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Offline KensAuto

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AV Gas
« on: October 24, 2020, 11:19:07 PM »
Anyone have experience running this stuff? Other than hearing old timer stories about running it in super stocks, I have zero experience with it.

Here's where I'm headed:
I'm completely fed up with ethanol. It just doesn't hold up to our summers. I'm just going around in circles trying to keep up with everything, rebuilding carbs, cleaning tanks, injectors, etc. I suppose if I sold off all the toys and tools it would be easier, but kinda hate to do that. I haven't had great results from Stabil, and inconsistent results from Seafoam...if and when I remember to use it.
It's bad enough dealing with customer cars with these issues, so I want to switch it up on at least some of my stuff.

First I looked for non-ethanol fuel near me. The nearest non-race pump gas is 100 miles away, and only 87 octane. (I got this info from the website https://www.pure-gas.org/ which I'm pretty sure Charles recommended a long while back). Other, closer stations sell race fuel (94-110 octane, non-lead only, I think) also starting at $8/gal.

I priced out bottom of the line race gas, locally, and it's $8/gal for 94 octane unleaded, straight gas.... same company that sells to some of the stations.

Now,  the small airport 2 miles away has 100 octane leaded for $3.40/gal. I don't plan on using it in anything with a cat, just the UTVs, chainsaws, etc., and toy hauler, for storage and to feed the generator.

Any input? Seems like a reasonable cost to benefit ratio.
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Offline Mrwoody

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2020, 11:29:08 PM »
For the saws and weedeaters i use 1 gal ($8) race gas. 1 gal premium, and stabil.   I've used straight race gas in a two stroke bike but i think it needed to be rejetted as the power was off.   If you use premium the life expectancy (volatility) is more than double that of 87 octane. (as i have been told).    How much fuel are you using? and how long is it sitting between uses?   Haven't used AV gas,  but maybe a 50/50 mixture with Stabil and premium would be the ticket?

Offline JR

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 12:19:15 AM »
I have a source in Reno for non alcohol. Maverick. I use it in everything but autos now, just about .20 more too.

Have you looked at the boat additives? They have something that works on the alc.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 12:30:46 AM »
I would say that the Ranger used about 60 gallons a year. Will definitely be using more now with the General, but it has an O2 sensor, so will probably mix it to lower the lead content.
Just this year I had to redo my trencher (it sat the longest at 11 months), wrecking saw (2 stroke), toy hauler tank and transfer fuel pump, and it's generator fuel pumps and carb, walk behind concrete saw, and the shop quad car pusher, which gets used often.
Not too hip on the high octane, but seems like it would be a small sacrifice (less power).

I might just load up the spare 100 gallon transfer tank and make a road trip, and trust the gas station that offers non ethanol. Pretty sure I couldn't tell the difference until 4 months later when everything starts failing.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2020, 12:32:04 AM »
I have a source in Reno for non alcohol. Maverick. I use it in everything but autos now, just about .20 more too.

Have you looked at the boat additives? They have something that works on the alc.
No I haven't. Just now getting serious since a buddy gave me the gate code at the airport. Haha
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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AV Gas
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2020, 06:53:25 AM »
Ken I’ve only run avgas for a mix in my hot rods back in the day.

As mentioned you may have some tuning issues given the power density of the higher octane

However that website may not be a complete list. I would search for a farm fuel place near you. Most of the places I’ve bought pure fuel is at farm supply places. You may be able to schedule fuel deliver if you have a tank at the shop too.


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« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 07:00:28 AM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline Farmer Jon

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2020, 07:57:12 AM »
You said AV gas and that brought back some good old memories. I havent used that in a very long time. Not since my demo derby days.
Non ethanol gas is readily available around my area. We never use ethanol on the farm. Old tractors dont like it. I suppose in some parts of the country non ethanol its hard to find.
On the flip side wifes Tahoe is flex fuel and I cant find E85 anywhere around here. 

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2020, 11:03:28 AM »
OK, I think I can speak a little about this subject

Aviation gasoline which is widely available in 100 octane is sometimes found in octane ratings I believe as high as 130, or at least it used to be. Honestly I have no idea why since most big piston engines of the aviation sort are more torque engines running around 8:1 to 8.5:1 compression ratios. Perhaps the designers just wanted a big hedge against detonation since grenading a piston at 15,000 over the sierras would be a bad thing.

Airplane piston engines have some pretty big bores and have to produce their horsepower below 3,000 RPM and really between 2,200 and 2,600. Even with the big bores, hemispherical combustion chambers and stadium sized bores they run enough advance to require the added insurance against detonation/Octane.

Av gas is really dry and devoid of lubricants and cleaning agents. Meant to get shoved through old school mechanical fuel injectors or sucked through a carb which shares more in common with a model "T" ford than even a sixties Q-jet, it doesn't have anything that could clog up anything. Now even though modern engines have run low lead gas for some time, there are still additives that clean injectors, promote flame propagation and increase the "Bang." Av-Gas does not have any of that. In fact a lot of airplane owners have converted their airplanes over to run 87 octane car gas.

Now you can mix the av gas with 87 or even 93 depending on your desired results to alleviate some of the chemical deficiencies of the Aviation stuff.

Mostly Av-gas is created and sold as a very dry gas having and being capable of suspending very little water. Frozen fuel lines at 20,000 feet are just as bad as a hole in the cowling where a piston and rod and part of a camshaft departed the A.O. You still get to crash. The bonus is that maybe you will not be engulfed in flames while doing so.

Finally it is illegal for the airport FBO to sell av gas to anyone other than someone buying it to put into something that flies. That is easily solved when you explain you are purchasing it to carry over to your place where you fly your homebuilt or ultra light aero-plane.

Me: I had a buick grand national I ran some with a lot of boost which could have benefited, AND at the same time I owned a super cool PA24-250, 250 Piper Comanche which consumed vast quantities of the aviation stuff. But I purchased the race gas instead because of all the down sides of putting the blue stuff into things with wheels that always maintained contact with the planet.

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Offline KensAuto

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2020, 01:00:25 PM »
Thanks guys.

Don, I forgot about the dry factor. That alone affects my decision, especially on running it in the new toy. Sounds like using it in 2 strokers might be ok.

... just pees me off that my county is following the lead of the neighboring 2 by not allowing straight gas. .. Phoenix to my north, and Tucson to the south are to blame. Large cities ruin everything. Lol

Charles, I'm going to check in with some farmer buddies. ... should've thought of that.
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Offline Bigdave_185

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AV Gas
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2020, 01:28:50 PM »
I’d say simplify life and drain fuel from what your not using,

I keep 5 gallons on hand of 32/1 mixed 2-stroke fuel, 10 gallons of diesel, 10 gallons of the ethanol free stuff.  I use what’s needed and pour the rest out of things like saws or off season equipment.   Gave up on leaving fuel in tanks it’s such a pain in the butt

I understand the General should run a lot like a car that’s parked with fuel these days shouldn’t it?  Are you leaving it up north?

I also understand you have more equipment to manage.   

I did for years run AV gas or race fuel in banshees but they were either built for the compression requirements or the added power and dryer fuel was augmented with rebuilt motors on a planned maintenance program 


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« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 01:29:59 PM by Bigdave_185 »

Offline KensAuto

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2020, 04:51:51 PM »


I’d say simplify life and drain fuel from what your not using,

I understand the General should run a lot like a car that’s parked with fuel these days shouldn’t it?  Are you leaving it up north?
You're right, draining is the answer, but I don't put things away. Everything gets used, it's just in the summer when it's 110 , or more, that the crap varnishes soooo fast. Cars are just as bad. Some do it faster than others. Some start getting funky in 3 months, some 12 depending on oxygen or evaporation.

Granted I don't use them as much in the summer so maybe I need to set up a maintenance schedule to drain, just before, say in January. Lol
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Offline wyorunner

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AV Gas
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2020, 03:01:32 AM »
Ken, I have seen ethanol free somewhere in one of the East burbs of Phoenix, farming country, Gilbert area..... maybe it was queen creek. I know, not close, but may be a thing you could transfer tank when you find the blue pump?

Also, I didn’t realize you weren’t in Maricopa.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 03:02:55 AM by wyorunner »

Offline KensAuto

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2020, 10:47:12 AM »
Naw, Pinal county, which until recently was one of the wild west ones still left.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: AV Gas
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 10:19:21 AM »
Coming from the boat guy in the PNW; ethanol free with the appropriate additives as mentioned above by many has never done me wrong in the vehicles/equipment I wanted to us it in. that being said, I have had several buddies accidentally run the E/free stuff in their newer cars and have all sorts of trouble with water in the system. make sure whoever you get the fuel from has a high turnover rate so their tanks are always full and not sitting their condensating. (I know, not a word, but just felt right.)
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