Something to consider...

[Flyin6]

Good one for the faith discussion, and it being a moral issue, I'd like to get some discussion on this one started early on.

Scenario: Following the economic collapse of 2014, and now about 30 days after the ATM's stopped working and the markets were all raided, you are "Bugging in" your somewhat secure neighborhood. You are planning to move in a couple nights to your bug out site where you have stockpiled some things. A home in your development of 200 homes was raided by hoodlums, the family killed along with a neighbor who tried to help and two of the raiders and the home was burned down.

You have done a good job at prepping, however many around you (Read: almost all) have only kept 3 days food on the shelves. The water failed about three weeks ago and most of your neighbors are portaging pool water from some of the other homes swimming pools. You hear dysentery has broken out in your neighborhood, and the people's faces when you see them are definitely desperate.

The other day you overheard loud voices saying "The Smiths have all sorts of food, they're probably laughing at us eating steak in that fortress of theirs!"
That single statement is what prompted you to load the suburban and trailer tonight, then bug out early the following evening.

So here's where it gets real.

What are your responsibilities toward your neighbors? Your stockpiled food is a part of your one year survival plan, so you plan to load it into the trailer while your wife and daughter stands guard with your M4 and shotgun tonight as long as it seems quiet outside.

You are worried and tired. you don't sleep a full night and mostly stand guard in different places with your rifle while your wife and girl sleeps.

You realize just how much danger you are in and estimate your chances are only even of making it to your hide site some 70 miles away.

The big question, do you offer help to your neighbors? There are almost 600 of them. You feel fairly confident most will die in the next month, most likely in a violent act while their homes are looted. What is your responsibility? Where and how do you draw the line? Who survives, you or them for another few days or weeks? Are people to be forgiven for being close minded and sticking their heads in the sand, or are they about to receive their fair lot?

You need to reconcile this in your mind because you will live with your actions for the time you have left.

What would you do?

[cudakidd53]

From the stand point of duty to Neighbors, I’d liken it to Sodom & Gomorrah or Noah and the Ark- the United States is not an area that has been deprived of access to scriptures and the teaching of the Bible.  Self reliance and ethical behavior is not a new concept to this country, so those who fail to head the warnings and signs all around us are suffering from their own delusional rationalization that the lack of morality of this generation and country will not have consequences.

The Biblical stories of Cain and Able, and Joseph and his Coat of Many Colors are prime examples of right and wrong and the consequences of doing each.  Even family will fall on opposite sides of right and wrong, good and evil and the hard choices that will have to be made.  Extended families who are small in numbers, like minded and prepared will be key “units” with strong ties likely to better survive.  Large extended families with many members will be weaker statistically, due to the likelihood of lack of homogeneous thought and morals- much like this country.  Different levels of morality cause eroded value structures to develop and strife and infighting to fester- an up front, inflexible law structure and code of conduct will be paramount to a long term viability of any re-grouping of society.  The Tribal (Family) structure that Don mentions is likely the way to survive.  Think mid 1800’s Native American Tribal structure (Plains Indians in particular) - mobile, co-operative society, in which everyone able contributed based upon their “gifts” and all followed a tribal code of conduct.

Back to the Neighbor scenario- load-up and get out taking all that you can safely carry and don’t wait thru the night- leave ASAP.  If you’re “tight” with another like minded family who’s prepared, get out together and head towards better pastures with a lower population, away from the oxygen thieves and socialists, dependent upon the labor and handouts of others.  Take solace in the fact that your neighbors will most likely help themselves to whatever you left behind- again, your labors providing for those who refused to take care of themselves.  Keep that in mind- be careful what you leave behind so that it cannot be used against you at a later date- think munitions and the like.  You’ll also want to NOT look like the Beverly Hillbillies heading down the road.  Pack as to draw little attention as possible.  Truck caps serve a purpose- open beds may look cool, but easy in, also means easy out!

In a SHTF scenario- charity will get you killed.  There will hopefully be plenty of time LATER to show compassion and charity to those more likely to survive and make positive contributions to the re-establishment of society.

[EL TATE]

Old Testament response: they were given enough warnings about the impending flood, mocked Noah and his family and at the end were lost in His wrath. Same same for Soddom and Gomorrah. Lots of warnings, lots of attempts to get them to change but with more mocking and reviling. At the end it comes down to Lot and his family as long as they are faithful, so his wife who strays from the instructions is destroyed, (pillar of salt). As sentient beings, and as Christians, we are aware of our mortality and the mortality of others. We worry for others, try to teach them and lead them to the right choices but too often we are rebuked for being "too pushy" or "too extreme", and those we have tried to help can often become our enemies drawing us into their turmoil. There may be many signs, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."Matthew 24:36

New Testament response:
Jesus, the Son of God, changed the perception and the laws that the house of Israel had held for millennia, and for that he was crucified. but he was very clear on the order of things. "Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.Mark 12;28-31.

In my opinion, the instructions are laid out clearly for me: I will do what I can for those that can't do it for themselves, but I will not jeopardize the safety and wellbeing of my family for the grasshoppers of the world. I will show them the way, but I'm not going to kick my dog out to make room for their cat if that makes sense to anyone. There is a difference between trusted friends and neighbors, who will most likely be a part of my group anyway, and strangers that are self serving and looking for freebies. 600 people can't live off my food stores, and if they were to try and take it I would defend my families lives with whatever force necessary, (our food and water is our lives) but I would also not withhold nourishment from the young or old. I would spare what I could, help where I could and move on when I had to.

I'm sure I'll be viewed as a fence rider on the subject, but I am, so that makes sense. I have not had to judiciously take a life. I have no way of knowing what would become of me, I can only say what I hope I would live up to. I believe that God would help me get through what is necessary, and to help me make the right choices at the time that they are needed. Therefore for me, a blanket statement doesn't make sense. I have to remain modular, and adaptable as water. Each and every decision has to be made quickly and correctly, or people will suffer and die. I don't welcome that moment, but I believe that I am ready for it. 

[EL TATE]

Beat me to the point there Kid. Any time you want to give those Brittanys a work out, my Uncle has 200 acres in southeastern WA. wild draws, orchards, vineyards, and usually winter wheat or oats for forage. quail, chukkar, pheasant, dove, and waterfowl are plentiful, and there is no outside pressure, so when you kick them up, they just go to another side of the property. If it weren't so far out, that would be my hide.

[cudakidd53]

Thank you for the gracious offer Tate!  I'd love to; 4 more years and I retire and those type of road trips in the fall will be my "reward" for 35 years of teaching.  For now I'm focused on my last National Competition with my current dogs and then "rebuild" for the future Brittanys!

I respect and understand the fence riding of introspection and "Loving your neighbor as yourself" while trying to harken to the voice of The Lord and his word.  I also have worked in public schools since 1985 and have been chest deep in the "new morality" and secular society- I've become a quick read of character and motivations of individuals and groups and unfortunately/fortunately been spot on 85% of the time or better.  I actually look forward to being wrong, as my predictions usually run on the negative track.  Because of this and previous life experiences, I make decisions quickly; not that I don't weigh different sides of issues before hand.....

I think that as with all things, The Lord will provide.  Those who are right with him, but financially unable to "prepare" to the level of others will be delivered by Him, to settings/groups able to take them in where they will/can fulfill some vital role for the good of all.  We all also need to remember and heed the montra that we never know when we may be "hosting" or in the presence of angels.

He speaks to us if/when our hearts and ears are open to hear, I believe that those messages will be loud and clear in those SHTF scenarios- such as in the cases we've previously mentioned -like Lot and his family, Noah and others.

God Bless-

Mike

[Flyin6]

Good well sorted responses
I brought this up, because part of a proper prep is to know what you are going to do in response to certain circumstances. Pre decide and don't waste time thinking about it again, just execute.

Grasshoppers indeed...