REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
TOOLS, CONSTRUCTION, ALTERNATIVE ENERGY => Hand Tools, Power Tools, Welders, etc => Topic started by: stlaser on April 04, 2020, 02:44:45 PM
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Ok, so I currently have an Eaton compressor on a 60 gal tank. It’s 5 hp motor and it’s rated 18cfm at 100 psi. I have another 60 gallon tank with compressor mount I picked up for $50 and then another 120 gallon storage tank for $200 so 240 gallon total storage. I’m considering another compressor on the 60 gallon tank and plumbing all three together. Prices are listed below for motor and compressor. Was originally thinking an identical setup to what I have. Recall I’m cheap so less is sometimes better but getting ready to setup a cabinet I have to do axle housings and parts. I am by no means a blasting expert. I don’t use much shop air other than for blasting. Thoughts?
5hp @ 18 cfm @ 100 psi $800
7.5hp @ 26 cfm @ 100 psi $1050
10hp @ 43 cfm @ 100 psi $1500
There will be a little truck freight on top of those prices in addition.
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If you are blasting big parts you need a lot. A LOT of air.
www.mediablast.com/sandblasting-compressed-air-chart
I’d add the biggest to what you already have.
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Thanks Charles, not my wallet thanking you but you get the idea.....
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Just rent a scroll compressor now and then. 125cfm can push one heck of a blaster.
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Just rent a scroll compressor now and then. 125cfm can push one heck of a blaster.
Screw compressor? Yeah, not into renting equipment. The last screw compressors we had IR were crap too.
So by using that nice chart Charles provided and going with his recommendation of bigger is best. I’d have 61 cfm available at 100 psi. Guess I should call Eaton Monday and see what they can do. I believe last time I bought motor and compressor head from them. With above figures I was sourcing motor from amazon as I couldn’t find motors on their site. Maybe they can do a package deal....
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Found a supplier of rebuilt 10 hp single phase motors. Should be able to cut $300 off the price but with a 10 hp motor and the start load I’ll need a mag starter for sure so I reached out to a friend who might have a good used one in his stash.
And the compressor head I’m strongly considering
https://eatoncompressor.com/product/10hp-air-compressor-pump-43-cfm/
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Found a supplier of rebuilt 10 hp single phase motors. Should be able to cut $300 off the price but with a 10 hp motor and the start load I’ll need a mag starter for sure so I reached out to a friend who might have a good used one in his stash.
And the compressor head I’m strongly considering
https://eatoncompressor.com/product/10hp-air-compressor-pump-43-cfm/
That's the one I am using. 4 cyl mag start, 220V 10 HP
Keeps up with everything I have ever asked of it
Sounds cool too!
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With all that storage, 18cfm sounds pretty good unless you blast all day.
My 5hp Century has kept up with my needs. In fact I am going to a kobalt (cheap) 3.7hp, 11cfm here at home now. I may add a second tank but the same setup was double the price for 2gal more.
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43cfm head is sitting in shop, came in a couple weeks ago. Rebuilt 10hp head is at terminal, that rebuild guy well the verdict is still out but atm I wouldn’t recommend him. Even his freight broker had paperwork screwed up so I couldn’t pick up last Friday. They had it as will call and delivery, not sure how that is possible? Buddy of mine sent me a spare mag starter. 60 gallon horizontal tank has been stripped and cleaned. Will need to fab up new mounts for head and motor.
Had to buy some more hockey pucks in bulk from amazon for machine isolators, they came in Friday.
Spare 120 gal tank is in loft, need to purchase black pipe and plumb shop yet.
Will add pics shortly
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You going to start jet engines?
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Roughly 63 cfm, 240 gallons of air storage so I think it will be fine..... :wink:
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63 cfm?
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62cfm at 100 psi, the new head is rated at 43cfm at 100...... :tongue:
Pretty big blast cabinet so when I was looking at it for 2-300 hundred extra I could jump about 20cfm and decided to do so.
Business has been good this spring, really blessed considering. Truck build side has been really dropping off but parts sales are double and going towards triple last years numbers so far. Along with axle core assembly and components sales exploding as well.
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As I said, starting jet engines,,,,,,,,,,
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Here is the 43cfm 10hp beast of a head
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What a beast.
... some kind of maintenance gauge on the side? Can't zoom in enough.
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Oil pressure guage
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Looks like it belongs in the frame of a motorcycle going down the road.
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Well, with a fancy c10 tying up my lift waiting on a duragrip carrier from Tate I decided to start putting the tank together to hold the compressor and 10hp motor. Added pads to bottom along with some hockey pucks. Made a trip to hardware to buy incorrect size fitting for tank drain.
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We used a 500 gallon propane tank for extra capacity. It takes forever to fill if you let it get empty. Works great using the little sandblaster and filling the huge tractor tires.
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I’ll have 240 gallons of storage plus the piping throughout the shop. That tank is 60 gal, my old compressor is 60 gallon and I have a 120 gal storage tank in the loft as well.
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Love to add another tank here and at the ridge. Been checking CL but people want stupid prices for tanks.
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I believe I paid $300 for the 120 gal unit, $50 for the 60gal in pic and a couple hundred for the other compressor tank but it was only a year old. Contractor had used it to supply air on a mansion build job so all the subs weren’t hauling their own compressors in and out etc.
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Love to add another tank here and at the ridge. Been checking CL but people want stupid prices for tanks.
I got free propane tanks out of the junk yard. They don't like to deal with them and they're pretty thick.
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Picked up correct fittings this morning, then mounted motor and added pulley. Cutting mount for compressor frame to bolt to now.
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That motor looks about like someone stuffing a Cummins in a pinto
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That motor looks about like someone stuffing a Cummins in a pinto
Real motors do, the 3.7 on my kolbart looks puny.
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My electrician says 60 amp double pole breaker...... :tongue:
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Sounds about right. A quick google foo shows in the ballpark of 50 FLA so would need 60.
That’s some serious air!
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Started lifting this 300# head into position on the mount I built and had to leave on a bit of a fummins goose chase which I’ll update later today on that thread.
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I did use a level too btw
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That motor is bigger then the whole tank. Is it going to fall over?
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The “Real Parts” sure dwarf the tank.
One monster of a compressor here!
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Naw, it will torque roll!
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Naw, it will torque roll!
That was pretty good, it’s stable as stable as 500# can get mounted to the top of a 2’ diameter tank
Went and picked up seven 10’ lengths of 1” pipe and some various fittings. Doesn’t take much to spend a couple hundred at HD
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Never does,,,,,
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The “Real Parts” sure dwarf the tank.
One monster of a compressor here!
It should get up to pressure after just two revolutions
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The “Real Parts” sure dwarf the tank.
One monster of a compressor here!
It should get up to pressure after just two revolutions
If it was only that 60 tank maybe, it’s pumping another 180 gallons worth of tank in the shop though
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Dang! That’s a 60 gallon tank. That is some large iron!
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Shawn, I think you are headed in the right direction, do it right once and be done. Air is air and the more you have the better.
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Can’t believe you didn’t just lift that compressor head up on to the tank yourself....wimp. ;-). Lol
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Can’t believe you didn’t just lift that compressor head up on to the tank yourself....wimp. ;-). Lol
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I agree Bob, Charles ten years ago I would have..... :wink: I used to load 14 bolt 10.5 axles into bed of truck by myself! Lol
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Yeah, youngster. You get older and you’ll do it just to prove you can....
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Yeah, youngster. You get older and you’ll do it just to prove you can....
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I didn’t say I couldn’t do it, I just have learned not to. Also why I’m adding another job crane to shop this summer.
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We all did that, now we use or head vs our backs.
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Yeah, youngster. You get older and you’ll do it just to prove you can....
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I didn’t say I couldn’t do it, I just have learned not to. Also why I’m adding another job crane to shop this summer.
Put a knuckle boom on the ferd flat bed, should be able to do anything you need in the shop, and more importantly, away from
The shop!!
That compressor is amazing, would be perfect on the back of a oil field truck.
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110’ of 1” black pipe cut, fitted and hung. All the overhead is done minus hanging the two reels and plumbing the tanks yet.
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Slow but sure, all the overhead plumbing is done as of this evening. New hose reels are hung and I plumbed in single drop for sand blaster cabinet.
Yesterday my local electrician wired up the 10hp motor. Just waiting on me to plumb the rest of compressor so he can finish the two wires to the pressure sensor. Waiting on some flex hose from a good friend to plumb the tanks at compressors and storage into the overhead plumbing.
Being that it’s been 90+ last several days I added a second ceiling fan in shop to help circulate the hot air down and out.
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Hope that doesn't fall on him. Heck, just the airline should add another 50cf to the system!
Have you used these quick connects? Provest is the main brand but are $15 each.
https://smile.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-DA403400-Industrial-Push-Button/dp/B06XBJ6HZG/ref=pd_bap_rp_58?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XBJ6HZG&pd_rd_r=b70acdfc-16c8-4986-b3f9-18296483bce2&pd_rd_w=QOJZH&pd_rd_wg=079BF&pf_rd_p=c25aa194-ae80-4837-964b-4db215970f69&pf_rd_r=V9KAVZCCVNYXAQDE73BB&psc=1&refRID=VBEE181FK5N6CYXA3C14
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The 110’ of 1” pipe in the shop adds a little over 4 gal of capacity.
I haven’t used those quick connects, I’m old school
I guess using the brass ones I buy in bulk.
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I know it wasn't much, bet what the heck.
I still have lots of the old school but am switching once I used them. Greasy hands are no issue and easy plug in. Probably not as durable (like dropping the hose end) being a composite housing but worth the convenience IMHO.
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Copy, may try a couple. The hose reels need the quick disconnects yet.
Going to try and get the new compressor plumbed tomorrow and v belts purchased for it. We had the motor running for a few seconds last night. Still need to wire air pressure switch once the plumbing on that tank is done. Then need to work on storage tank in loft too.
Considering building a copper water separator unit on output of storage tank prior to final line with reels and drop leg pipe for blaster. As it is now both compressors tanks are connected and plumbed to the 120 gal storage in loft. I’ll have a drain on that tank that drops down so I can drain it without having to go up into loft. Then maybe plumb it into copper water separator and have a drain on that as well. The line with reels is angled back towards storage tank currently with outputs for reels and drop leg coming out top of it via street L fittings.
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Just got my last fittings for the new comp and a little bigger pully. Using pretty much the same setup as TRN.
I may source another tank too, but people want WAY to much for them.
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Plumbed more of the compressor today, HD didn’t have much in the way of pipe stand off components so I built my own out of the scrap tub after purchasing a cheap ubolt at HD
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My buddy John (legit plumber) stopped by and sweated the main pipe in, turned out very nice I think.
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Looks good, is there a cooler?
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Looks good, is there a cooler?
I believe I posted about that earlier, so the two 60 gallon tanked compressors are plumbed together and dump into a 120 gallon unit in the loft. From that tank it goes out into the feed line for the hose reels and single drop to blaster. So I’m considering making a ladder frame cooler out of some rigid copper pipe. Then place that between 120 gallons tank in loft and feed line. As it is currently w/o that cooler air will travel 100’ before hitting final feed line.
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Why am I inclined to think that a cooler works better closer to the head where the moisture is in the hotter air?
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Why am I inclined to think that a cooler works better closer to the head where the moisture is in the hotter air?
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I don’t know, it’s above my pay grade. However, the moisture drops out as it cools. So I’d think it shouldn’t matter as long as it’s cool by the time it gets to my blast cabinet and the moisture has a place to collect prior. My 2 cents
Edit: if someone has experience in this regard I’d love to hear. I do know in our manufacturing facility the chillers were right before going into the cnc machines.
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Shawn, have you talked to eaton and got their thoughts on it?
One would think that an air compressor manufacturer would have some tips and tricks?
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Shawn, have you talked to eaton and got their thoughts on it?
One would think that an air compressor manufacturer would have some tips and tricks?
Nate, good idea and I have not. Right up until Charles brought it up I had not even considered it an issue worth discussing, thanks redneck!
I guess my thinking was it is a “closed system”. The copper pipe is a great heat sink material, keeping it away from the heat source would seem like a good idea with the added benefit I only need one instead of two as the two compressors are across shop from each other. Putting it after the storage tank allows me to run one. Only downside is it’s up high in a shop (heat rises) however it would be located near a ceiling fan for air movement in the summer and winter months.
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I’m not saying you’re wrong. Just instinct. Yes, as it cools going through the piping it should condense out some. Since you have multiple compressors it might make more sense to have one after the final joining. Maybe even a water intercooler. Copper coil in a drum of cold water.
On longer days when you needed to change out the water, you could have a toilet style fill valve and float with a manual drain valve. Every several hours just open the drain and then close it and the fill valve would take care of the rest.
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Charles, I like that idea. No water in my shop though :sad: if it gives me too much issue I’ll pony up some funds for a legit commercial setup to remove the moisture.
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From the coolers I have seen in person and the vids on youtube, closer to the compressor is better. That is were the hot-wet air is doing its thing. I like the tubes on the wall with the long runs. For my volume I am going with what Charles has. I get lots of water from my system now, need to cut it down.
That beautiful tube you have running from your head to your tank is a great place for it. Run a few cooling tubes up your walls, you will neglect the water tub.
I have heard the HF cooler does a good job for under $400. Not cheap but think what you have in that now and what you want it to do.
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I want to be able to move that compressor a little to clean etc which is why it has flex electrical lines (Most likely not shown) and will have flex hose to connect air line to tube system on wall.
We’ll see how much water ends up in the final tube run to the reels. Then adjust from there.....
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So I’ll chime in on the water thing.
The hydro plants I work in have miles of air line literally.
The coolers are all at the compressors.
The coolers all allow water to the tanks.
Critical air goes through an air dryer.
Service air just goes everywhere.
Part of the design of the piping is water drops, just a nipple off of a low point to collect condensate.
A globe valve and a plug to allow draining.
Our big air receivers, have auto blow downs on them.
Every so often (varies on 100, 600, 1000 pound air system) the auto valve opens and allows the water to blow out of the bottom of the receiver.
I wouldn’t sweat it too much, and just add a water trap nipple or drop to each tank.
Check them at some interval and see how much you actually have.
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So I’ll chime in on the water thing.
The hydro plants I work in have miles of air line literally.
The coolers are all at the compressors.
The coolers all allow water to the tanks.
Critical air goes through an air dryer.
Service air just goes everywhere.
Part of the design of the piping is water drops, just a nipple off of a low point to collect condensate.
A globe valve and a plug to allow draining.
Our big air receivers, have auto blow downs on them.
Every so often (varies on 100, 600, 1000 pound air system) the auto valve opens and allows the water to blow out of the bottom of the receiver.
I wouldn’t sweat it too much, and just add a water trap nipple or drop to each tank.
Check them at some interval and see how much you actually have.
Thanks for chiming in, yeah will have several points to drain water throughout system. Seriously considering building a water trap from copper prior to final run with three automatic auto drains at bottom of it as well. Prior to that setup I would have at least three places to trap water and drain off manually couple times a week etc.
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We ran 3/4 pex lines all over the cabinet shop, lines on the floor gave us the most water but like said before we had valves and drip lines or a T in the pipe that you could just bump the valve to drain. Worked well and the spray booth never had an issue
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:likebutton:
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Water can be a pain using tools, but you need the dry air for the blasting and painting.
Long as you get the dry air where you need it, don't fill the tanks and drain, you should be good.
I have an auto drain on mine now and adding a cooler. The less I have to think about it the better.
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Not much has been going on with this as I’ve been busy. SWHobie 16 sent me a care package which I was able to open today. Flex hose and clamps to plumb all the tanks into the hard lines. Big shout out to Seth! Thank you!
Also wired up the pressure sensor on new compressor. It turns on just need to install belts and pressure guage to see if it shuts off.
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Like to see those. Been looking at SS lines on amazon/ebay to do the same.
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So after 3 trips to HD for plumbing parts I completed the total shop air setup. Worth noting to always check ALL of the ports on the air storage tank before placing it in a corner. Do not assume all ports have plugs in them or are tight. With both compressors running (62 cfm total output) it took 5 mins to crest 100 psi in the 240+ gallon system and just over 8 mins to shut off just over 150 psi
Super stoked and yes it’s a bit loud in the shop with them both running. The 10hp is far quieter than my older 5hp for what it’s worth.
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Could always build a box around the comp. I understand the intakes can gen lots of noise, might check.
I see 1 hose clamp off the valve, is that an issue for the size line?
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JR, it’s a hose barb 1” male into valve and 1” into red hose
Shop air lines were 1” the port coming off compressor head and tank were 3/4” so had to add a reduced bushing and 3/4” valves are less than 1”
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With all that other "hardware" I was surprised to see a clamp is all. Guess as long as the rating is OK, all is good and your system.
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Actually there are 6 clamps in the system (two at each tank). The hose is rated for a lot more than 150 psi, clamps aren’t going anywhere.
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Nice! Well done.
And I’m amazed at some of those hose barb connections. Easily 300psi
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Nice! Well done.
And I’m amazed at some of those hose barb connections. Easily 300psi
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Thank you, I wanted the t bolt type clamps but supplier was out of those and these are rated high enough so no big deal.
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That's a heck of a system you have there. I'm trying not to be jealous.
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That's a heck of a system you have there. I'm trying not to be jealous.
Thank you, it was nice being able to plug into the drop airlines now instead of that hose laying all over the floor. Need to finish permanently wiring in the 4 post and other than some paint and wall shelving it’s done for awhile. Need to give the blast cabinet some love then.
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So I did a thing, small shops and equipment on rollers helps tremendously. So from some scrap angle and a set of USA casters I built a cart for my blast cabinet.
The cabinet will get loaded on this and wheeled to my buddies shop. He needs this more than I and needs my cfm of air and storage to run said cabinet. So he’s volunteered to get the older commercial blast cabinet up and ship shape.
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I should do that to a couple more things.
I have so many parts/stuff in milk buckets and all those are on HF dollies. Saves lots of work.