REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Build Threads => Topic started by: OldKooT on February 10, 2015, 05:39:12 PM
-
Sometimes things happen in odd or funny ways as well all know. This project beginning has a story. Since I prefer build threads with pictures and lots of quality reading, that's how this will proceed. So before I "explain" the story, a few pictures are in order.
(http://i.imgur.com/kFHtRO1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pAR132P.jpg)
The first picture dates about 10 years ago my wife says. She keeps track of such things so I will go with that.
The second picture is also about 10 years old and was shot while we explored some old logging roads in Idaho.
As seen in the picture's the basic truck specifications were as follows. 500ci/727, Coan converter/205. Axles were Dana 60 up front 4.56/Detroit Locker. Rear was a 14 Bolt 4.56 Detroit Locker. Springs were custom done Alcan's, and rubber was 38.5 Michelin Xml's.
As equipped it has been to Mexico, all over the USA and Canada. It was always a great performer and a reliable old friend.
We parted it out about 8 years ago I guess, all we have now is a cab/frame/one rear door and a title LoL
Next post... the story.
-
Ok as promised....the story. Last summer my wife and I built her a Cummins powered 1988 Ramcharger. It really turned out nice.
We were preparing to go to Moab Utah with it last September to hang out with some forum friends and do some exploring/wheeling. Well as life has a way, the truck didn't cooperate and we didn't get done in time for the trip.
So we improvised and we bought a 1991.5 W250 Cummins truck out of a field from a farmer. We drove it home after adding a new battery, tossed 4 new stock sized tires on it, fixed the brake lights, and the leaking master cylinder as well as the missing transmissions mounts, and then headed to Moab. Exactly 7 hours after we bought it.
Well again we didn't make it... we got as far as Denver my wife felt very ill, and after a visit to the ER, we drove home and pouted a bit.
Now we had a mostly finished Ramcharger, a new to us fist gen Pickup we really didn't need, and two weeks of vacation left. So we drove the new to us pickup to Wisconsin, visited our grand kids and did some back woods exploring/wheeling/fishing and had a grand time.
We talked a lot on that trip and the subject that kept coming up over and over was how much we missed traveling and exploring remote areas with our old Crew cab. So... that was September of 2014. Here we are February 2015 and we have pulled the trigger..... next post.
-
Getting excited over here buddy. ;D
-
Us farmer/ranchers don't have "mission plans" what we do is just improvise in a not so orderly fashion. This will become clear in a few moments.
The intended disorderly project pipe dream as it were: We are going to build a Dodge crew cab. That's our only real plan.
Engine: A VE equipped 6BT. We are most likely going to swipe the engine from my wife's Ramcharger. It's fresh (maybe 2000 miles) it's specs are as follows. I built it to OEM specifications as far as the short block goes. It is balanced, has ARP rod bolts and was lovingly assembled. The head was extrude honed and ported by hand as well. It's O ringed and runs a Hamilton cam also. KDP is killed obviously as well. It also has a few other goodies like better pushrods, valve springs, and a extrude honed ASE exhaust manifold. A Super B turbo, and an accompanying down pipe. The NOS fresh new VE pump has a 3200rpm governor spring, some tweaking to the tuning, and a home ground fuel pin. Oh and some 5x17 Injector also.
Transmission: A brand New crate fresh NV4500. It also has the the 5th gear updated shaft as well. this will also be stolen from my wife's truck.
Transfer case: A rebuilt fresh 205, and possibly if time and cash flow allows a Magnum Box from Off Road Design In Colorado.
Front Dana 60: 4.10 gears, and I think this time we will possibly try a Grizzly Locker. Factory inner axles, and a 35 spline outer axle upgrade should suffice for now. I am still researching the Locker aspect.
Rear axle: 14 Bolt Chevy, 4.10's and a Detroit. I will also do a disk brake conversion as well.
Suspension: Who knows, still thinking about a few options that are on the possible table.
Tires/wheels: 17" 40" tall something or another.
The USAF Dodge crew cabs had almost no interior comfort, were quite basic, and in many regards we are going to continue that concept as we bring this thing back to life. It may just look a lot like a USAF Crew cab with larger rubber, much like the old pictures of it.
Things we always swore we'd change while we drove across N America with it over a decade ago:
Fuel economy/range: The diesel should solve this problem largely. 40 gallons of fuel should solve the rest.
Comfort: It was always fine, but we often wished it had Air Conditioning, so we will add that this go around.
Utiline bed: I about knocked the rear bed sides/tail lights off this truck a dozen times in remote trail situations. I always said it needed a step side bed, and then none of those incidents would have been a issue. So this time, a short step side it will be.
Pto Winch: This will happen, or a 12K Hydraulic, or maybe both LoL But in keeping with my desire to keep this truck parking garage friendly and under 6500lbs, I'd settle for the one.
For now that's about it, I have contacted a media blaster fella about doing the cab in the next month or so you should see plenty of "action" as this thing WILL be on the road before August.
-
Sounds like fun!!
-
OH YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)
-
Sweet. This sounds like an awesome build!
-
Nice plan and this should be good. Much less a wife who like it and understands!!
-
I was asked to post a picture of the 88RC. I have a few handy when it was close to done...
The parts truck for the Crew Cab.... 1988 Ramcharger CTD/5 speed 42K original miles, original paint truck.
(http://i.imgur.com/X9IjNtm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9ENsPK4.jpg)
-
Norm,
That thing is gorgeous!
You selling it?
-
Don...we should sell it, but my wife wants to go a different direction with it. So it will be a parts donor for the Crew. And she said thanks for the compliment, she built much of that RC herself.
-
Maybe a 4bt in there??
-
Maybe a 4bt in there??
JR... I think her plans are along the lines of nutz LoL Last she talked she intends to swap a 2x4 front/rear suspension it in, drop it on the ground with a rear 9" Ford. Then 18" rubber, some fat sway bars, and a built LS Chevy/4L60 Combo. She has some time to think about it. The crew cab and the M37 are going to get built first.
-
Don...we should sell it, but my wife wants to go a different direction with it. So it will be a parts donor for the Crew. And she said thanks for the compliment, she built much of that RC herself.
Your wife built that??!!
Wow, I'm compressed!
My wife couldn't tell the difference between a 3/8" bolt and a cocklebur!
Good work!
-
Good ideas on all but I would think along the lines of a Dana 60 in the rear. Dime a dozen, stronger and I bet you could find a bolt in with no mods.
Heck Don, my wife has trouble with left and right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
-
Maybe a 4bt in there??
JR... I think her plans are along the lines of nutz LoL Last she talked she intends to swap a 2x4 front/rear suspension it in, drop it on the ground with a rear 9" Ford. Then 18" rubber, some fat sway bars, and a built LS Chevy/4L60 Combo. She has some time to think about it. The crew cab and the M37 are going to get built first.
Can you say, "she wants to do an episode of "Pinks All Out"" 8)
-
Good ideas on all but I would think along the lines of a Dana 60 in the rear. Dime a dozen, stronger and I bet you could find a bolt in with no mods.
I have one available that will probably bolt right in. 4.11 gears and a limited slip...
-
I think her plan for that truck right now is to find it a comfy resting place in the barn and gut it of it's engine and transmission, and then leave it sit for next winters project.
W350 News: I spent most the day today renovating our crude shop a bit to prepare for the actual physical start of this project. I discovered my trusty old wore out IR air compressor is about hatched. I have been meaning to renovate a Vietnam war era Champion compressor I piked up at some auction. Looks like that project is going to be first on the plate...I like my air tools LoL
-
Great looking crew cab! Will definitely be following this one. 8)
-
Great looking crew cab! Will definitely be following this one. 8)
Thanks man... given the level of detail and time you have spent on yours, I fear this one may be a bit rough in comparison when done. But we will see how things work out....glad to have you here.
-
Glad to have both of you here!
-
I discovered my trusty old wore out IR air compressor is about hatched. I have been meaning to renovate a Vietnam war era Champion compressor I piked up at some auction. Looks like that project is going to be first on the plate...I like my air tools LoL
A compresssor-rebuild-story…
I like it!
http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=76.0
-
Shall I include the compressor rebuild fiasco in this thread....or create a special one elsewhere to show my folly? I will share here.... it's a boring Thursday after all LOL
It's got a 4cyl Military Standard engine. A R15 Champion Pump, and a 80 Gallon Tank.
I need to remove the gasoline engine, figure out how big of a electric Motor I need, and sort out all the other particulars to convert it from gas to electric. Here is what Champion says about the pump...
"Champions R15 replacement pump is a two-stage, splash lubricated pump and has an RPM range of 440 - 990, a CFM range of 9.7 - 23.4, and a max PSI of 175. The R15 replacement pump is suitable for a 3, 5, or 7.5 HP motor."
So.... I want max CFM obviously so 990RPM I imagine. Wonder if this is a situation I can round up and just say 1000? LoL
Guess I should measure the pumps flywheel and do some math.
For those interested it's covered in this manual. It's the Horizontal 80 gallon model.
http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-5-4310-277-14.pdf
-
Try to run the RPMs as low as you can tolerate in order to keep the heat generated by the compressor pump down as much as you can.
The hotter it runs, the more heat is transferred to the tank, and the more moisture you will have in the compressed air at the tool. Then again, depending on what part of Nebraska you live in, if you have relatively low humidity in the ambient air, moisture may not be much of a concern...
-
The issue of pump RPM vs moisture vs CFM is one I have been studying on a bit.
The specs I am given lead me to believe the following is the most sensible.
If I run it with a 5hp motor and turn the pump at 750 rpm, I will make 21.9CFM and roughly 12,000btu heat rejection per hour. I never use more than 125psi in my shop anyway.
With the compressors older tank, 125psi seems more sensible.
I think I will plumb everything so when running the sandblaster/painting I can use both 80 gallon tanks. Using the second tank as both for larger air capacity, but also if it's mounted 20' away from the main compressor, it should solve moisture/cooling issues if I am running the compressor hard sand blasting.
160 gallons of air plus 3/4" lines, and 21 cfm should work smartly. My blaster only can use 14.4cfm according to it's specs.
-
Having that extra 80 gallons will help a lot.
-
Well not loads to report, but we had some decent weather so we took a look at the underneath of the Crew cab. Before it went into long term storage if you will I had sand blasted the bottom side and tossed some cheap primer on it. Looks like it survived sitting for many years quite well.
(http://i.imgur.com/gzL0e2T.jpg)
Now to get the frame unburied and in the shop/barn/shed thing.
-
Heck, nothing wrong with that at all. And considering that is your starting point you will really have something when it's all done!
-
Gotta love those western trucks, low humidity and minimal rust.
-
Come on Norm, let's see something
Don't let 6 feet of snow, below zero temps, and 60 MPH wind stop ya!
This thread is not about you, it's for all of us! ;)
-
LoL I have been recently trying to decide if I am going to use these wheels, or sell them.
They are Chevy Duramax Border Patrol Hutchinson bead locks.
(http://i.imgur.com/bz28xb8.jpg)
-
LoL I have been recently trying to decide if I am going to use these wheels, or sell them.
They are Chevy Duramax Border Patrol Hutchinson bead locks.
(http://i.imgur.com/bz28xb8.jpg)
Yea, ya know, they're no good
I'd just get rid of em'
I might be able to take them off your hands...
I mean since they aren't any good, and all...
-
My issue is the lack of decent 38" sized rubber in 16" rim sizes. But that said I am usre if I sold them I could partially fund some 17" wheels that fit my needs.
-
My issue is the lack of decent 38" sized rubber in 16" rim sizes. But that said I am usre if I sold them I could partially fund some 17" wheels that fit my needs.
Not speaking for him, but Duane is going to build a crew that is a lot closer to a stocker than mine, and we all can appreciate a double bead lock and the quality of a Hutchinson wheel.
How'd you score them anyway? No borders near Nebraska!
-
I bought them from a govt surplus auction years ago. I have considered selling them many times, they bring good coin these days.
-
Those are very nice wheels...
-
Lets see today is Tuesday 2/24/15, we have accomplished nothing whatsoever on this project. On the upside, we haven't screwed anything up, or changed our mind. So there is hope we will eventually get this moving.
-
If you are wanting to move those Hutchinson wheels, let me know… :)
-
LoL I have been recently trying to decide if I am going to use these wheels, or sell them.
They are Chevy Duramax Border Patrol Hutchinson bead locks.
(http://i.imgur.com/bz28xb8.jpg)
ya know if you're going to be that nice, taking them off his hands and all, you might even get him to cover the shipping costs? what do ya think Kooter?
Yea, ya know, they're no good
I'd just get rid of em'
I might be able to take them off your hands...
I mean since they aren't any good, and all...
-
LoL at the wheel banter. I will be honest they are worth more than any of you would pay. I have a standing offer of $1400 for the 4 of them. If any of you want them that badly I'd sell them to you before I would the standing offer guy....(if I liked him he'd own them already) but I am sure I will just end up using them. But if I am wrong, and any of you really want them, PM me and lets talk.
Assuming I don't get a PM regarding the wheels I will soon order new O rings for them, break them down, have the wheel mounting surface machined perfectly flat along with the rotors they will be mounted on, and order some tires. This should impress those with OCD LoL
Today I was considering building a reverse rotation high pinion Dana 60 front axle to alleviate the Dodges poor pinion angle issue when lifted. I haven't decided if I like this idea yet...but I am still pondering it.
thus closes day # (not sure) of ding nothing.
-
I like HP D60 for one more reason; in the front they actually run on the drive side of the ring gear, making them about 40% stronger than a standard rotation front which inherently is running on the coast side of the gears.
-
The High pinion idea has many merits. I spent 20 min in our lovely -3F weather this morning studying under my daily driver Dodge... I am unsure at the lift height I want to run, that the HP may not cause as many problems as it solves. I may revisit this a bit further when I have the frame on stands and just go ahead and test fit a Ford front axle and measure.
The strength issue was one of my motives also.... although admittedly every Dana 60 front R&P I have broken, it was always the pinion shaft that failed.
-
Not much to update but there was some small progress. Yesterday my wife and I answered a Craigslist add for "1987 Dodge parts" After a brief phone discussion we drove over and scored two rust free front doors, a blue AC dash (been looking for one of these for ages) and two blue door panels. We also nabbed a mint blue vinyl front bench seat.
So some small progress while we wait for mother nature to spring some warmer weather on us.
-
Today 3/08/15 we went shopping at a local swap meet for charity that's held here every year. My eldest son and I wandered around for a few minutes after arrival and I about fell over. Sitting in front of me on a old trailer were 4 Hutchison Bead locks and MTR's. So...long story short we brought these home.
(http://i.imgur.com/2W6GQQO.jpg)
Now I have two sets of wheels I am not sure about LoL
On a different note we called it quits about noon at the swap meet and came home. My wife and I did some cleaning and if this warm (50 degree) weather holds, I think tomorrow we should be able to extract the Crew Cabs frame from the ice it's presently stuck in.
We are eagerly looking forward to being able to say we just finished day #1 of working on this thing...the official start is near.
-
We're all waiting
And those wheels are outstanding!
-
The tires look OK to, not a bad deal at all. I saw a set on ebay for over 4k!!!!!!!
-
The High pinion idea has many merits. I spent 20 min in our lovely -3F weather this morning studying under my daily driver Dodge... I am unsure at the lift height I want to run, that the HP may not cause as many problems as it solves. I may revisit this a bit further when I have the frame on stands and just go ahead and test fit a Ford front axle and measure.
The strength issue was one of my motives also.... although admittedly every Dana 60 front R&P I have broken, it was always the pinion shaft that failed.
Side note on the pinion shafts failing; typical culprits are a lack of carrier bearing preload, especially with setups done at home. Essentially, one can not "over-preload" carrier bearings, but it is very easy to under preload them. if you don't have a housing spreader it's darn near impossible to get a properly preloaded carrier installed into a dana housing because the additional shims added to the carrier to establish preload increase the width. most guys at home leave a few thou out of the equation to allow for easier install, which is fine for daily avg use, but when you apply torque to big tires, the housings can flex and allow the pinion teeth to walk out on the ring gear teeth to the weaker edge of the tooth, allowing them to chip, crack, break off entirely. once one goes the others like lemmings follow it's lead.
moral; make it so tight you swear you can't get it installed, then force it in. as long as your pattern is good, a few miles of driving with oil in the bearings will loosen it up a tad and even one you couldn't previously turn by hand will operate flawlessly.
-
I actually do own a housing spreader. Just used it yesterday to help extract and extremely stubborn carrier out of Dana 61 front I am building.
FWIW I have never broken a Dana 60 R & P but I have broken multiple pinion shafts. A couple Detroits, and one housing. Farming is hard on stuff
-
I always saved one of the thick shims for last. Was a B**&^ to get in but worked.
Thats what is nice about the GM corps, they have a nut for preload.
-
Hi Norm
Jim
-
Hey Jim.... you ready to watch some truck building? It's getting about time to dive into this mess.
Hopefully this weekend some progress will be made. The mission statement in my head says official project day #1 should be Sat or Sun of this weekend.
-
Hey Norm, can I borrow your thread for a second?
Jim,
FYI those 87 Chevy 1 ton rear springs seem to be sagging a bit. Norm here was the guy who spotted it. I work around that truck so much I hadn't noticed it.
Thing is I pulled one of the arched springs out to keep from going too high and also of course the thick bottom overload spring. But now those springs are close to being flat...maybe 1"'2" positive arch. So I think I might have to tear into them and add that leaf I removed.
What do you think...Maybe Pm unless Norm doesn't mind me hijacking his thread. Well, we can do this over on SquareD's thread...
-
Helping Hijack, Don where did you end up getting your springs? I have really learned my lesson on leaf springs. Basically I learned that “Store Bought” springs suck and custom springs are good but the person making them has to understand what the spring is doing.
-
Helping Hijack, Don where did you end up getting your springs? I have really learned my lesson on leaf springs. Basically I learned that “Store Bought” springs suck and custom springs are good but the person making them has to understand what the spring is doing.
Sorry, Norm!
They came from SD Truck Springs I think...Been awhile, and I purchased a second set of 64 inchers for the rear axle which have yet to be installed.
In all fairness the truck probably weighs in near 6,000. The complete chebby rear spring was rated at 1775 each, or 3550 total. So, I should have left things alone and used all the leaves except for the overload. Having pulled one of the 6 springs probably reduced the capacity to less that what they are now having to support.
Not sure of the weight bias, but probably something near 55/45 front rear and maybe as high as 60/40 F/R. That would mean the springs need to support from 3300 to 3600 and that's without that big winch, the bumpers to come and let's not forget Franken Snorkel! ;-)))
So I might overtasked the springs and especially whit the removal of one of the leaves.
Caveat: I always planned to add front bags to fine tune the height and ride once I got the configuration settled in and settled on!
-
Feel free on the sprig stuff Don/Jim/Phil.....as it pertains largely to our project here as well.
I am about to pull the trigger on the front springs for this project..... I have it narrowed down to either swiping the "old style" much loved Alcan's from my wife's RC, then using Jim's mount and shackles, relocate them forward as much as possible. This possibility is attractive because they hold the weight of the Cummins just fine, ride like glass and move well. Issue is the shackle angle I fear will be wrong moving them forward.
The other option is a combination much like yours Don. Keeping this truck "low" but still running a 38" tire is the goal.
-
Low is relative I guess. My truck looks a lot like (Speaking in terms of height) as it did when it was lifted 6", maybe a tad higher. For my old trucks (two earlier W150's and one Ram Charger) up to a 6" lift seemed to be fine. These trucks at stock height represent a 6" lift over modern day stockers.
I think I'll be tearing into that spring pack and adding back that leaf...to get the flatness out of that spring pack. Not that I mind it being flat, but with what the truck is going to look like, they might go negative arched...
Norm, my factory manual puts my stocker W250 in the 5800-5900 curb weight range. You concur?
-
Yes Don I'd say that weight range is close. LE Trucks push 6K and strippers will be about 5600...at least the ones I have owned. "Tall frame" trucks are heavier than "short frame" trucks. Yours is a W250 so it should be short framed.
The kids Suburban is out of my barn/shop so now we have room to work.... can't wait.
Spent part of today chasing down a TV cable for "patch" that 518 shifts like new again. Cable just up and broke....odd.
$128 latter.... good as new
-
Hi guys
Don I would add that lief back in & you might half to add another. I had the 1875lb per side packs under the front of my RC & it road like a car ;D. But it was to soft & when I got on the breaks hard the nose would dive about 4" & I didn't like that. I should have just added another additional 2nd lief but I bought a 2" lift spring & installed. The lift spring is stiffer & the nose doesn't dive so much when I get on the breaks so that's better. I will probably get another 2nd lief made & add it into the pack & try it to see what it does. If the ride quality was in between the stock replacement & the lift spring that would be sweet.
The reason I'm trying this is it to give good recommendations to people that can't afford the Alcans or ones like them. I agree that the Alcans or Deaver would be the way to go!!
Does that help at all guys?
Jim
-
Hi guys
Don I would add that lief back in & you might half to add another. I had the 1875lb per side packs under the front of my RC & it road like a car ;D. But it was to soft & when I got on the breaks hard the nose would dive about 4" & I didn't like that. I should have just added another additional 2nd lief but I bought a 2" lift spring & installed. The lift spring is stiffer & the nose doesn't dive so much when I get on the breaks so that's better. I will probably get another 2nd lief made & add it into the pack & try it to see what it does. If the ride quality was in between the stock replacement & the lift spring that would be sweet.
The reason I'm trying this is it to give good recommendations to people that can't afford the Alcans or ones like them. I agree that the Alcans or Deaver would be the way to go!!
Does that help at all guys?
Jim
Holy smokes!
That is going to be one big stack of springs up there!
OK, I'll put the missing leaf back in and go from there
No the nose dive sounds like the shock valving was pretty light in the compression side. Do you have enough shock on that truck?
What I have found over the years is bigger is better. I have the most success with King 2.5" body shocks and slightly looser valving.
-
What I have seen is the "off the self" springs are ok for the most part but they are massed produced and most of the springs are made in India or China, not all but most so please ask where they are made when you are going to buy them.
Ok I am NOT flaming or promoting any vendor with the story below, I am just explaining the lessons/experience I learned
I have went thru 2 sets of rear springs and I am going to change the front springs also, just because I am very happy with how the rears are working. I had bought new springs for the rear and the front from Alcan, and I learned a lot over the process. I never had a problem with the Alcan springs I used BUT getting any information from Alcan is like pulling teeth for the most part. When I ordered springs my goal was to get rid of the lift blocks, I hate lift blocks so with that goal in mind I went about of trying to figure out what kind of lift spring I needed. After some back and fourth with Alcan I ordered what I thought would work and give me 4" total lift. I learned you need to very clear when ordering springs!!!! This is the first time I ever ordered custom a leaf springs so I really didn't know what to ask for.
Anyway back to my first set of springs, so I installed the first set and a big problem I discovered was if you go over a certain lift/arch your spring will interfere with the rear stock spring hanger, for my application the interference wasn't there at first but over time the spring sagged/settled and the interference became a problem, more on this later.
The first set of front springs I got had way to much lift, so I had to ship those back to Alcan and they replaced top leaf and then I was good to go the RC sat level and I was happy with every thing. It was a harsh ride but it worked for what I was using it for.
After a year of driving the RC I noticed the rear springs started to sag the spring was eating into the rear hanger and the spring bolt was hitting the hanger and limiting flex so much it was trying to rip the rear hanger off the frame, so I was getting ready to go to Alaska and I wanted to repair the problem before I went, I installed a set of Jims shackle flip rear spring hangers and then I called Alcan to order a new set of springs. I wanted to soften the ride so I asked if they could give me a better fit/rate and I was told that I should just run a 1/2 ton pickup spring, I said ok but please make sure the dimensions are the same as my current spring. I was skeptical but I agreed and the new plan, well when the springs came in I knew right away they were not going to work. After I installed I found that the spring pin was 1" father forward than the last spring they built for me and the springs were way too soft. so I installed a set of zero rates to fix the axle position problem and I still had to install a 2.5" lift block to get the RC to kind of sit level, basically the springs were flat with weight on them and only I loaded everything up the springs were negative. At this point I was out of time and just had to make the trip with what I had, we made the trip without problems.
Once I returned from Alaska I took the RC to Deaver spring, he took measurements and in about 3 weeks later the springs were built, total difference now that the RC has proper springs, its about 1" higher than I want but Deaver said if I wasn't happy to bring the RC back and they would make it set where I wanted it. I am so happy with what they did with the rear I am going to have them make a set for the front.
As you can see I went thru a lot to finally get what I wanted but I learned a lot about leaf springs, there is a total different approach in how Deaver builds a spring than in how Alcan builds a spring, they with both work but they are engineered differently.
This ended up being a expensive lesson but I am glad I know what I know now.
-
Phil... you experience with Alcan on the rear springs doesn't surprise me a lot. I won't get into a long book of details here, but back 10 years ago when I had them build the set I own, they were a quality product. In a recent attempt to purchase a identical set, it was clear I would not be buying again from them. I was also told that if I was to require warranty work on my original 10 year old set, I was out of luck. They claim they didn't get the purchase records from the original company when they took over......So yeah.
-
Well I will never buy anything from them again, maybe if I was local things might not of been as bad but it was still an expensive lesson. I didn't know Alcan was bought out, did this happen recently?
-
Alcan, changed...sad.
I had them build me a set of custom springs back in 2003. Perfect set which did exactly what I wanted. Right height with a shackle flip and no block, was happy.
I considered them for the SquareD build and even talked with them on the tele-communicator. In the end price drove me to try these stockers from SD Truck springs.
Another company which no one has mentioned is Atlas. Based on what I know I have to give Deaver the nod. What they do is use a tall stack of thinner and tapered spring leaves. Atlas builds like Alcan, but they don't/wouldn't actually build. I tried to get them to build me springs a couple times but I couldn't get them to call me back, coordinate or give me the warm and fuzzy that they were comprehend on what I was doing. Mexican guy there, but very competent.
-
When I started the RC project and started asking about springs nobody had anything bad to say about them, but lesson learned. I have been to both Deaver and Atlas's shops(both in Southern California) and both are very knowledgable and great people to work with I have bought stuff from both.
-
Well it's Monday.... that's all.
-
What would you guys consider a fair price for custom springs? I am looking for the Burb swap and have a local shop "Valley Spring Works" in Dixon.
He quoted me about $300 per side for the front and $100 each to re-arch the rears.
-
Well that not a terrible price, thats about what the other spring makers charge. If you factor in shipping from any place that is not local to you the price will go up $100 for shipping. $100 for a rearch is reasonable
-
^^^ I concur. $600 for a set of custom springs is the going price
-
Day one has arrived finally. March 16 2015 we officially have begun the build....so here we go.
First order of business is getting the frame cleaned up. Now I could have done it the hard way and sand blasted it myself. But my compressor is hating life, the new project compressor is not yet done so....well, time to call a professional.
We have this fella local to us (25 miles away) that has a side hobby/business of sand blasting. He does large contract jobs like grain elevators, and bridges when he's feeling ambitious. So I called him and explained what I desired and he suggested I bring him the frame this afternoon. So I umped on my skid loader, tossed the frame on the trailer and headed out.
Before the work started...
(http://i.imgur.com/BTWe9tD.jpg)
The sand blaster... that's 300hp of compressor with a old propane tank converted to a pressure pot. Not well shown in the pictures is a semi bulk trailer full of sand. It has a 1.5" delivery hose and runs at 125psi.
(http://i.imgur.com/1QnMIYh.jpg)
In progress...notice no gloves, just his mask/air and a nice 80 degree March day. Make note of the distance he holds the nozzle from the frame...
(http://i.imgur.com/OyicaaY.jpg)
So 45 minutes latter and $200 poorer, but the frame is spotless bare metal. Upon arriving home, myself and my wife and two daughters carried it off the trailer and put in the barn/shop. Now to scare up some epoxy primer hastily and get it sealed up. That is tomorrow's chore.
-
Wow that is impressive! Congrats on day 1 in the books!
-
Impressive indeed!
Finally...We have this thing going!
That's a long/tall frame!
-
Wow, that is some serious sand blaster!
-
$200 was a deal. I did my old 77 with a small blaster and it took days, was hot and got very dirty!
Love that trailer too and a wife and kids that don't mind getting hands on. When I ask you'd think the world is ending, 5 minutes complaining for 30 seconds of work.
-
Day 2: I had some actual work to do today so I didn't get out to the barn/shop until almost 3pm.
I spent a hour or so removing the spring shackle mount rivets. Nothing a torch, the grinder, a large hammer, and the air chisel didn't solve. Then Kay and I spent about a hour blowing sand out of stuff. Then while I went to find a missing Dana 60 4.10 front axle (it was in the back of a dually box for some reason) Kay took the dual action sander and worked the frame over with 80 grit for a few hours.
We did shoot about 1/3 the frame with primer tonight. The temps dropped quite a bit, so a bit sketchy shooting paint with the wood furnace running. But we didn't blow up.
The frame after Kay worked her magic...
(http://i.imgur.com/dRcgOVA.jpg)
The shackle mounting area ready for Jim's new shackle mounts I need to order asap.
(http://i.imgur.com/wqc7WWZ.jpg)
Tomorrow hopefully we will get a bit more done. For now I am going to go enjoy the grilled cheesburgers Kay whipped up and a shower.
-
Glad to know you two didn't get all blowed up!
Been there...did that...
Great job on the frame there, Navy, and Miss K
-
Nice progress!!
-
Well......... it's Saturday March 21 2015 and we haven't gotten much else done. We did clean up and build a small workbench in our shop/barn so as this project continues we have a place to work. That consumed Wed/Thursday
Yesterday the old air compressor decided to have some issues. It was becoming quite clear this project wasn't going to continue until we found a reliable air source. (frame is half primed and here we sit)
We have a beautiful old Champion compressor (circa 1969) we are restoring and intended to use. Problem is it's tore apart and awaiting some reassembly LoL So..... enter the "punt" stage.
My lovely wife found a lightly used 5 year old compressor with a Saylor Beall cast iron pump, 80 Gallon tank, and all the trimmings on Craigs List. I called the fella and he wanted $1400 for it. Since new it was about $3K and it was lightly used he claimed, I figured we best go take a look at it.
We left the house for the 60 mile drive at 4pm, and we HAD to be home by 7pm for the twins production of Pinocchio (8th grade play) "Patch" our ugly but trusty spare 91.5 CTD truck got us there in less than a hour and we took a look at the compressor.
To reduce this to less than book length we found it to be in nice shape, but a bit older than he claimed. The oil was used but clean, tank was dry and no sign of rust...it had a auto drain on it from day one so that was encouraging. He insisted he bought it new 5 years ago, the welder certification on the tank says 2002. So...........what we had was a solid compressor pump, a industrial 7hp motor/starter and what looked to be a lightly used machine, that was just a bit older than the fella claimed. I told him I needed to think a minute and went and sat in the truck while my wife talked to him and his son.
I was about halfway through my thinking process when my wife throws the tailgate down and up drives a forklift with this compressor. I get out looking at my wife and she gives me the shut up and help us load it look.
Turns out I can't take her anywhere clearly. So we tied it down, and raced for home. We get a mile away she smiles and says to me. While you were busy thinking, I let the guy watch me checking out the compressor, then stood up with $900 in my hand and told him if he loaded it fast so we could make the play, we would take it.
I guess I will spend today unloading, finding a place to put it, and seeing bout getting it working. Then back to work on the Crew Cab with a slightly smaller budget.
-
Yes dear, thank you dear. Lol
-
Great progress and a good deal on sandblasting the frame! There is nothing better than starting out with a clean frame.
Post up the compressors, we love them too. Even the pile of Champion parts. There is a guy over on the garage journal that did a nice Saylor Beall restoration, complete to original paint color and decals.
-
I will post some pictures of my compressor projects when I get a chance. First I need to figure out how to get it off the truck without driving 45 miles with my trailer to go get the forklift. Then I need to find someplace to install it. Most everywhere I'd prefer it to be it may either be too tall to fit, or too heavy to get in place simply. Then wiring it up, and plumbing it....I will probably spend a week doing this lmao
Being a farmer, I have a strong temptation to toss it in the shop, plug it into the welder outlet and get back to work on the truck...I am trying to resit that urge.
-
Good buy there Kootie
Well, actually the compliment goes to your thrifty wife!
But good for the both of you!
-
Nice deal. They are rare out here everyone wants new prices for 20 year old stuff.
-
It may be a good deal, we shall see. Until it's hooked up and running quietly, making air as it should, I remain in limbo. As I type the girls are cleaning out a hole for it to sit in. My sons and I managed to extract it from the pickup with my old beater skid loader safely without damage. Now the hard part.....the manual moving of this thing 15' around a corner and up a few small steps.
-
I am looking for a new one. Just can't see 2k for a compressor.
In the meantime I just got a HF pump for my old Craftman. Cast to replace 20 year old noisy alum and just $150.
-
Well it's not Crew Cab stuff, but.... a few pics. Here we have the compressor ready to head inside the barn.
(http://i.imgur.com/xd85mDo.jpg)
Here it is in it's new home. We tucked it semi under the stairs to the loft. It's close to a opening window for cool air. This part of the barn is cement block and well shaded, so it's always far cooler than the rest of the building.
(http://i.imgur.com/BdMaJAt.jpg)
Here is another shot. This is roughly 40' from the shop area. That should give me a nice long run of pipe to cool things. It also will keep the shop nice and quiet. This also allows me less than a 10' run from the breaker box. If you notice in the picture near the floor there is a drain through the outside wall already. It seems to be a taylor made location for a compressor.
(http://i.imgur.com/eD8x1cg.jpg)
We got this much done and drug out the boat for a wax and polish. We then ran the Exmark over the front lawn and collected all the leaves and assorted winter debris with the hopper. Tomorrow after church I will begin wiring and possibly some plumbing.
-
That thing looks to be in great shape
Excellent score for $900
You'll be slinging primer in no time!
-
that is a nice looking piece of equipment there norm.
-
First thing I thought is how nice it looks, great score!!
-
Thanks everyone....wish I could say it's up and running and making air. I spent the first half the day today wiring in the 30 amp service. That went rather smoothly minus the part where I forgot that I had to fasten the shut off switch and such to concrete.....
So my wife got home about 3pm and we decided to go to the big city and get some concrete anchors and price some copper pipe. We hit Menard's first and had a small case of sticker shock. Type L copper in 3/4" was $29 for a 10' stick. Kay talked me into that expense, but then when we went shopping for fittings I vetoed the entire idea of copper. At close to $7 per fitting average I said screw it and put it all back. We then hit the black pipe selection and loaded up on fittings, 10 pieces of 1" pipe and a thread cutter and dies for less than half the price of copper. Bonus I have a new tool and can make future inexpensive additions to the air system whenever I like......
I promise eventually truck work will happen LoL
-
Nice score, lucky you (or should I say your wife) didn't go to jail for stealing it !!
-
I'm moving this whole thread to the compressor section! ;-))
-
Heck, we all get as jazzed up over tools as the builds!
Darn DOTs.
-
Ahhh, OK, you're forgiven! ;)
-
Tech tip: If you want to get anything done on your truck project do NOT, I repeat do NOT embark on a air compressor plumbing system in 1" black pipe that spans 150', makes many corners and requires much pipe cutting/threading. How's that for a run on sentence?
Today April 1st 2015 I may finish the air supply installation for the most part, and be back on the project. After I drive 60 miles one way to buy a few fittings I can't buy local.
-
OK, Norm time to update your progress.
Any work on "Project-Beast" or still hanging air line and farmin'?
-
Well..... honestly Don, we are making "some" progress. Yesterday Kay and I cleaned some more of the shop/barn... and found an entire Cummins engine/tranny I forgot I owned LoL Not sure it has any relevance to the project, but it was like finding a lost cache of treasure.
To date we have assembled the following parts pile for the truck:
Mid 90's vintage 3/4T 14 Bolt with a open carrier, 3.73 gears and stud retained brake drums.
Dana 60 Snow commander front axle with 3.54 gears. Also a Chevy CUCV Dana 60 front axle we will rob of it's hubs.
Some rear 3/4T 52" Dodge springs with a 3200lb rating....
Kay scored a new in the box 12K lb Milemarker Hyd winch.....
And I have a local lead on a possible passenger side crew cab door we need for this project.
It's been snowing,raining, windy, cold and muddy....so we have gotten very little done outside, which has slowed things considerably.
The shop air is plumbed as far as required for the time being... the new compressor is working out well, and we have a measured 22cfm at 150 psi at the shops air drop. And most importantly, no noticeable moisture. So far, I am very pleased with the new compressor and plumbing.
As soon as I get done pouting about the tax situation I will start ordering some parts and see if we can't get this thing going together..... for the more immediate future I have to remove all the old mounts and such from the 14 bolt, and clean up the front Dana 60....so that is this weekends plan.
June it is.... plenty of time, no hurry.
-
Norm,
Did you get the Quote over on RCC? I have everything in stock right now but running low on the HD frame bushings. I have 2 kits in stock as of today & I'm shipping 1 on monday.
Your frame looks great!!!!!
& that compressor is AWESOME!!!
Jim
-
Well we got out to the shop and got a few things done. I tossed the 14Bolt rear on some old sawhorses outside and Kay got to work on removing the spring mounts and assorted brackets. It started out looking like this.....
(http://i.imgur.com/NYASEny.jpg)
She uses the gas axe to remove everything and then finished up with the big grinder and then the flapper wheel on the 4" grinder and finally 80 grit on the DA.
(http://i.imgur.com/WbKrfd6.jpg)
Kay then managed to get a hot spark down her shirt while using the flapper.....I was there to record the event....thankfully no audio.
(http://i.imgur.com/YNqa0Xw.jpg)
When I suggested if she didn't grid on stuff without long sleeves she'd not have that issue I got this look...
(http://i.imgur.com/WEOUfPp.jpg)
The final product.... she does good work.
(http://i.imgur.com/j7JZc3A.jpg)
So she got both sides done in about a hour or so while I dug through our barn and other buildings looking for a 3.73 Dana 60 R&P....and I guess I don't own one.
So we knocked off early and we are going to go see a guy I know has a few Dozen Ford Dana 60 rear axles...one of them must have a 3.73 R&P.
-
I sure did Jim, been trying to decide what I am doing about that front mount. I have a unique issue with the PTO/HYD winch issue that's going to take some creative reworking of that front cross-member.
The other issue is I am considering just moving the shackle mounts in the frame a bit and running 52" rear Dodge 3/4T springs. They have a better weight rating than the Chevy stuff and I own a few sets I can tailor to my liking. So problem is..... I am not sure yet what I need to order. I really need to get it mocked up with some axles under it..... which is what we are trying to accomplish the beginning stages of this weekend.
-
The big difference between the Dodge spring & the chevy spring is the location of the center bolt. The chevy 52" is the center bolt is centered on the spring front to back & the Dodge spring center bolt is off set. Thats why I am using the chevy spring.
Jim
-
Hey Norm, can't you use a heavy duty p/s pump to power that winch? Or maybe an additional belt ran pump of some sorts? I mean, you are a farmer, and I know farmers have hydro pumps just laying around!
-
Humm, offset center bolt? The dodge front is narrower than the chevy at the mounts. How far is the center bolt from the front mount?
-
regarding the winch....If we run the Hyd Milemarker I would most likely power it with a transfer case pto driven pump. But my intention is to use a 12K lb Ramsey wide drum pto winch I own. It's wide drum will hold 175' of 3/8 rope. It's 45lbs lighter than the Milemarker, and it's no question much more durable and with 5 forward speeds also far more versatile.
Jim.... I think in most applications the use of Chevy springs is the best approach. Your RC demonstrates that you can get great travel and decent road manners with that combination. My problem is they will provide to much lift for my intended project. I really just need to mock a few combinations up and see what I can be happy about. It may come down to me going to chevy length springs and just having Deaver build me a pair. But I wold sure like to avoid that.
-
Good conversation taking place here!
Is she grinding a 14 bolt wearing a dress?
I've seen everything!
And to remind ya, Norm, I am using the 87 chevy 1 ton 52" spring in mine when I gave you the 9" measurement
June...??? OK, I'm waitin! (and I hope you can get it done!)
-
Don.... she's wearing a pair of those shorts she use when she ride her bike. She often wears daisy dukes, but she fears I may post a picture of them.... so well she is all modest.
So Sunday was a busy day, but I did get out to the shop after supper for a while. I decided I should disassemble the front Dana 60 and get it ready to be cleaned up. This axle came from a Ohio rust belt parts truck. I would soon regret that reality.
(http://i.imgur.com/vGgDveS.jpg)
I couldn't get one bolt out of the king pin cap...when my 1/2" impact can't loosen something it brings cause for concern. So being concerned I heated the thing and tried again... still nothing. I then got the 3/4 impact as I was loosing any ability to care at this point. Sure enough "snap" proving yet again...I should be more patient.
Then the bottom spring plate wouldn't come off. No amount of hammering, air hammering...nothing even moved it. So.....
(http://i.imgur.com/6f4oap8.jpg)
I fixed it!!
-
On the subject of Dana 60 front axles:
Since this truck is some kind of cross between a Exhibition rig and a resto-mod, the keep it simple approach is the project's theme.
To that end I have decided to avoid any modifications that can complicate repair in remote parts of the continent. My wife calls it "the tractor approach" So front axle modification will be minimal.
I think a complete rebuild of the king pins will happen. OEM Dana Spicer parts are rather durable and can be sourced most anywhere. I would like to upgrade the passenger side steering knuckle with a aftermarket version. (the high steer stresses this knuckle) But due to Dodge having a higher tie rod location than Chevy, and the fact all aftermarket knuckle are built with the Chevy tie rod location, no upgrades are available. I would rather have the ground clearance afforded by Dodges higher tie rod mounting in the big picture. I will make sure and order a ARP stud kit for the high steer arm.
So other than some 35 spline outer axles and a locker, it will be rather stock. I might work in a stouter diff cover, and some outer axle tube seals to help with water crossings.
I think I will upgrade the U bolt size as well. And I will swap the yoke from the strap style to a U-bolt style 1350 or 1410 size.
So basically a rebuild and paint and install....
-
Well we got to work on the truck about 3pm or so. I had started earlier this afternoon but promptly discovered that I bought the wrong media for the sandblaster. Instead of the fine grit, I acquired the medium grit Black Magic. My uber cheap HF blaster wasn't going to blast anything with that stuff. Facing a 60 mile drive one way to get the correct media, I did something I have sworn I was going to do for about 2 years or more.
I drove to town and bought the required part and pieces and replaced the original mixing valve/manifold with new and farmer improved 1/2 sized plumbing. (major upgrade) Then I took the HF deadman valve apart. I used a ball valve before the handle, and then opened up the tip retainer so it now will fit the standard buy anywhere blaster tips. This allowed me to use a 1/4 sized tip and run the larger media. My wife then commenced blasting the front axle.
(http://i.imgur.com/5KU1Ina.jpg)
The new compressor is a beast. She was able to blast with the 1/4 tip continuously and it ran it's rear off but it kept up. After about 15 minutes of blasting.....1.5 bags of media. So $8.00
(http://i.imgur.com/PSqGP1i.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oZgZVhD.jpg)
Next.....
-
While Kay was busy blasting the front axle I grabbed my new $250 (I hate spending money) air hammer and started slicing off frame rivets.
After about 10 seconds of hammering.....
(http://i.imgur.com/z30HyFl.jpg)
I probably have 20 rivets to remove easily for this project. what a time saver. I will need to own and use that thing for about 20 years now to not feel like I spent too much.
About this time she finished blasting and requested help removing the king pins. I told her to get the 7/8 hex socket and the 3/4 drive impact. (usually this works slick) Not on this Ohio rusted gem. After much heating, a broken Hex socket, and one bent breaker bar (the Snap On man is going to love me) I was ranting rather loudly. After threatening to just use a different axle housing my wife reminded me that just because I have extra Dana 60's isn't a good excuse to waste them.
So I appealed to my farmer idea bank and grabbed a pipe wrench...thought a bit more and grabbed a 6' section of DOM tube and the torch. After getting it very warm....we got one loose and partial victory was ours. The next one broke the pipe wrench handle. Pipe wrench #2 survived and we got the second one out as well.
next more fun stuff....
-
Hey Norm
Point of order here
Who exactly is doing this build anyway??
You or Mrs?
Seems every time you post something it's your wife doing all the work!
Just sayin... ;-))
-
Now my wife likes shiny metal, it does "something" for her I guess. So as soon as the king pin battle was over she commenced massaging said front axle. She started with this...
(http://i.imgur.com/hjDT2ir.jpg)
and finished with this....
(http://i.imgur.com/2wGcdwW.jpg)
Since I was out of patience with the fertilizer spreader I was repairing while she tossed sparks in my hair we called it a day. Days end results......
(http://i.imgur.com/mdcsDIv.jpg)
She said she will finish the housing tomorrow and I should relax and fix the fertilizer spreader or quit being cheap and go buy a new one..... NEVER.
-
Well Don it's complicated. Kay likes to get dirty, she likes detail work and organizing stuff. I like to sit in a chair and watch her work. (kidding sorta)
I badly need to get some lime on my lawn and spray weeds around the buildings and the driveway. So while she does what she enjoys doing, I got the crappy job of fixing my old Lesco spreader. After 20 years it finally demanded a overhaul.
And I did remove the king pins, which I should get some kind of award for. I was one step from grabbing the porta band and turning that axle into garage art.
-
. I was one step from grabbing the porta band and turning that axle into garage art.
I always preferred explosives for things like that (that don't work!)
(My old very overused pic of the computer I had in the early days in Kandahar...
It died!
And... Really over the top work on that axle! I didn't come close to that level of "prep" on mine. If your entire truck gets that treatment, it is going to be a sight to behold!
-
That is looking good. I like to take the nasty ridges off things but not usually that far! Almost a shame to paint it.
Now seeing her in Daisy Dukes blasting that would be a great pic!!
I would say the air hammer is doing its job well. Must be a monster for $250.
Did you get my email on the fan??
-
Tuesday update: As promised Kay arrived home from work and finished the front axle housing prep. I was out farming, so when I got home at 5pm she had moved on to using the DA on the frame. It's ready to finish priming the drivers side inside and out as of 8pm. The weather isn't supposed to be conclusive to painting but.... I will spray and pray I guess. Then we will have the frame in primer except for the ends which we still need to work on.
While she ran the DA, I grabbed the air chisel and removed all 4 rear spring hangers in about 20 minutes.
I then started some measurements on the rear frame section in preparation for researching which rear fuel tank if any, I may wedge in there.
The obvious simple answer is to just use a Ramcharger tank.... but I don't like how low they hang. Plus I really would like to have a steel tank. So the search is on....but I did notice my M37's tank is a possibility. I have a few of those tanks in stock, but they are worth a fortune so I hate to use one....but I might anyway, more on this latter.
(http://i.imgur.com/XrUXbOZ.jpg)
-
Well the M37 tank is a bust. It would fit if I trimmed off 1/2 of an inch of the upper frame rail lip.... not happening. So the search is still on regarding the fuel tank.
I could build a box mounted, flat against the front bed wall tank from scratch. But that's going to be a bit of a process, and I am unsure I want to give up the space on a short box. I also prefer to not have the weight that high in the chassis.
We have been farming, planting about 1200acres a day for the last few days. We are rained out today, so I think I will clean the shop a bit and come up with some ideas I like for both a fuel tank, and the beginnings of reassembling the frame/axles/suspension.
If we are going to have a shot at driving this thing around the block as it were by the end of June we need to get some axle under it and start assembling the drivetrain.
Kay spent yesterday spraying some black on the front Dana 60. I haven't yet looked to see how it turned out. I will get a picture or two today latter.
-
I could build a box mounted, flat against the front bed wall tank from scratch. But that's going to be a bit of a process, and I am unsure I want to give up the space on a short box. I also prefer to not have the weight that high in the chassis.
I was going to suggest a bed mounted tank, but you answered before I thought about posting.
-
There will be a update this evening... I am almost sure I will get something done today.
If not, I will take pictures of what I did do... just to say I updated this.
-
Between tornadoes, torrential field destroying rains, a child graduating in a week, and family members still in a state of stupid over my fathers death, not much has gotten done on our project.
To borrow a saying from Don the state of the shop at this moment is...stalled. But we have tell the end of June so whats the hurry?
In the down time here the topic of Dodges frame strength and movement has come up a bit in the Square D thread, as well as is the present cause for much of the stalling on our project...I will explain in the following post.
-
Norm,
I'm personally nominating you as "The" old Dodge SME
Fitting that you are, well, old!
So
Make sure what ye sez is korrekt, comrade, because a lot of folks out here in one's and zero's land (more of the latter in the 'merica) are drinkin it in!
-
Some Dodge frame trivia first: All Dodge frames used in 72-93 trucks are of the same design concept. There are differences obviously in length, but also in frame rail height and material thickness. A few examples... the 1989-1992 W250 frames are 6" rails. While say a crew cab is 7" and also thicker material .250 in my 1985's case. Dodge played with rail size and thickness of the material depending on application and wheelbase/model. So in a easy to grasp way... the standard cab trucks have a thinner and smaller frame than say a crew cab or most club cabs. Add the shorter wheelbase of a standard cab, and the above mentioned smaller frame, you have what one could call a "weaker" frame. It will put more load on a given section of frame due to the frame being shorter. But not so fast... Dodge used the lesser diameter material and smaller rails on these...so they actually might be similar in strength because this would allow greater flex than a heavier frame in the same length...so less fatigue in the metal may result...or in the end similar durability. One may never know but a wise bet is Dodge paid someone a lot of money to figure it all out. Enter this interesting tidbit.... Dodge sold a few late 92-93 standard cab trucks with .250 7" frames... the plot thickens.
Dodge frames fail. This is not hype, it's not internet legend, it's fact. I have destroyed a half dozen at least personally. Of the 30 plus trucks I have parted out I have found probably a dozen others that had failed or were preparing to. I have also learned some very interesting patterns to these failures.....
next>>
-
Every single failed frame had one of the following two modifications or both....
A heavy ridged front bumper, or a ridged gooseneck hitch bolted or welded to the frame. Now I immediately argued to myself well sure man, a truck with a gooseneck hitch gets abused dragging loads all over. Problem with that perfectly logical thinking is one of those failures was a truck I owned for many years and I put the hitch on it. It pulled a gooseneck exactly one time, empty no less, in the entire time I owned it. It, and all the others with that style hitch, broke the frame in the exact same place.....One ever looks at Dodges cross member on the rear "hump" under the bed it's rather flimsy. I am thinking for good reason....more on this latter.
Trucks with large solid well built front bumpers also failed in largely the same place. A crack or in some cases a tear near the engines cradle cross member or the shock mounting area...always in that same exact area. Again.... Dodges front cross member isn't too substantial. Again more latter....
Enter the most horribly abused truck we own. The very crew cab this project consists of. And how odd is it that it has the most pristine frame I have ever seen? No cowl cracks..nothing. It has however torn and shredded many a chrome front bumper. (frame flex) it has destroyed a half dozen rear bumpers (frame flex) but the frames straight, unmolested Mopar gold... this bears some thinking about.
It's a "heavy frame" 7" tall .250 frame and crossmembers. But so are most crew cabs and I have seen some horribly torn up... what gives?
Here is my theory based on MANY old Dodge trucks, MANY miles driving them and the types of abuse I submitted them to.
I feel it's clear that you need to let Dodges frames flex. You can to some degree tie the back frame rails together at the very rear..like say a receiver hitch. This seems to work ok to a degree, but I have torn a few hitches over the years. If you build a real stout hitch, you will tear it's bolts from the frame if abused enough. By abused I mean off road twisting and use, not towing.
In the front it seems any bumper that ties left to right rails together is just fine. As long as it is of a similar thickness as the frame material it seems to just twist and life is fine. When you build a REAL stout bumper or tie the ends of the bumper back to the frame stuff starts to crack. Usually near the engine cross member/shock mounts. I have seen this on trucks that have never left the hyw, even 2x4 stuff.
Why do these trucks have issues cracking by the steering box? I wager it has to do with many factors and frame movement is not probably much of one, if the truck is stock.
Large rubber, a frame designed for a steering box that was no longer used after 1980 and many other things all factor in here. Dodge offered a box brace on some trucks and also over the counter, and it worked. Our crewcab has run crossover steering for over a decade of hard use on bad roads and not a crack in sight. I did however break two sector shafts...maybe the crews .250 frame is the difference. But I have never personally cracked a frame by the steering box. And most I have seen cracked, were on Ramchargers FWIW. A thinner yet frame than the pickups.
-
yet more.... I wish I still had the pictures but my sons club cab he took a before and after picture of his front frame flex with three sets of springs. The oem springs caused a nicely distorted front bumper as is normal. The lighter rate soft lift springs a small movement almost not noticeable and some stiffer springs that actually drove safely the most twist.
conclusion again... spring rates above Dodges intended rate put more load into the frame which is obviously true of any truck. But Dodges like it less than most. Maybe why basically all Dodge front springs are 1900lbs except the light duty stuff, and those all had smaller frames incidentally. What happens when you put a lift spring under a Ramcharger that has the same spring rate as a pickup? You create stress in places not equipped to deal with it. This may be why so many lifted Ramchargers have frame cracking issues. Where the same basic size frame in a half ton pickup is less prone to issues. The longer wheelbase allows more displacement of that energy.
Same thing is why Ramchargers seem to suffer the worst from cowl cracks. Or why a CTD truck will have cowl cracks more often than a gasser. It's all in how much that frame moves vs how it gets rid of the stored energy.
Ever notice a CTD Dodge front frame flex seems less pronounced when twisted than a gasser? I suggest it could be the stouter front core support in the CTD. Take the front sheet metal off a Dodge pickup and go for a drive, you will be amazed how much that sheet metal was designed to stiffen the frame.
Ok so now I have out some thoughts down in print if you will. After my nap, chicken dinner and maybe a back rub, I will share how I intend to transfer this theory to our truck....
-
Hey Norm just to add and I think we covered this before but I will sum up my frame experiences. My RC had 180K when I bought it and the frame was perfect but the cowls were cracked very badly. This was a stock truck but it did have the Warn winch bumper.
The 1992 donor was a tall frame .250 it was a standard cab long bed LE package with many miles 300K I am guessing(ODO quit). It had a goose neck and a big rear bumper and bigger rear hitch, the guy I bought it from pulled a Case 580 backhoe for over 200K every day. The goose neck hitch was a homemade bolt in unit.
The rear frame was perfect, the front was cracked in the dimple area of the frame next to the steering box, but the steering brace was perfect. The cowls were perfect.
Ok back to the RC, I repaired the cracks in the cowl area and I added crossover steering, I didn’t have any issues until I drove the truck to Alaska, after that trip I found two cracks in the frame, one right behind the crossover plate and the other in the area of the passenger side of the shock bracket mount. I am not running big rubber. So I pulled the front clip and engine out boxed the frame and beefed up the crossover area but, the cowl area was cracked again so I cut out all the fatigued metal, replace it with fresh steel and tied in the cowl area into the cab, I have not had it off road to really flex the frame so I don’t know how it will do, I am planning a trip in a couple weeks and I will inspect after that trip.
I agree with what you said about putting a big heavy thick bumper in the front of the Dodges if you do hit something hard you will end up bending the frame.
-
Phil... Your RC is a interesting study as I know you don't abuse it but you have used it. And I am very interested to see what happens as you continue to use it. Any idea out of curiosity what your RC weighs Phil?
This next week if the weather clears it looks like I will be parting out Anvil, and at that point I will have those axles and springs and junk needing a home. I have been considering building another crew cab. Looks like I may have recently bought a Crew Cab parts truck. It remains to be seen, I haven't gotten close enough to get a good look at it with this monsoon weather. But the price is right so we shall see.
If I do buy that one it will be a daily driver build, I might mess with that frame then and experiment. I think I have one or two more 6bt Getrag/205 combos still on the shelves.
-
This wireless internets is neat...it even works in my barn now...just saying.
-
Phil... Your RC is a interesting study as I know you don't abuse it but you have used it. And I am very interested to see what happens as you continue to use it. Any idea out of curiosity what your RC weighs Phil?
.
I have never had it across the scale, but if I had to guess I would say in the 6k range. maybe this weekend I will run it over a scale and get a good number. Yes it will be interesting to see what happens with the frame and cowl repair. I still don't know why the frame cracked behind the boxed section for the crossover because it was a lateral crack so I am still at a loss as to why.
If this frame gives me more problems I will go to a Gen 2 frame and forget all these problems!!!
-
More frame stuff....
(http://i.imgur.com/TPTu2pw.jpg)
Above is the front crossmember looking from the top. Notice the way it's designed to allow frame movement. It doesn't rest against the frame and is shaped to deflect force to the front.
(http://i.imgur.com/LcvJt3w.jpg)
Same crossmember but looking in from the front...
(http://i.imgur.com/bhnJJIG.jpg)
The engine crossmember notice the positioning in the frame, the shape that's designed to flex, and the shape of the mounting area that spreads the load.
(http://i.imgur.com/A2Q1GJS.jpg)
This is the steering box mount... again see the indentation. The way they are shaped again to spread load and to obviously strengthen the mounting area. But clearly designed to allow movement again the in the frame.
(http://i.imgur.com/FZPvE1Y.jpg)
Clearly a relief again angled to allow movement of the frame in a twist. It resides between the engine cradle and the front cross member.
(http://i.imgur.com/WepEXQn.jpg)
the front of the rear spring mount area. Again you can see the concept here, angled to stop work hardening. Also strengthening and random holes to displace energy. These holes are found also i the front frame rails.
(http://i.imgur.com/lzltJ4r.jpg)
Same deal here by the shackle mount....
So what does all this mean? Well it wasn't expected to be ridged, it was clearly designed with the idea that it should flex and it sure does. These are all pictures from a Crew Cab that ran 38" tires, locked axles 600 hp and crossover steering for over 100K miles of gravel roads, Alaska, Canada, Nova Scotia, Mexico and the good old Midwestern usa. It truck pulled, was jumped at the dunes, drag raced, and roamed a lot of trails off road in Colorado. It once hit a Elk, it towed a 16x80 mobile home, if it could be abused we probably did it LoL
-
Now what are the chances that during Dons build someone has the same basic frame that had just been blasted clean.
I think all the holes are there for mounting something. There are so many variations and they just want to make 1 part.
Aren't they (dodge) known for cracking above the rear axle?
-
Before you think all I did all day was stare at my frame and ponder the engineering... I did actually accomplish some stuff.
I grabbed some 1/4" plate and ran down to the farm and tossed it into the brake and made a plate to tie the frame rails and mount springs. I intend to bolt this to a spare bare frame and see how it affects things as I twist it. If it works out as to not be a problem... then cool. If it is a problem I will copy Dodges spring mount design in the front with a few tweaks.
I also grabbed some scrap plate I had in the corner for assorted fab projects and cut it... and then I hacked off a chunk of 2" DOM 1/4 wall to mess around and build some shackle mounts. I figured I am in the mood to fab something (blame Dons bumper) so I decided may as well putz around while waiting for nicer weather.
(http://i.imgur.com/taUP7Od.jpg)
-
This morning.... So I got to thinking maybe we should work on the shackle mounts today. Should not be too hard to fab a few of these up and get back to more important stuff like ordering parts and finding a missing transmission.
Take a look at this mount...
(http://i.imgur.com/FQAQKGZ.jpg)
Notice the "stand off" or machined bosses in the cast piece where the rivets go through. I got to wondering while looking at this if possibly when recreating this part in a more HD version it would be a good idea to replicate these as well. I then got to wondering if they were just done that way and machined flat due to it being a cast part. Another look..
(http://i.imgur.com/mt8ps8o.jpg)
Notice the entire shackle mount is suspended from the frame, all that touches is the boss around each rivet.
I kicked a Email with pictures to a mechanical engineer friend of mine this morning and he called me and we had coffee via the phone. Turns out he feels they are designed to isolate the loading on the frame to that specific area... and he suggested I reproduce them if I am as he put it, "terminally anal"
He also suggested maybe some hardened washers of that size behind the mount would be sufficient and I maybe didn't have to go track down a machinist and have him mill the base plate of my new shackles.
So I left a voice mail with a machinist I use... ;D
JR... I do agree some of the holes in these frames are for assorted different applications. But there are actually only two applications for this frame at the time it was built. 2x4 and 4x4 crew cab short box. And if one believes some lore, this particular model a W350 4x4 actually is allegedly thicker material than the 2x4 versions. If I buy that parts 2x4 crew cab this weekend I will settle that question at that point...
because the hole patterns are different frame to frame from this frame to a similar vintage (I believe 83) W250 frame... I have to think they are holes designed for stress relief.
Here is an example of the holes in this frame on the front where the frame narrows...
(http://i.imgur.com/QrNxdpn.jpg)
notice they are of different sizes as well... I don't think this is random, and no Dodge I have ever seen has anything mounted in this location.
-
Norm,
I find your curiosity thought provoking. I confess I don't ponder it as you do, to me, OK holes are in there as stress relief...Done, next subject, pass me a ham and cheese sandwich!
I recall that very odd pyramid stackup of holes in the rear "Hump" area of the frame. 8 holes each side. You may recall I just said, what the heck, and used all 8 of them for my upper air bag mount. No real reason I could see for them either, and if bothered me that they punched all those holes in what seemed to be a weak and stressed area. I felt I was doing good by essentially bolting in a "Truss" of sorts to giddy that area up some.
Anyway, you ponder these frames too much more and we're never going to see that truck, become a truck!
-
Don....rest assured, daily I get a lecture from my wife regarding this exact subject. "honey did you use the GPS to stripe the lawn again" Or yesterday...."you know your step daughter is graduating HS this weekend, we are having guests...any chance you could fill in the big hole you dug in the driveway to stop the mail man from interloping..." So yeah..... I should get something done.
But while I go about life's chores and duties... I often yearn for the freedom to just sit in my chair and think about what excitement Dodges engineers must have had when they created that frame. When they saw it for the first time go from paper to formed structural elegance. The satisfaction, the knowledge they had triumphed in creating, now would anyone appreciate their devoted efforts?
Ok really....I am just stalling because I can't find the keys for the dang thing. ;D
-
Engineers getting excited over a frame?? Well maybe, but I know what you mean about getting to work. I have been researching and buying alot, time to build!!
I say just give me a pair of 4x8, 250 wall rails and and weld the rest on, maybe a bolt or 2 though.
And whats wrong with using a GPS for a lawn stripe??
-
Norm,
You think too much!
-
Thinking is good, one thing Norm I have not heard you talk about. Manufacturability, I can almost guarantee a lot of these holes are tooling points for the die when they are stamped and from a tooling point is easier to duplicate/mirror the holes than it is to not put them there. Some of those holes were used for many things Dodge never decided to add to the truck or to change mid model and not have to change any tooling. Also the holes could be tooling points while the frame is being put together.
I doubt, almost guarantee with the analysis back in the 70's and 80's they could not tell for sure where the stresses were in the frame to the degree you are talking about, also you are dealing with assembly line, union labor DONT think about your job and just get this thing together mentality. Also Dodge never intended for the trucks to see the abuse and length of time in service. Dodge for the most part built a truck that should be able to loaded to its max payload and be driven for 100K mils and not fail, I said in theory. You bring up good points though, one day if I have nothing better to do I will draw up a frame from the RC and run thru stress analysis and see how it dose.
-
Phil I think you make some good points. That said take a look at the frame under your truck you will see many oval oblong shaped holes. These are your tooling holes you mention. They were used by Dodge for ages, back into the 60's or earlier possibly. My 68 GTX has the same tooling holes in the unibody. The round drilled holes are a mystery really. They are different diameters and patterns on my frame than say a standard cab frame. And again Different than the RC frame as well. Locations, the amount of holes.... it's interesting anyway. I wonder if Dodge didn't just stress test the frames in some type of jig and "tune" as required. When they got it as good as it could get they went into production. No ones knows any more, most likely.
Regardless, I am of the belief messing with what works is not a approach I intend to take with this build. Since my only complaint with this truck the decade or so we abused it was the inability of the 500 inch engine to pass a gas pump...well I am going to remedy that with the Cummins.
Anvil is about done with it's last tank of fuel... it made 21.2mpg last tank so sometime in the net week or so I will have Anvils engine/tranny laying on the floor and this thing may go together a bit quicker. I am interested to see how the 38" rubber and 3.73's effect economy and power. But we have a long ways to go....and my daily driver needs a transfer case ASAP so that may intervene a bit. The last dyno run was apparently more than the 205 wanted to deal with.
-
I didn't get a lot done on the truck today. I had to fi the driveway, mow, kill some weeds, cut some branches and in general, required stuff that cramps truck building time. I did however whip up the bottom plates for my shackle mounts after supper quick so I could cay I did something on the project.
(http://i.imgur.com/sD76Cgb.jpg)
So, in my haste to get something done I wasn't paying attention and whittled those out of some left over 1/4" Ballistic target steel I had left over. *sigh
-
I laughed for a second there. Not at you, more with you.
On Friday I started to fab up the shackle points for my bumper.
Roughed them out, milled them much alike, and started to drill.
Got the pilot hole bored 3 bits later, shrugged that off and it wasn't until I started to bore the 1" hole that I realized I had AR plate, and I was done. Fabbed up new ones from me steel yesterday.
-
New development... my son said he's sure he didn't mix the AR steel with the other cut offs. So maybe today if I can see straight enough, I will attempt to bore a 2" hole through it. If I post pictures of a completed mount, then all is well. That or I will post pictures of a demolished 2" hole saw bit and him buying me a new one. LoL
I also need to find some 52" Chevy leafs so I can do some testing...I have to have some laying around somewhere.
-
I think you have one of everything "someplace" ???
-
I think you have one of everything "someplace" ???
Yeah....well yesterday I didn't own a small hose clamp to fit a 3/8 transmission line that wasn't being used. That's a fact I chuckled about tell almost supper time.
My son in looking for a hose clamp says... so I found a key machine and a few thousand keys, tumblers and tools. I found a milking machine from the 1950's, I found a WW1 Bi plane prop, I found a small steam engine, and a oxen harness. Why do you own 100 or so bags of refractory cement that says US Govt Nuke on the bags? I found a entire 4'x4' crate of stainless Parker fittings...why? I found a radiator shell and grill from a 34 Plymouth, and what looks like a WW2 bomb casing, did you know you have a safe from a railroad Jesse James was too young to rob in your barn? yet no little hose clamps, geeeze Dad.
I told him that its clear I don't own one of everything not even close.... and when he goes to town to buy an entire box, Then I will have at least 10 of those hose clamps. I kid you not, he bought an entire box and then told me to get my own LoL
-
Gave me an early mornin' laugh. Thanks!
-
I want that prop!
-
Don funny story about that prop. I will have to tell you one day.... it's amusing.
My wife has plans for it, she collects/restores pin ball machines and she plans to use it as wall art above her Red Baron machine. That and I have the matching engine for it... and some other parts. I sold the two new never been skinned wings many years ago....probably should have kept those.
Speaking of junk.... We had a LOT of rain again last night, close to 5" So I had to make my drive and check on the fields, cattle and other fun stuff.
Found the gentleman on high ground relaxing.
(http://i.imgur.com/xpxUrcd.jpg)
Then I got a call a cpl old trucks I bought had arrived at the farm... so I headed over and unloaded them.
(http://i.imgur.com/dH2SRhO.jpg)
Just pick them up and drive the trailer out from under it...
(http://i.imgur.com/weusqqb.jpg)
Sometimes I wonder why I bother washing this...
(http://i.imgur.com/e29Dz7O.jpg)
And finally I needed some arbor plates for my press, then I remembered I had this crate of junk behind a building....
(http://i.imgur.com/OVAhqKv.jpg)
I grabbed a cpl of the thick round ones, they should work...... so the crops are ok I guess... but lots of damage from flooding. The cattle are well cattle all's well, none were floating so back to trying to get something done in the shop before someone finds me and expects I do something.
-
Norm,
I find your curiosity thought provoking. I confess I don't ponder it as you do, to me, OK holes are in there as stress relief...Done, next subject, pass me a ham and cheese sandwich!
I recall that very odd pyramid stackup of holes in the rear "Hump" area of the frame. 8 holes each side. You may recall I just said, what the heck, and used all 8 of them for my upper air bag mount. No real reason I could see for them either, and if bothered me that they punched all those holes in what seemed to be a weak and stressed area. I felt I was doing good by essentially bolting in a "Truss" of sorts to giddy that area up some.
Anyway, you ponder these frames too much more and we're never going to see that truck, become a truck!
Where's Duane in all this? They seem like kindred spirits! ;)
-
I second that motion!
-
Phil I think you make some good points. That said take a look at the frame under your truck you will see many oval oblong shaped holes. These are your tooling holes you mention. They were used by Dodge for ages, back into the 60's or earlier possibly. My 68 GTX has the same tooling holes in the unibody. The round drilled holes are a mystery really. They are different diameters and patterns on my frame than say a standard cab frame. And again Different than the RC frame as well. Locations, the amount of holes.... it's interesting anyway. I wonder if Dodge didn't just stress test the frames in some type of jig and "tune" as required. When they got it as good as it could get they went into production. No ones knows any more, most likely.
If you look at the smaller holes they all looked punched to me, I would assume this was done while the frame rails are still flat. Agree the larger holes are problebly tooling holes or could be shipping tie down points or both. A good example is Don's truck his prop valve is bolted to the frame but when Dodge went to rear ABS they moved the prop valve up next to the MC but they left the holes there were the old prop valve was bolted too. I know this is a small example but look at why some of the holes were put in the frame, one of your pictures show where they drilled a hole to install a line clamp so they must of known were they could get away with it. One other thing to add I know the body is supposed to stiffen the frame up and I agree with that but one other place my RC had crack problems was the drivers side floor, I had terrible cracks but for the life of me cannot find a reason why the floor cracked the way it did. I do believe that dodge really cheapened the sheetmetal up in 1986, in the fact it was thinner gauge and I don't think it was domestically sourced.
I would imagine that at some point Dodge did build a jig and do some basic frame twisting but I don't think any of the big three cared about longevity in the era our trucks were built. it would be interesting to talk to some of the assembly line guys that worked the truck line or the Engineers that worked on the structural side of the trucks.
-
Weatherman here says you're gonna get nuked again tonight.
I hope you guys don't get all buggered up by the weather!
Pity about the prop, and engine...seems an aviator should be takin' care of that!
-
The weather is what it is..... accept, cope, regroup, and then try harder. We have spent 1000's of hours moving dirt to redirect water. In the end we have lost some crops, but only in the areas we were aware we would if this happened. I can replant those areas yet if it looks to be a smart move, time will tell.
The cattle worry me more. They are on the wrong side of the river and only have about a weeks worth of grass. If the water lowers/slows I can swim them back across... if not...well, see the above action plan of we will figure it out at that point.
I spent a hour after supper cleaning up that old drill press I scored at that auction a while back. A pair of belts and some elbow grease and it works like new. So now I can redirect the old mini drill press to Mini drill press jobs. So life's good. :)
-
Norm, you have plenty of hose clamps, all used.
-
Still thinking about that prop, but a bit concerned with the WW2 bomb casing...not warm to the touch is it?? Lots of dead plants and bugs all around it? You get an itchy feeling standing next to it? Looking at people standing next to it, it's as if you can see right through them??
-
LoL nah, it's a unused casing from the Naval Ammunition plant here in Hastings. It was never "built" into a bomb. Especially THAT kinda bomb LoL
They are actually common around here. The Army Air Force dropped thousands of "dud" bombs here on farmers fields. So they get found/tilled up constantly. I guess as the story's go they would practice bomb runs twice a night. And some interesting things happened on occasion. Like the time they dropped live ordinance accidentally and completely cratered a wheat field. Or the time some B17's dropped a payload on a small Neb town not far from here. Caved in some roofs, wrecked a few businesses and well "whoops" The Army covered it up rather well *war time secret* and to this day there is a wreck hall the air crews that made the mistake built for the locals as a "we are sorry"
And Don... although I am not a pilot, I have spent many hours flying assorted crop dusters and other odd stuff as a young adult. My uncle was a bush pilot in Alaska (usps) when I was a kid. I spent a few summers up there and learned me plenty of things. ;D
Maybe some day when I find all my pictures.... I will give you all a virtual tour of a Atlas Missile silo property we owned when I was a kid. Thank God Mom sold it years ago or I'd be dealing with the ground water problem it now has. But rest assured, it was a very cool place to explore when I was a kid. Still have my Geiger counter and radiation badges I found there.
Guess if I can't find the pics I could just go take more, I know the owner pretty well. I can say I have been in every Atlas site in Nebraska as a kid/adult. Another uncle of mine made a fortune demilitarizing them.
My welding table at the farm shop is a 4x8 hunk of Silo door. In fact the new one I intend to build for my someday shop at home here will be a old silo door piece as well.
LoL good thing I don't mind OT stuff, or not much would ever get posted here.
-
You are just full of surprizes Norm,,,,,,
Best I had to play in was a burned out H46 they used for fire practice and it was in oil!
-
Ok so.... not loads of progress has been made of late. June is here, it's suppose to be running by the end of June. Now since "running" is a definition I set, I have made the executive decision that "running" equals just that....the engine can be started by some means. And that it will move back and forth via the engines power. Now that we are back on track I am now ahead of schedule. ;D Heck I don't even need to have the cab bolted on to make it run and move right?
Anyway my plan of late is to toss some springs under it and cobble together a few axles, and call it progress.
How hard can that be?
-
Anyway my plan of late is to toss some springs under it and cobble together a few axles, and call it progress.
How hard can that be?
Hard!
Hey I just looked up running in the "Book of Don, Chapter 4 "Meanin's of things"
It sez right there, second paragraph, and I quote:
Runnin' wit respect to a truck means motorized propulsion with enough body werk to have provided a seat fer at least one occupant, made of at a minimum wood or plastic. This contraption would so-propel itself along a road or byway.
So, by definition, you may be close, if, and only if, that gravel pit out by your house actually is restored to being a road or a by-way!
Soldier on!
-
To DOT, or not to Dot Norm's thread...hmm. I choose the first....
We had some of those practice bombing targets around here as well. When I just a baby, my dad and uncle took me for a ride in Dad's homemade desert buggie. There's only one pic if that excursion, and guess what, no seatbelts and it kinda looked like Don's front bumper....yeah, all MadMaxxy...
Well anyway, I was too young to remember, but fast forward 20 years later, some slurred directions from pops, a covert crossing of the local reservation with signs posted "Stay on Paved Roads or you will be buried beneath an ant Hill..." and I found the closest one. Nothing left of the target shack, but plenty of casings. Most were destroyed on impact, but a couple just drilled there way through soft soil....so I dig a couple up, not a dent in them, and still had the smoke "poppers".
I haul them to dad as a gift and he throws them away!!! Yeah, that was my pops and that is another story. I guess about 10 years ago the gooberment (or contractors?) cleaned up all of the sites, as if they didn't exist.
-
Good to see you back here Norm. I have been through a few rainy seasons in my younger years on a farm in So Cal.
Running would be great, just like I need to do with my 1500 Sub. Don does not know what running is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ::)
-
Good to see you back here Norm. I have been through a few rainy seasons in my younger years on a farm in So Cal.
Running would be great, just like I need to do with my 1500 Sub. Don does not know what running is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ::)
Yes I do!
I was a runner for many years. Used to run the Nashville half marathon and a bunch of 10K races!
JR, you'll like this one:
One day after a long run with little Don, Can't remember but I want to say we did the standard 7 mile loop. Anyway we are all showered up and drove the Cobra (Shelby Replicar) over to the hilltop Kroger to get a cold peach tea. The manager there knew us and struck up a conversation when we walked into the place.
He asked Little Don "What have you boys been doing?" "Ah just running" replied my son. The managers facial expression changed and asked, "From what?"
-
It was more on a PUN of SD Don. My running days are over, ankles are shot but I used to do a few miles without much issue. I can move if need be, but I pay the next day!
-
It was more on a PUN of SD Don. My running days are over, ankles are shot but I used to do a few miles without much issue. I can move if need be, but I pay the next day!
I know that JR!
I just spun it and twisted your comment...something I learned from the media!
Be good
And SD will, should, might, could, possibly run some day!
-
Easy there BD, we ALL just want to see SD run.
-
Easy there BD, we ALL just want to see SD run.
Sometimes I think that I am closer to running a marathon than SquareD is to actually running.
I have poured my energy into the bumper, outhouse, farm work and the like. All I need to do is find that TV cable, adjust the throttle cable, finish the brakes and hook up the shift linkage and finish topping fluids and she should be ready to make diesel exhaust.
I just get all wrapped up in the project at hand...
I suppose I don't see it done until it's done and hearing it run is no great personal accomplishment with so much yet to do...
But I like the harassment
But I like it even more that I get to mess with your ,heads. (Was trying to write out, "Boneheads heads" but just couldn't get it to work...)
-
I have to find all those little parts still. I did just get a set of marine injectors though, good to about 370hp. Now for the turbo and build.
DOT is much easier,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Isn't this Norms thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Lol it is my thread... but I don't care really. To update we got 11" of rain and golf ball hail last night. So instead of truck building I will most likely be roofing my house again (twice in two years now) the driveway is so far gone it's 35" tires and 4x4 only at this point. And I hear I will most likely have to help my son and mm roof their homes also...again.
Truck progress... the bare metal is rusting nicely.
-
Truck progress... the bare metal is rusting nicely.
Rust patina...hmmm, might be onto something there Norm
and
Sorry for your misfortunes
If I were closer, I'd come over and help
-
He he, little story when we had some rain one season in a small town called Winchester, Ca. I was 19 just a fresh lad out of HS working as a general mechanic on a Sod farm.
So after a few weeks of rain, the water for the most part was 1-3 ft standing everywhere. A funnel even touched down once and twisted the rolling irrigation line into a nice mess.
Well, we had to get to town and all the roads were under water. This is when I had my 77 GMC lifted 6 inches with 33 tires. So heading down the middle of the roads so not to run into the ditches (you could see a few cars sticking up) I was getting close to Sunset city with an overpass ahead. As I got closer I saw a couple CHP officers watching me drive up. Moving pretty slow as I was pushing a 1-2 wake in front of me. I slowed as I came to overpass seeing the CHP there, but the wake didn't. They just stood there and the wake rolled in and covered them to their knees. Now being 19 I was scared as hell, but they did nothing and I drove into town.
-
So more off topic stuff......
Anyone need a M1031? 6.2L Dana 60/14Bolt detroit rear, LS front. All ready to go.... rust free bodies on the pair. Auction is June 19th
(http://i.imgur.com/Qdna4xE.jpg)
-
If they were crews, I'd be on it like white on rice
You bidding?
Was thinking you could throw down an $800 bid for me and see if I get lucky...But then I'd have another project...
What's the HFS? (Home front situation?)
Have a driveway yet?
Crops?
Roof(s)?
Not even going to think about asking about the W350
-
ken could use those and start a mobile repair business..................?
-
Anything under $2500 a piece I will buy the pair. But I am hoping they go for more as I don't need any more stuff laying around. Last one I had I sold for $5500 and it wasn't as nice as these.
Driveway is semi repaired. 160 ton of rock latter.
Crops... what washed is gone, the rest will survive I think. Some hail damage...hard to say just yet. My guess maybe a 40% loss all said.
House roof is toast. Rest are steel and dented ...no leaks so not going to worry about it tell fall. I think this time the house is getting steel as well.
W350 Rusting peacefully in the shed.
-
So did you buy em'?
Did Miss Kay get anything done on the crew cab cruiser?
-
Nah Auctions tomorrow Don... and I might buy them we shall see. And no she's not done a thing on the truck she's been focused on putting the Ramcharger back together so we can at least have one functioning off road truck for this summer and fall. I should start a build thread on that but.... eh whats the point LoL
-
...putting the Ramcharger back together so we can at least have one functioning off road truck for this summer and fall. I should start a build thread on that but.... eh whats the point LoL
I'll take it!
How many for a Ramcharger build thread?
-
Do it ! what's one more Dodge in a sea of, well, Dodges. lol
-
I'll vote for it as well!
-
OK, a Ramcharger Oil Change,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
-
Norm (or Miss Kay) You listening?
-
OK, a Ramcharger Oil Change,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I thought we were gonna DODGE that topic, but oh NO, you just gotta RAM ahead with it any way! Oh well, MOPAR to him if he does it!
Baaah, haaa, ha........cracked myself up and got all the puns in I could think of about my first brand! 8)
-
^^Out did yourself Mikey! ;)
-
Hello real men this is Kay, I do lurk here and read on occasion. I just don't often have anything to contribute to your interesting discussions.
No matter how much he resists tearing my RC apart, after watching him drive it this afternoon while we went out to check on the crops, I have decided to tear it apart myself.
I have many times encouraged him to tear it apart. I have assured him I don't mind, but he refuses, and now I am playing my last card. Today late this afternoon he left to run his Mom to Iowa to visit elderly relatives for the evening. Since his Father passed away this past February he now often has to shuttle her around.
I realized this was our chance and rounded up two of our three sons, two of our daughters and one hired hand. We have just finished, the transmission, engine, and other parts from my RC are now laying on the shop floor. He's going to be ornery about this, but it's done.
In the morning when he arrives home he will find his Fathers Day present neatly ready for the next step in getting that Crew Cab on the road.
Happy Fathers day to you all.
Kay
-
Looks like Ms Kay uses my wife's motto. "If you want something done just start it yourself and the big dummy will have no choice but to step in and help finish it"
Now if I was just smart enough to figure out a way get her to start on something I really want to do....
-
Welcome miss kay, sounds like you would rather have the crew cab than the RC.
-
That's awesome. ...and welcome miss Kay!
-
Wow, that's gutsy, and that right there is how to get things done. What is the old saying?
"The best way to finish anything is to start!"
Way to go Miss Kay to get this ball rolling! Good for you (two)! Now we'll see this crew start coming up from that great looking frame you worked on so much already!
-
Well, we know who wears the pants and the daisy dukes, DD take over!!
Stop lurking Kay, get your own account!!!
-
Well that will certainly get things started.
I'm not sure how I'd take it or like a surprise like that, but it certainly lends to getting things done!
-
Did we scare them off?
-
I figure Norm took another trip out of town and Ms Kay is busy putting the crew cab together. I'm sure she will fill us in when she is done.
-
I figure Norm took another trip out of town and Ms Kay is busy putting the crew cab together. I'm sure she will fill us in when she is done.
Judging from what we have seen her do so far, I wouldn't put it past her
-
We did did travel a bit. I figured since my wife is my best friend and so much more, I should take her away for the weekend and spoil her like the queen she is to me.
Edited...
On a truck note, we picked up a nice rust free 84 D150 beater for $350 en route home to harvest the front clip off of for the crew cab. The fact that it was cheaper than the night at the resort wasn't lost on me LoL
-
That's a great story....I think I blushed a bit.
-
What, no pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
What, no pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of the purchase?
-
I gotta say, I like Ms. K's STYLE! Quick thinking on her feet and dirt under nails! 8)
-
Don... I forgot to mention. Those Military Chebbies at the auction brought $3700 and $4600 respectively.
Project update: So it looks like Nebraska's Monsoon weather is finally paused or done. Which means we can now actually work out side a bit instead of inside my oven Aka Shop, barn.
So the next order of business is to paint the frame with a few coats, and then get busy bolting on some springs of some sort. Sounds like I have typed this before LoL
I even charged the camera in case I do anything picture worthy.
-
Wow, 4k for 25 year old trucks. But they did have nice beds on them, diesel and smog free!
-
Norm...What's up with this truck frame project ;-)
-
No much Don. Since the eye Dr feels this may be my wife's last summer of driving, we abandoned the project for now.
Also, I decided I may go a different direction with it. I even bought another crew to play with or sell when time allows.
We have been working/traveling too much to get much wrench time in, but we did accomplish a few things. We put Anvil back on the road in what is now I guess Phase 3 of it's life with us.
We tossed a brand new Cummins crate engine in it. A new NOS Bosch VE pump, a new smaller Super B turbo (62mm), and some other fun stuff I won't bore you all with. This saves the "big" Cummins for the crew cab, and keeps us in a 4x4 toy for the summer. With built axles running 4.56's and Detroit's in both ends, it gets around very well off road and manages 20mpg yet.
(http://i.imgur.com/SbG2VTG.jpg)
I just pulled the front bumper off to build a winch mount/bumper.
-
That is sweet Norm. Should be good for another lifetime!
-
Well I hope for the best for the eyes.
Liking the plans for the big motor, and have fun with the bumper project.
Should be an awesome little wheeler in the meantime.
-
Man, thought you bailed on us!
You never mentioned Miss Kay having eye issues...maybe mention it over on the faith area and let us pray for her???
That Ramcharger (Hers) is one of the very best looking I have ever seen!
-
x2 on both. Good to see you around there Kooter. I was hoping to see this thing move down the field but new projects are great. Keep that RC forever, still looks new!
-
Thanks all. And no worries Tate, the Crew cab is going to be getting most all the attention latter this fall/winter. My plan is to retire after harvest *I am going to quit self employment lol* and spend more time with my wife. She has sold her catering business, and now is the time for us to relax and get some stuff done. We just will have less funding to play with...but that's the least of my concerns.
-
I USED to think retirement would give me lots of free time. I do have a few little ones to deal with though.
Maybe really see what you have stored around there!!!
-
Good for you. Looking forward to hearing more about your escapades and bending your ear on tech if that's OK with you. Might be nice to plant a little garden you can tend for fun rather than work, catalog and sell me your spicer collection, and build a truck or two? Did I say that out loud?
In reality, I may call you looking for obsolete parts in the future, just be ready.
-
Tate mentioned adventures, boy did we have one last night. I will try and shorten this the best I can.
Kay and I took Anvil and drove to town and got some Arbys. We then decided we hadn't saw a flick in a while so we went to the theater and dined on Arbys while watching the new Terminator. After the movie things got interesting... I had left Kay to run to the women's room and I stepped out side and was immediately greeted with "that smell" The smell of a powerful storm about to hit. This is about 11:40pm... and as Kay got to the truck the wind was starting to build and was about 30 mph.
I leaned on the Cummins hard and we streaked for home. Of course we were headed right into the storm. We had our 4 daughters still at home, and to top it off they are watching two of our grand kids while my oldest son and his wife had a date night. Kays on the phone trying to call the kids but no answer, I have the Cummins cranked to 4300rpm right on the governor and the winds starting to get worse.
I am estimating we are going to get home about the time the storm proper hits. The winds are getting intense enough I am having to slow down to about 80mph on the gravel as the trucks being pushed by monster wind gusts. At this point there are smaller tree branches flying around and corn stalks adding to the fun.
About a 1/4 mile from the house the straight line winds hit. It pushed us right across the gravel road sideways towards the right hand ditch. Kay yanks the transfer case lever back hard just as we hit the grass and head in. I realized she had the hubs locked as the front Detroit bit in and I sawed the wheel to the left and somehow got back onto the road just to see most of a tree fly past in front of us.
As we turned into our driveway I yelled at Kay to get the kids in the basement shelter, and I would be right behind her as soon as I got Anvil in the shed. I turned into the door yard Kay jumps out as I slow down and slide to a stop. She turns and runs across the front of the truck and then just like a rag doll she fly's backwards about 25' end over end and hits the hedge line. I put my entire shoulder into getting the drivers door open and finally get out and Kays low and going for the house so I follow just as our son and his wife come sliding in. We left the Ramcharger and the kids Suburban idling in the dooryard and ran for the basement.
All is well, and a walk around this AM displayed plenty of evidence I should have sharpened a few chains for the saws. We have a few trees down, loads of branches and it looks like we got lucky. We are still on generator at 7am but I am sure they will get the power fixed by lunch. Welcome to Nebraska, where you can hear the words from the weather man "we have a 60 mph breeze with some straight line winds approaching 100 mph, seek shelter if you suspect flying debris"
-
(http://i.imgur.com/I1NkSxN.jpg)
This tree was 40' It snapped off bout 10' from the ground, pin balled through the other trees and hit the west side of the house.
(http://i.imgur.com/51D1ebB.jpg)
God clearly likes this topper. It left the truck (proof topper clamps suck) and landed 20' away unscathed. And to top it off the tree branches all missed it also.
(http://i.imgur.com/I7SzE0p.jpg)
There are some doors missing off one building, we lost a windmill fan and a few windows on the barn/shop. Looks like maybe a weeks worth of work and good as new. So all in all no big deal. The dog kennel took a tree branch into the fence but not to worry, both the sled dog and the dumb lab were running around this morning on the lawn like it was Christmas. No shortages of branches to grab run around, play tug of war over, and then drop and go get another.
-
Holy smokes!
Near miss for sure!
Glad you all are OK!
-
great story tellin skills right there. glad everyone is alive and well.
-
Wow, quite a near miss. Glad to hear all is well with the family and the farm.
-
Great story Norm. Good all are OK.
-
I may have to start a separate thread for Anvil, it seems I just have to keep working on it. It would appear when we took the cruise through the ditch last night we "tweaked" something. There was a fair mount of wood wedged into the U-bolt inner C area of the pass side front axle. My guess I hit a semi rotten tree stump.
This morning while driving over to check on our neighbors I hit some washboard gravel and got a nasty case of death wobble. My guess is a broken king pin bushing or a busted spring. That or I cracked the knuckle. I see the tie rod is a bit tweaked also.
Once again this is a appropriate time to complain as to why no one makes HD aftermarket knuckles with a Dodge tie rod location.
-
I think they do as they seem to be referred to on the 4x4 sites for the guys running huge tires.
Reid makes em after a quick search; http://www.reidracing.biz/off-road-products/dana-60-knuckles/chevy-heavy-duty-dana-60-kingpin-steering-knuckles
-
Jr sadly those are not the same as a Dodge knuckle. They have a Chevy tie rod location which is much lower than Dodges. Dodge gets no love LoL
-
Man, I was looking forward to stories but you didn't have to go and get caught up in some crazy storm on my account! Glad to hear no one was seriously hurt.
-
So yesterday is behind us, but it was a productive day. I am going to make a post in the DOT area about it.
So the pass side steering knuckle was cracked from our little adventure Fri night. So Anvil is sporting a replacement off my parts shelf, and we drove it all over creation and it ran like a dream. We have decided to turn this into a bit of a expo kinda truck so opinions.... ya all want to see thread on it, or blah it's just another old Dodge? LoL
-
Thread!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Thread!!
-
Put er up in a thread.
There's bound to be lots of interest in it as well as at least some one will benefit.
-
Yea, I'm gonna have to pull rank or age or something like that here
Norm: Thread
Move out! :D
-
OK, so the GM and Dodge are not the same.
If you just go cross over steering, would that solve a couple issues??
OK. New thread,,,,,,,,,,,,
-
Thread thread thread!
-
I think he did Mr Tate: http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=1207.0
-
yeah, I was struggling with some insomnia last night and didn't see the date, just NEW on the comments and chimed in, lol.
-
so tate is not paying attention.....while he is out camping.......;D
-
Back from camping, but my brain is still out there. There were trout as big as my arm from elbow to finger tip just swimming up to us in the tubes. guess they get used to tourists dropping food because they didn't leave until the dog jumped in to try and catch em. I dream about it!
-
Back from camping, but my brain is still out there. There were trout as big as my arm from elbow to finger tip just swimming up to us in the tubes. guess they get used to tourists dropping food because they didn't leave until the dog jumped in to try and catch em. I dream about it!
My kids want to go again next week fishing for the same up near Shasta. Don't think I'm in for a 250 mile drive for a overnight trip. Of course the 55* lava tunnel is nice during the 100* heat. Ever hear of Hat Creek??
-
Hadn't heard of it but looks beautiful. Norm, how're things shaking on the homefront there sir?
-
Gee.....sorry I'm late but glad you survive that storm and ride home...yikes! For all our "power" mother nature has a way of showing us who's boss doesn't she? I remember camping outside Phoenix with the kids on a cross country trip....watching a beautiful thunder and lightning storm to our west over the city....having dinner...enoying the fireworks....never even saw the hailstorm moving up on us from behind. Next thing I knew it sounded like a freight train coming right into the campsite. I got the wife and kids inside and then set to trying to break down camp. Got it done dodging branches (one good thing about the desert- the debris was not huge) and other crap flying around. I think the other campers furniture was the most deadly stuff I had to avoid. Next AM was like a bomb had gone off. But it was another fun story for the kids.
Love the Ramcharger! Always liked them. I hope your wife is doing well....that's a scary thing. I am sorry.
-
Well, don't tell the prez who is in charge of the weather. We have to fix this!!!!
Had one of those spring showers last year up in the sierra's. kayaking and fishing on a nice lake around 8k up and the sky looked funny. Then it got dark as it rolled in from the south and we watched it come across the lake at us. Good thing this was a trailer trip and not a tent trip as it was nasty for around 2 hours. Kids were fine with popcorn and a movie and I got to recharge the batteries without disturbing anyone!