Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4

[Flyin6]

those are gas numbers, not diesel rpms, but you have od.

No, just numbers out of a formula. Doesn't matter what motor, just numbers tossed into a calculator...
And both using a .75 OD ratio

[EL TATE]

Well I would expect a regear with the Cummins back to 411 to take advantage of the torque.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No, sorry

No more regearing.

4.10's with the stock 32" tires (or something like that) is very close to 37" tires and a 4.56.
32" tire/ 4.10 (Stock) 2261 @ 70mph
37" tire/4.56             2174 @ 70 mph

If money were not a factor, perhaps I would consider, but at the moment, I am looking at rescuing what amounts to a failed project, so planning around a minimum cash infusion, and betting I will get a lifetime of service out of a very efficient/powerful vehicle.
Lots of earlier generation (92-99) burbs have been swapped with remarkable results. Power, smoothness >20mpg figures and towing all in one package.

I concur. leave it alone with 37's.

[stlaser]

Well I would expect a regear with the Cummins back to 411 to take advantage of the torque.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No, sorry

No more regearing.

4.10's with the stock 32" tires (or something like that) is very close to 37" tires and a 4.56.
32" tire/ 4.10 (Stock) 2261 @ 70mph
37" tire/4.56             2174 @ 70 mph

If money were not a factor, perhaps I would consider, but at the moment, I am looking at rescuing what amounts to a failed project, so planning around a minimum cash infusion, and betting I will get a lifetime of service out of a very efficient/powerful vehicle.
Lots of earlier generation (92-99) burbs have been swapped with remarkable results. Power, smoothness >20mpg figures and towing all in one package.

I concur. leave it alone with 37's.

I’ll throw in my 2 cents, it’s free so take it with a grain of salt.

Several concerns with rear axle. First the driver has an admitted heavy right foot. Dura grip carrier isn’t going to love life behind that Cummins torque. Clutches will not last long, just spoke with Tate about this last week with another of my customers truck and it is a built 6.0 LS not a Cummins……

Second, greater than 20mpg with 4.56’s running 37’s. Good luck as it’s going to be spinning more than 2200 rpms unless I’m missing something. That Cummins to get the mpg wants to be cruising in 1700 rpm range.

Lastly to take advantage of the Cummins you’ll need a low stall converter 1300 rpm range so not sure if you mentioned that or what this 4L80 is currently?

[KensAuto]

Shawn he said " Have Circle-D take that incorrectly built converter back and have them build a triple disc low stall for the cummins".

[cj7ox]

Concur with ST. 2200 RPM in my 24v Cummins nets about 17mpg in my truck. You won't see 20mpg numbers unless you stay under 2k rpm, or at least I have not.

[JR]

Even the Dmax likes under 2k, or thats what the MPG, EGT and load tell me.

At 70 I see about 1900.

[KensAuto]

Even the Dmax likes under 2k, or thats what the MPG, EGT and load tell me.

At 70 I see about 1900.

1900 EGTs?

[Flyin6]

Good comments

Let me field some

Duragrip/clutches/cummins: New ground here, I have no clue what may happen or how to fix. I suppose if it goes bad I could move to a Grizzly or similar, but only after I prove the 6BT will work in application.

Note: 90% of the driving will be at 60-85mph so RPMs will almost always be below 1900

I am going to get a very low stall converter, like 1300

Maybe not Circle D since I ordered and was promised a low stall converter and actually received a 2800-3300 RMP stall unit, establishing they do not deliver what they say they will deliver.

Configuration will remain the same. Same suspension, same tires and wheels, same transmission, same 4.56 fdr

One possible change: Upgrade to torsion bars to Duramax truck bars

[JR]

No, 7-800 EGT, 1900 rpm, between 18-19mpg, 15 towing.

On the posi, I have the yukon posi and it works great.

[wyorunner]

Chief,

I know the answer is no, but have you considered having a shop do it so you can just have a running rig in a couple months?

Different note, are you intending on the factory gauges to work or are you going to run standalone? I would think you could easily install the 6BT and run dedicated 4l80e computer instead of reprogramming suburban computer which would result in a drivable suburban in shortish order. Maybe I’m just oversimplifying it though.

Controller like this maybe?

https://www.hgmelectronics.com/4l80e-transmission-controller/

We Have wanted to put one on our power wagon since beginning of build…. Just never done it.

[JR]

 

[stlaser]

Shawn he said " Have Circle-D take that incorrectly built converter back and have them build a triple disc low stall for the cummins".

Copy, I was skimming and couldn’t keep my mouth shut on the latest revision.

[Flyin6]

Chief,

I know the answer is no, but have you considered having a shop do it so you can just have a running rig in a couple months?

Different note, are you intending on the factory gauges to work or are you going to run standalone? I would think you could easily install the 6BT and run dedicated 4l80e computer instead of reprogramming suburban computer which would result in a drivable suburban in shortish order. Maybe I’m just oversimplifying it though.

Controller like this maybe?

https://www.hgmelectronics.com/4l80e-transmission-controller/

We Have wanted to put one on our power wagon since beginning of build…. Just never done it.

Something like that T,

Stand alone controller

4L80E

3 clutch low stall converter

6BT 400 HP build. I think that uses a stock turbo

Same gears

Have to reset driveshaft lengths

Figure out how to repin harness to take direct readings from 6BT

Use tach adapter from alternator

Use as many stock Ram parts as possible, and stock D-max radiator and intercooler

Dirt simple and easy is what I want

[Nate]

So what your saying is that you will source the parts and then stroke a check to have it done the right way?

[wyorunner]

So what your saying is that you will source the parts and then stroke a check to have it done the right way?

Yea this is what I want to do! Never gonna happen for us, but I like the idea.

[Flyin6]

So what your saying is that you will source the parts and then stroke a check to have it done the right way?

No,
I will do it the right way
No one out there installs a 12 valve into a suburban of this vintage so who would I hire, exactly
The quality of work I see coming out of most shops is terrible.
I do much higher quality work
I am attempting something that has not been done to my knowledge. Earlier generation burbs, there were several, but this series, no and none beyond
No one would know any more than me about this anyway
Just look at the advice I get,
Things like Put an allison in it
Well, the allison would require a stand alone computer to get that to work with a cost of around $3,000
But people think you can just toss an allison in it
I am sidestepping all the nonsense and just going to the most simple setup I can think of. So simple that's its basically just installing parts. The only technologically challenging part will be to pull apart the harness to make it fit with the new engine.

[stlaser]

Most shops……. 

Ken he must be talking about you again…..



 

[JR]

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

[stlaser]

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.

[cj7ox]

If you want simple, Big D, hang a manual behind that Cummins. Then you won't need a 'puter. Just sayin'. 

[rpar86]

If you want simple, Big D, hang a manual behind that Cummins. Then you won't need a 'puter. Just sayin'. 

Annnnd we’re back to SquareD. ;)

[JR]

Well, Don does like changing fluids.

[Flyin6]

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.

Please share!
I need all the info I can find. This is going to be a big one for me.

[Flyin6]

If you want simple, Big D, hang a manual behind that Cummins. Then you won't need a 'puter. Just sayin'. 

Thought/thinking about it, but it would involve the removal of that handy console and carving up the floor board. Not a fan of either.

Oh, and see ya in a bit more than a week!

[stlaser]

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.

Please share!
I need all the info I can find. This is going to be a big one for me.

The threads or diesel conversion specialist?

[TexasRedNeck]

https://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/

Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way.  DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary.  Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.

I’ll shut up now.  CM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JR]

TRN makes sense, I won't be quiet,,,,,,,,,,

[Flyin6]

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.

Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?

No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.

Please share!
I need all the info I can find. This is going to be a big one for me.

The threads or diesel conversion specialist?

The actual threads pretty please

[Flyin6]

https://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/

Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way.  DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary.  Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.

I’ll shut up now.  CM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are correct and spot on with all your points
However
The cost of doing such a conversion is stifling, ridiculous, really
So, although I would probably go that route should money be of no concern, it actually is
So the 6BT 12 valve makes the most sense...Or just sell the vehicle as is. But who would want a fast fuel sucking suburban?
Exactly!

[Nate]

https://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/

Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way.  DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary.  Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.

I’ll shut up now.  CM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are correct and spot on with all your points
However
The cost of doing such a conversion is stifling, ridiculous, really
So, although I would probably go that route should money be of no concern, it actually is
So the 6BT 12 valve makes the most sense...Or just sell the vehicle as is. But who would want a fast fuel sucking suburban?
Exactly!

i may have asked this question already, but CRS is starting to creep in...

have you ever called duraburb and just had conversation with them about conversions? and if they had any info or sources for a DIY'er?

[JR]

You know, there are enough conversions out the that they come up for sale often. Prices aren't that bad either.

All you would have to do is the "Don" stuff.

[dave945]

You mean like this one?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/442640137436017/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JR]

That is a sweet burb and a fair price.

[Flyin6]

https://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/

Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way.  DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary.  Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.

I’ll shut up now.  CM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are correct and spot on with all your points
However
The cost of doing such a conversion is stifling, ridiculous, really
So, although I would probably go that route should money be of no concern, it actually is
So the 6BT 12 valve makes the most sense...Or just sell the vehicle as is. But who would want a fast fuel sucking suburban?
Exactly!

i may have asked this question already, but CRS is starting to creep in...

have you ever called duraburb and just had conversation with them about conversions? and if they had any info or sources for a DIY'er?

I called them a long time ago. They were no longer doing the 2002 generation conversions

But talk about cost. I'd be $25K-$30K for a nearly stock conversion. Build the trans +$5k. Add new this or that on a well used engine and before long you could find yourself flirting with $50K. Even half that is nuts.
The duramax conversion is priced beyond all measure of common sense. It won't happen

[JR]

You've already spent that much,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(fired)

[Flyin6]

You've already spent that much,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(fired)

Naw, you're not fired for that

I just don't like you anymore ;-))

(Read: Easier to get fired...)

[longball]

Here to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html

Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KensAuto]

Here to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html

Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If a supercharged 6.0 won't make him happy, I doubt that will longball.

My recommendation would be to drive it as is, while it still runs. A 12V might give you power and mileage, but long distance trip comfort? (will it even fit around an independent front end without major work?) Not going to be happy imo.

But alas, Big D still has a nice truck that's capable of towing a nice trailer... I heard there's one rotting away on a farm somewhere.

Do I get a severance package?

[Flyin6]

Here to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html

Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If a supercharged 6.0 won't make him happy, I doubt that will longball.

My recommendation would be to drive it as is, while it still runs. A 12V might give you power and mileage, but long distance trip comfort? (will it even fit around an independent front end without major work?) Not going to be happy imo.

But alas, Big D still has a nice truck that's capable of towing a nice trailer... I heard there's one rotting away on a farm somewhere.

Do I get a severance package?

NO

[TexasRedNeck]

I’ll leave this here.  All the parts you need for $5000, pull a Sam and freshen and leave it close to stock (60hp tune) and you’ll be a duraburb for less than $8000

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/pts/d/claremore-66-lb7-duramax-4x4/7411835220.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[longball]

Here to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html

Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If a supercharged 6.0 won't make him happy, I doubt that will longball.

My recommendation would be to drive it as is, while it still runs. A 12V might give you power and mileage, but long distance trip comfort? (will it even fit around an independent front end without major work?) Not going to be happy imo.

But alas, Big D still has a nice truck that's capable of towing a nice trailer... I heard there's one rotting away on a farm somewhere.

Do I get a severance package?

I thought it still wasn’t running properly and nobody could figure it out. If it’s running the way it should, just not enough, I retract my previous suggestion. See y’all in 2022 and Merry Christmas!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KensAuto]

Merry Christmas and see you next time!

[Sammconn]

I know the 2007 stuff won’t play nice with the 2002 stuff.

But I got a whole truck with all the everything. 
I think all the cluster sizes possibly the same. If not while dash change should fit.
Chevy really hasn’t been that injeneuative over the years.

It’s still here.
If you start leaning this way you know where find me.

[Flyin6]

This thing as is, is just not working!
The D-max swap is looking like the only option other than just canning/selling the project.
We drove it again and it's just not there for me. Uses a lot of fuel and for a supercharged vehicle, not much power. Enough, just not a lot more. And pulling something?? I'm thinking not so much. GM should have just made them all 8.1's and called it a day. Same mileage and 50% less power for the 6.0 is dumb.
And its all 6.0's. I owned a Hummer H2 that limped around getting 10mpg. That 6.0 aluminum Vortec-Max my son drives only gets 11-12. HE is selling it.
I'll say the 6.0 is a good solid motor, but I'll also it gets poor mileage and doesn't make much torque at all. My final analysis is that it is not a good working truck engine at all.
The D-Max, on the other hand is a dream. An always present abundance of power and great mileage. Win-win.
I would not attempt a D-max swap, but in this case with $60K invested into a $15K vehicle there is just too much cash to lose, so I am stuck with getting that truck working.
Pretty sure the gasser route is a bad idea, so that will be coming out if I don't sell it.
Having said that, there is a gentleman who may purchase it, but he doesn't want to pay anything for it, and I am not one to throw that big of an investment away.

[JR]

With all that in mind, why not keep looking a for a Dsub or a doner to have someone do the work in the long run. Or just look for an 8.1?

I have seen the LBZ for well under 10k, but normally around 20+. Dsubs for around 20k.

Nothing you have done has been a bad idea, its outcomes that seem to be the challenge.

[stlaser]

Sell the burb, cut your losses and build another with the duramax

[Flyin6]

With all that in mind, why not keep looking a for a Dsub or a doner to have someone do the work in the long run. Or just look for an 8.1?

I have seen the LBZ for well under 10k, but normally around 20+. Dsubs for around 20k.

Nothing you have done has been a bad idea, its outcomes that seem to be the challenge.

JR, Why have someone do the work?
Well within my capability
Added cost of labor would make that concept impossible
The only way it would work is to strip the gasser components out of the burb
use that vehicle because it is in perfect condition
and has a literal ton of useable parts
Secure a donor vehicle
Recon all the parts coming out of the donor
and do the transplant myself
Do all that over say a year or so to spread out the labor and cost and then
possibly
I could get it done

Problem with all that is time, of course. I am getting (staying busy) with life. Family stuff with all these kids/grandkids takes its toll. I am right in the middle of publishing a new book, and that will lead me toward writing two more to finish this story. I started speaking at churches, giving talks to men's ministries again, this castle Kat built is always falling apart and needing nearly constant attention, I am building a cabin down farmside, I want to get some of that fenced in for a couple of cows, and maybe do a little travelling here and there.
Can I fit it all in? Yea, certainly, but only by shoving something over.
But adding tens of thousands in labor costs to the project is not the way to get it done

[Flyin6]

Sell the burb, cut your losses and build another with the duramax

...And get rid of that cool 14 bolt you built for me???
Never!!!

[cj7ox]

Have you considered a Gear Vendors over/under drive? Wouldn't help for towing or off road, but would provide an additional overdrive gear for daily driving. That might get your MPG numbers to where you want them.

[JR]

Don, I have no doubt it is with your capabilities. Another project, no problem as you KNOW the outcome will really be what you wanted from the start.

Not to rub it in, but there are a few hints alone the way urging the dmax all along. Kinda like the rear end which ended up being a nice solid 10.5.

No OD needed, just go with the cheapest doner you can get. Even the older 5sp ally has an update to 6sp OD.

I think the hardest part will be getting the ally in there, farm out the harness.

For what you have done to the current motor, it should fetch some coin.