Failure
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2020, 04:06:25 PM »
in 5 gal buckets sir. along with grizzly grease
Ken...???

You listening?

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