3+3 2500

[swbhobie16]

they kept the 14 bolts in the gas trucks for awhile. even the 2500s. they look slightly different. but still 14 bolt.

i need the wheel mating surface to wheel mating surface width. so compare to the 14 bolt that’s currently in the truck. 

[stlaser]

Copy, I’ll grab wms tomorrow for you and pics. FYI, the older ford Dana 80’s had a larger pinion bearing and full size tubes all the way out. The 90’s version Dodge axles the tubes neck down before the drum backing flange and not sure if they run large or smaller pinion bearing. Tate has that info...

Pretty sure all Superduty 80’s have full size tubes and smaller pinion bearing but metric wheel mounts which I’m sure can be overcome if needed.

[JR]

If you need measurements off a 14bt, let me know. I have one on a stand right now with discs. Some saw it is just as good as the 11.5 and it is easier to work on with way more parts. It is a shortbed right?

[swbhobie16]

If you need measurements off a 14bt, let me know. I have one on a stand right now with discs. Some saw it is just as good as the 11.5 and it is easier to work on with way more parts. It is a shortbed right?

i’ll take measurements from both. yessir.

the 14bolt i have is an 89 model (same as truck..) which i was told has a different brake setup than the earlier ones (for disk brake conversion kit) but when i swapped tires yesterday it seemed as if they were still the conventional ‘drum pressed on to hub’ setup. as opposed to the slip on version. i’ll have to confirm i got the right kit since they switched over at some point.

and yessir. well. it will be a short bed. long at the moment. but chopping the frame soon

[stlaser]

If you end up using a drum brake axle I have both setups for disc brackets

[EL TATE]

11.5 aam ALL diesel 2000+ for 2500/3500
14t corp gas and diesel 72-99, early body style, 00+ gas 2500 some 3500

getting exciting watching this all flesh out!

[swbhobie16]

11.5 aam ALL diesel 2000+ for 2500/3500
14t corp gas and diesel 72-99, early body style, 00+ gas 2500 some 3500

getting exciting watching this all flesh out!

you may can answer this.. when did chevy go from press on drums (like a front dana 60) to slip on drums (like a mid 00s super duty) bc that’s what i was basing my disk brake conversion setup off of.  now i’m questioning which one i got..

[EL TATE]

well ALL the aam's were disc, so theoretically 2000+ would have been guaranteed slide on drum style due to the hub change, as the axle bearing and seal kits for the 11.5 and 14t synched up with each other at that time. 73-87 would undoubtedly be press on hub, and here's a disc brake kit from Ruff Stuff that supports the theory, https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1877.html but you could also argue that the design change could have been in effect as early as 88, when they introduced IFS.

"Beginning in 1988, a “slide-on” style of drum was offered on the 14 bolt axle. This was considered an upgrade over the older stud-mounted drum design. However, some vehicles were produced with the older “stud mounted” style of drum after 1988. In fact, both stud mounted and slide-on drums can be found on vehicles as new as 1999."

looks like these guys make a kit for both applications: https://lugnut4x4.com/product/14-bolt-rear-disc-brake-conversion-kit-slide-on-rotors/

[swbhobie16]

something isn’t lining up right..





 

[JR]

Lines up fine, for a longbed. Always wanted a crew shortbed or Ext cab shorty (neither ever made, but seen them)

So frame cutting or longbed?

[swbhobie16]

Lines up fine, for a longbed. Always wanted a crew shortbed or Ext cab shorty (neither ever made, but seen them)

So frame cutting or longbed?

frame cutting. CCLB is just too much truck for anyone with common sense.

wait.. did i say that out loud? lol jk Tex. but yes. CCSB is the goal. should be pretty sweet i’m hoping

[JR]

Sweet

[rpar86]

Lines up fine, for a longbed. Always wanted a crew shortbed or Ext cab shorty (neither ever made, but seen them)

So frame cutting or longbed?

frame cutting. CCLB is just too much truck for anyone with common sense.

wait.. did i say that out loud? lol jk Tex. but yes. CCSB is the goal. should be pretty sweet i’m hoping

Hey now... I resemble that remark.

[stlaser]

Something else to consider. The two guys Tate listed for disc kits use China man calipers for their ebrake setups. I’m building setups for all of our disc conversion to use wilwood calipers going forward. Pricing will be competitive in comparison to the China man stuff.....

[EL TATE]

Lines up fine, for a longbed. Always wanted a crew shortbed or Ext cab shorty (neither ever made, but seen them)

So frame cutting or longbed?

frame cutting. CCLB is just too much truck for anyone with common sense.

wait.. did i say that out loud? lol jk Tex. but yes. CCSB is the goal. should be pretty sweet i’m hoping

Hey now... I resemble that remark.

so have I... twice lol.

[EL TATE]

Something else to consider. The two guys Tate listed for disc kits use China man calipers for their ebrake setups. I’m building setups for all of our disc conversion to use wilwood calipers going forward. Pricing will be competitive in comparison to the China man stuff.....

"Tate in no way shape or form endorses nor recommends said disc brake conversions. The links provide are informational only for the sole purpose of identifying year splits on hub design. In the event of an actual purchase decision, please refer to Shawn, actual expert in field with appropriate knowledge base, and pay no attention to the Tate behind the curtain" 

[stlaser]

AAM axles are also 38 spline (correct me if that’s incorrect Tate)

[EL TATE]

AAM axles are also 38 spline (correct me if that’s incorrect Tate)

That is incorrect. 38 spline optional, must bore spindles, but stock is 1.5" 30 spline and will often interchange with 14t 10.5 axle shafts.

[stlaser]

 

[swbhobie16]

keep me posted on AAM 11.5 and dana 80 widths. or.. talk me in to keeping the 14 bolt. lol

[stlaser]

Sorry, forgot to measure and get pics today. AAM 11.5 has the side adjusters just like a 14 bolt. So easier to setup than an 80 which puts shim stacks behind bearing on case. Disc brakes w/ factory e-brake setup (hard to beat) although these are harder to find reasonable. Until today I hsve not found one local under $500 and this one needs freshened up (bearings and seals).

My next question for Tate, 80 parts are big $$$$$

How are the AAM 11.5 parts in regards to price and 38 spline shafts what are locker / carrier options?

So far the corporate 14 bolt is hard to beat in regards to parts pricing and upgrades.

[stlaser]

2001 newer Dually AAM 11.5 axle measures 74.25” wms
Dodge Dana 80 mid 90’s SRW measures 70.25” wms

[EL TATE]

14t 10.5 = strong, abundant, affordable.
d80 = strong, abundant, costly.
11.5 = slightly stronger than both, abundant, costly.

the only reason I would choose an 11.5aam to put money into building up into a high performance differential is if it were already under the vehicle. the 10.5 14t is a stalwart of the industry and can really hold it's own against both of these bigger boys. The pilot bearing and pinion support prevent deflection meaning it can handle much more load than anything without one could, and there are just flat more of them to choose from.

38 spline axles on an 11.5 and spool are a great choice for a 1600hp diesel sled puller or drag truck. overkill and overspend for really anything else. 38 spline lockers don't have the room to make the side gear larger on the O.D. so the ID change to accept the larger axles compromises the integrity from the locker to the axle. which would you rather replace? additional machine work required to bore the spindle, increasing heat, reducing load capacity, on top of extra $$.

I'll put his name out there which usually prompts a sighting, but I think Norm would back me up on the 14t over the other two.

[JR]

The later model 14bt with discs I have was just $350. WMS to WMS is 68in.

[EL TATE]

The later model 14bt with discs I have was just $350. WMS to WMS is 68in.

Thank you for validating JR

[stlaser]

Thanks Tate, interesting JR as the earlier ones were 63, 67 & 72 cc, srw, dually

[swbhobie16]

ok ok. you talked me in to it. keeping the 14 bolt. now to just make sure i have the right disk brake setup.

possibly chromoly half shafts. get tate to toss a dura grip my way, new gaskets and seals. maybe pinion guard (bc i mall crawl) and call it a day! hahah

[swbhobie16]

repost in here too:

so.. i’ve been doing some reading and thinking (mostly thinking) about how to efficiently run dual tanks on the dmax. well.. not just thinking about dual tanks but also a burb tank behind the rear axle too.

i found a manual 6 port brass valve that would make it fool proof to operate (no wires) and has the return going to the appropriate tank as well. pretty slick design. but i’m not sure i want that. other thought is burb tank. pretty straight forward.  just 33 gal behind the axle.

option #3 i’m tossing around is plumbing the 2 tanks together with a single low ~1” line crossing between the 2.. 

now i know this sounds risky, but a quick glance at the truck the other day shows that the tanks dont hang below the frame.  so. thought: drill a hole in the frame close to the bottom of the channel forward on the tanks. weld bungs into said tanks and have them run across and over DS just behind tcase.

tell me i’m wrong and just need to run a burb tank, not worry about being able to carry a full size spare and need to figure out how to fill it. which would be more functional..?

[swbhobie16]

ol girl is at her new ish home. hoping to get some parts pulled off and out next week

[Bigdave_185]

Options are more useful.   With the dual tanks one can have a problem and the other still work.
Are you lifting the truck at all? Spare tire might not fit if it’s bigger than a 33 tire

Behind the seat tank?
Transfer tank in the bed?




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[swbhobie16]

Options are more useful.   With the dual tanks one can have a problem and the other still work.
Are you lifting the truck at all? Spare tire might not fit if it’s bigger than a 33 tire

Behind the seat tank?
Transfer tank in the bed?




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truck will be lifted 4-6” max. 35-37” tires.

behind seat isn’t really and option. in bed would be ok if i were keeping 8’ box, but i’m shortening to 6.5’

[KensAuto]

I am one of the guys that don't like sumps on a tank, let alone a crossover, but Don has yet to rip his out yet (sump in plastic tank) and that's saying something.

[KensAuto]

The modern valve would work, especially if you're starting from scratch. The single gauge wire from the original tank, would go to the valve. Then the 2 wires from the dual tanks go to the valve. Then a mid 80s "depress fully" switch on the dash.. I believe that 3 wires from that goes back to the valve for a total of 6.

It's been quite a few years since I worked on that style but can get a schematic if you go that direction.

[JR]

I ha all 3 tanks in my 77, saddles and a burb, loved it and used a mech valve. No return on y setup.

I like the bigger tank in back alone, heck you can get a 40 gal!

Whats wrong with cross over? Simple and you run from one tank. Use a one way on the cross overs and a small vent tube. Fill rear separately, I used a crossover to fill the saddles so only had to pump from one side.

[swbhobie16]

i’m tossing it up at the moment.

easy and decent capacity: burb tank
same ish capacity: ~32 gal with saddle tanks with either a transfer or balance line.
combined complication:all 3 tanks.

don’t know.

if the saddle tanks aren’t there, i can mount air tanks and compressor.

and with 35-37s i think y’all are right.. won’t have any way to get a spare tire under the back anyway..

[KensAuto]

32 with saddles?

[JR]

Yep, short beds were 16 each, but Ive heard of 20s stuffed. Rear can be up to 40, what I have in sub. Or build custom.

[swbhobie16]

Yep, short beds were 16 each, but Ive heard of 20s stuffed. Rear can be up to 40, what I have in sub. Or build custom.

do you have any pics of said 40 gal tank in the truck? how low does it hang/where does it fit between? any way you could determine if it would fit along with a B&W turnover gooseneck ball in front of it?

[JR]

Heres a pic of my 40gal tank on the Sub. Plenty of room IMHO.

I can get a few more, The tank seam is about an inch below the lower frame rail.

[KensAuto]

Pretty sure you can fit 20s on a crew cab. What year is this again? Carbureted? Or efi? You mentioned fuel lines on left side but only FI had those.

Edit: sure like that 40 in the back Jr.
Less likely to explode from a side impact. Haha

[Flyin6]

JR, that 40 is in the diesel Sub?

Looking at that, I got to thinking if one might not just fit in my 2002 Suburban.

Fuel capacity in that truck is not what I want considering it is soon to be a supercharged gasser which will be everything except mileage friendly. Figuring on a best of 10 MPG pulling the trailer and more likely, 8 MPG, I need a lot mo-gas to go anywhere and not have to slow down and let the zombies get me.

[swbhobie16]

Heres a pic of my 40gal tank on the Sub. Plenty of room IMHO.

I can get a few more, The tank seam is about an inch below the lower frame rail.

how does it look from a decent distance away? does it stick way down and very noticeable or is it just kinda there? i’m still thinking all this through and how much hassle i want to go through. hah.

ideally there would be a very simple solution to the 2 16 gal saddle tanks. but if not, a 33-40 gal burb tank will clearly work. and with an expected high teens possibly 20 mpg out of a tuned and deleted LBZ, 600 miles is a long way to drive on a tank..

[Nate]

I had an 86 and an 87 full size blazer that had a tank that big.  I also had a 2" reciever on the back of them, and with the receiver attached you couldn't see that it was there....but then again that may also have been because of the steel skid plate that spanned that entire area....

[JR]

I had an 86 and an 87 full size blazer that had a tank that big.  I also had a 2" reciever on the back of them, and with the receiver attached you couldn't see that it was there....but then again that may also have been because of the steel skid plate that spanned that entire area....

Yes, same on the subs. But these are bolt on recievers, not intregated into the bumper.

Having goo range is also a safety matter and you get to pick where you buy fuel.

Pics from a little further back. Tape under the lowest part, little over 18in, plus the housing so around 22in. Sub is on 32in tires with a 4in lift.

[swbhobie16]

i think i’d be ok with that. since i’ll be 35s at least and 4-6” lift. so a minimum of 3” taller. and that’s with 40 gal. could maybe but an in or 2 with a 33 gal tank.

[swbhobie16]

should i mention that i’m not wheeling this thing? lol. it’s more of a ‘how does it look’ than ‘will it drag crap’ thing. hahah

[Flyin6]

I think that will work for me as well. Have 6"-7" lift on 35's so clearance should be fine. I'd put a skid plate beneath, but a good inexpensive alternative.

[swbhobie16]

this is mighty persuasive.

only other thing i could possible consider working on is a mid 00s 1500 tank. they’re inside frame mounted, hung from above, plastic and 26 gal. just need to measure one to see what i’m working with. but at this point would be the only other alternative at the moment.

[Bigdave_185]

Does that titan tanks company not make larger tanks that you could fit?  Pretty dons burn frame is the same as the 2500 non HD frame



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[Flyin6]

Does that titan tanks company not make larger tanks that you could fit?  Pretty dons burn frame is the same as the 2500 non HD frame



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I didn't see one for the non HD because they only make tanks for diesel trucks. Some legal thing...
Anyway going from 31 gal to 50 for $1200 vs going from 37 gal to 73 gal for $400 is a no brainer.