AEV Gladiator Rubicon

[Flyin6]

I actually installed the battery yesterday. Today I drove the jeep doing numerous starts and stops and utilizing electrical accessories.

Everything is working fine with no additional warning lights.

It may be just me, but I'd have to say, the Jeep is feeling a bit more "Sprightly" and eager in the acceleration department.

So far I have lost 66 pounds from the front bumper. I lost nearly 100 from the rear seat delete. I lost around 20 from the exhaust swap. I lost another 20-something from removal of the heavy AEV lights. I just tossed another 30-odd pounds with the battery swap. All total I'm down from 230-250 pounds so far.

I likely picked up some weight from the new suspension, but the electric running boards were a 1 to 1 swap from losing the Rubicon rock rails.

I am not sure if the Icon wheels are any heavier or lighter, I'd have to check that but it's looking like.

But driving it, well, it just responds better. I am happy with this most recent change

[JR]

As long as you like it. Now do the LS.

[Flyin6]

As long as you like it. Now do the LS.

LT, you meant to say LT... ya know all the electronic wizardry it does over the Hemi plus having 10 gears to be thinkin' about while driving up mountainsides.

[JR]

Hemi was mention but I recall LS thrown out too?

[Flyin6]

Perhaps, JR you are lumping the LS engine and the newer LT together? I'd opt for a 6.2-tuned LT and a 10-speed. That will deliver 500+ HP and 25mpg. It is a direct injection whereas we know, the LS is a port injection. LT has cylinder deactivation from 8 down to 2 in stages, I think. It has VVT and a ton of other improvements that make it a clear choice if I'm dumping 30K for something like this.
But is it worth it?
Well, I can say for everything I'd like to do, yes. I feel the Jeep Gladiator is the best off-road adventure platform made in the world. 1/2 ton chassis, and solid axles. I have electric lockers, a disconnecting sway bar, and decent axles. The approach/departure angles are great although breakover is a tad lacking, but with a V8, I could then tow my overland camper and have a complete package. With the V6 the power to pull 4K just isn't there unless I want to be running down two gears and getting 12 mpg all the time...I don't.
I am considering a big change to how we live, and if I do that, then the door opens to create a Chevy V8 Gladiator.

[Flyin6]

So more driving today and in the rain this time. No dash lights or anything is out of the normal so far resulting from the Lithium battery installation.

[JR]

Thats good news for the battery swap.

LS is way easier and cheaper.

[cj7ox]

Thats good news for the battery swap.

LS is way easier and cheaper.

Hemi would be easier than LT ot LS. Probably plug and play since they already offer it. Be aware that those axles may not hold up to V8 horsepower. ;-)

[TexasRedNeck]

I believe I called the hemi swap close to day one…..


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[TexasRedNeck]

Love you brother. All in good fun. Here’s some temptation.

https://www.rubitrux.com/wrangler-jl-gladiator-jt-6-2l-hellcat-srt-supercharged-hemi-conversion-swap.html


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Proof

And there is a much cheaper 37k option with a 505hp 6.4 with warranty….
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[Flyin6]

Thats good news for the battery swap.

LS is way easier and cheaper.

Hemi would be easier than LT ot LS. Probably plug and play since they already offer it. Be aware that those axles may not hold up to V8 horsepower. ;-)

I've done some checking

The stock axle assemblies with upgraded forged axles are all that is required for the base 6.4 505 hp hemi swap. For anything north of that, they replace the rear with a 60.

[Flyin6]

Love you brother. All in good fun. Here’s some temptation.

https://www.rubitrux.com/wrangler-jl-gladiator-jt-6-2l-hellcat-srt-supercharged-hemi-conversion-swap.html


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Proof

And there is a much cheaper 37k option with a 505hp 6.4 with warranty….
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Ya you did...

That hemi swap here is right at $30K

I think the swap into the 6.2 LS3 is a little less than that if you bolt the Mopar trans onto the LS.
I think the whole system comes to life with that 10-speed, and that requires an LT engine.
The installation looks stock. Everything is where it should be.

[TexasRedNeck]

Psy-ops.  It’s working.

In my humble opinion, as the guy who is not writing the check, I would stick with Mopar. Everything just fits together and works and resale value will probably be higher.

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[Bigdave_185]

Psy-ops.  It’s working.

In my humble opinion, as the guy who is not writing the check, I would stick with Mopar. Everything just fits together and works and resale value will probably be higher.

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Well we can assume the resale of this jeep will be? Six-eight-twelve months?


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[stlaser]

Don, let’s just save you the time & headache. Sell this gladiator and I’ll set you up with my good friend JB who happens to have a new gladiator with dynatrac axles and a helephant engine installed by Dakota customs. It’s supposed to go across block at mecum Indy shortly w/ a reserve but I’m sure you two can come to an agreement and by pass mecum. It has every option available and hardly any miles since swap.

[Flyin6]

Don, let’s just save you the time & headache. Sell this gladiator and I’ll set you up with my good friend JB who happens to have a new gladiator with dynatrac axles and a helephant engine installed by Dakota customs. It’s supposed to go across block at mecum Indy shortly w/ a reserve but I’m sure you two can come to an agreement and by pass mecum. It has every option available and hardly any miles since swap.

Well, I can't
I just glued all my unit patches to the ceiling of mine...Have to keep it now.

[dave945]

Don, let’s just save you the time & headache. Sell this gladiator and I’ll set you up with my good friend JB who happens to have a new gladiator with dynatrac axles and a helephant engine installed by Dakota customs. It’s supposed to go across block at mecum Indy shortly w/ a reserve but I’m sure you two can come to an agreement and by pass mecum. It has every option available and hardly any miles since swap.

Well, I can't
I just glued all my unit patches to the ceiling of mine...Have to keep it now.

I thought it was all supposed to be velcroed on so it could be sanitized on short notice for such an occasion as this…. ;)


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[JR]

 

[Flyin6]

Don, let’s just save you the time & headache. Sell this gladiator and I’ll set you up with my good friend JB who happens to have a new gladiator with dynatrac axles and a helephant engine installed by Dakota customs. It’s supposed to go across block at mecum Indy shortly w/ a reserve but I’m sure you two can come to an agreement and by pass mecum. It has every option available and hardly any miles since swap.

Well, I can't
I just glued all my unit patches to the ceiling of mine...Have to keep it now.

I thought it was all supposed to be velcroed on so it could be sanitized on short notice for such an occasion as this…. ;)


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Velcro wasn't stickin'!
Yesterday I walked into family's restaurant in Walton to have B-fast with an Armee friend.
He pointed out there was something stuck to my hiking boots
...
It was one of the leather nametags that I had worn for years and had been "Velcro'd to the ceiling of the jeep
spray glue
Problem solved ;-)

[Flyin6]

Fuel mileage check: 18.66

Operations are still normal after the Braille battery swap to Lithium.

I have now driven the Jeep numerous times. I have driven all manner of roads from slow zones at 20mph, up to 70mph highway runs. I did a couple full throttle blasts and a fair share of idling. Nothing is any different from what it was before I was Lithium-ized.  ;-)

[Flyin6]

Don, let’s just save you the time & headache. Sell this gladiator and I’ll set you up with my good friend JB who happens to have a new gladiator with dynatrac axles and a helephant engine installed by Dakota customs. It’s supposed to go across block at mecum Indy shortly w/ a reserve but I’m sure you two can come to an agreement and by pass mecum. It has every option available and hardly any miles since swap.

Well, I can't
I just glued all my unit patches to the ceiling of mine...Have to keep it now.

I thought it was all supposed to be velcroed on so it could be sanitized on short notice for such an occasion as this…. ;)


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Dave, Proof:
and
Can you see anything "different" in the pix????

So, we used to do "Party jackets" like the Navee guys wear. You would purchase an A2 bomber jacket, then over the years sew all your patches all over it. My old one had my son looking like a clown, so I cut the patches off and glued them up there and to the ceiling of my Ram 3500.

[dave945]

Why’s the Green Hornets badge upside down in relation to the others?


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[Flyin6]

Why’s the Green Hornets badge upside down in relation to the others?


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Good Eyes!
No kidding...
Because it's the only Air Force patch up there!
When I was driving MH-47's for the regiment, our sister unit was the 20th SOS, 15th Air Force at Hurlburt.
They gave me that patch
So I have it a bit opposite from all the other Armee patches... ;-)

[Flyin6]

Mileage check: 17.67 calculated after nearly 200 miles.

Again, I look to refuel at the best opportunity (Costco) after it drops below 1/2 tank.

[Flyin6]

I wrote to Oliver at braille battery and asked for a comment regarding how they are avoiding the AGM charging profile ill-affecting their Lithium battery. Here is their reply:



Hi Don,

Hope all is well and you're F34 experiment is going smoothly! I've been following your write ups and it seems like it's a success so far.

I'm currently out of the country traveling at the moment, but Oliver gave me a ring this morning and asked me to take a moment to respond to an email you sent last week. Sorry for the late response!

The main worry with using an improper charging profile on lithium batteries relates to the heat generation inside the cells themselves during charging. Many lithium chemistries struggle with handling heat buildup, but Braille Battery cells use lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), which is a much more thermally stable chemistry. We also use cells that are designed for power applications rather than energy storage, which allow them higher charging and discharging rates with less heat generation.

Hope this helps clear things up! Feel free to send me any more technical questions you have, and I'll do my best to get back to you ASAP.

Regards,
Sean

[JR]

Sounds like the tech is up to the task so far.

[Flyin6]

I am working on a link to click through to buy the batteries here at a discounted price. No guarantees, but maybe

[Flyin6]

Fuel mileage check: 16.42.

It has come down because I am driving it a bit faster. I'm tired of being passed by everything, and by the bird strikes (They keep running into the tailgate while I'm on the highway ;-)

[Flyin6]

Another fuel mileage check: 16.5

This motor continues to underwhelm me. Just had the first oil change at around 5,000ish miles. Had the 4th tire rotation. They did a 5-wheel rotation which was pretty cool. All this is a part of the "Jeep-Wave" program which is free for a total of three oil changes and tire rotations.

[wilsonphil]

HEMI   be the man feel the power and I bet you get pretty close to the same MPG

[Flyin6]

HEMI   be the man feel the power and I bet you get pretty close to the same MPG

Sez the Mopar man!

[JR]

Its only money,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[wyorunner]

HEMI   be the man feel the power and I bet you get pretty close to the same MPG

Sez the Mopar man!

Isn’t the hemi an option in this thing? Or is it just the aftermarket kit that one can bolt in?

[Flyin6]

HEMI   be the man feel the power and I bet you get pretty close to the same MPG

Sez the Mopar man!

Isn’t the hemi an option in this thing? Or is it just the aftermarket kit that one can bolt in?

There is a JL 392 hemi option, but not for the JT

[cj7ox]

Should be plug and play, though, with the hemi.

[Flyin6]

Should be plug and play, though, with the hemi.

That is the biggest advantage of doing a HEMI

BTW, had a surprise today. After driving to/from the farm a couple of times, I actually just got 20.12 mpg for the last tank, and post oil change from a fresh fill.

[Flyin6]

Well, guess what happened?

The battery failed!

Came right out of the blue, and I do not know what caused it, but here's how it happened:

I took the truck to Zimmer Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram for a recall. All they were supposed to do was to reflash the computer, which they did. It was only at the dealer for about 1.5 hours. We picked it up, then drove it around some, then parked it for the night. The next morning the thing was completely dead. There is no jumping or starting charge for lithium like with a standard battery, so I ended up charging it all day long. At the end of the day, it still was not showing a full charge using the supplied Braille Lithium battery charger, but the engine started and everything operated normally.

We drove it to go out to eat, then parked it, Saturday night. I got up for the early Sunday church service and it was completely dead again. After church, I applied the battery charger once again and after charging it all day, it would not accept a charge and remained dead.

So now I have to wonder what happened? Did the Jeep people turn something on in my Jeep that is draining the battery? Did they hook up a conventional charger to the thing? Did someone cross some wires damaging a cell or two? Or did the battery just die of unnatural causes?

Well, there is a bigger issue in sharp focus here. You see, whatever killed the thing, the elephant in the room is the fact that the Jeep failed to start. So, suppose I was 50 miles up inside the Daniel Boone National Forest and woke up to this? The battery although feather light failed to be reliable. Now, we will investigate the thing to see if we can determine what happened, but in my view at the moment, it has failed the reliability test. That means it may well be too fragile for automotive day-to-day service. I am not completely sure about that, but I sure can point to a dead Jeep in my driveway! What does that mean you ask?

well, despite my stated parameters of reducing weight in the JT, I must first and always have reliability. That means I cannot simply replace the Braille battery with another Lithium unit. It means I will have to call this test a failure for reasons unknown and switch back to an AGM battery. I am disappointed, but it is what it is I suppose.

[Atkinsmatt]

Glad you found it this way

[JR]

Weird, i just put a lithium battery in my sxs too. I left a solar charger on it. Has a meter to show voltage (13.1v)

It was pricy, about double that of a standard battery but it has double the cranking amps.

[Bigdave_185]

I have a few lipo batteries in motorcycles and in the large RC cars.  The charging system is very temperamental, if someone shocked the battery with improper power it could have damaged

Jr using a solar charger for his battery is not a good idea.

Lipo batteries do best when “Balance” charged not just charged.  The high end chargers with charge the cells to all match.

 


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[JR]

Its a cheapo 60w panel. I have been using 200 watts on my 200 amp hour Lifo at the ridge. 30 amp charger and the batteries have a BMS.

Don, what does the company say?

[Flyin6]

Its a cheapo 60w panel. I have been using 200 watts on my 200 amp hour Lifo at the ridge. 30 amp charger and the batteries have a BMS.

Don, what does the company say?

Oliver, their sales director is keen to get it back. I will be shipping it to their Sarasota location for an analysis of what happened.

[Flyin6]

So, what battery now?
Optima red top is in the low-mid 40's
Optima yellow top is like 38 lbs., so some weight savings over the stocker.
What else?
Has to be lightweight...

[JR]

So this is not the starter battery, just one that keeps all the electronics happy, right?

Looked at oddesy?

[TexasRedNeck]

I think you are being ounce wise and pound foolish. Save weight somewhere else. Get a good battery and put the second OEM one back in too. It was designed that way for a reason.

My humble opinion, sir.


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[Flyin6]

So this is not the starter battery, just one that keeps all the electronics happy, right?

Looked at oddesy?

No, I only have one battery. Deleted the small one some time ago. I have only been using the one for everything.

[Flyin6]

I think you are being ounce wise and pound foolish. Save weight somewhere else. Get a good battery and put the second OEM one back in too. It was designed that way for a reason.

My humble opinion, sir.


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Appreciate the feedback, but two batteries are not necessary for my setup.

With the start/stop feature and heavy city driving with lots of those ESS events the main battery becomes depleted. Jeep actually installed a 1000 CCA AGM in there just for that reason. When the voltage is being pulled down, the semi-isolated second battery keeps the voltage stable for the myriad of electronics. By simply deleting the second battery, there is no need for either an auxiliary battery nor a massive diesel-sized main battery. Real-world requirements for the V6 are around 750 CCA and a 60-75 minutes reserve amp...

The Jeep also has a very large alternator for faster recharges, so again it harkens to a far smaller/less capable battery for normal operations. Now in my case with deleted ESS, but with a voltage-sucking 12,000 lb. winch, my needs point to something with decent CCA but pretty big reserves. The Braille F34 Lithium fits those needs with truly massive CCA and acceptable reserve power, but Lithium can't stay around as long as regular batteries.

A lithium battery is considered 100% discharged right below 10 volts. Lead acid and AGM are not dead at 10 volts. They will still click a starter or run a radio of wind in a winch cable at 10 volts. I think that is the principal reason I need to switch back to a good AGM.

So, although I agree with your statement in context, the devil is in the details, and what Jeep engineers designed is no longer exactly what I am operating.

[JR]

Odessey

[Flyin6]

^^^^^^^^^^   YES  ^^^^^^^^^^

So now I'm all back in it and having to review my "Battery 101" notes. I drew those notes with crayons on aged tree bark, so it has been a while!

I know I need somewhere around 700 ish CCA (Cold cranking amps). But reviewing technical battery specifications that number can differ greatly from what the battery can actually provide for 5 seconds. A typical performance AGM battery with 750 CCA can also provide somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200-1300 amps for 5 seconds.

So, I'll say 750 is a good CCA number to hold onto.

Another number I feel is important is the number of times the thing can be almost fully discharged and still recover. I want that number to be a big one. I am finding that Odyssey batteries will cycle some 400+ times. That is fully charged to below 10 volts.

I also think Reserve capacity measured in minutes is important. My notes tell me that is the time (expressed in minutes a battery can maintain a 25 amp draw and remain above 10.5 volts. Most of the "gooder" batteries will all rate something past 2 hours. Again, the Odyssey is coming out on top.

Finally, weight is a concern. Well, they are all heavy, so that consideration is one that will have to move to the back row in lieu of performance.

Now, I discovered something else of concern. That is the metallurgy of the thing. Almost all AGM and lead/acid batteries use lead alloy. But this Odyssey stands alone (Almost) in that it uses pure lead plates. So why does that matter you wonder???

Well, a thinner plate of the pure stuff will make the same juice as a thicker lead alloy plate. So, you can have fewer thin plates and less weight to make the same power as the alloy batteries, or you can have more plates and generate more electrons at the same weight, a bunch more.
So now that I have moved from early in the investigative process to a place where I went from stupid, through "Just plain dumb," and have arrived at, "having a clue." There is danger here as a small mistake will make one "clueless," and I don't wanna be that poster child...

So I'll still investigate but for now, the Odyssey AGM48 H6 is a good choice @ around $310ish from a couple of places after a search.

[JR]

Many Lifo batteries have a BCM, which saves the battery from over charging and discharging, plus you get the weight savings you want. Was you other battery a Lipo or Lifo with BCM?