REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Tires, Wheels, and Suspension => Topic started by: moto123 on June 10, 2016, 05:55:51 PM
-
Guys I need some opinions or ideas on how to get these wheels mounted.
A little background, I am sick of getting punctures in the 4 ply turf tires and I have basically no traction. The tires were shot anyway. So I found these wheels for cheap. They are the same height, a little wider and a lot heavier duty. So I want to mount them up. I originally was thinking cut out the center of the rim and weld in a solid round plate. Then drill holes where I need them. Until I did a test fit. I need about 2 inches more offset. So now I am thinking I need someone to fabricate a spacer to go from 6x150mm on the hub to 6x8" on the rim. Thoughts, suggestion or solutions?
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163654.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163654.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163738.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163738.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163731.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163731.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163501.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163501.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163546.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163546.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163613.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160610_163613.jpg.html)
-
can you cut the mounting pad out of both and weld the old into the new with the correct offset?
-
That's a really good idea. But I would still like to keep the stock rims for when I sell it someday. And keep them as extra if I somehow manage to damage these.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
-
You need to order a set of custom wheel centers, cut the stock ones out on new wheels & then weld in newly cut centers. Pm me what thickness you want them cut from, od & id measurements along with wheel mounting pattern & lug stud diameter. I can then get you a quote.
Edit: after looking at pics maybe just weld new ones in & leave old centers there as it does not appear there would be any issue doing so.....
-
There is a company near me that custom makes wheels and adapters. Give them a try. They ship all over the USA.
http://dstiresales.com/default.htm
-
http://adaptitusa.com/
I have made my own. Still run em on the elky.
-
You need to order a set of custom wheel centers, cut the stock ones out on new wheels & then weld in newly cut centers. Pm me what thickness you want them cut from, od & id measurements along with wheel mounting pattern & lug stud diameter. I can then get you a quote.
I definitely like this solution. The stock wheel center thickness is 0.2 in. The thickness on the new wheels is 0.32 in. So maybe split the difference and use 1/4 in thick steel.
OD 13-15/16 inches
ID 4-5/8 inches
Lug hole Dia 0.48 inches
Lug pattern Dia 6 x 6 in
-
Where am I shipping these too? Sorry forgot that part.....
-
That's a really good idea. But I would still like to keep the stock rims for when I sell it someday. And keep them as extra if I somehow manage to damage these.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
Naw, cut them up. Never going to get much from them anyway and you'll wear out the "New" tires
Cut the centers out of the yellow wheels, and either cut out the center disc and weld over the new wheel, of try and fit the whole center. But DO NOT cut or weld on those wheels with the tires on them!
-
I assumed I should remove the valve stems to let the tires breathe and was planning to weld about one inch each night over a week until they were done to avoid heating up the tires. You think this is sufficient or is there another reason you say to remove tires? I agree welding them fully in one shot might melt the tire to the rim.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
-
Oh and the yellow wheel centers are smaller than the new wheel centers. So it becomes complicated.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
-
Take the tires off...how pee'd would you be if one of them didn't hold air when you were done? I know how I'd feel.
...wait, you sayin that the yellow section would fall through the center hole, even if you cut it on that line outside of the holes? That sure would be the simplist way, like Don said.
-
That was my first hope for a solution. But I need 2 inches more offset. So I can't just weld the old center directly to the new center.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
-
I assumed I should remove the valve stems to let the tires breathe and was planning to weld about one inch each night over a week until they were done to avoid heating up the tires. You think this is sufficient or is there another reason you say to remove tires? I agree welding them fully in one shot might melt the tire to the rim.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
Removing the valve stems might relieve the pressure buildup, but with the rapid increase as suddenly a large area of metal heats, it might not be enough. Goggle "bonehead (substitute idiot, or redneck, or moron, recently deceased,or whatever...welds wheel with tire still installed...Kills himself and damages nearby toolbox!
Why mention the toolbox, you ask? It was obviously the only thing of value remaining after the act.
Yea, thinking about it, I'd pull the tire off there.
-
Wow ... Bridgestone has a pretty good safety video covering this issue. I didn't find the video you mentioned but the Bridgestone one clearly indicated that removing the valve stem and welding short bursts still has a high level of danger.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
-
Sorry Shawn for stepping on your toes, just throwing my $.03 in.
-
That's ok, I'll send you the bill for that outburst!
-
So if tires are so prone to exploding when heat is applied to them, why are so many people able to use a hot knife to reshape the tread? Wouldn't this set off the same reaction? Maybe it has more to do with electricity flowing through the tire than the heat applied. Not sure, just thinking out loud.
Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
-
Here are all the answers to questions about why a tire could explode.
http://www2.worksafebc.com/PDFs/investigations/IIR2005108320019.pdf
In summary, heat applied to rubber can cause it to break down and release highly flammable gasses. These flammable gasses fill the enclosed cavity between the tire and the rim. When mixed with oxygen and a heat source they can explode. The explosion is so violent that whether or not the valve stem is installed appears to be irrelevant. That opening is so small it would have very little reduction on the explosion.
The reason tires do not often explode when tread is reshaped appears to be due to the minimal amount of heat applied. However the danger is still possible.
-
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tire+cage+explosion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKlJJqHFfoQ
-
Minor update: New wheel centers are in progress and the tires were dropped off for removal from the rims. The tire guy said his machine was too small but that he would just do it by hand .... he is either very strong or highly skilled. Or just has a big ego and might end up fighting with these extra heavy sidewalls for a while. We shall see.
-
The tire guy was successful!
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160621_151533.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160621_151533.jpg.html)
-
Impressive
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
^what Charles said.
Serious dedication to hand bomb those off!
-
That's what I was thinking as well. But he made it sound like it wasn't too bad. He may have left them in the sun to soften, it was like 90 here today. So maybe that helped?
-
With the right tool and lube, most tires are not that bad.
Who is the happy kid in your pics? On a rack of some type.
-
Thats my son. I think I posted a pic of him on top of our ranger if that's what you mean.
-
I figured. Funny how climbing on something puts smiles on them.
-
Finally an update to these wheels. I received the freshly cut wheel centers a few weeks ago. Thanks to stlaser for sourcing the wheel centers. The precision is incredible. They fit exactly as tight as the OEM wheels!
I was planning to add some pictures, but it seems I have saved them off to my computer already since they are no longer on my phone. I will check the pc tomorrow.
-
Good deal! Glad I could help.....
-
Can't wait to see it. Turbo next?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
That would be fun...
-
Pictures of the new wheel centers that were test fit on the tractor axle.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_181836.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_181836.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_183239.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_183239.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_183245.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_183245.jpg.html)
Bolts tightened down. A very precise fit!
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_183405.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_183405.jpg.html)
-
Now lets see how the rims line up using the new center.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_181854.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_181854.jpg.html)
Here the rim is just friction fit onto the center. Clearances look good between the rim and the tractor frame.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_183538.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_183538.jpg.html)
Unfortunately it is clear that my impact sockets don't have enough clearance to access the lug bolts.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160707_183552.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160707_183552.jpg.html)
-
Can you just buy ten studs & loctite them in the hub then use tall lug nuts?
-
Nothing a carbide bit wouldn't fix
-
Both those solutions and also just using an angle grinder could have worked. But I wanted to have some fun with it. You see recently I helped my in-laws clean out my wife's uncle's garage. I ended up getting to keep many fine tools. One of which is an oxy acetylene torch. I have never used one before, so this was a good excuse to melt some metal. Fair warning ... I am not very skilled at it, but in the end accomplished what I needed to.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160708_162509.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160708_162509.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160708_214013.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160708_214013.jpg.html)
Test fit confirmed that I now have enough room to use a normal impact socket.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160708_214345.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160708_214345.jpg.html)
Then after some cleanup with a grinder and wire wheel.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160708_230209.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160708_230209.jpg.html)
-
Now that I was confident that it would work, I started welding in the centers. First I just tacked them in. Mounted it up and spun the wheel to measure for true. Luckily setting the wheel on the concrete floor and just using a small level was enough to get them square. The outer lip of the wheel wasn't perfectly true, but was very close, within 2mm left to right and also up/down. I think it will work just fine for a low speed off road vehicle. I started welding small sections across from each other to avoid warping it. Then over the course of many days as time allowed, they finally became completely solid.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160710_230120.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160710_230120.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160710_230058.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160710_230058.jpg.html)
The red in the background is primer that was sprayed on the backside of the stock wheel center. I know this area will be hard to paint after it's complete so I wanted to get it primed well.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160715_171308.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160715_171308.jpg.html)
I was concerned about using a 110v mig welder for this application. But after the first tests, the heat pattern on the back side of the rim appeared to indicate that I was getting sufficient penetration. So I continued with it.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160715_171311.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160715_171311.jpg.html)
-
Nothing wrong with that!!
-
Looks pretty darn good.
Heck, you gotta start somewhere with the new tools,seems like a good start.
-
That weld is W A Y good for a tractor wheel. Prime-paint-mount those suckers!
-
Well done !!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
This paint was available at my local farm and fleet, so I thought I would give it a try.
It was mixed at 8 parts paint to 1 part each hardener and naphtha. Sprayed at 25 psi with a cheapo harbor freight gun. Yet I was very happy with the spray pattern and consistency. The paint layed down smooth and thick. My second coat had one run near the valve stem, my fault. Otherwise I am happy with it. Pics don't show well but it ended up very shiny.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160718_175701.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160718_175701.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160718_175854.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160718_175854.jpg.html)
-
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160718_181430.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160718_181430.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160718_181438.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160718_181438.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160718_181443.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160718_181443.jpg.html)
-
I forgot to note that I did prime it all first.
-
Those look great
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Looks good
-
Ready for 20 years of hard work!
-
Or maybe they would only last a few days down at your farm?
-
Or maybe they would only last a few days down at your farm?
Well, that's good too, right?
-
Those look great. I think yours will last longer than in Don's possession.
-
^^^^^True!
-
Ok time to get you caught up and close out this thread since the project is complete. The rims and tires were loaded up and dropped off for reinstallation. By the end of the day they were ready to go. Again the guy somehow got them installed, by hand, without so much as a scratch to the rims. Very impressive. And for only $40, totally worth it. I think I have found my tire guy for the rest of my life.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160722_073317.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160722_073317.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160722_174520.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160722_174520.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160722_174537.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160722_174537.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_144017.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_144017.jpg.html)
-
I bolted the tires back on, well tried at least. Would you believe that the tolerances are so perfect that the thickness of the paint would prevent the new center from fitting? So I sanded the paint back off the center holes and out from the bolt holes. Once again a perfect fit. The rear wheels now made the front ones look really old, rusty and dirty. Someday I might repaint them to match. Or not, it's a tractor that lives in the mud.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_182253.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_182253.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_182306.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_182306.jpg.html)
-
Looks much mo betta!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
While I had it in the shop I added a light bar and managed to get the switch installed in a pretty handy spot. However, when Don posted those pictures of his lights I can assure you that they are actually 10 times brighter in real life. This thing puts out such a bright focused spot light that it instantly makes you blind to everything else that you used to be able to see around you. It's like looking at the sun, then expecting to be able to see the dimly lit objects next to your tire in complete darkness. If there were a way to tone it down I would probably try it. For installation on a truck it is probably excellent and it focuses the light onto the road ahead of you. For my application, two flood only style lights would have been a better choice. The other issue I found immediately was that it turns into a bug magnet. So with it located right above my head, I am basically operating in a cloud of bugs. Not ideal.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_182323.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_182323.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_182326.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_182326.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_182331.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_182331.jpg.html)
-
Looks much mo betta!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks! I should have noted that the traction with these seems to be a lot better so far. But to be fair my turf tires were totally bald.
-
So as anyone with new wheels would, I stuck it in high gear and went flying down my road at full speed. I was pleasantly surprised to find zero vibration and no tire wobble in any direction! I am really happy with this result!
Then drove back and I hooked my bucket back on and suddenly lost all steering. Someone was watching over me I think. My steering shaft tie rod end completely let go, just minutes after flying full speed down the road. That could have been a bad day.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_182834.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_182834.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_183045.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_183045.jpg.html)
So feeling frustrated and blessed at the same time, I grabbed a C-clamp and limped it back into the shop again.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160723_183802.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160723_183802.jpg.html)
-
Yep, someone was watching you. Nice job and thanks for many pics.
Can you imagine what would have happened is BD was driving it??
-
Looks good, glad they worked out for ya!
-
Yep, he was watching over you!
Me: Been a roll over, and with my luck, would have rolled over a van full of LBGT demonstrators who were also ACLU lawyers
-
That would be providence.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I was hoping the repair would be as simple as ordering a new tie rod end. However in Deere's infinite wisdom, someone concluded that it was more important to make the steering cylinder as short as possible. So the ball joint is welded to the end of the shaft. The only way to replace it is to buy an entire new power steering cylinder for $350. I decided that was stupid. So I cut off the parts and drove to the store.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160725_144717.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160725_144717.jpg.html)
They were able to size the ball end mounting shaft with a caliper. It was a tapered shaft, which I thought would be a problem. After trying several different off the shelf tie rod ends, he was successful. They had the exact correct tapered shaft, same size and thread for the nut even. The cup side of the joint was threaded, typical for most cars, but I didn't care since I was going to cut it off anyway. For all of $10 I was on my way. It even had a grease zerk!
When I got home I welded it to the power steering cylinder shaft, applied some paint, added fresh grease and checked this problem off the list.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160725_144736.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160725_144736.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160725_145437.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160725_145437.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160725_153959.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160725_153959.jpg.html)
-
More pictures of finished product. It fit perfectly. I can confirm that the steering now operates much more smoothly and without all the slop that it had previously. Since this repair I have spent about 2 hours on loader work moving countless full buckets of dirt, gravel and large rocks from a retaining wall that is being torn down. So if anyone else out there finds this, I can confirm that welding to the power steering cylinder shaft can be successful.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160725_154358.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160725_154358.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/moto123233/20160725_154406.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/moto123233/media/20160725_154406.jpg.html)
-
RMTWSSA (Pronounded "Rempt-Wassa")(Real Man Truck Works and Survival Stamp of Approval)
Congratulations, you are the first recipient!
-
Yippee ... now just need to get HR to add it to my business cards! First recipient of an award no-one has heard about. I feel like an actor or a professional athlete that gets an award for just doing their job.
-
Well, congratulations anyway!
-
Don't forget to update your LinkedIn profile too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
My father just gave out "atta boy"s and "awe sh@$"s......RMTWSSP is much more prestigious and luckily, there are no viable "smacks upside the head" in cyberspace......yet!
-
Update on the tractor. The wheels and tires are still working awesome. Unfortunately they are helping me discover the other weak points in this tractor's design. Last night the driveshaft between the engine and transaxle came apart. I was at full RPM at the time so the result was quite dramatic. After the initial explosion the engine continued to rotate the now disconnected driveshaft for a few seconds until I could get it shut down. It was flopping around and banging into everything making quite a racket.
After further investigation, the rubber motor mounts isolate the motor from the frame and allow some movement. When the tractor is pointed down a steep hill the engine can shift forward far enough from gravity to pull the driveshaft yoke almost completely off the transaxle input shaft. Without enough spline length left, they bind up and it spits the driveshaft off. Damaged several of the splines inside the yoke but luckily the transaxle shaft appears to have very little damage. Worse yet, when the driveshaft bound up it forced the engine even further forward causing it to contact the radiator. I now have large puddle beneath the tractor and will remove the radiator to examine. I suspect it is punctured.
So what did I do wrong to cause this? I can't find anything. I was operating nose down on a steep hill and only barely creeping forward. I assumed the tractor would be designed to tolerate this operating angle but apparently not. Going uphill would be fine as the engine and driveshaft are forced rearward even further onto the splined shaft.
Anyway the only reason I bothered posting is that through some internet research I have found that this driveline is a very common failure for the 2320 model. My failure didn't follow this pattern but I thought I would post info anyway. Deere forgot to include in the service manual that these U-joints need to be greased. And the design of it all is not ideal. They are very hard to get to. Lucky for you big Don, the 2720 that you have is a different design. Yours is straight from the engine to the transaxle. On the 2320 they used two u-joints to offset the engine from the transaxle which allowed a more flat operator station. I would have gladly accepted the "hump" in the operator station instead of this driveshaft. At a minimum the part alone is $685.
Anyone else out there with a 2320 please pay attention to any increase in vibration and avoid going forward downhill. There is a youtube video on how to remove the driveshaft and replace just the u-joints. This also applies to a few other tractors, I think the 2305 and 4100 series?