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Author Topic: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)  (Read 14721 times)

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Offline JR

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GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« on: December 10, 2014, 12:30:08 PM »
Ok, so hopefully you've seen my build started here; http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=81.0

Well the stock 8.5 will never cut it for what I have planned much less the small-block blew her up so she is getting a 14 bolt full floater. Picked one up from CL for just $120 that has the 4.10's matching the Dana 60 I have for the front.

For the 14 bolt I want to go with a locker and disc brakes. Has anyone done he disc swap here? I build my own for an 14 bolt sf sometime back and they worked great.

Looks like I have the wide SRW (single rear wheel ) hubs and the width is 67 in. For discs I really want to have slide on rotors vs held on with studs from the rear. Not sure if someone here can help me with that but some of the kits look to work that way, some do not.

I also like this skid plate for the yoke up front as the 14b tends to be on the LARGE side. It just bolts onto the pinion carrier.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 07:41:13 PM by JR »
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2014, 03:29:54 PM »
I know next to nothing about this, but my Dmax has 4 wheel disc and the rear end is very similar "looking" (floater?) and the rotors are slip-on like you are looking for- maybe?
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2014, 09:00:36 PM »
My dmax has the same but I really haven't done to much research on the conversion yet. Lots of them out there though. Sure its just a matter of the right hubs and rotors, thats why I am asking. Plus you loose more than 50 lb in the conversion.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 10:37:36 AM »
Well since Don owns this site I guess I'm free to post up Great Lake Off Road info w/o fear of getting banned. I may have to make a donation though if I sell something  ;). We have the disc conversion, pinion guards, covers and even u-joint girdles for that axle. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks Shawn

www.greatlakeoffroad.com
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:38:15 AM by stlaser »
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 11:49:50 AM »
Shawn, just the man I wanted to show up here. New there was someone here with what I needed.

Not that RuffStuff doesn't have good stuff and Don promotes them, but with lets support this place!

OK, do I need other hubs or is that up to me for width and can I get rotor that slide on?
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Offline stlaser

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 01:25:45 PM »
You will use the hubs that came on that axle unless you need different mount width, then you may be able to use CC hubs and change your mount width some. Honestly I'm not too familiar with that as I haven't done it much. Quick question about this axle though. Do the drums slide off the hubs without removing the axle shafts? Or do you pull shafts then knock out studs so that the hub can be knocked out of the drum?
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 03:29:59 PM »
Well since Don owns this site I guess I'm free to post up Great Lake Off Road info w/o fear of getting banned. I may have to make a donation though if I sell something  ;). We have the disc conversion, pinion guards, covers and even u-joint girdles for that axle. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks Shawn

www.greatlakeoffroad.com


Shawn:

BTW is it Shawn or Sean as I have seen Duane spell it

You're banned

Now that he's banned, let me pipe right in and say GLO Great lakes Off Road has some pretty cool stuff. Check out their diff covers of which I believe we in NKY own about 25% of all that have ever been produced.

Good business, I just wish they were bigger and carried more cool little widgets

On Square D, you can see his diff covers, and U-joint girdles, and recently I used a bearing support for the NP205 overhaul. Duane is buying all his stuff for how PW build. Duane's cousin uses his diff covers on his mega money (Semi-pro??) Blazer buggy project.

But now that Shawn is properly banned we probably won't be hearing anything from him anymore!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 03:33:48 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 08:18:36 PM »
It's Shawn in fact but I'll be polite & respond to either
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline KensAuto

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 08:42:08 PM »
hahaha
Underpaid and misunderstood since 2014

Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2014, 07:59:53 AM »
It's Shawn in fact but I'll be polite & respond to either
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2014, 10:21:54 AM »
It looks like the axle shafts need to be pulled, then the hub and then the studs driven out to get to the drum.  Its a later model housing, with the ribbing on the center section.  I have a 14B axle similar to that one but it has factory disks. 

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2014, 10:40:27 AM »
Yep figured it was a post 85 (bigger pinion bearing) from the ribs, but prior to 90 from the mounts. After 90 (new body style) the mounts are closer the backing plate and ther is another bottom out plate welded inboard of that. (cut that off the 9.5 I have)
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Offline stlaser

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2014, 12:10:58 PM »
With all that stated then you should need the early version disc kit. If drums slid off without removing shafts then it would be later brake setup.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2014, 08:58:44 AM »
Great Lakes Offroad is the go-to source for the parts you need to make this the axle right for your build.  Bullet-proof (literally) differential covers, spring perches, shock mounts and yoke guards.  GLO has it all and it is top quality.  They also have the disk-brake kits you are looking for.  My brother-in-law introduced me to GLO several years back.  The group he runs with out of Wyoming and Colorado wheel very hard; Trail runs, regional mud-drags and Moab.  GLO diff covers are on all of their rides.   

I will be using GLO parts to build and fit a 14 bolt to my Power wagon.     

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2014, 11:55:18 PM »
Now that it looks like I have a new Sub lined up. Well new to me after 23 years of who knows what.

This 14b and Dana 60 will be a solid addition to the running gear. Add some mid frame supports, motor mount for the Cummins and bumpers the frame should be much better off from stock.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 08:06:31 AM »
Hey, JR,
Make sure you post pics of it when you go to buy it.
Then we will have a good documented start status for your build.
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2014, 03:35:06 PM »
Yes I will. Been doing research on the 60 front also and looks like changing the hubs to internal is the way to go. The external selectro hubs are said to be weaker and hard to find parts for.

For the rear, it looks to be just what I need cept for a locker and dics.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2014, 06:21:56 PM »
Yes I will. Been doing research on the 60 front also and looks like changing the hubs to internal is the way to go. The external selectro hubs are said to be weaker and hard to find parts for.

For the rear, it looks to be just what I need cept for a locker and dics.
For hubs, you need to upgrade to the 35 spline short stubs. Tate here on this forum will fix you up. Then use his new Yukon hubs. Don't even waste your $$$ on that weak pot metal Warn things, they're junk
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 01:17:38 PM »
I have been authorized to give forum supporters discounts on all Yukon branded products as well. I have your lockers, spools or mini spools, whatever flavor you're looking for on that 14T. PM or email me direct, or call 1-800-347-1188 ext 5573.

I'm still not technically part of the Vendor program on Realman, wonder if I'll be banned for this... 8)
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 01:51:30 PM »
You're DOT approved and sanctioned ;D
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 03:01:49 PM »
You're DOT approved and sanctioned ;D

Which is pretty much awesome.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2015, 07:45:20 PM »
I have been authorized to give forum supporters discounts on all Yukon branded products as well. I have your lockers, spools or mini spools, whatever flavor you're looking for on that 14T. PM or email me direct, or call 1-800-347-1188 ext 5573.

I'm still not technically part of the Vendor program on Realman, wonder if I'll be banned for this... 8)
Ban ya...Are you crazy?
We need ya. and Randy's is great, and you and the company has been berry berry good to me
So advertise away
I hope to have Randy's as a permanent presence on this site in time
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2015, 06:53:17 PM »
I didn't really think I would get banned; just having a little fun too. I hope to get set up with you soon, don't think I'm not working on it. Let me know when you're ready to get dirty with those locking hubs ;)
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2015, 09:00:53 PM »
I didn't really think I would get banned; just having a little fun too. I hope to get set up with you soon, don't think I'm not working on it. Let me know when you're ready to get dirty with those locking hubs ;)
Wilco friend!

Could do those hubs tomorrow...just thinkin'

Got blitzed today doing a brake job on that used MDX my wife purchased last month, no time for Squareness

But I did get the clamp and heat shielding ordered from Summit!
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2015, 12:11:28 AM »
Sweet, the forum is starting to payoff in real $$.

By the way, looks like the Dodge D60 will stay. It is the same WMS as the 14bt and just 1/2 wider at the spring perch, thats doable!

Now I need some internal hubs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2015, 10:37:44 AM »
you're going to need to source some GM bearing hubs or 1993 and earlier dodge hubs that already have internal locking hubs. The GM are consistently the ones you need, dodge on the other hand can often be the full time hubs with the wrong snap ring locations and don't fit right. 1972-1991 and older GM heavy 3/4 and 1 ton front should be your donor trucks, and 1975-1993 dodge. BOM 610033, -2,3,5,6 The stock wheel hub doesn't have a snap ring provision to retain the hub, I just realized this may be Don's issue as well. check for axle tags and email them to me. I'll ID them for you as they come in.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2015, 10:40:35 AM »
you're going to need to source some GM bearing hubs or 1993 and earlier dodge hubs that already have internal locking hubs. The GM are consistently the ones you need, dodge on the other hand can often be the full time hubs with the wrong snap ring locations and don't fit right. 1972-1991 and older GM heavy 3/4 and 1 ton front should be your donor trucks, and 1975-1993 dodge. BOM 610033, -2,3,5,6 The stock wheel hub doesn't have a snap ring provision to retain the hub, I just realized this may be Don's issue as well. check for axle tags and email them to me. I'll ID them for you as they come in.
Did I just hear ya say you might have figured out the issue with my hubs??
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2015, 11:32:06 AM »
I will look for the gm hubs them. If anyone comes accross a set that would be cool.

I can machine the retainer slot if need be.

Thx
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2015, 01:01:34 PM »
you're going to need to source some GM bearing hubs or 1993 and earlier dodge hubs that already have internal locking hubs. The GM are consistently the ones you need, dodge on the other hand can often be the full time hubs with the wrong snap ring locations and don't fit right. 1972-1991 and older GM heavy 3/4 and 1 ton front should be your donor trucks, and 1975-1993 dodge. BOM 610033, -2,3,5,6 The stock wheel hub doesn't have a snap ring provision to retain the hub, I just realized this may be Don's issue as well. check for axle tags and email them to me. I'll ID them for you as they come in.
Did I just hear ya say you might have figured out the issue with my hubs??

yeah, you may be in the same boat as JR, not that you had external hubs, but that your internal type hubs may be one of the few BOM's that exclude the standard applications. you might just need a set of bearing hubs. I would prefer that you call and talk to Morgan on this or he can call you though when you are near the scene of the crime. He's going to have some pointed questions that need specific answers when you're ready.
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2015, 03:47:19 AM »
Well, did a little digging tonite and found I have a Gov-Bomb carrier. Little rustier than I would like to but the gears look sound.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2015, 09:01:28 AM »
Well, did a little digging tonite and found I have a Gov-Bomb carrier. Little rustier than I would like to but the gears look sound.
Is it one of those weird 3-shaft units?
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2015, 01:40:30 AM »
Yup, didn't even think to look when I got it. Thinking of to many things even gears now. I have 4.10 in both now that will give me around 1800rpm at 70 mph on the H1 tires.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: GM 14 bolt build for the Sub.
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2015, 10:33:11 AM »
check the flywheel & cam gear for tiny cracks at the valleys of the teeth. most common failure.
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2015, 07:54:06 PM »
OK, well with many of these builds here starts (continues) the builds.

Slight change of direction for both the front and rear axles. Well not a lot just the widths.

Front will remain the same but I am going with dually hubs now as I want to keep the H1 wheels stock. They have a 7 in BS and come out 2.5 to the rim edge and almost 4 in to the tires sidewall.

I am now sourcing a later 14bt rear that is 72 wide vs my 67 now. I may still run spacers to keep the tires out to the edge of the wells, but nothing in stone.

So I tore into the 60 today and found why you don't want the external hubs. Different screws holding the knob on, no really watertight and it sticks way out!!

 
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2015, 07:57:03 PM »
Looking at this picture you can see the ridge is split a little from the housing.
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2015, 08:08:06 PM »
Next was getting the studs out. As you can see 1 is normal and came out without issue using a stud removing tool (not a double nut)

The other was the problem as it was broken off below the surface. I had been soaking it in WD40 and now with ATF.

Figured lets try and easy out, they always work, right! First issue was using a HF coated drill bit, nothing. So I dig out a bit I got with my lathe a few years back. Low and behold she cuts like it was made too and I'm sure that is hardened steel. In a few minutes it goes though the bottom and I add a little more ATF to hopefully soak in from the rear.

Getting my 30 year old Craftsman easy out from my tap and die set, I give it a tap or 2 and use the tap wrench to turn it.

LOW AND BEHOLD, IT COMES OUT!!!! Clean and firm with n damage to the threads and no blood from me. So the start is a big thumbs up (in reff to DON) so far.

Had to do a run next for BBQ tonight and a hub socket.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2015, 06:05:04 PM »
Nice work on the frozen stud there JR. Ah the selectro hubs. Fine pieces of garbage eh? you DO have some GM or other model dodge hubs for that housing right?
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2015, 09:24:49 PM »
Yes, I have both a pair of standard hubs and a set of drw hubs on the way.

I like how these hubs have almost all the same size bolts.
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2015, 09:36:44 PM »
I started by getting my air chisel to get the hub nuts off. I tried hitting them but they were not moving much. The air chisel got the outer off, but it was to deep to work on the inside nut. So I broke down and got the 2 9/16 socket for it. It was still a pain to get off, not a good sign.

Finally i get it off and you can see the mix of red and older whatever grease. However when I wiped it clean I didn't like what I saw,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 09:37:26 PM by JR »
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2015, 09:43:03 PM »
Looks like the bearings have both spun in there a little, but the front one pretty bad. It even shows sign of overheating.

Looks like a new pair of spindle will be needed adding s little more $$$ to the cost.

I see these on fleebay for well under $100, but like many things I question the quality. Yukons are $200 each and I still need bearings and seals  :o

I also think this explains why the nuts were so hard to get off.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 09:44:55 PM by JR »
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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2015, 09:36:45 AM »
Yeah by the looks of it, you will be needing to replace that spindle. What shape is the other one in?



Offline Dustoff35

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2015, 01:32:13 PM »
Good progress on the axle.  Looks like you are encountering most of what can go bad…

Have you pulled the cover yet?

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2015, 03:39:29 PM »
Yep, cover has been off and it is very clean. I think I posted that in the main build thread. Need to pull the other side but have to build a new stand first. First was a little narrow and when I pulled the short side hub, it fell rolled over. Its on a hoist now, which is not bad as that is way higher!!

I am just upgrading the yoke to a 1350 and transferring the ring to the Truetrac. Here are some of the parts from Randys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2015, 05:38:01 PM »
That is some serious ugly that you are dealing with.
Nice looking stock of fresh stuff for it tho.
That spindle looks nasty in a lot of ways.
Keep up the good work.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2015, 05:53:10 PM »
Need to make a new stand for it and the 14bt.

Just ordered the last part for crossover (1104 pitman arm)and I pickup the front springs this week.
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2015, 06:26:32 PM »
This works, its inexpensive and you can roll it right under the Suburban when you are done building the axle and are ready to bolt it in.

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2015, 12:16:18 AM »
I made a little taller stand and got another 14bt. This is 68 wms to wms. Got the rotors turned and new pads but found one of the hubs has seepage.
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Offline JR

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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2015, 12:33:14 AM »
Got the other side of the 60 pulled apart and it has a bad spindle too. I ordered new hardened units from Randys with all the new parts for the buildup.

I have decided to use spacers all the way the way around. It gives me the option of running my H1 wheels at the width I like and I can pull a wheel from another vehicle if needed by removing the spacer. Looking where to get some made that are not $500!!! Now that is for steel, alum are easy to find.
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Re: GM 14 bolt and Dana 60 build for the Burb (aka Spartan)
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2015, 02:49:05 AM »
Tore down the rest of the 60 today. Never had one this far but it is stout and easy.

Other spindle had a big nick in it and looked no better then other otherwise. The steering stop bolt was twisted up but those axles and universals looked great for a 25 year old unit.

No real issues getting it apart cept for the lower pass bearing cap. Had to use an air hammer on it. Not sure if it needs replacing as the bearing rides way up.

Both the delrin bushings were in pieces and their cones were pitted and worn. 
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

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