Author Topic: Cool vid of the Chinook (Read 4673 times)

Flyin6 · « **on:** July 05, 2015, 04:03:10 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYo7BMEJt80#t=24

Sammconn · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2015, 07:58:50 PM »

That is pretty cool.
How do the turbines handle all the sand?
What a pile of dust for the poor buggers on the ground when the bird powers up.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2015, 11:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Sammconn on July 05, 2015, 07:58:50 PM

That is pretty cool.
How do the turbines handle all the sand?
What a pile of dust for the poor buggers on the ground when the bird powers up.

They handle the dust quite well actually
I was a Chinook Instructor Pilot for maybe 15 years. During that time I had to do "Dust landing qualifications" on all or some of my pilots, depending on if I had any other instructors helping me. I'd take out 2-3 guys out a night and go to some dusty dirt road and have them do approach after approach. Like 2.5 hours worth...times 40 or so pilots, every year. Then during Desert Storm me and a senior NCO invented a new method of delivering DMV's (Special Forces desert mobility vehicles) with a much longer sling and a pseudo running landing. Again hours and hours of teaching all the others pilots how to do that...it was a tricky maneuver, one that got us on the cover of Army Magazine.
In all those hours in California, Kentucky, Korea, Saudi-Arabia, Iraq, you name it, I never lost an engine to dust ingestion. Actually I came closer to engine failure due to massive ice accumulation several times.

I never liked landing when I couldn't see the ground, but I'll bet F-18 Hornet pilots don't like a night trap on a CV either...just part of the job

Dawg25385 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2015, 12:22:18 AM »

Quote from: Flyin6 on July 05, 2015, 11:00:05 PM

I never liked landing when I couldn't see the ground, but I'll bet F-18 Hornet pilots don't like a night trap on a CV either...just part of the job

When you were "in", did you ever have any ambitions to fly a fixed wing rocket like the 18/15/16? Apologies if it's sacrilegious to ask a helo pilot that :D

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BobbyB · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2015, 03:21:41 AM »

Quote from: Sammconn on July 05, 2015, 07:58:50 PM

What a pile of dust for the poor buggers on the ground when the bird powers up.

Not a fun moment.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2015, 09:50:26 AM »

Quote from: Dawg25385 on July 06, 2015, 12:22:18 AM

Quote from: Flyin6 on July 05, 2015, 11:00:05 PM
I never liked landing when I couldn't see the ground, but I'll bet F-18 Hornet pilots don't like a night trap on a CV either...just part of the job

When you were "in", did you ever have any ambitions to fly a fixed wing rocket like the 18/15/16? Apologies if it's sacrilegious to ask a helo pilot that :D

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Well, the Army doesn't have high performance fixed wing aircraft so there was not a real opportunity.
But, there was something that came up
A-10's
Back just before the desert storm, the Air Force was wanting to give up all it's rotary wing and close air support aircraft to the Army, since that's our mission. THey wanted a blue sky air force and space command. So the Army went about gathering up some pilots to transition into the A-10. It was just a list, of "Volunteers" that they thought could do the transition. ANd the thought was to make those aircraft part of our expanding special operations rhelm. Well yours truly, was on that list. I expected to come back from the war and move out to Tucson, Davis-Mothan AFB to start A-10 training, then bring them back to either Campbell or Bragg.
But the A-10 was magnificent in the war going from ugly troll to super-star in just one aerial campaign.
My jet days would wait until I became a scum suckin' ;-)) civilian flying around Canadair regional jets 5 times a day...No bombs or cannon on the RJ...

Wilbur · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2015, 01:06:09 PM »

Really awesome video. Thanks for sharing it!
I have to believe the guys attaching that cargo sling at night with that bird right above their heads had a pretty decent pucker factor going on. :o And I imagine every bit as bad for the pilots trying to keep it steady!

KensAuto · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2015, 01:11:35 PM »

Quote from: Wilbur on July 06, 2015, 01:06:09 PM

Really awesome video. Thanks for sharing it!
I have to believe the guys attaching that cargo sling at night with that bird right above their heads had a pretty decent pucker factor going on. :o And I imagine every bit as bad for the pilots trying to keep it steady!

That's what I was thinking.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2015, 01:45:40 PM »

Quote from: Wilbur on July 06, 2015, 01:06:09 PM

Really awesome video. Thanks for sharing it!
I have to believe the guys attaching that cargo sling at night with that bird right above their heads had a pretty decent pucker factor going on. :o And I imagine every bit as bad for the pilots trying to keep it steady!

Yep, that's a maximum concentration time, that's for sure. Especially if the PZ (pickup zone) is dusty or has wavy grass, like a field. Difficult to get a good ground reference. You have to fly the aircraft while looking through the chin bubble. I'd pick a single weed or stone and fly off that best I could.
During my years of doing that, I had several injuries. The worst was in Arkansas where a young man fell off the top of a load while holding onto that 116lb sling and clevis. The load was wet, then the weight of the sling, and the wind. He broke his shoulder and back. Bad night for him.

JR · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2015, 04:27:57 PM »

That 270 killing AS was great.

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2015, 05:00:31 PM »

Cool stuff D. I particularly liked the aggressive maneuver where the nose went down, and the tail went up, and pivoted around the nose and then dropped back down. Hard to imagine something that big being that maneuverable.

Sammconn · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2015, 05:47:12 PM »

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 07, 2015, 05:00:31 PM

Cool stuff D. I particularly liked the aggressive maneuver where the nose went down, and the tail went up, and pivoted around the nose and then dropped back down. Hard to imagine something that big being that maneuverable.

Very maneuverable and agile stuck out to me. I didn't realize these big birds were that agile.
That turn was something else.
Also liked the tail dropping of the men, I know there is a real name for this. Got to be a handful parking the rear end and still flying the front. I know Don has talked about some of the spots he's dne this.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:03:37 PM »

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 07, 2015, 05:00:31 PM

Cool stuff D. I particularly liked the aggressive maneuver where the nose went down, and the tail went up, and pivoted around the nose and then dropped back down. Hard to imagine something that big being that maneuverable.

That particular maneuver is not practiced or used by the US Army. It's something I stumbled across one day out in a Marine Corps school called WTI (Weapons and Tactics Instructor). It's the rotary wing version of the Navy's Top-Gun school. I was turning hard one day and for some reason I added in some opposite pedal and whamo, the thing did what you just saw and stopped. The H53 I was maneuvering against went whizzing right by.

I practiced that maneuver a lot over the years. A chinook travelling 50 knots, can stop inside it's own rotor system by doing that. I'd have to brief the crew and co-pilot if I had guys who hadn't flown with me before because it feels like you're crashing. But I promise it is very controlled.

One day I have an Apache escort...Regular Armee guys. They are escorting me while I go in to do an extraction of some SF dudes. I maintained my airspeed until I was almost overhead, then did that maneuver, then flared hard enough to stick the aft gear on the ground then lowered the thrust until the front wheels touched. All that in the span of a few seconds. The apache guys thought I had just crashed! So the SF dudes hop on and like 10 seconds, while the Apaches are coming back to see if I crashed, I pulled pitch and come out of that LZ like a rocket. I gave the code word and they tucked in on me as I accelerated to around 160 knots, but they couldn't keep up, so we slowed to 150 or 155, can't remember.

But yea, I loved that aircraft for what it could do!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:04:55 PM »

Quote from: Sammconn on July 07, 2015, 05:47:12 PM

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 07, 2015, 05:00:31 PM
Cool stuff D. I particularly liked the aggressive maneuver where the nose went down, and the tail went up, and pivoted around the nose and then dropped back down. Hard to imagine something that big being that maneuverable.
Very maneuverable and agile stuck out to me. I didn't realize these big birds were that agile.
That turn was something else.
Also liked the tail dropping of the men, I know there is a real name for this. Got to be a handful parking the rear end and still flying the front. I know Don has talked about some of the spots he's dne this.

I've landed on this exact mountain top LZ so many times, I couldn't begin to remember how many

Nate · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:24:47 PM »

please explain the green ring at the edge of the blades under NVG's

Wilbur · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:30:01 PM »

Quote from: Flyin6 on July 07, 2015, 08:03:37 PM

One day I have an Apache escort...Regular Armee guys. They are escorting me while I go in to do an extraction of some SF dudes. I maintained my airspeed until I was almost overhead, then did that maneuver, then flared hard enough to stick the aft gear on the ground then lowered the thrust until the front wheels touched. All that in the span of a few seconds. The apache guys thought I had just crashed! So the SF dudes hop on and like 10 seconds, while the Apaches are coming back to see if I crashed, I pulled pitch and come out of that LZ like a rocket. I gave the code word and they tucked in on me as I accelerated to around 160 knots, but they couldn't keep up, so we slowed to 150 or 155, can't remember.

Ok....let me just say....that is so f'n cool!!! AND I'm sure the SF guys you were picking up were glad to know that their ride had brass ones and could get in and out w/o a lot of lollygagging. Damn man!

Also curious....where is that LZ? Here in the states?

Flyin6 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:52:44 PM »

Yea, US, a training exercise. Fort Chaffee, AR. Near Ft. Smith AR.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:56:31 PM »

Quote from: nmeyer414 on July 07, 2015, 08:24:47 PM

please explain the green ring at the edge of the blades under NVG's

The rotor system generates massive static electricity. When a dust particle gets sucked into the rotors, you get a snap, like running your hands over a wool sweater in the winter at night. Notice that sparkin? Same thing, much bigger scale.

Now having said that, some helicopters now have rotor tip lighting. And it is feasible to change the colors of that lighting. So when the birds land and you're all confused in one big brown dusty mess, all you know is to go to the bird with the blue rotor tip lights...cool, Eeh?

Flyin6 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2015, 09:06:25 PM »

OK, we're talkin some creepy, not of this earth stuff, right?

Know what St. Elmos fire is?

Like an aoura borealis, except it happens to the jet you're flying, and it's really creepy. I imagine when man first enters a worm hole, it will look like that.

OK, here I am, first time kid. I'm up at 41,000 feet doing like way too fast. But I'm on my way back from the Bahamas and I just want to get home. Somewhere down in Tennessee the FAA dudes start me down hill for landing in Cincy. So from 41,000 I pushed the nose over a degree or two and kept the power in for a second or two. The barber pole, an overspeed warning was showing in the airspeed indicator part of the fliggin screen and the overspeed clacker was ah clackin' but what the hay, I was maverick and there was a mig up ahead somewhere!

That's when it happened. Waves of what looks like flames start washing over the windshield and I think for a moment, that we mush have broken apart, died and this is the afterlife! But it continues. so being the touch it and see if it hurts type start to reach toward the windshield. The captain calmly says, please don't do that...I would like to have an FO for the landing please. So I never touched it. Hey, maybe if I did I'd turn into that powder guy and see visions, or the future! Who knows. But I do know, that is some weird stuff. Oh, and I guess I oversped the aircraft just a bit. I was flirting with transonic flight that happens before you go supersonic, which an RJ definitely can't do...I think!

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:08:04 AM »

One question D. So dropping the tail on the the mountainside LZ with the nose in the air....there has to be a calculation (mental or otherwise) of the angle of the mountainside, the angle of the craft and how far back the blades spin past the tail to keep you from chopping rock with the blades.

How does that work?

Flyin6 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:50:27 AM »

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 10, 2015, 01:08:04 AM

One question D. So dropping the tail on the the mountainside LZ with the nose in the air....there has to be a calculation (mental or otherwise) of the angle of the mountainside, the angle of the craft and how far back the blades spin past the tail to keep you from chopping rock with the blades.

How does that work?

Attitude indicator...

The Chinook hovers around 2 degrees nose high
When you lower the thrust handle (Collective in most helicopters) the aft wheels contact the ground first
So you descent until the aft wheels contact the ground.
Then you carefully work in about 2" of aft cyclic while lowering the thrust to maintain that 2 degrees of nose up attitude. This drives the wheels hard into the ground. Then you just fly the front half of the aircraft, but using the thrust for up/down attitude control in lieu of the collective.

It's hard to do and takes a lot of training for the young pilot and some extra gray hairs for the instructor (Check my cranium out)

Now add to this the fact that the ground you are landing to has a left to right slope, and you have a whole new game going on there. When you first land, you only have one wheel on the ground.

And with mountain flying anywhere, there is the wind. Always present, always turbulent.

And finally, we in the Armee do that wearing NVG's

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:14:42 AM »

I'm not sure that answered my question, or I am not commanding the english language well.

When the LZ is on the side (sloping part of the mountain) and you put the ramp down on that slope, it seems like the blades get awfully close to the mountain and at some point the mountain would be so steep as to contact the blades if you guessed wrong.

Nate · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:52:04 AM »

not trying to derail here RN, but here is a video of my Brigade Commander doing some really good flying similar to what you are asking about. duane may like this a bit more because it is of the catfish and not the school bus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APIpPijMy5k

Flyin6 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:56:29 AM »

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 10, 2015, 09:14:42 AM

I'm not sure that answered my question, or I am not commanding the english language well.

When the LZ is on the side (sloping part of the mountain) and you put the ramp down on that slope, it seems like the blades get awfully close to the mountain and at some point the mountain would be so steep as to contact the blades if you guessed wrong.

Then you would have an unsuitable LZ!

Also, bad thing here

When on a slope the blades are much closer to the ground

Some people over my career suffered rotor blade to head contact. The worst was a t Ft. Bragg. A doctor gets out of a BlackHawk to walk over to his waiting wife. A blade strikes him and pulls his body up into the rotor system right in front of her!

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2015, 05:30:11 PM »

Exactly, but I have seen vids of just that, spec ops guys being put out on the downslope with the tail rotors awfully close to the ground. How do they judge that slope to know, "oh yeah, I got this"?

Dawg25385 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2015, 05:40:11 PM »

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 10, 2015, 05:30:11 PM

How do they judge that slope to know, "oh yeah, I got this"?

I'm going to guess it's an anomalous gene that few have, and not instrumentation... :o

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #26 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:18:45 PM »

Butt pucker meter

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Flyin6 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:10:27 PM »

Quote from: TexasRedNeck on July 10, 2015, 05:30:11 PM

Exactly, but I have seen vids of just that, spec ops guys being put out on the downslope with the tail rotors awfully close to the ground. How do they judge that slope to know, "oh yeah, I got this"?

Well, when you fully land and take all the power out, you are supposed to return the controls to neutral which would have the rotor disk at about the same height all the way around.

Problem is some grunts get off while you are still landing, and sometimes the ground is not stable, like muddy of loose rock, so you have to apply some power into the slope just to stay on it. At those times it's not safe. Good thing about the hook is the ramp. If you just walk straight back you'll be fine. If you take a quick right or left you'll get nearly burned alive by the exhaust!