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Author Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2  (Read 57877 times)

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2019, 08:09:18 PM »
The drain lever is a bit counter intuitive. You'd think you need to align it with the drain port to open, but that is actually the closed position. Came with a safety clip to keep everything where its supposed to be
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2019, 08:10:35 PM »
Next up the oil cooler line assembly was reattached after a through cleaning and coating with clear engine enamel
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2019, 08:11:45 PM »
Cylinder head time. Here's the GM Performance multi layer steel gaskets which I think are the same as stock
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2019, 08:35:33 PM »
The gaskets have a top and one of the steam holes closed off, which makes then right and left. I made triple sure I got that right
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2019, 08:37:17 PM »
I popped the dowel pins out of the old 317 heads and tapped them into the block then slid everything into position
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2019, 08:38:27 PM »
Torque to yield cylinder head bolts are a use once then discard proposition. Summit supplied these
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2019, 08:40:24 PM »
Bolts were given a spot of lube on the threads and under the heads and torqued the first pass to 22 ft/lbs
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2019, 08:43:53 PM »
Next an angle finder is fitted to a 1/2" breaker bar and used to make a second pass in sequence on a 90 degree pull. It honestly did not feel all that tight, maybe 50ish ft/lbs I'm guessing, then a third pass of another 70 degrees. This brings the bolt to the "Yield point" and is the final tightening. The inside small bolts only get torqued to 22 ft/lbs and not again.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2019, 08:44:52 PM »
And just like that, the first head is installed
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2019, 08:46:02 PM »
I repeated all of that on the second head and stood the engine upright for the valvetrain parts
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2019, 08:47:24 PM »
After applying some assembly lube the Vinci Cams chrome molly pushrods were installed followed by the stock rockers
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2019, 08:48:20 PM »
Then the rocker covers and the AC belt tensioner
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2019, 08:50:18 PM »
After sealing off the openings to protect against FOD I threw on the coil packs after applying some dieelectric grease to the weather pak connectors
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Offline dave945

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2019, 09:31:43 PM »
Looking good, Don. I’ve got basically the same engine in my 04 Express 2500. Makes me feel like I should just follow your blueprints and do a build on it. 
Or if you get bored when you’re done with yours, I’ll let you take mine apart and play with it.  :)


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2019, 11:32:18 PM »
Looking good, Don. I’ve got basically the same engine in my 04 Express 2500. Makes me feel like I should just follow your blueprints and do a build on it. 
Or if you get bored when you’re done with yours, I’ll let you take mine apart and play with it.  :)


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Dave, this isn't playing. Its some real work.
I think the payoff with these motors is huge and am hopeful for a good result
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2019, 11:36:10 PM »
So after much consideration I called Monster Transmission. We talked through this build, the power levels, tires/gears/weight/ and on and on. John over there felt the truck would benefit from their 1800-2000 RPM torque converter which is super strong and can handle more heat and abuse than the stocker.

The stocker locks up somewhere around 1500 ish so this new converter will allow me to get into some good torque to get the 6500-7,000 lbs moving mo-easilyer.

The price was good at $335 to my door.
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2019, 12:03:53 AM »
Not a bad price for a torque converter I don’t think.

Those heads sure look nice on that pretty kabota motor


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2019, 06:51:40 AM »
Looking good Don.  Nice progress.

Not sure I would have put the coils on before the install due to my luck with damaging stuff during lifting.  Be careful.
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Offline dave945

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2019, 07:35:19 AM »
Dave, this isn't playing. Its some real work.
I think the payoff with these motors is huge and am hopeful for a good result
I get there’s a lot of work, you just seem to be having a lot of fun.  I know there is a ton of potential in these engines, I just wouldn’t even really know where to start except for what I’m reading in this thread.  I think if I did anything, I might start with a donor engine, mine is at about 485k right now. Leaks some and burns some oil but still pulls strong and I’m getting about 13-14 mpg most of the time. 


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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2019, 08:59:24 AM »
very nice, as always great attention to detail. I hate when Ken's right but pulling this was the correct course.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2019, 09:12:46 AM »
Not a bad price for a torque converter I don’t think.

Those heads sure look nice on that pretty kabota motor


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Dave, I think Don slipped this in the picture to subliminally combat the Kubota engine...  :popcorn:

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2019, 09:36:12 AM »
Looking good Don.  Nice progress.

Not sure I would have put the coils on before the install due to my luck with damaging stuff during lifting.  Be careful.
I've been werkin' out. I'll just pick it up by hand and set it in there gently...should work...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2019, 10:04:51 AM »
Dave, this isn't playing. Its some real work.
I think the payoff with these motors is huge and am hopeful for a good result
I get there’s a lot of work, you just seem to be having a lot of fun.  I know there is a ton of potential in these engines, I just wouldn’t even really know where to start except for what I’m reading in this thread.  I think if I did anything, I might start with a donor engine, mine is at about 485k right now. Leaks some and burns some oil but still pulls strong and I’m getting about 13-14 mpg most of the time. 


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There are quite a few "recipes" for various purposes or power levels. Most focus on the highest HP number. which is inconsequential for a truck motor/daily driver.

We should be focused on how the thing behaves starting off at a light or pulling a load uphill and on fuel economy. I educated myself, then called Joe Vinci, the cam guy. He is all about "power under the curve" and had a cma which is making an extra 50-60 ft lbs of torque in the range I am driving. On top of that there is quite a bit of horsepower in the "passing gear" range so the engine should behave and deliver well in a driving environment and not be tempermental.

Having said that, the readily available 243 head casting with a LQ9 piston and a cam similar to mine would really be all that is needed to make quite the sporty engine for your people hauler. Be glad to help if you want. Best though if you tackle it mostly on your own, seeking advice and help where you are technically challenged. Feed a man a fish vs teaching him to fish and all that...
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Offline oklawall

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2019, 08:58:06 PM »
Don,

That is looking outstanding!! I may have to go look for something to project
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 08:59:56 PM by oklawall »

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2019, 09:57:15 AM »
Don,

That is looking outstanding!! I may have to go look for something to project
It painted and cleaned up nicely. Hopefully I can create the entire project to look well sorted through
Know this
Had it not been from input from the members on this site, I would not be at this point
I'm not sure what value you could put on good advice from knowledgeable people, but for me it is a high one
Honest and good men "suggested" I pull the motor...Which led to this. My part was only to follow the advice and do average workmanship thereafter. I'd have to give the credit to those who "Pushed" this to the point it is at
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Offline Farmer Jon

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2019, 08:59:31 PM »
I really like the oil drain valve. I have a couple of them on different vehicles.

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Offline JR

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2019, 10:34:33 PM »
Great work so far, might be your fastest oil change yet!

That pan doesn't hang down to much, right.

 :popcorn:
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2019, 07:41:47 AM »
How’s the missus?  Motor going back in this weekend?

Not sure if you’ve seen this Don, but thought you (and the others here) might like this.
https://www.automedals.com
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« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 10:01:35 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2019, 10:13:06 AM »
Great work so far, might be your fastest oil change yet!

That pan doesn't hang down to much, right.

 :popcorn:
Factory pan bro.

But yes it is deeper than the pans found on LS motors destined for cars...

And this one will not involve my pulling the body panels off, just the prerequisite cleaning and weather proofing, n' patchin'/fixin' up
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2019, 10:21:08 AM »
How’s the missus?  Motor going back in this weekend?

Not sure if you’ve seen this Don, but thought you (and the others here) might like this.
https://www.automedals.com
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Now why did you do that!??

You knew I wouldn't be able to resist!
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2019, 08:19:37 AM »
My wife went through an episode similar to that. 

Lots and lots of cat scans,theysuspected MS but ultimately settled on guillain-barre syndrome.

Means she can’t take a flu shot and a few other things but only time made it better. 


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Offline kampfitt

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2019, 09:22:25 AM »
Not to muck up Don's thread again! But small world we went thru same thing with my wife in 2000 ended up at Cleveland Clinic and she has guillain-barre syndrome also, she still has some problems today. Good Luck Don, your family's in our prayers.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2019, 03:49:57 PM »
Thank You gentlemen

I'll research the G-B syndrome and suggest it to her Dr.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2019, 10:29:15 PM »
So, have a decision to make

Justin says that if I use the stock injectors, which was the plan, along with the stock intake, I'll be limited to around 5800 RPM based on all the extra breathing ability and power this motor will produce. He recommended 8.1L injectors if I plan to stan normally aspirated, and something much bigger if I plan to pressurize the motor

Which brings me to my decision point. Those stock 8.1 Chevy injectors cost around $35-$40 ea. So I'll have to dish out $320 or thereabouts to get them, or for about the same amount I can pickup a used TBSS intake manifold setup with it's 36 pph injectors.

If I do that, then I'd also have to buy a 90mm TB, a Corvette fuel filter, do a bit of welding and some modification to get that piece to fit. On the good side I'd be up 25 HP, and on the down side, lose some lower RPM torque and have to buy more stuff.

So what's a builder to do??
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Offline JR

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2019, 11:24:28 PM »
I like the bigger injector idea and that was my plan too even though I have a 5.3.

I went to an flatter LS intake (clearance) with better injectors for the 5.7 vs the 5.3. So I now have a set of new takeoff 8.1 truck injectors I don't need.

So just a TB is the issue.
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Offline Nate

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2019, 11:24:34 PM »
My recommendation would be to stay where your at right now.....

get the motor back in, take your trip......

In the mean time get a short block and build what you want and swap once complete?
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2019, 12:07:51 AM »
I think we would gain more knowledge out of seeing what you have currently build setup will do.  You have a great shakedown trip that would be a good testing ground.  Build a second motor install later


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Offline JR

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2019, 03:10:44 AM »
Have to agree, time is an issue and still bumpers and tweeking to do. Almost 6k and 25hp won't hurt a thing.

Button it up, take care of the wifey,,,,,,,,,
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2019, 06:45:36 AM »
If I read correctly JR has some 8.1 injectors?

I’d kinda lean towards bigger sticks. I like the idea of shorter pulse width in the programming with the bigger cam and higher compression

Should help you get the most out of the motor and tuning


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #89 on: January 28, 2019, 09:02:57 AM »
Yea, when I think about it more, staying with the stock manifold will help me sort the engine as it is now, but there is a definite need for more injector. 5800 RPM ceiling is an issue, like throwing away good food, I give up horsepower I may need for passing. And another facet of the little/old injector is, what if one is underperforming due to age?? Might I run a cylinder lean? Damage it?

So it seems to make the most sense to pickup larger injectors. Stock LQ4 is 25pph. A stock 5.3 is a tad more, but a flex fuel 5.3 is 36pph, a 50% improvement. The stock 8.1 injectors are down in the upper 20's again, so i'm ruling them out. What i'm thinking is a set of 42pph which will work fine, give me all the power this tune can deliver and work in a 408" or a supercharged motor.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #90 on: January 28, 2019, 09:25:19 AM »
I doubt that you would ever use all the power that it's going to make in it's current form. You going to pass someone at 6000 revvums? Probably not. If your power range is 2-4k then you're just pissing away money.
I'd tune it the way it is, upgrade as you see the need. Injectors are easy to swap.
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #91 on: January 28, 2019, 09:30:35 AM »
I doubt that you would ever use all the power that it's going to make in it's current form. You going to pass someone at 6000 revvums? Probably not. If you're power range is 2-4k then you're just pissing away money.
I'd tune it the way it is, upgrade as you see the need. Injectors are easy to swap.

Smart. I like his thinking and didn't Ken's advice end up being a good idea when you finally pulled the motor?
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #92 on: January 28, 2019, 10:24:01 AM »
Keep it as close to stock as you can.  Put together what you have and get that sorted/put miles on it  before you leave on your trip

I know its hard to stop the urge of I need more power, but being able to pull into any NAPA and get parts is a huge plus especially when your on a trip trying to see/do things and not under the hood asking your self why you added that in the first place.

I always had to stop myself when I building the RC and not go the "I'm stranded until I get parts" route.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #93 on: January 28, 2019, 12:08:21 PM »
I hear you all, but I am going to replace the injectors.

Probably just go to the 5.3 LM7 flex-fuel motor injectors. I found some on Ebay for $100 a set rebuilt. That should be a good compromise and will fit in nicely while I am getting the Black Bear tune service.

That is no extra time, not a big change, and gets me renewed parts (Read: one more thing that might not go wrong)

Painting the bay today, going back together!

Oh and buying the tires!
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2019, 12:19:30 PM »
Don be very careful of buying "rebuilt" injectors I have had more problems with those (gas version) long term than I care to count, not saying they are bad but just be aware!  Remember middle of nowhere is not a good place to find out you have an issue.

Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2019, 12:44:23 PM »
True^^
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2019, 05:42:02 PM »
Places like Oreillys sell them all day long. But they are 3X more expensive at the "O"

So I think you guys are warning me away from the Ebay rebuilt units. New GM's are around $50 ea. Not totally unreasonable, but still quite a bit. So I'm wondering where can be found a good quality fairly priced 36-42 pph injector that will fit without a bunch of adapters and snake oil.

The argument for an injector going bad in the middle of nowhere could just as easily apply to my stockers...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2019, 05:42:37 PM »
Having a difficult time sourcing those pesky little steam pipe gaskets...Need 4 ea.
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Offline JR

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #98 on: January 28, 2019, 06:24:56 PM »
Having a difficult time sourcing those pesky little steam pipe gaskets...Need 4 ea.

I have heard that too.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 2
« Reply #99 on: January 28, 2019, 07:56:50 PM »
I thought someone mentioned those pesky gaskets a few pages back.

Here's a part number most parts stores should have: https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-Help-56390-Coolant-Bypass/dp/B000QV2D8A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548723337&sr=8-1&keywords=Dorman+Help%21+56390+Coolant+Bypass+Seal

You sayin 50 bucks for a new injector is expensive? I would trust your old 100k mile injectors more than rebuilds, especially rebuilds from the "Web experts". just sayin

Edit: the actual part # is MTM 56390
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 08:35:48 PM by KensAuto »
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