Suppressor Build

[stlaser]

First this is going to take awhile so relax. I just ordered the finger print cards from the ATF. Once I receive those then I need to get local police chiefs signature (we'll see if this happens, if not may be looking at a trust) and fill out a few more forms which I will detail later. Then send funds along with paperwork off to ATF and wait a good 120 days. No part of this build will start before I receive approval from ATF.

My goal is to build a unit capable of suppressing an AR but will also be using it on .22 LR and .22 Mag guns. I will be doing research on designs and updating here as I progress forward.

[BobbyB]

Why don't you just buy one already made that'll handle the calibers you want? I get that it won't be built by you, but if they already are out there why try and design and fab up your own?

[TexasRedNeck]

Are you saying you will be building your own suppressor?  Legally the suppressor is a "NFA firearm"

I believe that requires a manufacturing license from the ATF under Form 7 as well as the payment of an annual occupational tax (form 5630.7) each year for each location where business is conducted.

[stlaser]

Why don't you just buy one already made that'll handle the calibers you want? I get that it won't be built by you, but if they already are out there why try and design and fab up your own?

Same can be said for ar's or any other weapon...... Cause I can ;)

[stlaser]

Are you saying you will be building your own suppressor?  Legally the suppressor is a "NFA firearm"

I believe that requires a manufacturing license from the ATF under Form 7 as well as the payment of an annual occupational tax (form 5630.7) each year for each location where business is conducted.

Yes I will be & it's a $200 tax stamp

[BobbyB]

Why don't you just buy one already made that'll handle the calibers you want? I get that it won't be built by you, but if they already are out there why try and design and fab up your own?

Same can be said for ar's or any other weapon...... Cause I can ;)

Touche. Good enough reason I suppose.

[stlaser]

I've done minimum research on this to know it is legal, the cost and the time line.

Questions I have not researched are as follows.

A- can I have a shop with a cnc lathe make components to my prints? This answer to this question will determine how I proceed forward with construction

B- Sheet metal internals or lathe cut internals, the latter would require me sourcing a lathe to rent or buy.

And to answer prior questions of why. I am doing this because I always learn more when I build things myself. I do not have any advanced degrees (did go to college prior to starting GLO but dropped out with 6 credits to go for an engineering associate degree because I'm that smart ::) ) etc. What I know I was taught by someone else or I read a lot and self taught. So I see this as a challenge to learn something new and I have always wanted a suppressor just never wanted to pay what they want for them. Yeah I'm cheap on certain things.

Edit: the other thing and please correct and give advice if you have. But I don't think anyone on this site has completed such a project. So as to earn my keep this will be adding to the knowledge base that is RM and maybe it will help the community as a whole. Win, win and win I get a new toy!

 

[JR]

I believe possession of any "suppressor part" is the same as possessing the finished unit.

No, they cannot machine parts for you. However they can let you start the machine once it is ready. It is the act, not the thought.

[TexasRedNeck]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLhpqu3MPJAhXC7iYKHfSjBWAQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Ffile%2F58221%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNFgAla8vEeY3YapC34pzTYKm4HTGQ&sig2=ni40eNUudcCu7VVhYFOXDA

This may help.  I would have called you crazy had I not gone back and done some more research.  Curious to see how your conversations with the fine folks in Atlanta go during your build process.

It would be interesting to make a can with a removable end plate and baffle stack.  Then replace the end plate and baffle stack with 30 cal or 22 cal components to have a single can with good sound attenuation on both sized projectiles.

[stlaser]

I believe possession of any "suppressor part" is the same as possessing the finished unit.

No, they cannot machine parts for you. However they can let you start the machine once it is ready. It is the act, not the thought.

Yeah, it seems kinda fuzzy because now if you own a Maglite you may own a suppressor part......

[stlaser]

TRN, normally you're more than well informed I was surprised you questioned building a home brew can. Anyhow, my guess is you would have to have 2 different tax stamps for that but it brings up a good point. My other concern with that is I think the unit would be rather bulky on the smaller caliber. I think you will need more volume for the larger calibers. Not sure just an assumption at this point.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLhpqu3MPJAhXC7iYKHfSjBWAQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Ffile%2F58221%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNFgAla8vEeY3YapC34pzTYKm4HTGQ&sig2=ni40eNUudcCu7VVhYFOXDA

This may help.  I would have called you crazy had I not gone back and done some more research.  Curious to see how your conversations with the fine folks in Atlanta go during your build process.

It would be interesting to make a can with a removable end plate and baffle stack.  Then replace the end plate and baffle stack with 30 cal or 22 cal components to have a single can with good sound attenuation on both sized projectiles.

[stlaser]

JR, the other point is if I supply a print the machine shop wouldn't know if the widget was for a nasa space rocket or a 69 Camaro dash. Granted I will stay within the law regardless otherwise why would I pay a $200 tax stamp & document it here.

[TexasRedNeck]

TRN, normally you're more than well informed I was surprised you questioned building a home brew can. Anyhow, my guess is you would have to have 2 different tax stamps for that but it brings up a good point. My other concern with that is I think the unit would be rather bulky on the smaller caliber. I think you will need more volume for the larger calibers. Not sure just an assumption at this point.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLhpqu3MPJAhXC7iYKHfSjBWAQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Ffile%2F58221%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNFgAla8vEeY3YapC34pzTYKm4HTGQ&sig2=ni40eNUudcCu7VVhYFOXDA

This may help.  I would have called you crazy had I not gone back and done some more research.  Curious to see how your conversations with the fine folks in Atlanta go during your build process.

It would be interesting to make a can with a removable end plate and baffle stack.  Then replace the end plate and baffle stack with 30 cal or 22 cal components to have a single can with good sound attenuation on both sized projectiles.

Yes sir. I did some research when I bought AK flats.  Learned something new today, so thank you.

You are on the right track.  Ideal volume of the can relates to the amount of powder burned and the longer the delay of the exit of the gas, the better the attenuation.  That's a function of volume and baffle design.  Generally the bigger the better, but that has to be balanced with practicality.

[stlaser]

TRN, if that's the case (powder burned) the volume of the can may be larger than I want for .22LR or Mag. Which then in turn explains why most .22LR cans are not rated for 5.56.....

[TexasRedNeck]

Yep.  Lots of powder in a small space = lots of pressure.

My 22LR can is about 1 inch in diameter and about 5 inches long.

My 556 can, rated FA is about 2 inches in diameter and 8 inches long.  Made from SS and iconel as opposed to aluminum and stainless.

[TexasRedNeck]

You can always safely used a larger can on a smaller weapon but not the other way around.


My Thunderbeast 30P1 is rated for 300WM but its not as quiet as it is on the 308.  So I plan to get a 338BA, made for the 338 Lapua and use it on the 300WM to improve the attenuation.  Later I can use it on a 338 if I step up to that platform

[rasimmo]

Most 22 cans are not built to take the pressure of 5.56.

I would highly recommend a trust. With that you can complete what is normally referred to as a "Form 1" online with the ATF, pay your $200 with a card and they email a electronic stamp copy. That same form can be used for short barrels also. You can't do it online without having a trust. The trust costs a few hundred to set up, but trust me this won't be a one time thing.
Link to E forms
https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/faces/userProfile/login.jspx?_afrLoop=80431798485318425&_afrWindowMode=0&_adf.ctrl-state=62rzlaym0_4


As far as why anyone would do this. The answer is simple. You can buy parts to complete a titanium tubed and capped 8" can for less than $200. Add about $50 worth of freeze plugs that you drill and press into a cone and you have a can that works great. I know that's long for a pistol can, but it makes an M&P 40 comfortable to do a mag dump without hearing protection (not what I normally do, but I had to try it). Buying that size can would be $800 - $1200. Of course you have to add the  stamp price to all the above. There are several places to get solvent trap parts online. You can have as many of those as you want. As soon as you drill the end cap or a baffle it becomes a supressor part. You have to have the stamp in hand before doing that. From what I have found, you can hire someone to complete the parts. You must be present and supervising the work being done. I would not take that as legal advise. I did a lot of research though and that was my understanding of it. I will post a link to where we buy parts from. If there is any issue with it someone please remove it.

http://www.sdtacticalarms.com

[rasimmo]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLhpqu3MPJAhXC7iYKHfSjBWAQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Ffile%2F58221%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNFgAla8vEeY3YapC34pzTYKm4HTGQ&sig2=ni40eNUudcCu7VVhYFOXDA

This may help.  I would have called you crazy had I not gone back and done some more research.  Curious to see how your conversations with the fine folks in Atlanta go during your build process.

It would be interesting to make a can with a removable end plate and baffle stack.  Then replace the end plate and baffle stack with 30 cal or 22 cal components to have a single can with good sound attenuation on both sized projectiles.

That last part ain't legal. You can only have one completed set of internals per serial number. That number is specific to a certain caliber. You can always screw it on a smaller caliber gun and run it, but it needs to be built to the caliber you specify. If you want to build a second set the first must be destroyed first. You ain't supposed to build extra baffles during the process for testing set ups with spacer and such.

[stlaser]

Rasimmo, thanks for the input.

[rasimmo]

No problem. Make sure you get familiar with what needs to be engraved on it as well. I think it is just like a gun. Trust name (manufacturer), city and state, caliber, serial number, maybe model number too. I ain't positive on the last one. I will have to go look tomorrow. Sorry, but I ain't getting out of bed for that.

[JR]

You can't swap internal parts but adapters for a smaller inlet outlet may solve some issues. Not the most effective as you need to scrape the waves close to the slug, but would still work since the volume for a 308 would be well over what a 22 would require.

They are looking at clamping down on trusts so both can and autos cannot be used by more than the intended users.

[TexasRedNeck]

The law changed so that trusts don't get you out of CLEO sign off and finger prints anymore. Each person listed on the trust or LLC has to go through the process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rasimmo]

The law changed so that trusts don't get you out of CLEO sign off and finger prints anymore. Each person listed on the trust or LLC has to go through the process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's for when you set up the trust, correct? Not for every NFA item bought or built afterwards.

[stlaser]

That is my understanding, anyone you add to the trust get printed and approved by cleo. It is also my understanding that if local cleo will not sign off there is another person who is allowed to do it as well. Can't recall there title or where I read it at the moment.

[Flyin6]

Great discussion here!

You could practice your suppressor builds and get a great cleaning tool at the same time by building a cleaning tank or whatever they call it these days.

It is a suppressor like thing that is used to hold a quantity of solvent

Hold the gun straight up and down with the solvent tank screwed on and swab the barrel liberally. Really cool and does a great cleaning job.

Cost is super low and teaches one how to build a suppressor out of freeze plugs. Not a real can because it has no holes. Squeeze a round off with that thing on the end and you'll EXPLODE!

But it teaches the basis of the manufacture of a real can. So build you up a couple of those which require nothing other than ordering the parts, then when you get all the NFA paperwork done, you have practiced the operation already, just build a real one.

But these are lower quality party. Remember steel and aluminum and the like looses strength with increasing heat. So don't expect to put it on your bump-fire auto gun and rock and roll a surefire mag. I'm sure it would likely fail imparting serious injury to whoever is near the muzzle (You!)

[rasimmo]

I have a short video of 2 M&P 40 pistols fired side by side, one with the $250 built can I described and one without. It was recorded with an Iphone, so the quality aint the best. You can tell the difference though. I just don't know how to put it in here.

[JR]

Don, those Solvent adapters are cheap and do the job well. Legal and only becomes an issue if a hole finds its way into the filter end,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

To put a video up, just download to a host site (youtube-vimeo) and post the link here.

[rasimmo]

To put a video up, just download to a host site (youtube-vimeo) and post the link here.

Thanks for the suggestion, but it have no idea where to start with doing that either.  If anyone is interested y'all can PM me a number and I'll text it. Or if someone thinks it will add much here they can share it for me.
With the not so scientifically correct decibel app it measures 92. For reference, me talking (which I have been told is too loud) measures 96 on the same device. I guess checking the pistol without it would be better. Just ain't done that yet.