Bear Country

[Flyin6]

This year's big trip Kat and I will (hopefully) be embarking on will cross the northern/central states ending our western travel in Montana. From Billings, we will move south into Yellowstone then further south into the Wind River Range of Wyoming. We have some planned camping at Lake Fremont near Pinedale, Duane's hometown, then off to venture through the range and the Teton National Forest.

We have been watching the bear activity there for about a year. We get information from the local newspapers and are surprised by the number of bear encounters and attacks. I started another thread about which weapons to carry and have settled on a S&W 629 .44 magnum in an old-school cowboy holster that carries 18 additional rounds on belt loops.

After reading a lot of information and hearing testimony from actual bear shootings, the guys who successfully killed a Brown Bear used bullets they refer to as "hard tack." Although I haven't purchased the S&W 629 yet, I have purchased some .44 magnum bear loads. They seem to be set for a more minimal expansion. They are built to dive deep into the flesh and have the power to destroy joints. It seems the successful bear shootings started by blowing up the animal's shoulders, arms, pelvis, or legs. Kill shots are in the head once it stops moving enough.

My research also tells me that Teton-based Grizzlies are more aggressive than the Alaska brown bears. Well, Kat is all worried about this and is watching bear-attack videos nonstop. She now wants to buy herself a sidearm for the trip. She is not a big girl. She has small wrists and I have known from the start that a .44 was going to be a real challenge for her. But you need the power to stop the animal which stands 6-7 feet tall and weighs 600-700 pounds and is almost as fast as a deer.

So, I am now thinking about what sort of a sidearm would fit her. A 10mm automatic comes to mind, but man, I want her to shoot a .44 herself, so there's that.

Secondly, we have not located a .45-70 after months of searching. I want a Marlin Trapper but may accept a Henry. I can't help but think my good old Mossberg 930 with slugs might not be the right base camp protection gun. After all what can stand up to a 1oz slug?

Thoughts?

[stlaser]

Hard cast bullets (recommend buffalo bore ammo)

Chest rig, f that cowboy chit. The reality is if you get attacked it’s most likely because you surprised it. Think last minute, it gets on top of you and you can’t pull pistol from your belt holster then you’re screwed. A bunch of extra ammo isn’t gunna help. Get the wife a Glock in 10mm and upgrade the recoil spring to a 22# maybe she can get off more than a round or two like that wheel gun. My 2 cents, bear spray and talk loud while hiking. A lot of people carry small music makers, especially those who run the trails. Most of the guides are running 10mm glocks for a reason too.

[Flyin6]

Thanks, S

I don't use chest rigs, never have. In combat, I have always used a drop leg. I carry an OWB paddle holster, r-hip, but with a backpack, the strap will interfere with the draw. Nope, I am a drop leg all the way and that old-school holster has my name written all over it.

10mm Glock is where I was thinking of going for Kat. She even announced just yesterday that she feels she needs a sidearm other than her (many) 9mm self-protection rigs.

Bear spray: Check
Loud talking...I'd be hiking with Kat and Duane's wife in Wy...Talking: Check   ;-))

[halsey]

I have worked and camped in southeast Alaska and seen plenty of bears,  black and brown. I've been in campgrounds that bears frequent. Bear watching guides carried s&w 460 and 500 revolvers. Park rangers carried 12g slug guns or 458 win mag rifles in the field. The 930 sounds good. Now living in northern Alberta.  Don't see as many bears but they are always a possibility. Had two blacks in a camp a couple years ago. I have a mossy 500 along with a slug barrel. Try to practice with it from time to time.

[halsey]

Those big smith's were in chest rigs.

[Flyin6]

Chest rigs, hmmm
That's a lot of gun sticking out there.
My crew chiefs in Afghanistan and Iraq often carried their G19s or M9s in a chest rig, but that was because the Molle allowed for a quick attachment, and their flying vests sometimes had straps hanging off their sides to clip into the aircraft floor.
I considered/am considering a cross draw but, as I said earlier, I have worn and practiced drop leg for literally decades.
And on the 930, I am completely comfortable using that for the camp.
Actually, I am trying to not make this "Bear" thing so much of a thing. The likelihood of a bear encounter probably approaches zero, and I know that. But Kat is just consumed by the prospect. So I am going overboard with this to appease her.
If it were just me, well, I might buy the 629 anyway, just because I love that gun, but I would be good with just continuing to carry the 930 and rely on it, as I have for many years now.

[stlaser]

Well Chief, if you are really itching for a bear encounter they haul the Montana problem grizzlies up to the back side of a lake in the mountains about ten miles from my place as a crow flies. Called spar lake and plenty of beautiful campsites you can share with them. We’ve gone kayaking up there a couple times, doesn’t get any better than that…..

[Flyin6]

Well Chief, if you are really itching for a bear encounter they haul the Montana problem grizzlies up to the back side of a lake in the mountains about ten miles from my place as a crow flies. Called spar lake and plenty of beautiful campsites you can share with them. We’ve gone kayaking up there a couple times, doesn’t get any better than that…..

Itchin' you say?
You kiddin'?
If we have a bear encounter, I can forget dragging Kat out anymore on these off road adventures!

[TexasRedNeck]

Well, I’ve weighed in on what I plan to get for my next bear country adventure (500 S&W)

However, if you go with the 629, I have one and have worked up a nice load for it.  It’s 240gn at 1450 fps.  A bit hot but it will get-r-dun

The G20, I have a 22# wolf spring, a KKM barrel (dont hot load a factory glock barrel, its not supported enough underneath and you can have a bulge or blowout). I have 200gn rounds loaded at 1350 FPS (which is the same ballistics as a .41mag revolver)

I can provide the recipe if you want to give them a whirl.

You know how to tell black bear from grizzly scat?  Black bear scat has berries and seeds in it.  Grizzly scat has bells and smells like pepper spray….


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[Flyin6]

Thanks for the info Tex.

I knew that about bear scat...

No time to do anything custom this year. Only months before we blast off.

Definitely going to be the 629, just too much history, and I already am buying loads for it.

Never had a problem with bear.

But I have had some issues with rattlers.

There was that one that crawled into my Chinook....
And the one Kat was standing about a foot away from in Zion last spring.

[TexasRedNeck]

Well thats one more positive for wheelguns. You can get snake/rat shot rounds for it too.

I have a S&W 357 with a 4 inch barrel that I load snake shot and HPs in when I’m out and about in the woods.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handgun/cci/pest_control_shotshell/6-3744.html


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[Flyin6]

Well thats one more positive for wheelguns. You can get snake/rat shot rounds for it too.

I have a S&W 357 with a 4 inch barrel that I load snake shot and HPs in when I’m out and about in the woods.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handgun/cci/pest_control_shotshell/6-3744.html


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I like that, and confess I have never used snake shot before out of a pistol.

Sadly, I looked at the CCI web page and they do not make it in the .44 magnum.

For a slight turn of the subject at hand, I received my first two boxes of .44 magnum (50) last night. One is the Magtech hollow points I picked up for breaking in the gun. Secondly was a box of bear loads which presented with a semi-copper jacket and a somewhat flattened lead nose. Looks to be made to go deeper into the animal in lieu of blossoming right away.

[Flyin6]

I stand corrected, I found/ordered some:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/26364/cci+44mag+spl+roundshell+4+round+10+20

I also found some 305 gr. hard cast bear loads. Picked up 50 of them as well.

[TexasRedNeck]

Well thats one more positive for wheelguns. You can get snake/rat shot rounds for it too.

I have a S&W 357 with a 4 inch barrel that I load snake shot and HPs in when I’m out and about in the woods.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handgun/cci/pest_control_shotshell/6-3744.html


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I like that, and confess I have never used snake shot before out of a pistol.

Sadly, I looked at the CCI web page and they do not make it in the .44 magnum.

For a slight turn of the subject at hand, I received my first two boxes of .44 magnum (50) last night. One is the Magtech hollow points I picked up for breaking in the gun. Secondly was a box of bear loads which presented with a semi-copper jacket and a somewhat flattened lead nose. Looks to be made to go deeper into the animal in lieu of blossoming right away.

I think you shoot 44spl in the 44.  I have them for mine.


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[Flyin6]

Well thats one more positive for wheelguns. You can get snake/rat shot rounds for it too.

I have a S&W 357 with a 4 inch barrel that I load snake shot and HPs in when I’m out and about in the woods.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handgun/cci/pest_control_shotshell/6-3744.html


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I like that, and confess I have never used snake shot before out of a pistol.

Sadly, I looked at the CCI web page and they do not make it in the .44 magnum.

For a slight turn of the subject at hand, I received my first two boxes of .44 magnum (50) last night. One is the Magtech hollow points I picked up for breaking in the gun. Secondly was a box of bear loads which presented with a semi-copper jacket and a somewhat flattened lead nose. Looks to be made to go deeper into the animal in lieu of blossoming right away.

I think you shoot 44spl in the 44.  I have them for mine.


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Correct, The box clearly states .44 spl/.44 Rem Mag
I'll own two boxes shortly

[JR]

If she likes the 9mm, get high penetration self defense rounds. Although I am a fan of the 45acp/40sw, 9mm has come a long way. Some rounds don't expand and tumble more after penetration. I saw a 165gr 9mm round that separates after 12in in the gell.

That way she shoots what she is comfortable with, KISS.

Think of sabots for the 12g, you need penetration but hard to argue with a 1oz slug too.

[Dustoff35]

When I carry while hiking in the Wind River Range, Wyoming Range and Gros Ventre Range around Pinedale, its ALWAYS bear spray and SOMETIMES a Taurus Tracker .44 mag.  I have yet to see ANY bear while out and I have been backpacking and hunting that area for over 40 years.  We are always cautious and "Bear Aware" and I believe that accounts for not having any run-ins.

[JR]

Last I saw one was in Yosemite when I was real young.  He was raiding garbage cans at 0 dark 30, looked about 10ft tall since I was sleeping outside.

[Flyin6]

Aside from this past summer, I hadn't seen bears very often at all.

But my wife is a bear magnet, I think.

Our first trip last year was into the mountains of NC where we camped a couple nights. The first afternoon there, walking on a trail. we came across a big black bear who seemed oblivious to us. He was just going from place to place glancing at us every once in a while. That whole encounter was around 10 minutes.

The next morning, she got up early and while climbing down the ladder from our roof tent noticed a smaller bear in our campsite, like 10 feet away! He wasn't startled, but I was when she slapped me and started whispering (loud whispers) "Bear, Bear, Bear... ;-)

That fella went around our site then to the next and the next, so I got up and followed him at a distance as he worked his way back onto a common footpath that people use back into the forest.

A couple of days later we were winding down a mountain pass and a small black bear was walking on the side of the road. We drove up to about five feet away from him. He stared at us but did not seem aggressive whatsoever.

So, three bear encounters in one trip.

Fast forward to the New Mexico/Colorado off-road trip a month later and we saw zero bear or bear sign. We did come to within feet of a blackish-colored deer about whitetail size. They seemed a lot "dumber" than the eastern things that spook when an atom's nucleus splits.

So she thinks we have a 50-50 chance of surviving the upcoming Wyoming trip...

Me: Well, I get to buy a .44 magnum for a chance bear encounter where I wouldn't shoot anyway, so it's all good.

[JR]

50-50 surviving or seeing a bear?

[TexasRedNeck]

My suggestion for Kat is a small 22 caliber pistol.  Her chance of survival is 100%

As the bear approaches, she knee caps you with the 22 and she can easily escape…..


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[JR]

 

[Flyin6]

My suggestion for Kat is a small 22 caliber pistol.  Her chance of survival is 100%

As the bear approaches, she knee caps you with the 22 and she can easily escape…..


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I have RA, she doesn't need a pistol to outrun me...Sad...

[JR]

Fight or flight, you'll run fine but let her go.

I don't trust bear spray. Yes I have it but I see so many times it doesn't work, guns always work.

[Flyin6]

Fight or flight, you'll run fine but let her go.

I don't trust bear spray. Yes I have it but I see so many times it doesn't work, guns always work.

Kinda with you on the bear spray.
With something a tad over seven tours of combat duty, I learned that warnings like a shot nearby or a supersonic flyover and stuff like that sometimes worked, but a 5.56, 7.62mm bullet or a 155mm always worked to solve things.