REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL

VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Build Threads => Topic started by: JR on December 18, 2014, 01:07:38 AM

Title: 1991/1985 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 01:07:38 AM
Man you guys are tuff  8)!!!

OK, you asked for it, you get some. I also finally added "Spartan" as that is what you all want and its different.

You saw the first pic but here it is again. After looking it over, we loaded it up. Could easily have driven it home, but I figured for the $60 trailer rental I was sure I would get it there.

Has an Optima battery and she started right up after a wire was wiggled a couple times, everything worked! It did through the belt as I loaded it and the closest auto store was at least 10 miles back.

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What you see above is the continuation of this thread; http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=81.msg679#msg679

My 1500 Suburban that will now get flipped to fund this!!

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The 2500 here is going to receive a 1991 6BT Cummins, 47r tranny and NP205 from a couple diff trucks.

It will also get a Dana 60 from a Dodge with the passenger drop. Right now that has 4.10 gears and external locking hubs that will be changed to internal hubs.

The rearend will be a GM 14 bolt FF with 4.10 gears also. It will get disc brakes and some type of locker.

Both axles are 67 WMS to WMS and are 8 lug with 9/16th studs.

The frame will get boxed at least to the drivers door, but probably well past that.

I will do a rear shackle flip to gain around 5 inches in back and probably use the stock springs or a new set of 1 ton springs. Front will get new spring too as the are a reverse arch right now so a good solid spring set (with military wrap) will go up front to hold up the extra 500lbs of motor.

These thing have terrible bump steer so it will get crossover steering.

As for the interior, it is a truck. It screams utility but is solid for a 206k truck. It has rubber mats and front bucket vinyl seats, 2 row bench and no 3rd row for now.

Stock it has a 42 gallon fuel tank with a skid plate. This is fine for a start but I can see another 25 gallon in there someplace.

For the 6BT there are bolt in mounts for the conversion, but at $600 I think I can fab what I need quite well.

I am leaning towards hummer wheels or similar. I want steel wheels that you can bend back if you bend em. Plus a split wheel you can change, god knows I busted enough trucks tires in my younger years to have a hold on that.

It will have custom front a rear bumper with a new winch and nerf/steps bars of some type.

Everything will get freshened up at minimum as it goes in.

Now all this is a good start and is subject to change without notice,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 01:35:09 AM
Now this just fit on the trailer. In fact had to let the air out of the front tires for the strap to hook up.

Speaking of tires, they are brand new and look great!! I guess sitting on a hill side in Inverness for 8 years ha some benifits. Well at leas until you see the mold all over the truck.

As you can see the front right fender needs some TLC, like a replacement! Found it got the hood a little and there was a small dent up top above the right front door.

Then some bad which I show later is some rust through just above the center door piller on each side. Not real bad, but it will need to be addressed.

207, 900+ miles and she sounds great!! 4 wheel drive works good and no funny noises until we start to put it on the trailer. Pop the hood and the belt is started to frey. That I can handle but the darn tensioner is frozen.

Stop in Vallejo (not the nicest place) for some of the best chicken teriyaki around.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 01:39:00 AM
Finally get her home and just then the rain starts (remember I'm a wimp) but I don't melt and the kids have a blast climbing all over and riding as I unload here.

I dump her off and run the trailer back (uhaul was a pain)
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 03:33:15 AM
So delving in a little more I like the GMC much better than the Chevy. The Chevy front is to busy, GM is business. JMHO

The the thing hanging off the front, yes the Warn Winch. It was supposed to be gone but was not. Hey not a bad deal for $700  8)

Checking out the drivers seat. This is a truck, nothing more. AM radio, vinyl buckets up front, no consel, just a 4x4 shifter.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 03:43:50 AM
The back seat is just that but it is valour, but still blue. Non of the seats are that bad, but I think the fronts will get something more wrap around and a custom counsel.

Then there is the rust, both sides. This will need attn for sure and not later!

Talk about room, this has it. No fuse, no seat and no rear AC or heater.

Then there is stuff growing on the hood,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmmmm IT LIVES  :o ???
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 18, 2014, 07:48:50 AM
Shoot, that will clean up great!

I'd like one full day on it...Pull the interior out and pressure wash everything. top side, inside, underside, everything.

Then access what you have, which I suspect is going to be one fully intact great truck. But then again, you want to barn door it, so not as much cleaning as I suggested, Then again, clean it and sell the body tub, asking say $1200 and take $700 as your low number and the truck was free.

Oh and Duane and I are calling that winch...really. We'll discuss the $$$ and buy that from you and you will be $$$ ahead!

I really want to see Duane rebuild that winch to like new and mount it on his ugly jeep!

Great buy JR! I'm surprised you can get that much truck for so little, and in kali...! Crazy!
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Nate on December 18, 2014, 09:31:22 AM
great looking find definitely
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: BobbyB on December 18, 2014, 09:48:06 AM
Good job snagging it. Now the fun begins.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 11:43:37 AM
It will look totally diff after a cleanup. Probably get on it today since its not raining.

Only issue on the winch will be shipping. Even broken down it may have to go on a pallet. Something will work for sure, bumper too?

I am going to leave the 1500 on this thread and switch the 2500 to a new one when I get going. Need to flip that 1500 now for space and $$$

A for the 1500 the paint will probably be OD with a rocker panels in undercoating, hood black. With those wheel I think that will look great.

The 2500 will be black or dark grey with undercoating low also. Nice is that is has the tank skid plate and no power. It just clicks for this project.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 18, 2014, 11:53:59 AM
Serious about that winch

If you want to sell it, Ky is buyin!

No bumper, just Mr. Warn!

You plan to pull the body off the frame, or??

Anyway, yea, start it on a new thread with the dirty/ugly first, then the cleanup

Interested to see this classic raised from the dead
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 12:01:47 PM
Now the the Miller is back up I can weld the pads and shocks mounts to the 1500. I need to back her into the garage for this as working 3 ft from the street and transferring rearends on a slop is not fun.

3 wires that were cut in the ignition under the dash need addressing (way to much alarm stuff) and she will be a runner.

I am hoping for at least 2500 out of it, maybe 3k if she looks real good I am into it for about 1500 now. Had a guy who wanted to trade his 85 Diesel 2500 for it in Sac, but it was a tailgate and not that clean.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
That could work out as a teaser add on for the 1500. I have a new 6000k winch on the shelf that would fill that hole. That matches the burbs weight, but no way I would run that on the 2500 with a 1000 cummins in it.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 18, 2014, 01:15:24 PM
I learned this in the US Army vehicle recovery school some time ago

If the vehicle is submerged in mud up to the axles then the winching weight if 1.6 times the weight of the vehicle.

So a 6500 lb Surburban requires 10,400 winching force.

So one can plan for say a 10,000 lb winch single line or use a smaller winch and double up the line with a pulley. That doubles any winch pull. But given that most winches have about 100' useable line, you would need for the anchor point to be only 40-50 feet away.

Really when you are talking full size trucks with diesel engines, I'd stay around the 12K size to be sure. Leave the smaller winches for half ton light trucks or jeeps.

Nice thing about the Warn 8724 is a very generous line length, what, 150 feet I think?

But no other winches offer such long pull lines therefore making that particular Warn a very good winch!
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 18, 2014, 02:05:26 PM
That is why the 6000k was never mounted, not even sure what motivated me to get it. But yes, 10-12k is what it will get and a Massive bumper.

Not sure what is on the warn, but the guy said trees were no problem.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: ce_tx on December 18, 2014, 08:17:17 PM
That GMC is a clean burb!  You stole that thing!!
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 04:40:49 AM
Thanks Eric (AKA:Bruiser)

There is a little more rust I found but nothing to really be concerned over. Besides above the back doors I found a little more under the rear doors when I power washed it today. I think I found a fender for it and need to find the winch a good home,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 05:06:27 AM
So I power washed her off today, threw on a new serpentine belt and looked it over a little more in the light with no rain. I dropped 2 sockets in the frame to and for the life of me I can't find em. Even washing didn't flush em out  :(

As stated above I found a little more rust under the back door. Wasn't visible until I washed it off! Spent about 2 hours with the power washer, wiping the jams and doors down and even power washed some interior areas.

Must say it looks like a new truck. 206k miles and it starts fine on 8 year old gas(nasty smell) and the oil looks ok too. Gonna change that as I will drive this a little while I flip the 1500.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 05:07:43 AM
She was dirty to say the least,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 05:09:35 AM
And washed up just a little,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Almost purdy as SD  :o
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 07:44:38 AM
Start-the-new-thread...Start the new thread...Start the new thread...start the new thread...Start the new thread...Start the new thread...Start the new th......
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 07:52:44 AM
Thanks Eric (AKA:Bruiser)

There is a little more rust I found but nothing to really be concerned over. Besides above the back doors I found a little more under the rear doors when I power washed it today. I think I found a fender for it and need to find the winch a good home,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bruiser??? You know each other?
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: KensAuto on December 19, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
Looks like you need a new yard before you need a new thread!! lol
....bruiser, from the other website, from which you stole him.
JR, I'm closer than those other knuckheads (that want that winch).:)
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 10:20:18 AM
Don, you right and I was thinking the same thing as I typed at 0130.

Yep, will split thread, starting with the cleanup for the 2500 and finish the flip here as so named!!

Yep, read Erics entire thread but he is not done and its been 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not quite going for that new car build.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Nate on December 19, 2014, 12:04:02 PM
cleaned up pretty good. 
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 01:00:33 PM
Looks like you need a new yard before you need a new thread!! lol
....bruiser, from the other website, from which you stole him.
JR, I'm closer than those other knuckheads (that want that winch).:)
Hey...
I called that winch first
But not for me
For my bonehead catfish pilot friend!
And, believe me, you WANT to see him rebuild it.
After he finishes, I'll call in some favor and get it for myself!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 01:06:22 PM
Don, you right and I was thinking the same thing as I typed at 0130.

Yep, will split thread, starting with the cleanup for the 2500 and finish the flip here as so named!!

Yep, read Erics entire thread but he is not done and its been 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not quite going for that new car build.
Well, I think you will do well, and if not there will be no peace for you from this crowd!

What you have is the quintessential build. Like Bruiser's Crew and to some extent SquareD, taking these over the hill, left for dead vehicles and renewing them adds a cool factor you can't find in any new car showroom. For a fraction of the cost of new, you can nearly get better everything...mileage, resale, cool factor, crunchability against any modern car (or truck) and you won't see yourself every 20 minutes in the other lane. Uniqueness and self expression, an art form literally.
Guys like Bruiser, or Eric, and Duane build these things to such a standard as to achieve art. Seriously, you see a finished lifted old burb purring with 12 valve perfection and you will literally draw a crowd with every stop. Try that in a Nissan! Aien't happenin'
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 01:07:40 PM
And I was thinking, widen those wheels out to 9"-10" and leave them steelies with the hub caps if you can and that would be a look for a street/trail truck.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 03:05:50 PM
And I was thinking, widen those wheels out to 9"-10" and leave them steelies with the hub caps if you can and that would be a look for a street/trail truck.

Yes I kinda like the stock look and it will have steel wheels.

Yup, Don has dibs!! (did I really say that??)  :-\

You can tell I was falling asleep!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 06:00:04 PM
And I was thinking, widen those wheels out to 9"-10" and leave them steelies with the hub caps if you can and that would be a look for a street/trail truck.

Yes I kinda like the stock look and it will have steel wheels.

Yup, Don has dibs!! (did I really say that??)  :-\

You can tell I was falling asleep!!!!!!!!!

You're on record now!
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: KensAuto on December 19, 2014, 06:47:10 PM
The man is delusional, don't listen to him!!
Dib's (sarcastic smile) lol
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 07:08:41 PM
Dibs, could mean Bids,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just saying.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: ce_tx on December 19, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Bruiser was my wheeling/rock crawling nick name with the guys I used to wheel/wrench with, which most were on the texas4x4.org site where I started the build thread for my crew cab build.  Later on I started another one on DTR and try to keep them both going whenever I make some progress.

JR your burb will be very nice however far you take it with the build process.  A square body burb with a 12V and sitting on 1 ton axles is really cool recipe IMO.
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: JR on December 19, 2014, 08:15:16 PM
Bruiser was my wheeling/rock crawling nick name with the guys I used to wheel/wrench with, which most were on the texas4x4.org site where I started the build thread for my crew cab build.  Later on I started another one on DTR and try to keep them both going whenever I make some progress.

JR your burb will be very nice however far you take it with the build process.  A square body burb with a 12V and sitting on 1 ton axles is really cool recipe IMO.

Thanks, hope I can do justice to her after seeing our build. We are kinda coming from opposite ends there. You started the build with making a new truck in mind and bought a new truck mid way. I have a Dmax and am building the truck it cannot be.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2014, 11:49:05 PM
Bruiser was my wheeling/rock crawling nick name with the guys I used to wheel/wrench with, which most were on the texas4x4.org site where I started the build thread for my crew cab build.  Later on I started another one on DTR and try to keep them both going whenever I make some progress.

JR your burb will be very nice however far you take it with the build process.  A square body burb with a 12V and sitting on 1 ton axles is really cool recipe IMO.
Texas ehh,

I went to a new church tonight who's senior pastor is a Texan. What a sermon...Wow is all I can say! I'm definitely going back Sunday!

Oh, and Bruiser it is!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 20, 2014, 11:48:40 AM
JR,

Judging by what I am seeing and what you plan to do with it, the perfect name for this truck/project popped into my mind:

Spartan!

Project Spartan

Spartan project

either way it works...
Title: Re: Re: 1991 Suburban Build, maybe flip or 6BT?
Post by: ce_tx on December 20, 2014, 01:54:16 PM

Thanks, hope I can do justice to her after seeing our build. We are kinda coming from opposite ends there. You started the build with making a new truck in mind and bought a new truck mid way. I have a Dmax and am building the truck it cannot be.

Yeah I got to the point where I really needed, in my mind anyway, a dependable daily driver and tow rig.  I could see the 85 crew cab project taking a lot longer than expected so I bought a new truck. 

Eric
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 20, 2014, 02:12:42 PM
Have you made any progress on the CC?

Spartan huh?? It could work.

"Non-Crunchability, Uniqueness and Self expression", an art form literally. That is why we do most of this, right?

Got to get it registered monday, then do a fluid change so I ca drive it around some. Pull the winch and bumper and put the stock on it for now.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on December 20, 2014, 03:45:57 PM
Nice, JR.  This is gonna be good.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 20, 2014, 05:29:37 PM
Guys, been looking at springs. Not spending the $$$ on deaver or alta.

Of all the springs out there, who do you guys like?

Shocks are another story. Probably stick with Bilstiens 5150 but open to opinions.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 20, 2014, 06:39:43 PM
Guys, been looking at springs. Not spending the $$$ on deaver or alta.

Of all the springs out there, who do you guys like?

Shocks are another story. Probably stick with Bilstiens 5150 but open to opinions.
I buy from SDTruckSprings.com
The new rear springs for SquareD were $136 ea... 5+1 leaves, 64" spring. 2.5" wide. 2050lb capacity. 6.5" arch...pur-fekt!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: BobbyB on December 20, 2014, 07:37:19 PM
then do a fluid change

Those can get VERY exhaustive and in depth.. be careful  ;D
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 20, 2014, 08:09:22 PM
then do a fluid change

Those can get VERY exhaustive and in depth.. be careful  ;D

Yes, so I have read for the past year!!!!!!!!!  8)
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: ce_tx on December 20, 2014, 08:32:23 PM
Only progress is ordering parts for the interior no actual work on the truck itself.

Your on the right track with the shocks, Bilsteins are very good shocks.

Are you wanting lift springs are stock ones?  Alcan makes springs as well and are a little less money than Deaver or Atlas.  Might give them a call when you figure out exactly what you want/need.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 20, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Yes, I want to lift the rear but use the shackle flip for that. Keep the springs flatter and no block for better torque transfer.

For the front I want to go with the stock mounts and adjust the height with shackles.

I am looking for about a 6 inch lift. So if I get 4 inches from the flip, I would need about 2 inch rear springs and 6 inch front.

Of the BIG companies who makes the best springs? If I order from Summit I get free shipping and they are just "over the hill" if I need to pickup or return.

I have to check but I think all the springs are the same length, which is a plus if I have to repair in the field without having to source front vs rear.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 21, 2014, 02:35:39 PM
What do you think about these wheels;
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 21, 2014, 02:50:19 PM
Plus I guess the front springs are 48 and the rears are 56. So it means a relocation of the front mounts if I use the same spring lengths.

Also found more rust near the back doors, Still happy over all but thats what you get with a older truck!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 21, 2014, 04:10:49 PM
Wheels would be OK

But if you aren't going to use the widened factory wheel, then there are some folks out there in Kali somewhere who weld that exact center into Armee HMMV wheels and sell them with a 37" tire...

Might want to look into that
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: ce_tx on December 21, 2014, 08:55:34 PM
On my 71 and 89 K5 blazers I built for street and wheeling I used Tuff Country springs on the front that I bought from Offroad Designs.  Like you I did the shackle flip in the rear on the 89.  On the 89 I had about 6" of lift with the combination of 4" Tuff Country springs in the front, 1" zero rates (left the axle in the stock posistion) front and rear, shackle flip in the rear and a 1" body lift.  This cleared 38" TSL/SX Super Swampers with some mild fender trimming in the front and rear.

The K5 road great on the road, I also did cross over steering as well, and flexed really good on the trail.  I was also running a D60/14B combo on this truck as well.

Eric

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 22, 2014, 01:32:30 AM
The rear is pretty much settled using the flip and new springs. They arch a little and are flat across the overload. I think 2 inch springs with the flip would be about right. Then match the front to that with 6 inch springs. Considering the front are neg arch now even a 6 inch lift should just arch them a little, plus I need the extra for the 1000 lb motor going in!

I am going to start the lift and retro before the motor swap. The frame is pretty clean just showing a little surface rust near the rear and mostly facing forward. Body underside is nice. Not as clean as the 1500, but nothing to worry about much. My main concern is the upper edges all around the cab. I think pulling the headliner (which needs RR anyway) and spraying something in there will do the trick.

Plus with it lifted some it will be so much easier to work on.

Got her cleaned out good yesterday and had the boys wiping down the inside today. They found about a dollar and were stoked. Started a "fluid change" today and have a couple stuck bolts on the tranny. Even with a 6 pt it rounded off 2 bolts.

On the wheels I was thing bigger than 16s which are on it now, but not set in stone. I do like the stock look but those darn hubcaps are like gold. Summit has 8 inch wide stock 16x8 wheels which would be about the minimum. I think 35s would be about right, even with the 4.10s and OD

By the way, the winch works great!!

Also need to source some new rubber floor mats. The stocks are shot for sure. The front is the main thing as I can just cut something up for the back.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 22, 2014, 02:40:52 PM
Went to LMC truck and they had the mats. Was a little surprised at $400 for the whole set, but they had them.

Also got new cargo door strikers and latches, they had seen better days and the doors would not close tight.

Plus everything was in stock, that can be rare sometimes.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 26, 2014, 04:21:14 PM
As I upgrade and lift I will clean her up, seal the underside and re-enforce many parts/areas. I am almost done with the "fluid change" and the only hitch is the tranny service since you have to remove the cross member to access the rear bolts. Then a little grease and she will be a driver.

First things first is I am getting it into a daily driver mode. This will cut down on the Dmax miles (well over 100 now) and give me a better feel for further upgrades and needs. Looks nice with the inside cleaned up but it needs a console so I can set down my coffee and hide some toys.

Ok, so lets start working on this lift. Options for the rear are a 2 inch and 4 inch shackle flip and then get springs to get the 6 inch total.

I have been looking at these;

One is 2 inch, the other is 4 inch. I think both will need a little re-enforcement.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 26, 2014, 09:14:38 PM
What do you guys think of the Badland winches (HF)? The 11k is on sale right now for $299 and I have a coupon and a gift card!!!!!! I would add synthetic line also.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on December 26, 2014, 09:56:24 PM
I have one, the 12 k one. Have yet to use it, but I've on DF there is a thread about them.
I'll go see if I can find it, but the short answer is they seem to work good.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 26, 2014, 10:04:44 PM
I have one, the 12 k one. Have yet to use it, but I've on DF there is a thread about them.
I'll go see if I can find it, but the short answer is they seem to work good.

They have a good review from off road and it is the 12k,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on December 26, 2014, 10:08:45 PM
I'm on my phone and having trouble copying the link...
Thread started by 'brokesmoke' and is called 'harbor freight badlands 12k winch install/review.

Made me feel a lot better about going the cheap route or the non name brand route.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 26, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
So, while doing the fluid change I had to pry the penzoil filter off. It looked pretty bad on the outside and the oil was black as expected. I put a generic back on since I didn't want to shock the system (and I had it on hand) You can put a 2 quart filter on these like used on HD trucks.

Checking the tranny the oil looked pretty good. Very little black on the dipstick when checked on a white towel. As I said above I have to remove the cross-member to get the pan bolts off. Back 2 bolts cannot be accessed otherwise.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2014, 07:37:46 AM
Ah...The fluid change has begun!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on December 27, 2014, 09:34:15 AM
So, while doing the fluid change I had to pry the penzoil filter off. It looked pretty bad on the outside and the oil was black as expected. I put a generic back on since I didn't want to shock the system (and I had it on hand) You can put a 2 quart filter on these like used on HD trucks.

Checking the tranny the oil looked pretty good. Very little black on the dipstick when checked on a white towel. As I said above I have to remove the cross-member to get the pan bolts off. Back 2 bolts cannot be accessed otherwise.

JR, just take the trans mount stud nut off and raise the trans with a jack and a block of wood.....then cram a 2x4 or similar between it and the crossmember to prop it up while you do what you do.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2014, 09:41:37 AM
As I upgrade and lift I will clean her up, seal the underside and re-enforce many parts/areas. I am almost done with the "fluid change" and the only hitch is the tranny service since you have to remove the cross member to access the rear bolts. Then a little grease and she will be a driver.

First things first is I am getting it into a daily driver mode. This will cut down on the Dmax miles (well over 100 now) and give me a better feel for further upgrades and needs. Looks nice with the inside cleaned up but it needs a console so I can set down my coffee and hide some toys.

Ok, so lets start working on this lift. Options for the rear are a 2 inch and 4 inch shackle flip and then get springs to get the 6 inch total.

I have been looking at these;

One is 2 inch, the other is 4 inch. I think both will need a little re-enforcement.
JR, looking at that shackle flip bracket, I believe I would drill another frame mount hole in the middle between the two existing ones and get 6 bolts handling all that leverage instead of 4

Reason is the force it both prying outward (Stretch, and shear, which probably puts those bolts at their greatest disadvantage. You could get 50% more holding force (And backup) by adding the two more...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 27, 2014, 01:27:48 PM
Lifting the trans would actually make it tougher from what I can see. The mount/member covers about 1/2 the bolt now and that would just tweak it farther up with giving less access.
I will post a couple pics, but removing the member is just 6 bolts including the trans mount.

On the shackle flip I had already planned to gusset the center of it. I see many have plate under the frame too. I have to look but I think the stock mount has a plate there too.

While doing a little research I found this writeup on winches; http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/129-1107-massive-multi-winch-shootout/
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2014, 02:37:59 PM


While doing a little research I found this writeup on winches; http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/129-1107-massive-multi-winch-shootout/

Ouch!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on December 27, 2014, 02:44:12 PM
It's not tough with a 13mm swivel socket. :)

...I'm not reading that link....nope....not going to.....I'm about ready to bolt mine on!
(http://i.imgur.com/LOa9LXS.jpg)
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2014, 03:10:42 PM
The harbor freight 12K winch was voted "The best deal in winching"

No one said it had to work!

I think it just had to be packaged well, look good, and cost very little...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 27, 2014, 04:05:33 PM
Well, I have a couple HF winches and they work fine. In fact I used one for building may garage and lifted a 25ft versa lam above the 2nd floor.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on December 27, 2014, 04:06:45 PM
Ken and Big D, I'm with you guys and have one in my possession. I don't care about what they did with the 9k class.......we have 12k ones.  :o
If that helps. But I know the guys talking about them on DF are quite happy with them.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 28, 2014, 12:39:10 AM
So as I said, the cross-member is coming off. The 1st picture shows why. You cannot access those rear bolts with the CM in place or the tranny mount!!

Really just 4 bolts (well 6 with the tranny mount) and 5 minutes of work. Took longer to run the hose and get the tools.

Plus these pan bolts are necked down 8mm bolts with 10mm heads, the front 4 are 13mm and easy to get too. Two rounded while trying to get them off and had to use a craftsman stripped bolt remover for those.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 28, 2014, 12:44:49 AM
Yeah, I didn't use an impact socket but they were not tight at all. At least this rig has a real skid plate!

So off she came but still not exposing the last 2 bolts. So he mount came off to.

Now you can see all the bolts as you should and you know it is almost always a mess getting those pans off.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 28, 2014, 11:04:38 PM
Ok, so here I am chugging away on the change. 4 of the pan bolts were frozen and the handy little craftsman tool did its job great.

Pulling the pan the fluid looked really good and the filter did not match what I had. Well a quick search showed that I had a 4L80 trans vs the 700R4. And along with the clean fluid I noticed the gasket was metal with a rubber lip. along with having the 4L80 I think the trans was changed sometime late in this 206k mile life.

All this is great as I planned on driving this thing while I planned the swap and sold the 1500. Good news too is the 1500 books at almost $5000  ;D
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 28, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Then I made a dash to the local Oriellys for the right filter and this came home with me too.

Had a discount coupon, gift card and a small return meaning it just ran $230 out the door.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on December 28, 2014, 11:13:14 PM
Man we can't send you anywhere! haha
$230.00 for a 12k winch. How is that even possible. Pretty amazing, china or not.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 29, 2014, 07:54:44 AM
A 4L80 trans, in good shape...Wow!

I want to guess you could sell that for north of a grand

Then with the sale of the winch to Duane you have gotten the Burb for free and found the coin for a new turbo for the Cummins engine you already own.

Good for you! What a deal you made!

If you weren't building an EMP proof truck, that 4L80 would serve well behind that Cummins giving you 20+ MPG in a 1 ton people hauler.

Nice score on the winch too!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 29, 2014, 12:58:22 PM
Yup, been looking at the winches for some time, the sale and card just bumped up the purchase time. I will build a custom bumper for it and put synthetic line on it.

Actually I have a buyer for the motor/tranny, the guy I got the 14b from.

I like the idea of no electronics on this thing. The setup you have looks solid. I doubt I will do the build you have on the tranny, but I do want it gone through. Probably use that guy up north of here I found. All he does is these and said he can do anything to it. 205 will get looked at, but not much to upgrade there.

Fluid change is done (everything  ::) )This thing purrs like a kitten so its a driver as soon as I get it smoged. 

So I am going to finish the 1500 now so I can use the funds for this. With a nice paint job I should get 3-4k for it easy.

First thing will be the lift, tires and wheels. I can get stock looking wheels (16x8) for 110 from summit, then tires are 200+ each. I can get H1 wheels for $75 local and tires for 75-150 all military, but there are lots of aftermarket tires. Then I need spacers or new centers, but I like the idea of being able to change my own tires and patching is better from the inside if needed.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 29, 2014, 03:46:45 PM
Great plan Fred...Really!

That H1 wheel will sit way inside. Hate spacers...

Put that plasma to work, check out how I built the wheel jig...then buy some inexpensive centers and re-center them

Also, but some new O-rings for the wheels. I have two out of five leaking and I believe that is the source.

CM...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 05, 2015, 12:28:40 AM
Looking at a full tuneup to get it around better. Exhaust/intake and ignition upgrades. For about $200 I get another 25 or so HP and better mileage and driveabiltiy. It feels like a tank with that 350. Plus adding the lift, tires and 1 ton running gear will just add drag it down more.

Neighbor has a 90 blazer that is cherry that has been sitting for a few years and looking at some parts. Then I eyed lift springs and driveshafts behind the fence, all new!

It sure looks empty without the winch up front.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 07, 2015, 11:53:13 AM
Guys, thinking about pulling the trigger on these;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-GOODYEAR-WRANGLER-MT-OZ-37X12-5X16-5-MILITARY-H1-HUMMER-HUMVEE-TIRES-/111395984439?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Tires&hash=item19efb7d437

Just 600 SHIPPED with wheel option of my choice (thinkin 12 bolt but no run flat) I guess the pvc lock is an option from someone else but they will mount p without. These aren't radials and I have to do the hubs for the burb.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 07, 2015, 01:18:21 PM
Hey bro,

They are Radials. The 36" Goodyear's were bias ply, these are the good stuff.

I hear they do so-so to OK in the mud, wear like steel and work well on rocks and desert type stuff. I remember getting stuck quite a bit in HMMVs back in the day when those tires were all the rage before the newer Goodyear's.

I thing the 12 bolt wheel is optimum. Considering that you may cut apart the center, the 12 bolts will keep everything in harmony. 8 bolt are OK, they work, but don't have the look. The 24 bolt wheels are just plain overkill. A lot of extra weight with no benefit at our gross weights
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 07, 2015, 01:19:33 PM
BTW, putting that PVC liner in the tire is really difficult...get someone to do it for ya!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 07, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Just the feedback I am looking for Don, thx. So the MT OZ are radials? I thought that was the MTR?

There is a local guy who has em too, Trying to see if he can match the pricing and I get to see what I get.

I also used to bust tires and know a few tricks. Namely lube and good irons!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 08, 2015, 08:19:14 AM
Just the feedback I am looking for Don, thx. So the MT OZ are radials? I thought that was the MTR?

There is a local guy who has em too, Trying to see if he can match the pricing and I get to see what I get.

I also used to bust tires and know a few tricks. Namely lube and good irons!!
Yea, I just looked at mine. Goodyear Wrangler MT labeled "Military- OZ" and size is 37-12.50R 16.5
So they are radials

Here's the link to where I purchased mine at:

http://www.militaryoffroadtires.net/product-p/t-37125165.htm
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on January 08, 2015, 11:01:47 AM
Just the feedback I am looking for Don, thx. So the MT OZ are radials? I thought that was the MTR?

There is a local guy who has em too, Trying to see if he can match the pricing and I get to see what I get.

I also used to bust tires and know a few tricks. Namely lube and good irons!!

Knew I liked you for a reason. Former tire jockey myself w/ uncle Les. Murphy's and the picking bars for split rims work awesome, even on the side of the freeway. If Don had a duckbill at the time of his installation he probably would have taken out the Red dog though.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 08, 2015, 02:20:17 PM
Heck, Don could'a put a big ol screwdriver hanging off the bead of the tire and when red dog chewed on it it might have launched him!

That was hard work but good times. We built motors, did glider kits and all that goes with it. Most of the trucks were Detroit V72 a couple big Cats and V12s to. I hated split rings (3 piece) but the 22in weren't all that bad.

They even used to send me to the local bud brewery when a driver would twist a drive line off. We slid a welder in my truck (77 gmc) and I would weld a pipe into or onto the twisted piece to get them the 40 miles back to the shop. for a real repair.

Now the kicker is we had a yard truck there with a 555 cummins in it that had a broken throttle cable. These are the ones with 1/2 a cab and a hood that flipped up tot the side. To get it back to the shop one day (with another in tow via chain) the owners son drove the pig and we wired up the hood. I sat next to the engine with a vise grip on the throttle for the trip from Fairfield to Sonoma. So what you saw when going by was the yard pig with hood up towing another tractor with my head sticking up from the engine bay working the throttle. Oh, we even had a "blocker" that would drive along side when we were in traffic so the chain was sorta hidden and I was on the pass side anyway.

Younger days and good times!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 08, 2015, 02:22:53 PM
Just the feedback I am looking for Don, thx. So the MT OZ are radials? I thought that was the MTR?

There is a local guy who has em too, Trying to see if he can match the pricing and I get to see what I get.

I also used to bust tires and know a few tricks. Namely lube and good irons!!
Yea, I just looked at mine. Goodyear Wrangler MT labeled "Military- OZ" and size is 37-12.50R 16.5
So they are radials

Here's the link to where I purchased mine at:

http://www.militaryoffroadtires.net/product-p/t-37125165.htm

I found them during a search Don. Looks like most places have about the same so it comes to shipping and what you get for the $$$.

Hard to touch $600 for 4 tires and wheels shipped though. Did you get your bead locks from them?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 08, 2015, 03:39:10 PM
Just the feedback I am looking for Don, thx. So the MT OZ are radials? I thought that was the MTR?

There is a local guy who has em too, Trying to see if he can match the pricing and I get to see what I get.

I also used to bust tires and know a few tricks. Namely lube and good irons!!
Yea, I just looked at mine. Goodyear Wrangler MT labeled "Military- OZ" and size is 37-12.50R 16.5
So they are radials

Here's the link to where I purchased mine at:

http://www.militaryoffroadtires.net/product-p/t-37125165.htm

I found them during a search Don. Looks like most places have about the same so it comes to shipping and what you get for the $$$.

Hard to touch $600 for 4 tires and wheels shipped though. Did you get your bead locks from them?
No...

Got the wheel centers and bead locks (Double bead lock) from someone up north...Name escapes me, not GLO. Shawn didn't have what I was looking for and I believe he actually refered me to this other company. The name of that company, is back in my thread somewhere...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on January 08, 2015, 04:48:47 PM
In that case, it may be lost forever being hidden there
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 17, 2015, 03:18:21 PM
Been gettin lots of parts lately but little time to work. Cranking on the 1500.

On my lift here I think I will use a shackle reverser that uses standard shackles vs the male/female gm/dodge type. This will allow easy adjusting of ride hieght. Also even with the 37s I want ride height no more than 7ft since that seems to be around the average parking garage clearance.

What is on hand are new headlights, dash and steering wheel. I also aquired an overhead counsel with mount and back seats to replace the stock ones that were missing 1/2 the mounts and had half arsed seatbelts.

What I am having trouble with finding is a new front fender!! Everyone seems to be all bent up or lots of rust on the low end. I can get new fenders for 220 shipped for both right and left but not sure about quality. http://www.ebay.com/itm/331414077055?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Haven't got tires yet. I was bouncing around on using spacers as they cost as much as the centers. But running the spacers would allow seeing the tires on the truck and adjusting the BS for the look and clearance issues I may have. Plus I can resell when finished.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 17, 2015, 06:49:49 PM
Pics???
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 18, 2015, 01:37:55 PM
Pics???

Hmm, where have I heard that before?

Anyway I started with a brake inspection. Nothing fancy but if I am going to drive this thing I want to stop it. Plus it will haul my kids around too, the light was on and the pedal did not feel right. It was hard to tell when the last time these were off, the cobwebs and grime were a plenty!!

Popped off the left front and was expecting some pretty rusted up rotors and who knew what the pads looked like. It actually looked very good, shiny rotor and over 1/4 of pad still.

Then off came the left, well I took the bolts out anyway but that wheel did not move. Being a concentric wheel, it had rusted itself to the hub. After some choice words and a few malet hits and even a sledge, nothing. So I put all the lugs back on loose and drove it down the street doing some evasive manuvers. However, it did not budge!! So a little looser and another jaunt down the street (with a curb or 2 added) and tried it again, no way!!
OK, time to get serious here. Loosen the lugs a couple turns and go across the street to a Christian HS parking lot. I bounce it, find lots of curbs inside and out and don't hear a thing so I head home. Well viola, it had broken loose. It looked good to so I buttoned it back up after a little never seize on all the lugs.

Now onto the rear.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 18, 2015, 01:42:50 PM
When I was chasing parts I saw this on a few of the burbs that were there. Pretty common rust area and where I have a little too.  I need to attack this from the inside and out.

The last picture is from mine by the rear door.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 18, 2015, 03:16:58 PM
It really doesn't look all that bad

Definitely a keeper

And I think you will not have all that much trouble putting it back better than it was when new.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 18, 2015, 04:58:40 PM
Oh yeah, shes a keeper. Right about this time is when GM started building things that were really worth the name again. The 70-80s were not great years for much of their line.

So onto the rear brakes. The right was not bad, just a little seep from the cylinder but the shoe was fine. However the drum was so rusted I bet the shoe was just rolling over the surface. A quick hit with the disc sander and it was clean. Also the adjuster was frozen solid.

Then I tried to get the left drum off, and I tried and tried. Finally after a few good hits with 6lb sledge on both sides, she popped free. What a mess!! The cylinder was obviously leaking and the whole thing was a black muck. Couldn't tell if the adjuster was OK and the shoes were so-so.

I already had a a set of shoes and parts kit from the 1500 so a run down to ORielly's netted 2 adjusters and 2 cylinders for just over $30, not bad.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 22, 2015, 04:16:54 AM
Ok, finally got going on the rears. All the parts I had were wrong and were for a 6 lug vs a 8 lug. We had to look up parts for a truck to get the right parts!!

First thing is get help with the wheels. The air gun weilding son from the Samurai avatar was right there to help.

Been chasing a few parts too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 22, 2015, 04:24:54 AM
The rear seat in this thing was in fair shape, BUT it was twisted, had no lower release handles and the brackets were gone that held the seat flap when folded down. Plus the rear seatbelts were generic and the was no clip on the right side!!

Found a 89 at PnP and did pretty good. Got an overhead counsel with mounting bracket, the entire rear seat with all seatbelts, brackets and the right color!! I twisted one TORX right off trying to get these out. First pic are the stock seats.

Now I am starting to store the stuff in the back but look at that head liner!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 22, 2015, 04:32:53 AM
I had this GM steering wheel for a spar for my elky as I like the feel, but now it will have a new home.

All the lights work great, save one headlight and the other was dim. The burned out light actually has rust on the bottom inside. Got these conversions that will let me use a H4 bulb. Stock is just 55/60 which will have to be upgrade.

Also need to do the front seats they are warn. I believe the 88 up trucks will bolt right in??
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on January 22, 2015, 07:24:28 AM
these pics are kinda makin me miss my 87 blazer
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 22, 2015, 09:03:38 AM
these pics are kinda makin me miss my 87 blazer
I had a 79 Blazer over in Germany back in the day. Was a virtual tank compared to the local cars...I miss it too!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 22, 2015, 09:06:16 AM
I like how this is all going. Although much of this is temporary, it still is bringing that truck back.
I'm a big fan of rear drum brakes...not that I don't like discs, but a lot of folks don't realize, the drum brakes hold better than the disc brakes...But they also hold dust and mud and moisture and corrosion and salty road junk and who knows what else!

Project is moving right along!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on January 22, 2015, 11:30:01 AM
I prefer drum brakes as well, until they overheat or trap water, then it's no bueno trying to stop a lifted wagoneer on the hwy. looking good JR. nice to see another "real" vehicle coming back to life.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 22, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
Funny you should mention that about the bad part about drums. The left drum was hideous!!! It had a leaking cylinder and after I blew it off (lots of degreaser and a power washer) it still looked like this.

I spent another 1/2 with a wire brush after that then painted it with the anti rust ace paint.

Next I am doing the exhaust. Got a new Cat vs the big ol monolith in there now and a magnaflow. No headers even though I have a nice set of SS shortys and a cam sitting here. It has fair power for the 5.7. It will get a full tuneup still, high pressure pump and new injectors. All that should wake it up nicely since I see this config running until the lift and cleanup is done.

What I do need are front seats. I have heard the the 90's truck seats will bolt right in. Don't want power anything just solid seats! If you guys have ideas, let me hear!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 22, 2015, 08:24:51 PM
Oh, how did I miss this.  Soooo subbed.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on January 22, 2015, 09:12:41 PM
shame on you neck "subbed?"  naughty naughty!

don, I got my blazer when I was in Germany as well.  I got it for $600 and dropped about $2-3k into it just to get it to pass the german inspection, then I had it shipped back to the states.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 22, 2015, 10:09:08 PM
I used to go 4 wheeling over there in mine. My German Landlord got a kick out of that, crawling up the sides of hills in and around the Mein River valley, and running forest trails all over...

Mine was full time 4WD with the old NP203 case and a 4 bbl 350 that absolutely sucked the gas. I lifted it 4" and ran around on a set of 32" mud tires on wagon wheels. Pretty weird combo for Deutschland!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 23, 2015, 12:24:29 AM
Wagon Wheels, hadn't heard that in a long. Had those on my 77.

Called the local spring place who I have used before (valley spring works in Dixon). $300 a corner for custom springs, but will re-arch the rears for only $100 each and said they will be better than any with the way he heat-treats. Won't do the fronts as they need to much arch and he said it would be cheaper to go aftermarket.

So looks like 6 inch springs for the front and 2 inch re-arch for the rear with the shackle flip.

Built my own pressure bleeder for under $20. 1 gallon sprayer, clear hose, 1 fitting and a ebay 30lb psi gauge. Cut a piece of poly for the cover but it was to flimsy and need use alum at least.  Also need to figure out a clamp as using a c-clamp is a pain.

The brake light is out now but I think I have a bad left caliper, won't bleed, just dribbles. Right is fine but if I replace I will do both and under $20ea at the local store less pads.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 23, 2015, 02:05:16 AM
shame on you neck "subbed?"  naughty naughty!

don, I got my blazer when I was in Germany as well.  I got it for $600 and dropped about $2-3k into it just to get it to pass the german inspection, then I had it shipped back to the states.

In my best Larry The Cable Guy voice...

"Lord, I apologize"...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on January 23, 2015, 02:00:38 PM
just messin with yah neck.

cant wait till AUG so we can meet up again, hopefully longer this time, and get an improved version of this.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on January 23, 2015, 03:10:39 PM
JR, you could weld washers to the sides of the plate (or slot the sides for aluminum), use a small chain and a couple long j-hooks with sae threads (or weld the chain to some allthread), and wrap the chain around the master. I had a snap-on version of that style once upon a time.....very universal.


this is the closest pic I could find on the web
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 25, 2015, 12:40:40 AM
I actually just placed a couple pieces of scrap alum on it and it got me by. I will just make a 3/8 plate for it with a chain and j hook.

THX
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 25, 2015, 12:43:14 AM
OK, lets put a nice exhaust on this this to make it sound better and free up a few ponies.

Was doing this in between finishing this up for the scouts. It works great and race-day is tomorrow!!

When I got this is was bare wood but worked. I sanded it for several hours (using a electric plane and belt sander) just to get the side flat. My buddy who has a sign company did the graphics and a fold down start. I rebuilt the lights for the finish during this ad added memory foam to stop the cars!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 25, 2015, 12:53:34 AM
Oh yeah, the exhaust  ::)

First is cutting it off. Pretty easy with a good saws-all that has a rotating head. This one is made by Craftsman when they were the tools to buy.

Enough blades are a must, I went through 3. The bent blade was a my fault, but it was not a new blade to starrt with. I like the Maxcut blades I got at Costco. Just as good as the Lenox but WAY cheaper!!

4 cuts and we are done!!! They have seen better days.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 25, 2015, 01:02:03 AM
In the last picture you can see that clamp was rusted through, plus the tailpipe was bend forward and rested on the frame.

To use a stock clamp up front I had to make this side cut. worked great and just popped off. I was even able to use the stock 23 year old clamp!
 
Did my measurements, double checked and weld a 25 in piece between the cat and muffler. The muffler and cat are 3 in from Magnaflow.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 25, 2015, 01:08:51 AM
I was a little concerned about the sound since the muffler was a straight through design. I watched a couple of youtube videos and thought it would sound OK. If you look at the inside shot of the muffler you can see an open area. This acts like a natural baffle and it sounds great. No rapp like a cherry bomb, just a mellow tone.

I have been a big Flowmaster fan but they are getting very pricey but it would have fit a little better. I had to massage the top of the muffle with a hammer to clear a bolt.

You may also see a couple of tach welds on the end. I had to add a bushing as the tailpipe is just 2 7/8, so very little back-pressure if any.

I cleaned up the old tailpipe with a cordless grinder and blocked the tailpipe for clearance.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 25, 2015, 01:33:57 AM
I used all the stock hangers just welding them to the pipe. The bottom rear weld was a bare as I kept blowing through the 23 years old pipe. Finally got here sealed up though.

It doesn't hang to low and sounds good. Even my little helper liked it.

The last pic is for Don. I know he wants me to leave this on!!!!  :D
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 25, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
Well, ya need antennas... ;)
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on January 27, 2015, 11:00:35 AM
Starting to look like a real truck again. Nice work on the PD track too; those kids will remember that forever. I know I did.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 27, 2015, 01:56:21 PM
We did have fun with that, even flew my little drone around taking video.

Got to grab some wires right now. Putting the H4 lights in but building a relay system for full voltage!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 27, 2015, 11:46:53 PM
A little teaser for you guys showing the Motor I have for this. 1991, same as the truck with a matching 47R and NP205. Supposed to have around 150k on it, so just broke in well. I will do the head at minimum so I can check the cylinders along with the low end.

The tranny will get a basic rebuild but probably not as far as SD's. Same for the 205.

Looking for around 400hp with the VE without pushing it to hard. If I find a P setup that doesn't break the bank I will go that way for sure.

Right now it just waits in a trailer next to the house. There is a crossmember and mounts for the swap, but together they are in the 1K range.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 28, 2015, 12:10:40 AM
Now I am working on the lights and grill. It looks a little bare without the warn up there, but it got a good home  ;)

Popping off the grill I only found 1 bad screw that had pulled through the plastic. The grill was broken across the middle so a little JB Weld fixed that up.

The light mounts were is bad shape but about what you would expect after 23 years. They cleaned up nice in the HF blast cabinet.

The wires going to the headlights were small!! Maybe 18 gauge. So with the new lights I will do a relay setup for full voltage and higher wattage later as these are just 55/60 watts.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: ceelibs on January 28, 2015, 07:44:09 AM
What do you think about these wheels;
Might be able to use the hubcaps with these...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wvi-82-600805/reviews/
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 28, 2015, 11:33:32 AM
I had looked at those and the 16 inch size too. My current wheels are just 6.5 so I don't get a big footprint.

The actual plane though is to go with Humvee tires and wheels. I can get 5 RTR for under 1k delivered.

I can just bolt them up with spacers or recenter as Don did. I kinda like the idea of spacers to see what they will look like before I recenter. Lift has to be on first for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 28, 2015, 10:21:01 PM
While working on the lights look what came in the mail  ;D
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 29, 2015, 09:10:41 AM
That's a diesel cluster is it not?

Perfect for the swap!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 29, 2015, 11:24:10 AM
That's a diesel cluster is it not?

Perfect for the swap!

Nope, but it has the tach vs the HUGE fuel gauge.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 29, 2015, 08:59:46 PM
Anyway, went to the local PnP today and scored good! Was a $200 day with tax, cores and enviro fees (gotta love Kali  ::) )

Got a nice white fender,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Pair of Bucket seats in the right color. A tad dirty but are non powered.

2nd battery tray and as I pulled the fender, I saw that the truck had billit spacers!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 29, 2015, 09:20:35 PM
Last night I bead blasted the headlight mounts and the air cleaner lid. HF blaster worked fine but it really pushed the old Craftsman comp. I really need to upgrade it and get a nice floor drill press.

Getting the lights ready they almost fit the old mounts. However changing the bulbs would be an impossibility. So I used a HF electric cutoff tool (great for quick jobs at $20) and cut the ears off, then ground the edges. The housings fit fine now so they got a couple coats of primmer/semi black. 

I have gathered all the relay items too. Should be fairly simple using the high/low right off the back of the stock headlight plugs to run it.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on January 29, 2015, 09:41:05 PM
Nice score on a not-real-common cluster!

..and the other stuff as well!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on January 30, 2015, 06:37:17 AM
Nice progress JR & nice parts from PNP!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 30, 2015, 09:03:39 AM
Wheel spacers = stock HMMV wheels
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 30, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Wheel spacers = stock HMMV wheels

Hey for $16 I couldn't go wrong plus I can mount them right up to see the spacing.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 30, 2015, 02:35:49 PM
So, whats in your fender??????????

Ever wonder with all that crap you clean off or kick up and where it goes? Well when putting the new/used fender on this came out of the splash guard behind the left front. Now this is what gets in from the top,,,,,,,,,,,,,so check yours.

It is some darn good soil though !!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: BobbyB on January 30, 2015, 02:38:18 PM
this came out of the splash guard

XJ doesn't have any of those.... yet
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 30, 2015, 11:43:16 PM
When I got the fender off I found all this. So now the vent cover below the windshield is coming off as well as the other fender. Also cleaning and spraying the wheel wells with rustolium undercoating.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 30, 2015, 11:51:14 PM
The way this is going it looks more like another "lube change" that started something else  ::)

You know how those go!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on January 31, 2015, 06:44:01 AM
You could plant some seeds, leave it, and register it as a "green" vehicle- it would grow leaves as you drive economically! ;D
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 31, 2015, 08:52:22 AM
When I got the fender off I found all this. So now the vent cover below the windshield is coming off as well as the other fender. Also cleaning and spraying the wheel wells with rustolium undercoating.
Someone needs to do an environmental impact study on the effect of moving that much dirt away from the forest!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on January 31, 2015, 08:53:06 AM
The way this is going it looks more like another "lube change" that started something else  ::)

You know how those go!!
Yup...They just go and go and go...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on January 31, 2015, 02:14:37 PM
Besides watching Dons builds I have found several threads with conversions as I am sure a few of you have too. Not to take away from BD building, this has got to be the best with all the fabing this guy does.

It is a 6BT with twin turbos into a 72 chevy truck.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?40257-1972-K20-6bt&highlight=ve+power
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 04, 2015, 03:44:55 AM
Well, sold the warn bumper so now it is kinda bare.

Looking to keep the Dadge Dana 60 now as it is just 1/2 inch wider at the leave spring mounts. That can be addressed easy with shimming, shackles, or offset centers.

Also the wheel mount is 2 inches narrower than the chevy so it matches the rear better!!

"WANTED" 2 dodge or GM front hubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant see paying over $150 for these each!!!!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 08, 2015, 11:38:40 PM
Wheels and tires on the way. In the process of swap info I found this and it reminded me of SD.

Looked a little further and you guys will love the thread. Looks more like a plane in many places,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?20761-Warwagon-MKV
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 09, 2015, 12:19:00 AM
Looks like the dodge D60 is a go now. Besides being the same width as the 14b rear the spring pads are just 1/2in wider than the GM D60. That is doable.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2015, 02:25:27 PM
Still in my search for hubs that aren't breaking the bank I found a 1994 6BT that is stock for $1500. Miles are a little high at 300k but I get a P pump motor from it. Even had a video of it running and showed over 40psi oil pressure at idle.

This will now go into the sub but I will freshen it up some. I figure a new head too since they are around $500, new injectors, bearings and maybe a hone with rings.

Plus I am upgrading my homebuilt engine stand to turn this beast using a worm drive setup I have seen in a couple forums. I will post that up too.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 11, 2015, 02:53:41 PM
You're luck that California doesn't limit vehicles like they do guns! Lol- ;)
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 11, 2015, 08:30:40 PM
Still in my search for hubs that aren't breaking the bank I found a 1994 6BT that is stock for $1500. Miles are a little high at 300k but I get a P pump motor from it. Even had a video of it running and showed over 40psi oil pressure at idle.

This will now go into the sub but I will freshen it up some. I figure a new head too since they are around $500, new injectors, bearings and maybe a hone with rings.

Plus I am upgrading my homebuilt engine stand to turn this beast using a worm drive setup I have seen in a couple forums. I will post that up too.
I'll bet the stock bore will be in good enough shape to go back stock with the rings.

I was thinking, if I had it down that far, and the bores were in pristine condition, why not install some marine pistons. Slightly lower compression with a larger bowl means more compressor action can be accommodated for mo-power. I have the marine slugs in Square D.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on February 12, 2015, 09:04:48 AM
That Warwagon build on 4btswaps.com is one of my favorites.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 12, 2015, 08:24:06 PM
So, I found this P Pump 6BT but had a little adventure getting it;

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=730.0
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 12, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
It needs a good cleaning, injector lines and injectors. Has a turbo on it with a waste-gate and another without so that sorta offsets the lines. I was going get better injectors anyway. Has the trans adapter, starter and linkage too.

Hers a few pics of it, but first thing tomorrow I have rebuilt trans to go into the Elky (400k+ miles)
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 13, 2015, 09:29:55 AM
Good score

A lot more tenability, but I hear a bit harder to start than the reliable VE pump motor.

I see it came off an automatic truck, I can't recall if you are going stick or auto??

If stick, I wonder if you could just retask that fluid/fluid cooler to cool the engine oil??

Sorry about the run of bad luck, but you're a fighter, you'll recover!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 13, 2015, 02:18:32 PM
I have the same tranny and tcase as you done. I doubt my motor or tranny will get full treatment as yours. Both will be gone over some though.

A big yellow (just as good as brown sometimes) just showed up with home delivery!!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 16, 2015, 11:32:05 PM
Here is a better pic of those now stowed out back. Look to be 80-90%  8)

Also a pic of the enters I am thinking of, but in 8x6.5. They are punched .250 and still need the miller to hold them on.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on February 19, 2015, 11:21:33 AM
Who makes those centers?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 19, 2015, 12:06:49 PM
Who makes those centers?

I found them during a web search, called trail worthy fab;

http://www.trailworthyfab.com/Hummer-Wheel-Centers/

Although a little thinner (.250") then what Don has, I like the style and they lock similar to a factory wheel.

On his site they are $65, on Ebay $60 OBO.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 19, 2015, 12:28:23 PM
Also guys, started a topic over in Suspension looking for a steering arm for the crossover that will works with the 4x4 box.

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=755.new#new
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 23, 2015, 01:41:53 AM
Working on the elky trans right now. Found a small valve body issue as I was about to put the new one in. (83 vs 87) Got it figured out, just swapping the valve bodies since mine is a V8 with a shift kit.

Getting it into the garage was fun but an old HF 2500lb lift helped me out.

Son was having a blast with his tank while I did this.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 23, 2015, 02:06:27 AM
I have a 1 inch hole drilled in the floor and the winch is mounted on a 1/4 plate. Got a rod welded to the plate and it slides in when needed.

When I first pulled it up the cummins was still in back. Got it unloaded then pulled the car up onto 4 inch blocks for the tranny swap with jack stand in the front. The 6BT is sitting here for now. I will build a new tray for it tomorrow so I can move it around better and store the picker again. Then I am going to mod my stand I made 25 years ago to handle a tad more weight and make it so I can spin the motor easier.

Then I picked up a new motorcycle jack from HF to help get it in. Nice thing is with the adapters, it holds a tranny very nice so us old guys don't have to bend over as much.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 23, 2015, 02:12:35 AM
Then I did a search and found a pair of internal front hubs for my Dana 60. The add on Ebay said for external hubs, but thats not what the picture showed, plus it had casting numbers on it. Did a little search and found they were for a D60 internal hub front axle.

Offered $100 each (by it now was 125) and got a yes in 10 minutes with free shipping!  8)  New these things are going for $250 plus and used are in the $150+ range.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on February 23, 2015, 11:51:36 AM
I have a 1 inch hole drilled in the floor and the winch is mounted on a 1/4 plate. Got a rod welded to the plate and it slides in when needed.


Great idea.  I may use that one.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 24, 2015, 02:50:19 PM
Little more searching today and picked up a set of injector lines and hold downs. Now I need the return line.

Also need front locking hubs and probably go with 35 spline axles. Also need a 2 wheel drive steering box for the crossover steering.

Going to stick with the stock 5.9 type mounts. So many ways to make the mounts and cross member for this.

Now I start thinking of how to make the power I want (400 or so) and go from there as I go through it.

Don, who did you use?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2015, 08:28:38 PM
Little more searching today and picked up a set of injector lines and hold downs. Now I need the return line.

Also need front locking hubs and probably go with 35 spline axles. Also need a 2 wheel drive steering box for the crossover steering.

Going to stick with the stock 5.9 type mounts. So many ways to make the mounts and cross member for this.

Now I start thinking of how to make the power I want (400 or so) and go from there as I go through it.

Don, who did you use?

Gillette Diesel is the go to turbo and injector guy I like.
400Hp, er, maybe, 350 not a problem. Marine injectors, 12cm exhaust, 60mm compressor or just score a HX35 from a 2nd gen. Bump timing 1/8", fuel pin, turn star wheel up, 3200 or better gov spring, good lift pump and a 4" exhaust is 350 HP and 700 ish torque. Plenty to motivate that white contraption to the point your bros will cease being your friends!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: BobbyB on February 25, 2015, 01:53:34 AM
to the point your bros will cease being your friends!

Then they aren't real friends.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 03, 2015, 04:14:52 AM
Well, made a little trip as I stated down south and got a M1101 trailer, but mines Camo. For $800 and I got a spare tire.

Got the elky tranny in just before I left and a few parts came in also. Found all my lines and a set of internal hubs for the 60.

For the hubs I am going to use the electrolysis rust tank.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on March 03, 2015, 06:59:33 AM
Be sure to post up a picture of your electrolytic process…

Those hubs look like they have been degreased pretty well, thats good.  It helps keep the solution alkaline.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 04, 2015, 04:10:03 AM
Something just occurred to me and maybe you guys can help me out or even have them laying around to check.

So, I need spacers ( 85+ 14bt with 67in wms) to run the stock H1 wheels or I have to recenter the wheels because of 7in backspace.

If I went to dually hubs front and back wouldn't that allow me to run the H1 wheels as they are? Plus I don't need to get or weld centers to my wheels.

From what I am seeing the DRW is 72in wms to wms, so I would get what would be like adding a 2.5 spacer.

Not sure if the front is the same but that is why I'm asking.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on March 04, 2015, 07:08:47 AM
Wouldn't that solution have implications for your brakes too?  ???
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 04, 2015, 09:35:52 PM
I was thinking you could use dually hubs as well, but if you ever needed a spare, then you will have to find an Armee wheel or a dually wheel.

Ifens you use a spacer then you could pull that off and bolt on any appropriate 8 lug wheel you come across. But recentering the wheels solves everything and it's a cool project.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 04, 2015, 09:56:15 PM
Kinda looking at it all, sorta a tossup. The "option" of grabbing almost any 8 lug and run it has an appeal, just as not recentering does.

With a little more research the front dually setup will be to wide. However the rear will work just fine. For the front I can just run the spacers I have and I could remove those if needed because turning would be an issue. For the rear, sticking out some until repaired would not be a big deal. Plus the tracts seem to be getting wider all the time.

So right now to run it I need rear drw hubs, axles are the same. To recenter, that would only apply to the truck, not the trailer or spare for it as the tract is not really adjustable anyway easy.

I am still leaning to running the H1s as is and do the dually rear hubs. for the rear discs, thats another thing I need to look at too.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on March 04, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
Ok so let me jump in here. A Dana 60 front dually hub would allow you to run stock H1 wheels with no spacer, that's a common set up. You can bolt any 8 lug wheel onto a dually hub physically.

The problem arises in the rear axle area. You will find the 67" axle way too narrow obviously. Some will score a van 14 Bolt, run a 2" spacer and call it close enough to the front axle width they then just run it.

Another option would be some Dana 70HD dually axles are similar width to the front Dually 60. Also the P30 Chevy step van 14 bolts in some years are quite wide as well.

I'd just recenter them...it's more economical by far.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 05, 2015, 01:11:15 AM
Ok, but the 14bt I have now is 67. If I add the drw hubs I get a 72in wms to wms, right?

But if I have spacers and have to run a standard H1 wheel I can, leaving the front and rear as is at 67in (+ the spacers) for a 72in wms. if I recenter the wheels.

Maybe I am making this harder than it needs be, thats why I am asking.

I am just a little concerned about running spacers all the time. They are alum, but so are many wheels. However they are billet vs cast for the wheels. 2 more spacers will run me $70. 5 centers run about $250, plus the work to mount em, maybe machine to true em up too.

Have you re-centered any Norm?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on March 06, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 06, 2015, 09:37:12 AM
JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.


JR, need to borrow your thread a moment

Norm,
On the subject of balancing the H1 recentered wheels, how did you do it?
Do you recall how I am attempting to do it?
I added about two tablespoons of BB's and several tablespoons of the air-soft plastic beads
I added all that outside of the dual beadlock
I do not want out of balance wheels
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 06, 2015, 11:14:03 AM
Great questions you DOT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am looking for more like a 4.5 bs and saw they are using 8-10oz of airsoft.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bob Smith on March 06, 2015, 12:23:19 PM
JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.


JR, need to borrow your thread a moment

Norm,
On the subject of balancing the H1 recentered wheels, how did you do it?
Do you recall how I am attempting to do it?
I added about two tablespoons of BB's and several tablespoons of the air-soft plastic beads
I added all that outside of the dual beadlock
I do not want out of balance wheels

Now this sounds like a great reason for a new thread in the tires and wheels section, not just a DOT post
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 06, 2015, 04:43:20 PM
Bob's on to something here
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 06, 2015, 06:17:13 PM
Norm, you have this one for now.

I am going to set something up to hold and turn as I weld (something for something else but will cross over)

Enlighten us please!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 11, 2015, 05:11:03 AM
Well, finally got around to making my electrolytic rust remover.

The only real issue I had is my 2 smart chargers WONT work! They like to see voltage and adjust as they go. I tried and tried and finally dug out a 6v DC car charger and I had bubbles!! Just 800ma so it may take a little longer so a PC power supply might be next.

First was four 8 inch pieces of rebar. They were held in with #14 copper wire from the outside.
 
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 11, 2015, 05:14:58 AM
I checked the bucket to be sure the hubs would fit first. First I knocked the races out.

Mixed the soda water and hung them in.

Bubbling good so we will see.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 11, 2015, 05:27:29 AM
Here is is about an hour later. Looking good for just 6v@800ma.

Put a better hanger on it too to make sure it was grounded good, but the regular chargers would not touch it!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on March 11, 2015, 07:36:40 AM
That is one thing that I found out too.
That the smart chargers are too dang smart.
There have been a couple times I've had to dig out an old one to get a 'bit' of charge on a battery for the smart charger to take over.
Good to see you have it sorted, and can't wait to see how the hubs turn out.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 11, 2015, 08:14:25 AM
This is cool stuff

Did you know about it before Duane wrote it up?

I was curious if you/others were picking up ideas/tips from all the information floating around here??
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 11, 2015, 01:07:17 PM
I got the idea here. Thanks Duane  ;D

Did a few searches and here we are!

I have had to boost a few batteries to before they would charge. I normally just grab a little charger like you see, have boxes of em and if you burn it up, who cares!

I also have some really smart chargers for my model planes. They do lithiums, Metal Hydride and lead acid. They show charge rate, amp in and time with a nice digital readout. They are limited to around 5 amps though but will charge 48v DC.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 11, 2015, 01:18:30 PM
Well after sitting in the bath for 8 hours i saw a nice layer of rust on the surface. Not bad for 800ma.

Pulled it out and it looks good. Still a couple rust spots but mostly black where the rust was and expected.

I will let it sit for another 12 hours and check out HF for a dumb charger.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 11, 2015, 01:19:45 PM
Lookin' good!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on March 11, 2015, 01:30:57 PM
Looks real good.

I see a lack of 'mandals' tho!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 11, 2015, 01:39:07 PM
Looks real good.

I see a lack of 'mandals' tho!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 02:50:28 AM
Well, the jury is still out on the rust cleaner. After 24 hours it is better, but not what I expected and it doesn't brush clean yet. Will try more power and report back.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 02:56:10 AM
So tearing into the burb now I got the front headliner down and some of the trim out. Kinda getting ahead of myself here as I need to get the 1500 going and out before this becomes the full time "fluid change"

Wasn't as bad as I thought
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 03:23:41 AM
Then I started to pull the motor apart some. Before I drop it onto my new cart; http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=841.new#new I am going to power wash it.

Then I am going to mod my engine stand for the ctd.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on March 13, 2015, 08:15:42 AM
Well, the jury is still out on the rust cleaner. After 24 hours it is better, but not what I expected and it doesn't brush clean yet. Will try more power and report back.

24 hours should be more than enough, you may not have enough power.  Any grease or oil on the parts will degrade the solution; you want it to be on the alkaline side.  I don't know if you saw any of the warnings, but make sure you do this in a well ventilated area, hydrogen gas is released during the process, you don't want that stuff to build up...

At least while you are cooking off the rust, you can work on other parts of the build.   
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 13, 2015, 09:44:22 AM
You need to hook up with norm (oldkoot) for P-pump parts and ideas
He apparently has a storehouse!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 10:30:01 AM
Norm and I talked about everything. In fact it got carry away like most things here.

I am going to powerwash the motor. Looks like a couple drains were weeping and there is you know what all over the lower block.

As soon as I mount it on the cart I am going to pull the head to see where I am at. This is supposed to be a high mile motor but ran good. I am hoping for just a hone, rings and bearings.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 13, 2015, 11:03:52 AM
Carried away???

I don't understand...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 11:22:47 AM
Lots of phone time about everything. This stuff was just a primer.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on March 13, 2015, 12:24:48 PM
LoL..... talking about carried away. I just spent this morning hauling Cummins well plants out to the pivots and setting them up. This nice weather has me farming instead of wrenching which is very annoying.

JR.... it is a Cummins my friend. Reseal anything the holds oil inside it so it leaks a bit less, and run it. And use Cummins/Case_IH gaskets for at the very minimal the exhaust manifold, rear main seal, and tappet cover. I actually prefer Fel Pros valve cover gaskets.

If your bored/OCD and have to remove the head and look at the cross hatch pattern then my advice is do NOT try and reinstall it without resurfacing the head. Also, you may as well have the valves done, and all that fun stuff. Porting is almost free........
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 12:37:27 PM
Yes, most of that was in the plans. From what I am seeing a new head is almost cheaper than rebuilt. I am going to stud it to.

I was trying to get a camera down the injector hole but it is just a tad to big. What do you think about 5x12 injectors? Found a used set I am looking at.

Got a new oil fill valve cover to dump that thing hanging out the front cover.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on March 13, 2015, 04:12:23 PM
I think those injectors will be fine if your planning to upgrade air flow a bit... I'd research who built them and such, as not all are created equal. Those sticks, a small increase in timing, and a larger compressor will make good drivable power.

Keep in mind an auto tranny that will be happy behind a warmed up 6bt in a heavy 4x4 isn't inexpensive...your budget and goals will have to dictate your "tune"

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 13, 2015, 04:57:56 PM
Tranny is on the books too. Guy nearby does them, nothing but 518/47/48 and said he can do anything I want.

THX!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: husker77c on March 14, 2015, 07:45:45 PM
JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.


JR, need to borrow your thread a moment

Norm,
On the subject of balancing the H1 recentered wheels, how did you do it?
Do you recall how I am attempting to do it?
I added about two tablespoons of BB's and several tablespoons of the air-soft plastic beads
I added all that outside of the dual beadlock
I do not want out of balance wheels

Now this sounds like a great reason for a new thread in the tires and wheels section, not just a DOT post


Yes yes yes.  I am wanting to use hummer wheels and tires on the ford and cheapest I've found is trail worthy fab for ~$375 ea. The website referenced earlier in this thread it looks like you could build one for around $100 if you could do your own welding. 
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 14, 2015, 09:39:02 PM
So those pressed centers give me 3.5 BS, 4.5 is more is the target. Will have to contact them on this.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 16, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
OK guys, I need a little help here choosing my motor for this swap. This is my first 5.9 motor swap. Not my first swap or diesel motor though!

I got all excited about getting the Ppump motor from a 94 thinking of the power it can make. This motor has about 325K miles on it (saw the odometer pic) and I am into it for about $1750 with other parts I have picked up. It looks solid vs the leaks and has all adapters for an auto, which I have.

The VE motor has about 150K I was told and came from a running truck that had rusted/fallen apart. I have all the parts for this too for the auto.

The tranny I have is the 518/47r with OD and aNP205 tcase. Drivetrain is a dana 60 front, gm 14bt FF rear with 4:10s in each. Tires are 37's as listed before. This combo says I will see about 1800 rpm at 70 mph. It will get a rebuild and have a non lockup converter.

Now for what I want from the motor;

I am thinking around 350hp, possibly a little more without going crazy. From what I am reading this is easy with both engines, but near the top for the VE pump

I am also looking at driveability, reliability, easy staring and solid mileage. I will drive it alot, but it will not be my only ride by any means. It has a 40 gal tank.

A big issue will be reliability and that I can work on it. The engine themselves are more or less the same vs the pistons if I read right. off the shelf parts will be a biggy for all parts!

The pumps I think is where the diff come in here. The VE pump is a rotary fuel and can be repaired/rebuilt and upgraded on the bench without fancy tools. Is this correct?

I know the Ppump can be worked on but after a few basic things, it need special tools for calibrations and just to rebuild. This pump is like a little motor vs a rotary pump.
 

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on March 16, 2015, 05:33:08 PM
Ok, but the 14bt I have now is 67. If I add the drw hubs I get a 72in wms to wms, right?

But if I have spacers and have to run a standard H1 wheel I can, leaving the front and rear as is at 67in (+ the spacers) for a 72in wms. if I recenter the wheels.

Maybe I am making this harder than it needs be, thats why I am asking.

I am just a little concerned about running spacers all the time. They are alum, but so are many wheels. However they are billet vs cast for the wheels. 2 more spacers will run me $70. 5 centers run about $250, plus the work to mount em, maybe machine to true em up too.

Have you re-centered any Norm?

I'm concerned. 14T 10.5" with the removable pinion support started it's long sordid history with GM in 1972. '67 would have been an HO72 with a 3rd member style dropout like a 9" ford that removes from the front half of the housing. In the words of "Fat Bastard" spacers are "crap" and are sketchy at best reliability wise. Didn't you spend some time with Uncle Les in your youth learning about the pitfalls of wheel spacers?

Really just curious about the '67 14bt comment. and with the qty of comments already posted since that one, it may have already been addressed and maybe I'm just a little crazy.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 16, 2015, 05:43:21 PM
It is 67 inch and I am not thrilled about spacers either. I have them but more for seeing what the offset will look like before the final burn.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on March 17, 2015, 07:28:54 AM
Honestly you could debate P pump vs VE all morning. I think you will enjoy either one. The VE will have a small edge in economy...the P pump will have a edge on making HP. Run whichever one you want...the P pump does have the advantage of far more used parts floating around. And it's a bit less selective in turbo requirements. So toss a coin?  LoL 

As for the Hummer wheel centers. With pressed centers your stuck at 3.5" BS. With flat steel centers you can run at 4" or more BS. The flat centers are not as strong, but that's not going to be an issue with your smaller 37" tire size and intended usage. They are however harder to center at home...but doable.





Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 17, 2015, 08:10:19 AM
"Smaller 37" tire size" ^^^^^^

Norm, you must run some big tires bro!

Never mind I remember the pics, YOU DO!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 17, 2015, 11:01:36 AM
Glade you let me know about the backspacing. I know I want to run about 4.5 as I want it be more or less flush with the side of the truck. An inch out is about as far as I would go. I did a little more research after you posted that and discovered the same.

Parts availability is something I need to consider down the road. We are already looking at 20-25 year old motors. I was more thinking along the lines of if I had to RR the pump, could I do it? That was a reason I looked hard at the VE. I don't plan on really cranking this thing up a lot. Just enough to get it going good. Injectors, Turbo and small pump mods.

From your other post Norm, you said almost all the pump ctd were ppumps. So if finding a doner pump was needed finding one in a field as well as a truck is an option.

Buy the way, got the cart all finished and got the p motor set down on it. Nice and solid!



Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 18, 2015, 01:23:58 PM
Looks like I found my mounts; http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?60706-73-87-Chevy-6bt-Conversion-parts

These are made buy Rube Barnett out of Az and are the same he used on the Dodge Powerwagon.

Looks like they are just $300, which are a bargan and its a weld up kit. Allows pan removal and stock fan usage.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 18, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Looks like I found my mounts; http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?60706-73-87-Chevy-6bt-Conversion-parts

These are made buy Rube Barnett out of Az and are the same he used on the Dodge Powerwagon.

Looks like they are just $300, which are a bargan and its a weld up kit. Allows pan removal and stock fan usage.


That looks flippin great!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on March 18, 2015, 08:32:37 PM
That is a bargain....and you get to keep your hair.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 19, 2015, 01:30:59 AM
Not so sure about the hair, but I like them. Wish they were based around the square mounts since those key in and hold the weight vs finding the bolt hole and it holds the weight.

He also has a fairly nice front bumper that is priced good to and in kit form.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 19, 2015, 08:00:41 AM
Not so sure about the hair, but I like them. Wish they were based around the square mounts since those key in and hold the weight vs finding the bolt hole and it holds the weight.

He also has a fairly nice front bumper that is priced good to and in kit form.


Hey JR, how about a link to this guy, Barnet.
I'd like to look at his modular bumper as a possible candidate for Square D
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 19, 2015, 11:21:41 AM
He only has a facebook page and I have found him on several sites. Number is listed.

It is Rob Bonney (seen rube, bonnet,,,,,,,,,)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rob-Bonney-Fabrication/193559750764429
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 19, 2015, 06:19:21 PM
Got the front 60 apart a little last night. As dirty as it is the brake fluid and internals looked great!

Need to make that diff choice now, but leaning towards the trutrac and will go 35 spline on it too. Basically a rebuild, but I will keep the gears.

It will get new bearings so I should be able to keep the pinion shim pack and simply adjust backlash.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on March 21, 2015, 09:16:27 PM
He used that same removable cross-member setup on a 6bt Blazer he built over on 4btswaps.com.  That's exactly what you need for the Suburban.  Awesome fab work.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 24, 2015, 07:47:16 PM
He used that same removable cross-member setup on a 6bt Blazer he built over on 4btswaps.com.  That's exactly what you need for the Suburban.  Awesome fab work.

Yep, need to order this.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 24, 2015, 07:52:43 PM
So looking at that roof dent it is a little worse than I thought. It even bent the cross-member (if you can call it that) It is on the roof that goodness so even a non Don job won't show bad if at all.

Nice factory wiring and insulation too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 24, 2015, 07:58:25 PM
Then I got outside and started to clean off the vent area. I had blown it off already but that didn't do as much.

Got the cowling off and vacuumed but there was still more.

So off came the windshield wiper access/filter.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: wilsonphil on March 24, 2015, 08:18:21 PM
So looking at that roof dent it is a little worse than I thought. It even bent the cross-member (if you can call it that) It is on the roof that goodness so even a non Don job won't show bad if at all.

Nice factory wiring and insulation too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Use that area to cut the hole for the FLIR camera, problem solved. :)
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 24, 2015, 08:59:23 PM
Naw, don't listen to Phil

The vehicle is obviously too dirty and too dented to bother with any longer.

I'd get rid of it

I could take it off your hands...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 24, 2015, 09:46:30 PM
There are enough subs around for both of you guys, relax.

Think I had a little nesting going on. 1 big wad was in the center with an assortment of shells.

Still need to hit it with some cleaner and a brush but you can see the bottom!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 24, 2015, 09:53:02 PM
Couple days ago the Tuff Country 6 inch springs showed up. These were made for a 1/2 to 3/4 ton, but not a CTD. They will get an add-a-leaf under the top leaf and be a military wrap. Tate seemed to like the idea since it will keep the lift with the CTD while being cost effective.

Also ordered parts for the D60 front end today from Randys with Tate's help. Got the Eaton Trutrac HD for the front, Yukon extreme locking hubs and 35 spline outer axles with a kingpin rebuild kit.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2015, 02:11:29 AM
During this I also found I had a nagging little drip from the transmission gasket. Tried to tighten it up bu no go so I decided to reinstall the original steel/rubber gasket. Basically it was metal with a rubber coating forming a nice O ring on both sides.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2015, 02:15:09 AM
So, being the guy I am I say, lets make it better and add a drain to this thing. Sure the tranny is going to come out with the motor swap, but why not!

Now the 4L80 has a nice little spot MADE for a drain but good ol GM does not use it. So with a punch, we now have a drain hole. Only bad part is the drain is right over the exhaust, oh well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2015, 02:17:17 AM
Pan off, oil drained and here is the new plug (8mm flange bolt) with a copper washer and a nut to back it.

I flattened it out and used a unibit to open the hole up.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2015, 02:19:25 AM
Used a 2nd bolt to hold it snug and brazed it on.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2015, 02:23:07 AM
Test fit and bolted it back on after a good cleaning and there we go! Just like the factory should have and took about 10 minutes while the pan was off.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2015, 07:54:31 AM
Ya know...That 4l80E will fit and work behind that Cummins...Particularly if you go with the VE motor.
That would be interesting I think
Isn't the 4l80 stronger than the 47RH Chrysler trans?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on March 25, 2015, 09:53:43 AM
How would the electronics work?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2015, 10:25:17 AM
Electronics and a $800 adapter AND another adapter for the transfer case. It did run through my mind though, fast,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I thought of going manual with a 5600 also, but adapters and modifying for a clutch is a pain.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on March 25, 2015, 01:38:34 PM
really nice metalwork on the plug there JR. as much as I love the GM trans, I have to agree with JR on matching the CHY trans to the Cummins. easier to find replacement parts from one abandoned truck in an EOTW scenario than to try to find the headquarters that used to manufacture the adaptors and wiring.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on March 26, 2015, 01:53:08 PM
Nice work.  Are you going to put a roof rack up on top?  Might hide any residual roof imperfections after you straighten it out…
 
I forgot, and don't want to search... Are you using a dodge D60 up front?

Never mind, I see that you are using the Dodge D60.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 12:53:14 AM
Well the truck is going to be dark with little shine so most imperfections will not show. Plus it is going to be around 7ft tall, hard to see up there!

A bolt on may be an option, but I want to keep the 7ft height for parking issues.

Yes, Dana 60 up front. In fact just got a couple boxes of goodies from Randys. Will post these up later when the rest shows up.


Now onto louvers like what Don used. I have seen these custom but like the bolt on look on these. I contacted the same company, Rodslouvers.com, and asked if they can add a louver to the angled 2 row and he sent me the picture below and said he will make them right up!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 01:03:15 AM
Ran down to a place called Raycor tools in Modesto yesterday which is like a HF, but REAL hardcore items, much of it American made like the Champion compressor sitting in my truck I have to unload.

Between that, Randy's and taxes I have blown my Wadd for the next month. At least I broke down and saw my old tax guy and he got out for 5K total, not the 15k I was looking at.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2015, 08:02:27 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on March 27, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
You have to love progress. My tax person and I spoke, it wasn't pleasant. The good news is I may be able to swing that missing snap-on 9/16 box end I need to buy.

I plan to trap as much heat under the hood of my build as possible. That way I may have heat in the winter. Dang Cummins....
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 02:07:43 PM
Not in the tool section, but I need a bigger/better compressor and I wanted to go local so I got this. No not a pallet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Hooked it up after lifting the front with ramps and airing down the rears. Much easier to pull out flat vs up.

My little HF did a great job!!

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 02:10:38 PM
That lift is a 2 ton and has done about everything form tree trunks so the 2 floor lifts I slid into the other garage after stacking and setting on car dollys.

Lifting the 700lb Compressor was childs play.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 02:13:23 PM
I then spun her around (why are they always women??) and set her down.

Lifted it from the top and tied it off to my dmax so it could not fall.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 02:29:41 PM
All set up nice and safe (until I move outside) ready to be refilled with oil (drained for laying down) and a more break in after wiring.

Got it for just over 2K and it should easily out perform my 20 year old 5hp Craftsman with an Alum pump.

This is 5hp too, but the motor is about double the size, magnetic starter, starting unloader and rated at 175psi and 17cfm@175psi and just spins at 720 rpm.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on March 27, 2015, 02:48:53 PM
nice
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
Very Nice!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
I have copied and pasted this to the tool thread too. But it was a pain!! Not the copying but when I triad to split, it would take me back to the 91 1500 build??
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2015, 07:39:47 PM
Louvers are ordered, 2 sets just because. Owner is great he made what I asked for the next day!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 28, 2015, 04:31:47 AM
Now, onto a few more parts since they all showed up.

So form Randys Ring and Pinion I got 3 boxes. (I think one box was just decals!)

35 spline Yukon outer axles and Yukon Hardcore Locking hubs to match. The Hubs are supposed to be about 1/2 in shallower than other hubs and are built like a tank. Main housing looks all machined from Stainless and the knob looks to be a nice steel casting with just the back cup area and grip area letting you know it is cast as the rest is machined.

I also got bearings and shims for the new carrier along with HD ujoints for the axles.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 28, 2015, 04:37:27 AM
Kingpin kits for both sides and the Eaton Trutrac, which feels like a solid mass.   

Then a new yoke for a 1350 universal.                                       
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 28, 2015, 09:42:56 AM
New parts are so purdy!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 28, 2015, 11:52:27 AM
You have me thinking about the locker now. You say you like it, price is good, traction would be great and there is even a rebate right now!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on March 30, 2015, 03:40:08 PM
You have me thinking about the locker now. You say you like it, price is good, traction would be great and there is even a rebate right now!
The Grizzly Locker in C-MAX is great. Nice manners on the street and great traction off road. I paid close attention to its performance last Friday while at the farm. I think you'll like it.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 30, 2015, 08:06:31 PM
You have me thinking about the locker now. You say you like it, price is good, traction would be great and there is even a rebate right now!
The Grizzly Locker in C-MAX is great. Nice manners on the street and great traction off road. I paid close attention to its performance last Friday while at the farm. I think you'll like it.

And I just got a coupon from summit and they have a rebate!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 31, 2015, 01:46:28 AM
These came in the mail today. Great service from this company. From my idea to email to reply and to my door in about 4 days!!

I think these look just a little more balanced with the extra louver.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2015, 07:55:08 AM
Cool
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 01, 2015, 03:51:24 AM
I will countour mine to match the fins. Also debating on rivits or screw like you used. I do like the stainless look though.

Did a little digging tonite on the 14bt and there is good and bad.

Good, 4.10 just like I thought and the gears look fine.

Bad, I have a Gov-bomb carrier and it is a little rustier in there than I would like.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on April 01, 2015, 08:45:38 AM
There appears to be no shortage of Gov-bomb differentials in the build thread world of RMTS.

Need a spare?
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 01, 2015, 11:29:02 AM
Dont want to get dirty or cant find a free carrier??

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mgr-6258336

Makes it interesting, $20 coupon, free shipping and a $50 rebate on the Grizzly gives me a locker for $600.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 02, 2015, 01:56:58 AM
Spent about 2 hours today with a scotch pad and a scraper cleaning her up. Was actually very happy with how it turned out.

I used a mallet on the roof dent and much of it popped right out. The dent guy should be able to finish it up easy now.

It needs a good sanding now, sealing and some primer/paint. I do have to address the 3 antenna holes though. I know they make plugs for them and may keep the first one but I thing a little welding is in order here.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 02, 2015, 02:08:15 AM
I really was curious as to what the inside of the motor looked like so I ordered a 7mm endoscope off ebay.

I took pics of each cylinder and saw nothing that would alarm me at all. I could even see crosshatch in most of them. Unfortunetly I could not use the side adapter as it goes over the end and the camera barely fit into the injector hole as it was. The pictures were just 640/480 but weren't really that sharp but they looked good on the laptop. I did take video but it came out to almost a gig for 30-50 seconds so unless I can compress it I would post them.

I did see a little debris on a couple pistons, but the holes were open when I got it.

This is the PPump which is supposed to have over 320k miles!!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 02, 2015, 02:10:35 AM
Here is piston 3-4
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 02, 2015, 02:12:32 AM
Here is the rest 5-6
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 02, 2015, 02:13:55 AM
I may figure out a little led to slid in there from the exhaust as the led on the camera (5) doesn't really do enough.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 02, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Cool little tool!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Dustoff35 on April 02, 2015, 02:13:34 PM
The title for this chapter: "The 6BT gets a Colonoscopy" or something to that effect...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 02, 2015, 02:18:07 PM
The title for this chapter: "The 6BT gets a Colonoscopy" or something to that effect...

Any volunteers??
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 02, 2015, 03:01:20 PM
The title for this chapter: "The 6BT gets a Colonoscopy" or something to that effect...

Any volunteers??
Just checked that block, no thanks!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 03, 2015, 12:09:35 AM
Quote
Just checked that block, no thanks!

Fun ain't it. You will all get your turn.

Kinda like painting, it's all the prep work, not the procedure.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 07, 2015, 12:22:35 AM
Haven't done much in the last week. Took a few days with the family before Easter then had Easter dinner with the inlaws here at home.

Ordered a complete crossover/high steer setup for the 60 from Chassis Unlimited here in Kali, had a great sale and free shipping.

Going to order a new Motive Carrier from Summit with a Grizzly locker. Coupons and free shipping just work for this item.


Don, what offset did you get with those H1 Centers? My new engine stand will also be a great welding turn table when finished and be the same bolt pattern to boot!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 07, 2015, 09:20:01 AM

Don, what offset did you get with those H1 Centers? My new engine stand will also be a great welding turn table when finished and be the same bolt pattern to boot!

Errr, not sure if I specified anything, they just come punched out the way he makes them. I want to say the wheels set up around 3.5" B.S. though...
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 07, 2015, 12:07:08 PM
Thats what I was thinking with the dish angle after re-reading that section. Looks Like I will have to go for a flatter style to suck it into around 4.5in.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 13, 2015, 03:49:09 PM
Well, I sold the VE and made a little profit on it to boot. I think he liked the VE better but profit is good to!

Since the drive train is a known now, time to RR the rims. Found a local place (1hr) Performance Cryogenics that works on H1 wheel. They have centers, beadlocks and will cut mine out for just $15 ea. Thats a deal when you look at time and cleanup. Plus they work on firearms or can cryo whatever you want! http://www.performancecryogenics.com/contact.html

In fact there are several places semi close to where I am that do all this stuff and even Summit is just 2.5 hours away and is a nice stop as I look at property out of kali.

So I am going with a Truetrac is the rear too. Reviews look good, Has Tates approval and I want good street manors with good off road ability.

 
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 13, 2015, 08:20:28 PM
Trutracks! Now that's a blast from the past.

I'm intrigued. I'll eagerly await your observations about the trucks street as well as off road manners.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 14, 2015, 08:34:40 PM
Did some cleanup on the top but wind and foul weather has stopped me from priming it. Looks much better but still have to fill those 3 holes up there.

Above the pass area I sanded more and much the dent popped out. I still need a real body guy has to do some more detail on the sides, wifes SUV and the neighbors bed I scratch up a little  ::) I can do some but those "dentless" guys do wonders!


Now back onto the wheels and axles. Staying with the d60 up front and a 14ff out back but thinking of going to DRW hubs and a wide rear. I need to do some checking still but this will allow me to use the STOCK H1 wheels with no re-centering. That would give me the option of using all 8 tires and wheels I have.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 14, 2015, 08:57:27 PM
Did some cleanup on the top but wind and foul weather has stopped me from priming it. Looks much better but still have to fill those 3 holes up there.

Above the pass area I sanded more and much the dent popped out. I still need a real body guy has to do some more detail on the sides, wifes SUV and the neighbors bed I scratch up a little  ::) I can do some but those "dentless" guys do wonders!


Now back onto the wheels and axles. Staying with the d60 up front and a 14ff out back but thinking of going to DRW hubs and a wide rear. I need to do some checking still but this will allow me to use the STOCK H1 wheels with no re-centering. That would give me the option of using all 8 tires and wheels I have.

That sure looks familiar!
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 14, 2015, 09:24:33 PM
I am trying to remember but I believe a few searches would tell the tale. But the dually hubs/rotors on the front and a dual rear step van 14 bolt allow stock hummer wheels with no spacers. "I think"

I'd still just recenter them personally LoL This would allow common 8 lug wheels to be used in a pinch if required.

I can't seem to get into my E mail but I have a fan with your name on it when/if you need it. I refuse to use those power sucking noisy expensive propellers Dodge called a fan.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on April 14, 2015, 09:35:21 PM
JR, I have a chevy d60 dually at the shop with the hubs still on if you need some measurements.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 15, 2015, 01:10:39 AM
JR, I have a chevy d60 dually at the shop with the hubs still on if you need some measurements.

Yes I would, thanks. But I am thinking of the gm 14bt with the 10.5 ring gear.  Isn't that the one you and Don just scored? I believe its around 72 and the later models have the disc brakes and all.

Not a huge fan of the 14mm studs since then I have to change them. The 9/16 are stronger than the 14mm from my research.

I see many are in favor of recentering which is not a huge issue.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 15, 2015, 01:23:09 AM
After a touch more searching it could be as wide as 75in and there are hubs to adjust that.

Now a set of dually hubs for the D60 front and I am set and they should be way cheaper and easier to find than the standard hubs. I also think the Yukon hubs will still work just fine.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 15, 2015, 08:38:22 AM
A Dually front 60 is 8" wider than a single wheel. So....  than you'd need to be 75" wide to match exactly. The widest 14 Bolt is your dually at 72"  So a 3" stagger. Or 1.5" more stagger than a OEM Chevy 1 ton single wheel 4x4.

Anyway just thinking out loud a bit, as I have contemplated this same swap a time or two for my daily driver pickup.

You could run a 70HD rear axle and use 14 bolt single wheel hubs and get to 74" wide.... but you will need to custom fab some weld on disk brake brackets. One advantage to that is you'd likely be able to find a power-lok equipped 70HD and not need to buy a aftermarket L/S then.






Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on April 15, 2015, 10:50:37 AM
Without taking the wheels off (lugs are pretty rusted) I come up with 77" (very close) on the front and about 67-68" on the back. This was a late 70's 1 ton chevy....so old school drums with pressed studs.
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 15, 2015, 03:13:48 PM
Not crazy about a dana 70. Seen how they hold up after taking apart. Plus the 14bt is easier to find and setup find parts for.

All the duallys are in the front are a spacer or Hub depending on the make. The so called 14bt bible shows the widest at 72, but I don't think it includes the newer trucks/subs with the higher offset wheels.

Heck, might be simpler to just go with steel spacers (just a little more $$) and run the stock h1 wheels and I get the option of bolting any stock wheel in there if needed in a pinch. 
Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 15, 2015, 04:58:47 PM
I can't say for the real new stuff. But my 14 Bolt is a 98 ish 3/4 ton pickup and it's 67" on the head. I know Dodge Dana 80's as an example are wider in single wheel applications...but that's another entire bag of worms. I think all your newer GM's like the Duramax as an example would be the larger ring gear axles. But you could measure yours and find out the width LoL It would be food for thought, if it's actually wider.

Title: Re: 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 15, 2015, 05:02:24 PM
Yeah, the 11.5 and the 10.5 should be the same width. Motor/tranny dictated the rear.

Looks like my 11.5 is about 72 with just poking it through the wheels. Still better than 67.

So 72 with a 9 inch wheel and 7 inch BS gives me 76 rim bead to bead. Burbs are 80 wide so if the tires is out 2 inches per side we MAY be good.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 21, 2015, 03:01:23 PM
OK, so here is what I have gone too.

Keeping the 60 front but it will get dually hubs giving me a 72in wms. Still works with all my parts and I got a set for 100 plus shipping. Heck I can double that if I sell the standard hubs, but will keep them for now and I still have the externals to sell with hubs that should bring a fair penny. I don't quite have an endless bank or income. Plus the house is getting upgrades to get it up to date and possibly keep wifey happier.

The Rear is still getting a 14bt ff but looking for a 72 inch. Will have to cut and remount the pads but thats the norm.

Measured the tires and I get 4in from wms to side of the tire (2.5in to rim edge). This gets me close to the 80in wide the Sparty is so I am going to do some mock ups to see what it looks like. I can also play with the 2.5 spacers I have to see if I like the stance. Don't want the tire WAY out, nor tucked in. Plus since this is the current width of many trucks out there now "finding" spares should nit be a challenge if needed.

Took the front springs to Valley Spring Works in Dixon and they are adding a military wrap spring under the main. Couple bones but still a few less than custom springs.

Talked to 2 tranny guys seeing which direction to go there. Since I kept the 94 engine I now have a 91 tranny so this is in the air until I see the budget. I can get a rebuilt or go custom, but we all know which way we go around here.

Got another order coming in from LMC with a lot of interior parts, padding and insulation. The roof is getting pathed now and the dent guys comes right after the first,,,,,,,,,,$$$$

Oh, the new compressor is sweet. Goes from 140 to 175 in 2 minutes and you can stand next to it. Sold the other for $250 right away! Not bad for a 20 year old craftsman. 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on April 21, 2015, 04:51:21 PM
So you have a narrower d60? I double checked mine and it hasn't shrunk...still 77" wms.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 21, 2015, 05:30:21 PM
front or rear?

My 60 front is 67 wms to wms. I think the gm is 69?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on April 21, 2015, 08:02:34 PM
that was the front, with dually hubs. back was 67.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 21, 2015, 11:14:22 PM
So the hubs are 5in then which sounds right since I have 67 now. So the tires should be 1 inch wider on both sides, about.

Standard hubs are 4.5
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 22, 2015, 11:20:40 PM
Got the hood off so I could finish off the vent area. This thing had to be sitting with the hood open for some time to get all this junk in there. That is under the hood hinge behind a big rubber seal for the hinge.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2015, 09:17:27 AM
You're getting it!

Good time to prime that area and spray that OD Green paint in there!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 23, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
You're getting it!

Good time to prime that area and spray that OD Green paint in there!

Prep and spray with semi black, hood will be black to, truck will be black. Hmm, I have alot of touchup to do with a white truck!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2015, 12:43:11 PM
You're getting it!

Good time to prime that area and spray that OD Green paint in there!

Prep and spray with semi black, hood will be black to, truck will be black. Hmm, I have alot of touchup to do with a white truck!!

Seriously!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on April 23, 2015, 03:21:34 PM
That will be menacing, lookin' forward to it!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 23, 2015, 08:34:12 PM
That will be menacing, lookin' forward to it!

Some intimidation is fine, let em guess it keeps the trouble down.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 24, 2015, 02:53:48 PM
Simple green, Green scuff pads, toilet brush and water does pretty good. Then a little wipe down with thinner and a few coats of Ace Anti rust paint.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 24, 2015, 02:56:31 PM
I had to transfer my makeshift storage shed from one to the other so I can gut the rear.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 25, 2015, 12:15:51 AM
Man, just look at all those barn doors!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 25, 2015, 12:41:10 PM
And look at all the stuff!! That was inside the 2500 but I need to gut that thing. Between Randys boxes, Summit and a big LMC box and the seats it filled up quick!!

Then I found this outside my house again today  ;D that contains floor insulation and door/window seals.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 25, 2015, 05:19:43 PM
Need a little help guys with insulation. Layers are better, so lets hear from ya!!

Looking at the dynamat and other stuff like Lizard Skin plus a layer over that for the roof and maybe the doors. Floors will get inside and outside treatment.

So besides the regular insuation (gray matt with foil) what about the others? I see foil over thin white foam, the foil bubble stuff like at home stores and the such.


What have you used, what ideas do you have
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 25, 2015, 05:33:37 PM
Primer, then under coating, followed by Lizard skin, then dynamat. That would be an acoustically dead surface
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 25, 2015, 08:26:27 PM
So will my wallet. Good for the floor where most of the sound is. Maybe the doors.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 26, 2015, 04:00:57 AM
So onward a little with stripping the rear. Put the youngest to work probably violating a couple child labor codes, but hey he liked it. Besides that he could almost stand up in there!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 26, 2015, 04:13:20 AM
Cleaned up the rear step a little using an 12v Nextec oscillating tool with a scrapper that worked great. Ground off the rust and it looks solid enough to just treat and paint.

Now the receiver is another matter. I have never seen anything rusted up this bad on dry land. I used a 6lb sledge on the clip, then a air chisel to knock out the pin and that barely worked. Hitch is solid. Been soaking now for a couple days with wd and now another break free type lube and still it won't move. I may have to cut the hitch out, it is really that bad.

I will say the roof is very clean. I expected a lot more rust from what I saw when pulling parts.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 26, 2015, 07:48:12 AM
Excellent use of child labor!

Gonna employ some myself today on the farm!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 26, 2015, 12:45:10 PM
As you can see that headliner is in fine shape. The good part of that is it is just a flat cardboard cutout so I use it as a pattern. The bad news is the cheapest headliner I have found is still well over $400 and is only for the rear AC burbs, mine is not.

If I can get it to lay flat I have used fiberglass to RR them before with great results.

Sounds like the farm is getting the attention it deserves, will be good some of the progress as I doubt it will all make it here,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 27, 2015, 07:11:44 AM
Floor: Make your own Lizard Skin...it's MUCH cheaper. I have done this in the past with excellent results. A quick Google search will provide you the recipe.

I'd epoxy the floor/lizard skin and then use whatever you'd like above that. Just keep in mind that's a large floor, and you will increase weight the more layers you use. 

Hitch: Mix some acetone and ATF 50/50 and soak that reliever once a day for a few days, and then try and remove.



Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 27, 2015, 10:26:20 AM
I found a cheaper coating and have been looking into that. Never thought about making my own, thx.

I have used ATF before, it does wonders, but never with acetone.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 28, 2015, 01:40:10 AM
Got what I need to make my own and already have new padding a matts.

Found this picture, wish I was this far but you get the idea.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 28, 2015, 08:43:38 AM
Those steel tires are showin' up all over the place

I'm feelin' this...I am about to start my shackle flip and long spring conversion on the battle-dodge
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 28, 2015, 10:04:26 AM
Kinda wish I had gone to longer springs up front. Of course I always can, just $$$
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 28, 2015, 07:12:04 PM
Working on the hitch with no giving yet. I drilled a hole in the top and am now "feeding" it tranny fluid mixes. The 6lb sledge still is not moving it.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 29, 2015, 10:49:58 AM
You did take the pin out?   :D

So when you putting that oil burner in?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 29, 2015, 11:05:11 AM
You did take the pin out?   :D

So when you putting that oil burner in?
OHH, no wonder it won't come out!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Had to use an air chisel after starting it with a sledge.

Burner will after the lift which I am doing now. In fact I should have the front springs today.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 29, 2015, 04:37:03 PM
At least your getting something done. I have so far spent the day welding/sandblasting/ creating a sprayer cart for weed control on our property here at home.  Fun stuff, but not truck orientated.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 29, 2015, 07:29:49 PM
I started tearing into the front axle today. Will link it up to this in the drivetrain thread;

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=593.msg6754#msg6754

I think tomorrow I will go to PnP and look for wide 14bt and a 2 wheel drive steering box.

What cool parts are in that "lot"

Also, are all the cummins fan the same depth? I hear there is a deep and shallow fan, but I think it is based on the pulley system and not the fan/clutch?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 01, 2015, 12:44:33 AM
No rear but I got a nice 2 wheel drive steering box. But a bonus was I sold the 67 inch 14bt for $50 more than I bought it for. Also met a young man who works on diesels and knows cummins well (so he said) and has many of the special tools for injectors and such.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on May 01, 2015, 08:40:02 AM
I started tearing into the front axle today. Will link it up to this in the drivetrain thread;

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=593.msg6754#msg6754

I think tomorrow I will go to PnP and look for wide 14bt and a 2 wheel drive steering box.

What cool parts are in that "lot"

Also, are all the cummins fan the same depth? I hear there is a deep and shallow fan, but I think it is based on the pulley system and not the fan/clutch?
I don't know about the shallow vs deep fan, but...

I do know the VE pump motors places the fan at a different place than the P-Pump motors do. Not a real factor to someone doing a first time Cummins install, but it is for someone going from a VE to a P-pump motor (me)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 07, 2015, 12:41:25 AM
Well, been spending lots of $$$ getting suspension parts and some came in. DRW front hubs too but now that I see SDs tire clearance I my be fine.

Got the 1104 SL steering arm for the 2WD box and see there is a mod to loose the rag joint using a XJ shaft.

Also removed the radio mount on the drivers side.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 07, 2015, 01:02:37 AM
Found a late model rear axle with 4.11 for under $300 I will pickup tomorrow. Actually saved me since it is disc already. Also think it is a G80 but is coming out anyway.

Waiting for my DIY shackle flips from DIY4x4 and Dana 60 conversion bushings (gm to dodge) from Off Road Design.

Figuring out the beedlocks too. Seems the PVC are getting hard to get like the Hutchensons. A local place who sells the H1 tires makes them from removing the run flat on the stock beedlocks. They simply waterjet the center off which retains the beedlock and they cost the same as the PVC and are local enogh to pickup.

I am going to start wheel tire spacing since I have a few combos to try on. I have 67 axles now (light duty) and can see what 2.5 spacers look like with H1 tires. Then I can try the DRW hubs and see if they stick out to far. Some picture look really good with the H1 wheels with DRW hubs on the square body. I can even use van hubs on the rear to push the wheels out some with all other parts staying the same (rotors?)

As simple as this;

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 09, 2015, 02:46:47 PM
This has been parts week. Need to start getting this stuff on I am running out of room!!

Dumped the first 14bt. Was the older style, had a gov bomb and was rustier than I like inside. I even made money on it.

Picked up an 2006 with 150k on it for $300. Open carrier, 4.10 gears, Dics brakes and all the lines. Only issue is to weld on new pads and get a Truetrac for it.

I had to pull the calipers since they were rusted just bad enough I could not turn it for cleaning. Made this little cart for moving it around (1 for the 60 too)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 09, 2015, 02:51:33 PM
Got my Shackle Flip kit from DIY4x4 with 4.5 shackles.

Also bushings and bolts from Offroad Design. They even have and offset bushing kit to mount the Dodge Dana 60 into the GM frame.

2wd steering box and 1104 SL arm for the crossover setup.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on May 09, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
Nice collection of parts!

When you see it all coming together?

Your project is moving right along...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 09, 2015, 11:05:53 PM
Ive done more than I post. It really does seem I has less time all the time and summer break is close!

The time tables sort of goes like this;

Finish the lift and the interior/exterior so it is driveable. Waiting for a call on the front springs then I will pull the rears for a re-arch. As it becomes driveable I will work a little on the 1500 to flip it which gives me room and cash for more parts. Need to fab temp bumper for the front as she is bare right now. I have some 4x4x250 I can do this with but looking at 4x6 as a base, but maybe even 6x8

Body man was here this week but only did about 80% of what I thought he would. He said metal is to thick on this old stuff to push out. This is going on now and I will post more soon. It is hood grill time with plugging antenna holes and laying down primer. 

I will leave the stock axles on it for this as I build the axles. Randys (thx Tate) has been a big help here. This way I do not have to have drivelines built twice.

Then as I tweak the lift I will begin the build on the motor and trans as I want to install before the end of summer. Lots of research going on, I like to plan.

Cowl has been cleaned and painted but the hinges really needed a color coat;
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 15, 2015, 02:36:05 AM
Got those hinges and the vent area all put back on. Even the thick ol hinge seals looked good after 25 years.

Cleaned em up, ad a little sillycon on good to go. Neversieze on the bolts a few screws, the beginning of a black hood!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 15, 2015, 02:56:52 AM
It also appears I found a tranny builder just 2 blocks away. I talked to his son and liked what I heard. Then I called another tranny guy I have used for 30 years and they said he is a good Chrysler guy to boot.

My garage is a mess. I have to plane my pictures so the clutter doesn't mess things up.

I did get this installed but now I have another motor sitting in the middle of the floor that was sitting there. Its a 5.3 LS for the El Camino but I need the stand anyway for the CTD. So Looks like a good time to swap em.

Sure makes the wife happy now that I can wash my hands in the garage vs the kitchen sink.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 15, 2015, 03:01:29 AM
Also pulled this stupid screen out that was doing no good. Rad was filled with stuff. Looking a little closer I think an intercooler will fit just fine.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on May 15, 2015, 09:53:32 AM
Just for reference...

(http://i.imgur.com/ZjA9zko.jpg)

Obviously that's in a Dodge but gives you and idea the space required for a PS Intercooler as one possible option.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 15, 2015, 10:42:01 AM
Thats tight but looks good. Is that for the dodge 94-98?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on May 15, 2015, 11:40:55 AM
No that is a power stroke cooler 1999 and older. Very durable piece compared to the 2nd gen dodge as an example.

It's handling 60psi of boost daily LoL
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 15, 2015, 02:14:02 PM
Thx, I have heard the PS intercooler is a good option. Probably easier to come by too.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on May 15, 2015, 07:26:06 PM
Thx, I have heard the PS intercooler is a good option. Probably easier to come by too.

You kiddin???

I looked forever around here and finally settled on the 2nd gen Dodge piece. I kept finding the P.S. Plastic tank IC which most people shy away from
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on May 16, 2015, 08:00:59 AM
Yeah  Don they are getting harder and harder to find. And you do NOT want a plastic PS cooler as you mentioned. Another thing to look out for on Fords Coolers is they run a fair amount of oil through the intercooler. If the engine blows up it's possible to get a fair amount of metal and debris in there as well....making it about impossible to flush clean.

Another although spendy option would be just to have one built that fits. The Cummins doesn't need a huge radiator to be happy in all but HD towing. So careful consideration of use and such might be the secret to which cooler to run.

I most likely will run non in our project.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2015, 09:03:15 AM
I went with a second gen because Cummins designed the P-Pump motor to run that cooler, there are a lot of those trucks still around (Spare parts) and it is a service item from a host of parts places.
Plus compared to the 1st gen cooler, I'm betting it is twice the size and seems to be well built. Mine was free when I bought a couple of Cummins engines
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 16, 2015, 01:43:59 PM
Well, just a quick ebay search turned out new ones, fully welded for $400. Some used ones for about half that and about the same for dodge units.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on May 16, 2015, 04:41:37 PM
stainless steel is a good choice for a sink, stays cleaner longer and is easier to clean.  ( a little behind the curve I know)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2015, 08:00:05 PM
Well, just a quick ebay search turned out new ones, fully welded for $400. Some used ones for about half that and about the same for dodge units.
Cool!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 25, 2015, 03:00:59 AM
Can't believe its been a week since I posted here. Got some DOT action in so all is good. Working on the house for a refi to make it look a tad better. Plus I twisted my ankle a little which I seem to do every 2-3 years and I'm moving a little slow.

Have been chasing parts though and got some new beadlocks to try out. They come from Performance Cryogenics located in the foothills above Sac. Just the drive alone was nice and was just about 1.5 hrs from the house. Sure was nice out of the burbs for a little.

Anyway, these are HD rubber almost 1 inch thick (think it is floor matting for horses) cut and joined with a plate and bolts. From some articles everything this guy makes is dead on. These look pretty solid (never dealt with locks before) and are $50, just like the PVC.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 25, 2015, 03:10:37 AM
Now obviously the bolts are not snugged up yet, but thats easy enough. Thought about putting SS in there but he said no need since they are sealed up.

Finally got my front springs back. Just standard length HD Tuff Country springs. However I have a military wrap added for safety and to help carry that extra weight of a CTD up there. He also increased the center bolt size as he didn't like what he saw. Plus I had him leave the strap open so I could run a bolt on the clamp for easier service if need be. I may remove the short bottom spring if a little stiff also even with the CTD.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on May 25, 2015, 08:54:55 AM
Yea, man, that's good looking stuff there

I need to figure out the spring pack clips pdq myself

About to install the extra leaf in my front spring pack so I'll have them apart (again)

I purchased some of those new ones you slide together, then hammer and fold to lock, but they were too short
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 25, 2015, 10:37:07 AM
I have done this with springs before. Just run a bolt and a piece of rubber for a bushing. I think I will remove the short spring now as it should soften it up some without costing me little if any load rating, that SBC chevy is not going to move those much!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 17, 2015, 05:46:33 PM
Little update on the build and me. Build is slow right now as keep acquiring parts and trying to find room for them in my garage which is a mess.

During all this I twisted an ankle a few weeks back which has slowed me down. Well, I got tired of the swelling and pain and dipping into the pills for the pain just to move around. So I go see a specialist and found out I have chips in both ankles and torn ligaments with bone attached. CT will tell were I am in a week or so and when surgery will happen, one leg at a time.

So work will continue but at a little slower pace. Like most of you, daddy cuties don't go away like putting in patio, solar and new fences all around the house. Plus wifey wants a new kitchen!!

I am still shooting to have the lift done in a few weeks with the swap later this summer.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on June 17, 2015, 08:00:54 PM
Well that all sucks for right now. And good luck with the repairs!

I'm only a wee youngin' at 42, "at least" 7 combined ankle fractures over the years "they say".
I've never had a cast in my life. Needless to say I'm not looking forward to the later years of this beat up unit I call me.

So I think one day later on I'll be in your boat there JR, not looking forward to those times.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 17, 2015, 08:41:51 PM
I never have broken one, but almost wish I had. Over the years I have "rolled" them so many times I can't count.

Nice thing is just got an MRI scheduled for friday. That is faster than an inmate gets them!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Nate on June 17, 2015, 09:56:32 PM
sam, jr, this ones just for you.  this is 10 days after reconstructive surgery when they took the plaster cast off to put the fiberglass one on.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on June 17, 2015, 10:41:13 PM
Nice. Yeah pretty much what's coming my way at some point I suspect.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on June 17, 2015, 11:13:24 PM
JR, too bad you have this on your plate, but who here hasn't?

Symptoms of an active lifestyle and living!

We'll lift you up on surgery day for sure...keep us posted
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 18, 2015, 02:01:50 AM
Yeah, just something else to fit in, but such is life.

Still waiting to hear on your knees,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on June 18, 2015, 11:28:30 AM
Yeah, just something else to fit in, but such is life.

Still waiting to hear on your knees,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
My knees??

Well, not getting surgery until there is nothing else I can do. I am having some success working out on the treadmill and stretching followed with some strength training.

Motion...is Lotion!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 18, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
Yep, I hear you there. I have osteoarthritis in both feet, moving helps alot.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 24, 2015, 02:54:12 PM
sam, jr, this ones just for you.  this is 10 days after reconstructive surgery when they took the plaster cast off to put the fiberglass one on.



Well, I think this will be me in a few weeks. I was told I would be laid up for 6 weeks on each leg when this is done,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 24, 2015, 03:00:38 PM
Anyway, back to gettin some done on Spartan;

Got the new headlight mounted up, new adjusters and SS screws to hold the light frames on, after a nice coat of paint.

The adjusters were nasty and I could find one, so all got replaced. Plus the new ones were a phillips head to adjust vs the torxs head.

When I was getting the SS screws I scored this paint for just $1 a can!! They have a few more left and I just may for that price but I have 8 now.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 24, 2015, 03:07:55 PM
Next to be address is a relay setup for the lights to get full power. I have the 80/100 watt bulbs on the way since he stock are 55/60, who cares about DOT!!

Then I am going to address this cooler they attached threw the AC condenser and sits at an angle with the top tubes resting right on it (well they did pad it a little) I have a couple off nice stacked coolers that should fit just fine.

Button on the purdy front plastic and build a quicky bumper for the front so I can drive it around.

By the way, you guys talking about the pool the other guys have. I put one in last year and have a solar water heater system I made for it. Check out the pool temp yesterday;
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on June 24, 2015, 08:44:26 PM
Water temp was 102?????!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 24, 2015, 08:55:03 PM
Water temp was 102?????!!!!!!!!!!

That is near the surface with a solar heater and cover. It hit 104* today so I turned on the spray and added a little city water to cool it down. Sitting at 95 right now, kids are happy. They even have a ZIP line.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on June 24, 2015, 09:22:31 PM
That looks nice. Would love to have that right about now!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: BobbyB on June 24, 2015, 10:55:53 PM
Well did you ever call that extension like the note said?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 24, 2015, 11:21:57 PM
Well did you ever call that extension like the note said?

Thats my wife ext at work. I used to pickup things there, now she passes meds. Sort of a "captive" audience.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 25, 2015, 04:50:38 AM
Oh, do you see the little Elk there? My wife got that when we were at the Grand Canyon and when I got up in the morning this was in front of me and my youngest who slept outside.

Yes it was that close but my g23 was in hand and I was behind a tree.

(sorry for the Norm size picture  ::) )
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 25, 2015, 05:04:08 AM
Played the cooler tonite, getting the crappy tube/fin off and and seeing what a hack job they did mounting it. If that was done by a Gov mechanic he needs a lot of training still. At least it is easy to get to by sliding the rad back a little.

The new cooler is a little smaller in area, but is more eff, tougher and actually has 150 sq in of cooling area (9 x11.1x1.5) vs the 90 sq in of the finned cooler (10x12x3/4).

Mounting the new one will be a cinch using the holes made for a cooler just like the oil cooler on the other side. Plus the cooler just has NPT female so no issues.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: duramaxdarren on July 06, 2015, 07:50:33 PM
shoot the deer in the face !! shoot the deer in the face!!! way to close to family for comfort...if you were solo then id say wrastle (wrestle) him
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on July 06, 2015, 08:57:59 PM
shoot the deer in the face !! shoot the deer in the face!!! way to close to family for comfort...if you were solo then id say wrastle (wrestle) him

Did I miss something?

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: duramaxdarren on July 06, 2015, 09:52:34 PM
yes the deer that was outside your tent! yo posted a pic of him with the velvet still on his rack
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on July 06, 2015, 10:04:42 PM
shoot the deer in the face !! shoot the deer in the face!!! way to close to family for comfort...if you were solo then id say wrastle (wrestle) him

Did I miss something?


Darren's been working some long hours!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on July 06, 2015, 11:03:46 PM
Must be an eastern thang, calling an elk a deer. I wish we had deer that big out here!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: duramaxdarren on July 06, 2015, 11:28:19 PM
i am sooo dumb? what's an elk lol? we only see that stuff on national geographic lol. we get deer passing through our yard frequently though. kara is much more in tune with that growing up hunting with her dad, myself i hunt for meat in the butcher shop lol. the long hours cuts into my nature time haha. ok enough DOT by darren. carry on with the burb. looking good btw
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on July 07, 2015, 12:11:01 AM
If it makes you feel better, it is in the deer family. lol

Don't worry, JR don't bite. Wait, I'm actually not real sure about that.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on July 07, 2015, 01:27:37 AM
OK, that was a couple pages back. Elk or deer a good shot makes for a good dinner. To bad that Elk was in Grand Canyon Park. We have little black tail here. Last one I shot was on the job when it didn't quite make it over a iron fence. Was a nice 3 point that tore its rear quarter apart trying to get down.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on August 15, 2015, 03:10:06 PM
Well, got the wiring cleaned up on the front end. Stock it is down behind the the trim near the bumper and cooling lines. To easy for damage there.

Moved them up to above the coolers, simple fix and used most of the stock clips. It is held up with a bungee as I cleaned up the coolers and painted it up.

Also took it down for a smog test hoping for a clean test do I can drive it around more. It didn't fail per say but per the tech it kept falling out of testing spec because it ran rough. I watched the guy try it 3 times and it kept resetting. So now its a tuneup, fuel treatment and Seafoam.

Actually I will have a little more time now as school has started. Even though I take and pickup 4 days a week it frees up the "entertainment" part.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on August 27, 2015, 03:25:05 PM
Beginning to plot my bumpers out and saw this down the street. Thought it was a pretty cool idea. With that on both ends, think of the options!

Sorry for the bad pic, had my daughter take it. Like hillary, has electronics but using them!!! my wife always chops off heads and zooms in way to much,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2015, 09:56:16 PM
Painted it orange too!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on August 28, 2015, 07:23:18 AM
HF sells something similar. I used to have one of those I built in the bed of my farm truck. Last time I tipped it over I ruined it, But it was very handy. I keep thinking I will build one for my trailer at some point..still haven't LoL
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on October 20, 2015, 12:05:05 PM
This one slid into the bumper, I liked it!

Anyway auto projects been on hold a little getting the yard done before the weather come in this year.

Fences, rear paver deck and few other little things.Plus it gives me room to move things around.

2 yards of sand just came in, back to work!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 01:57:29 PM
A 7/8 allen found its way home with me last week for the front axle build.

Ordered new rear springs vs re-arching the 25 year old ones. Tuff Country, just like the fronts.

Soon as this legs gets better we are on again!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on December 02, 2015, 04:31:51 PM
What in the world do you need a 7/8 allen for?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 06:29:09 PM
For the kingpin cone.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on December 02, 2015, 06:29:34 PM
Dana 60 kingpins

Edit: may need some heat tool
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 06:40:52 PM
We have heat, big hammers and long bars.

Alone or in combo, something will work!

I was going to buy the socket, but the big ol "L" bar is so cooler and harder to loose.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on December 02, 2015, 06:47:36 PM
Sorry, was thinking the IFS.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on December 02, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
JR, just started reading this build thread. I like it!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: husker77c on December 03, 2015, 12:24:11 PM

We have heat, big hammers and long bars.

Alone or in combo, something will work!

I was going to buy the socket, but the big ol "L" bar is so cooler and harder to loose.

I could lose it. Guaranteed I could lose it immediately after I used it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on December 03, 2015, 11:24:09 PM
I used to have a snap-on 7/8  socket for those king pins. Broke that twice now.... I also broke the standard key variety also.

By golly what WORKS is a large pipe wrench and a piece of pipe combined with anger LoL If that doesn't work I have welded rather large nuts on the king pin on a few occasions. (sometimes the pipe wrench needs a better grip)But these days, I try halfheartedly to remove them with the pipe wrench and then go straight to surgical gas axe removal. Because the last pipe wrench and 12' pipe attack tore the truck off the jack stands.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 03, 2015, 11:29:45 PM
Yep, a nice bead will do wonders around that thing and welding a but nut on there should help too!

Norm, your just a brute  8)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 04, 2015, 03:19:31 PM
Well, I am having some issue with sourcing rear springs. I need 2 in lift for the shackle flip with 56 in length. All searches bring up 52 in length for the burbs with that lift or 4 in with 56.

So after some searching I found a company called SD Spring. They had the length I needed and shipping was fair.

My stock springs are a 6-1 pack, rated at 22-2300 lbs. These springs have NO arch left at all. Rubber bushings and anti rub pads.

I ordered the standard springs for my 91 Sub which were an 8-1 pack, rated at 2600 lbs and have a 6.5 arch but sure that will flatten a little. Still have rubber bushings and anti-rub pads.

Should be here early next week when I am moving a little better.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on December 04, 2015, 05:01:36 PM
Couldn't you have by passed doing the shackle flip and used a spring with more lift or am I missing something?

Well, I am having some issue with sourcing rear springs. I need 2 in lift for the shackle flip with 56 in length. All searches bring up 52 in length for the burbs with that lift or 4 in with 56.

So after some searching I found a company called SD Spring. They had the length I needed and shipping was fair.

My stock springs are a 6-1 pack, rated at 22-2300 lbs. These springs have NO arch left at all. Rubber bushings and anti rub pads.

I ordered the standard springs for my 91 Sub which were an 8-1 pack, rated at 2600 lbs and have a 6.5 arch but sure that will flatten a little. Still have rubber bushings and anti-rub pads.

Should be here early next week when I am moving a little better.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 04, 2015, 05:12:26 PM
I've used SD Spring before.  Seem to be good people.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 04, 2015, 05:27:08 PM
Their help was great when I ordered. Wanted to be sure I got the right thing. I had to be sure they had the scuff pads which are OEM.

Heck just these should give me 2-3 lift without the reverse shackle. My springs are flat, these have a 6 in arch so with the reverse I get my 6 inch to match the front and fine tune.

 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on December 05, 2015, 11:56:30 AM
I also have used SD spring, they have always been real decent to deal with. In fact I need to order some front OEM springs for my daily driver soon. I should do that Monday....if I don't forget.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 17, 2015, 12:46:49 AM
Springs showed up and look good. My current springs are about as flat as you can get, basically sitting on the overloads.

New springs are 2 stage, with 8 leafs and rated about 500lb more per. Plus they have around 6 in arc as they sit.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 17, 2015, 07:57:17 AM
I love new parts all shiny and clean.  Gives me that warm fuzzy feeling like when the brown truck fairy visits.

Those look great JR....get to work!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 17, 2015, 09:26:17 AM
I put SD springs on the front of SquareD, and then removed two leaves...which I am now going to be putting back in!
The late model Silverado rear springs I will be installing in Square D are also from SD...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 17, 2015, 09:34:38 PM
I put SD springs on the front of SquareD, and then removed two leaves...which I am now going to be putting back in!
The late model Silverado rear springs I will be installing in Square D are also from SD...

I almost got the HD springs for the rear too thinking the same lines. But I went with their standards which are rated way better than stock anyway and I am sure spring tech has changed a lot in the last 25 years too.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 18, 2015, 09:48:50 AM
I put SD springs on the front of SquareD, and then removed two leaves...which I am now going to be putting back in!
The late model Silverado rear springs I will be installing in Square D are also from SD...

I almost got the HD springs for the rear too thinking the same lines. But I went with their standards which are rated way better than stock anyway and I am sure spring tech has changed a lot in the last 25 years too.
Tech has changed, but so has steels

Don't know if you're noticing, but today's steels seem lower quality that that of the past.

Maybe it's just me, but fenders are both thinner and of poorer quality. Older as in 40 year old springs can sometimes be reused, like I am doing whereas some of the modern stuff is not holding up.
Perhaps it's just that the average steel of yesteryear was of a higher grade than the mass produced Chinese junk of today because of cost. I mean making steel is just chemistry in the end...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: wilsonphil on December 18, 2015, 10:29:30 AM
I have had horrible experience in springs, Don is 100% correct about the quality of the spring material driving the problem.  Some spring makers have no idea what they build, with one spring maker I was on the phone about 5min with the "engineering" dept I was getting very scared with what I was hearing. 

The BIG reason you are seeing it now is most of the material spring makers like SD and Superlift and some BIG name suspension makers is being sourced/made in India, China or other places that have almost ZERO quality control.

After three sets of springs I just went to a custom maker that I could visit the shop look at the raw material that is USA made with heat lots and traceability of the product.   I haven't had a problem since and the spring did what he predicted, also the spring maker said if your not happy we can change it around until you are happy at zero cost to me other than the labor or pulling the spring out and putting it back in.

and to the people that say USA material is to over priced the USA material is typically about 20 to 30% more and given the choice I always spend the extra and get domestic.  Sometimes I am not given the choice and have to buy Foreign sourced material.  But have had very good luck with German and English/European material.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 18, 2015, 11:27:16 AM
I've found the same thing

American first, no doubt.

You're buying work ethic!

The Germans are pretty good. Aussies make good stuff, as do some Japs.
If you could get Russian made stuff and you were strong enough to lift whatever it was, you'd be getting (Most times) good stuff

Know why no Russians know what balloons are?
The first ones were made from cast iron and the idea never went any further!

Their cars only make 55 horsepower. But they have made it since the Triassic period!

Chinaman junk is so hit or miss, I am sometimes wishing that the factories would just get hit by an asteroid!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: wilsonphil on December 18, 2015, 12:46:04 PM
Don't make me rant about buying products from countries that sell stuff to people that they know will kill and maim our guys!  I hate sending one cent to them and its not only China but they are the worst!   
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 18, 2015, 02:25:54 PM
Well, I hear you on all of that but I have them now and shipping would cost as much as the springs.

Given the late 80's GM stuff I would venture these are better than stock. lookd up many
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 18, 2015, 03:12:01 PM
Not saying yours or my two sets of chinaman SD springs are junk, just, regretfully, made by the chinamen
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 18, 2015, 05:14:25 PM
So much is nowadays. Such is the manufacturing base here in the US with all the regs and taxes.

I like buying US made items, but not for 2-3 times the price. That can really hurt with big ticket items.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 19, 2015, 11:28:51 AM
Well there is a robust cottage industry of good American stuff still alive and struggling, no thanks to democrat and RINO republicans trying to kill it.

This Tank Bag company we found yesterday is a good example

https://www.facebook.com/TankVestcom-227004867354697/
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 19, 2015, 12:55:46 PM
Yep. lots of good ol US made things out there still. I buy what I can based on use and price.

I like the look of those. Used a generic tank pack on an old street Zuk I had. Nothing like the versatility of putting on what you want, where you want.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 03, 2016, 02:48:55 AM
Couple updates with picture to follow.

Found a 92 VE with all the bells and whistles for $1250, couldn't say no. I think this will be a better route for what I want, issues I have seen and keeping the tranny I have.

Also my first surgery is scheduled for early March. This is a full reconstruction of my ankles that are in bad shape, both will get done at diff times. This will put me out for at least 6 weeks doing anything labor intensive. I will not be idle, but won't be dragging motors or axle around either. Plenty to do like sanding, painting and interior work.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Farmer Jon on February 03, 2016, 07:42:36 AM
Did the half ton and 3/4 ton use the same frame? My 91 has the saggy rear end problem and will need new springs. If I gotta buy new ones I want to go with 3/4 ton springs if they will fit. I don't want to do a bunch of fabrication. This is more of a beater and run around fishing/hunting truck than a restoration project.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 03, 2016, 08:34:14 AM
Jon you might look in your area for a company that re-arches them as well.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 03, 2016, 10:40:06 AM
I thought about re-arching mine but went with new. They were about the same as a re-arch and aren't 20+ years old! My springs were flat being supported on the overload.

Try SDSpring as suburban springs are not normal size and I have been sold the wrong thing.

There is an .020 diff in the frame thickness from the 1/2 to 3/4 ton. 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Farmer Jon on February 03, 2016, 12:41:03 PM
So if my thinking is right I can pull the 3/4 ton axles out of my 80 pickup. Then I need to order new 3/4 ton springs for a suburban. That will raise up the rear end quite a bit. Then if I order a 2 inch lift for a 3/4 ton it will come with new 3/4 ton front springs. If i gotta buy new springs anyway I just as well lift it a little.

I don't NEED a 3/4 suburban but if Im going to put new springs on I just as well go one step up.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 03, 2016, 06:09:43 PM
I like your logic
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 03, 2016, 06:26:53 PM
If you look at the SD spring site they list them by vehicle, then by height. I called to be sure, they knew their stuff.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on February 03, 2016, 07:29:32 PM
So if my thinking is right I can pull the 3/4 ton axles out of my 80 pickup. Then I need to order new 3/4 ton springs for a suburban. That will raise up the rear end quite a bit. Then if I order a 2 inch lift for a 3/4 ton it will come with new 3/4 ton front springs. If i gotta buy new springs anyway I just as well lift it a little.

I don't NEED a 3/4 suburban but if Im going to put new springs on I just as well go one step up.


Most lift kits have option of buying rear lift springs right along with the fronts.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 08, 2016, 12:39:49 AM
Anyway, got the VE loaded in my little trailer since I have some work to do before the swap begins. Looks like I have the Ppump sold to a local shop (gave a deposit). Full asking price which just breaks me even, but $750 more then the VE cost, so its good. Going to make a quick soft top (conduit-tarp) for this little LUV trailer my brother and I made before he passed. I was going to donate it to the local scouts, but just never worked out which maybe for the better.

What sold me on this VE was it came with everything, even a fan which people think are made of gold wanting $200 for a used one!! Plus with the other adventures with the Ppump I am hearing of it is a better choice and will still make the 400hp or so I want with just the turbo and injectors.

Just stock, HC1 with a little shaft play but I have another from the Ppump, but plan on going to an HC35W anyway. Hopefully will get a lot of info from Norm on this.

Plus the buyer knows a good tranny man so the 46rh I have may just do the job just fine.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 08, 2016, 12:50:07 AM
Took a little ride with the boys to see the "glory hole" up on Lake Berryessa for a scouting award for my oldest. Rain has been good and the water level is up about 6 ft from this picture. Lake is down 35ft form it normal 300+ so not to bad.

Also had a little break with the Pinewood Derby that a buddy and I run after the RR of the track last year. Thats my youngest in the tan pants, he made it to the finals!

Was a great drive and got some cool pics, even a double rainbow heading up.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 08, 2016, 08:59:12 AM
That lake is low!

I've seen the water level even with the intake...a hole in the water!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on February 08, 2016, 11:06:59 AM
Looks like a blast there JR. ah the pinewood derby, good memories...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 08, 2016, 11:09:16 AM
I have seen it going over more than once. Other lakes in the area are less than 1/2 full so 10% down is not a huge deal.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cj7ox on February 09, 2016, 07:46:11 PM
Burb is looking really good, JR. Brings back memories of hunting and fishing trips with my grandfather, in his '73. I really miss than truck. Bare bones, vinyl seats, 1 speaker AM radio, no AC. Great times!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 09, 2016, 08:06:38 PM

What sold me on this VE was it came with everything, even a fan which people think are made of gold wanting $200 for a used one!! Plus with the other adventures with the Ppump I am hearing of it is a better choice and will still make the 400hp or so I want with just the turbo and injectors.

hey.. don't knock the PPump. mine runs just fine stuck in a 1 gal Gatorade bottle!!  ;D and it's not even in a truck. hahah
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 09, 2016, 09:21:53 PM
Not knocking the Pp, just think I can get what I need better with the VE. Plus it is more user friendly, known for better starting and mileage.

Heck, I made $750 on the deal and got a motor with 1/2 the mileage on it. Just a fuel pin, spring and turbo kit and I get another 100hp fairly easy.

Right now on the agenda is getting it running again. I have the TB torn down and new HP injectors and a new dist for it now. Get it cleaned up a little more with the new seats, lift and tires as I get the last few items for the swap and have the tranny done. Found anpther local guy who does the dodge trannys so looks like the 46rh will be final tranny.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 09, 2016, 09:38:29 PM
you talking about getting the old gasser running again..? some of those acronyms weren't registering in my diesel dictionary. hahah. do you have a tcase for the 46? were you lucky enough to have bought it with the 205 bolted to it..? my VE is incredibly reliable. cranks on less than 1 revolution, running the old 3 speed with who knows what TC, HX35 turbo and 2nd gen IC in it and im still getting 16 mpg. need to do a 3600 GSK on it at some point. the focus has been in the 715 as of late. it's hard to mess with a running truck. hahah

getting a killer deal on a complete VE.. no one can pass that up. well done
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 03:17:32 AM
Yep, the 350 is solid and running great. Will run it like that like I said but will be driving the S10 for awhile as I won't be able to climb into anything in a few weeks, for a month or so. It has a 4L80E in it now that looks new to what I think is a 241. This thing is all manual now but I will install remote locks.

The 46 I have came mated with the 205, so I am good. You can't find a better HD Tcase IMHO for what we drive.

Just ordered a fuel pin and 3200 spring. I see the HX35 on ebay for under $300, but think they are chinese copies. Rather buy a real one, weren't they stock on some 98's?

Thought I found a IC, but its off a 93 ford, not a 99-03 SD and it sounds to narrow. I need it around 34 wide to go around the radiator.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 09:46:51 AM
fairly certain the 35s were from 94-98. and a 2nd gen IC is plenty wide enough to fit. I'll measure mine when I get back home and can let you know. I picked up my 35 from a guy in CL (same guy i bought the IC from) I drove down after i had installed the IC and capped off the inlet and outlets. he installed in for $300 total. seemed like a deal. and it is a holset. just do some CL searching. you got lucky finding the 205 on the back of the trans. in my experience.. they're almost impossible to find to fit the spline count of the autos.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 10:38:57 AM
after alittle interwebzz search.. 95-98 manuals were the 8 blade hx35s and 99-02 manuals were the 7 blade hx35s. I think what you have is the big H1C from an intercooled 1st gen (91.5-93) the 94s had WH1Cs..

please.. correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 11:01:34 AM
I was looking at the SD Ics as they are wide and tall. How deep is the dodge IC?

Thacks for the lead on the turbo, will start looking.

The PP I had came with 2 HC1s, one had a wg, one did not. Sold the W with the PP, so I still have 2 HC1s now so selling those should offset the HX35w some.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 11:19:36 AM
the 2nd dodges are freakin stout. wider than a powerstroke I think. they're 2.5"'deep too I believe. I have one that had a crack in it if you know a tug guy.. also the truck it came out of blew all kinds of oil into it. but it's a solid unit. too bad you aren't closer. 

I hope I'm right on the turbos. I'm hoping the PPump you sold was a 94, and my original findings are validated. hahah. I'll see if I can get a pic of my tag when I get back. my dads didn't have tag on it, and it's not waste gated. but has 8 blades and is definitely larger than the baby H1C that came off my 89. I know mine spools to 34 psi in 2nd with an unknown age or mileage torque converter.. hahah
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 12:25:27 PM
Did a quick search and found 2 for $200 each. Waiting on replies now. Heck if I can get $100 for each of my HC1s I break even.

What you did they change flange sizes? I see the later years have a single inlet and the early like mine have a split.

For the IC I am limited on depth and like to stay around 2 in. I still have to relocate 2 smaller coolers when I do that. 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 12:33:25 PM
 I THINK the flange on mine is split. the guy I bought it from said I needed to open the waste gate and drill out the divider with a slightly smaller drill bit bc it only waste gates on 3 cylinders if you don't.. I didn't bc I have the waste gate shut down. (which I would recommend.. adjustable boost elbow. has a 'set screw' to adjust how much vacuum is pulled to actuate the gate. pretty simple $15 part) my dads doesn't have a gate.. so it's shorter front to back than a gated one. also, looked at the 2nd gen ones.. they're about 2" deep. we got a universal IC that's 31" long (outlet to outlet) x 13x3" with all sorts of couplers and piping to get it in and out nicely. I think the 2nd gen is around 17" tall..
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 12:53:02 PM
Yep, plan on the elbow but want to keep boost to 30psi so I don't have to stud it.

That second gen might work but I hear the SD is better, but not there yet. I will have to compare for sure.

I just scored a HX35w on CL for 220 shipped. Think thats pretty good. Love all the guys who upgrade and dump their good parts. Fairly certain I need a 90 turn down for it, but a long way from seeing the clearance issue in mine vs all the others I have read about.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 01:46:25 PM
what 90 turn down are you talking about..? the elbow off the turbo itself? you don't have one on your engine and/or the one you just nabbed? I've seen them.. but they were about $75 a piece..
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 03:05:32 PM
I have what looks like a 75 now but think I need a 90. Time will tell.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 03:21:04 PM
should be fine with that. I would get a 2nd gen intake though, either from a cummins or decent 3" pipe aftermarket unit to replace the older 1st gen intake. just increase some airflow. since yours already came from an IC'd truck, your throttle bracket isn't attached to the intake horn.. so that eliminates another piece you'd have to track down. hahah. if you don't want to buy an intake, with some simple hardware and fab skills, you can easily thrown together a flange and weld on a 3" curved piece that will be perfect. the 2nd gen hot and cold air pipes are 3". if you can find an IC with pipe and couplings included.. that'll be your best bet. if almost bet $$ that the engine bay of your 'burb and my 1st are the same size.. meaning the piping would fit on yours just like mine.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 05:22:07 PM
I will get a nice full flow intake horn. Same thing Don did later to his when he was prodded earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 06:50:23 PM
So how about we get a motor recipe going here. 92 6BT VE with intercooler, automatic w/od, 4.11 gears, 36 in tires. As it sits it is bone stock, but that will not do. I do not want to go crazy either. I have a 3200 spring and fuel pin on the way.

Thinking of a HX35w keeping the boost to 30psi. (other ideas?)

Injectors vs nozzles?

Other ideas?

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 07:51:21 PM
I think you're on the right path with the spring and pin. can easily bump the timing a hair by rotating the VE on the timing covering housing. I think I heard that the non IC injectors are alittle more HP than the stock IC injectors. or you could go with 370 marine ones. don't know how crazy you're trying to go. mine pulls pretty hard, and like I said it had a TC of unknown age as well as 3.07s.. so your gearing and TC alone will make it night and day different. IF you can find one.. a 94/95 47rh will be even sweeter on the hwy with the locking TC and the tcase and all will fit right on it. you can build it with the 46 just fine and be looking for a 47rh. it will only add roughly 1" to your total drivetrain (thicker engine adapter) but that can happen later down the road. and the transfer case spline coupler will fit the trans and can keep the rear output seal if you machine down the forward 1-1.5" of the coupler. I'll get pics and specs of that once I get back home.) just a thought..
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 10, 2016, 09:47:12 PM
I have both the adapters and starters. If I go to another tranny though it would be the 48 converted to a "H"

New injectors are only about 100 more than injectors and then you know they are all good.

Not looking for crazy, just very solid. However, when I push the go peddle, scary can be fun.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 11:31:35 PM
is that possible..? 48 to an H? I thought you'd have to replace the valve body and overdrive unit. seemed more feasible to just overbuild the 47 to take anything the 48 could take..?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 10, 2016, 11:32:38 PM
..and I have a mustang for 'scary when you press the go pedal'. hahah
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 12:03:07 AM
Just as the 47 is better than the 46, same for the 48 to 47. And the internals are better. OD is done with a pressure switch and relay, info on a few sights.

Last quote I got was around 4k for the 48!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 12:21:43 AM
I found all that info.. but thought it pertained to the 47 only. interesting. I picked up a 47 in NY that supposedly only has 10k miles from dodge for $800. and another with unknown mileage for $400 in Maryland. I think I may have a problem.. hahah
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 12:26:43 AM
Perhaps it is as you say, it has been awhile since I did all the research. Upgrading the internals is the big $$ for the billet shaft and gears that go with it.

Sounds like with those trannys you need more vehicles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 10:46:29 AM
Perhaps it is as you say, it has been awhile since I did all the research. Upgrading the internals is the big $$ for the billet shaft and gears that go with it.

Sounds like with those trannys you need more vehicles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

it might be.. just didn't want to step on any toes. hahah. from what I gathered the 47RHs can be made as strong as any 48 without the hassle of a TCM and can still be controlled with either 2 pressure switched for LU and OD or pactrans (I think) makes a stand alone controller for LU and OD for maybe $2-300. which in the event of an EMP strike, could easily be taken out and substituted for toggle or pressure switches for full control (Don) but you'd still have 1, 2 and 3 just like an old 727..
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 11, 2016, 01:12:41 PM
Perhaps it is as you say, it has been awhile since I did all the research. Upgrading the internals is the big $$ for the billet shaft and gears that go with it.

Sounds like with those trannys you need more vehicles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
That is a fact!
Going to all billet on the inside of mine in square D tripled the cost of the build!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 02:12:53 PM
Perhaps it is as you say, it has been awhile since I did all the research. Upgrading the internals is the big $$ for the billet shaft and gears that go with it.

Sounds like with those trannys you need more vehicles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
That is a fact!
Going to all billet on the inside of mine in square D tripled the cost of the build!

and yet.. sadly.. it had no effect on its ability to perform  :'(

sorry don.. just had to do it. hahah
 now.. back to the previously scheduled show.

(and get that fuel pressure up.. I wanna a hear it run  ;D)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 02:18:16 PM
What, Don has a truck to get running?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 02:19:32 PM
My turbo deal fell through so may hold off for now. I keep reading on either upgrading the the HC1 or going HX35.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 02:40:47 PM
best part is.. you can build it like it is and when you find a 35.. just swap it right out. all your plumbing will be correct and if it's a waste gated 35.. it'll only push the downpipe back an inch or so. but yours may be waste gated alread.. I which case it shouldn't do anything to it. try and find a whole parts truck the guy is just offloading and grab from the turbo to the intake from it. should be cheaper than piecing together a whole setup. unless you need to get a smaller IC. what other coolers are you having to run..? power steering and AC condenser?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 03:48:26 PM
I have another I was looking at. Still not bad at $250, but think I can get it a little less. Downpipe is no issue, don't have one yet.

AC will stay as it is, the PS and Oil can be adjusted,,,,,,,,,,,

Kinda why I want a PS cooler vs a dodge as I think it is slimmer.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on February 11, 2016, 03:59:05 PM
Gee ya all are busy LoL....

Don't take any advice from me:

Turbo: S300....On a heavy Auto truck I'd likely run a 52mm wheel...it will kill a HX 35 in how it drives/performs. You can go larger, but it's enough turbo for 400hp. Set the gate to 40psi and motor along happily.

Injectors: Well everyone has an approach, and some work better than others in combinations. I'd run OEM until it became obvious your needing more fuel. My guess you won't.

The PS cooler is the best option for a 4x4 durability wise. It also seems to outflow the 2nd gen airflow wise in my experiments. The trade off, is it's not as good at scrubbing EGT's, but less than a 100 degree difference on the same combination. Likely because it flows the air faster, less time to cool it....I have no idea which fits the Chevy best.

Intake/exhaust flow...this is where the VE can really be massaged. Much of the HP increase you see in sec gen trucks from the factory was the better intake horn/intercooler/than the 1st gen stuff. Pay close attention to air flow into/through/out like any other engine. This is cheap/easy HP and as a bonus your "on throttle" time extends as well.  People have made 500hp with a OEM 2nd gen intake horn as an example...simple is cheap/works.

Pump tuning... well this is a variable as each is a bit different.

Auto tranny: I'd not spend much for the lock up features personally. Nor would I spend much on bulletproof Billet components. A stock rebuild of a 518 with your normal HD upgrades found in latter year transmissions combined with a quality converter will be just fine. If you need more transmission than that, you should rethink how you drive/use the truck. I have about killed the present trans in Patch and it's got over 100K of towing stupid heavy trailers, getting constantly stuck in mud and snowplowing, oh and some truck pulling. I  am sure I do more terrible stuff to my truck in a week than most could in a year...and I have no problems with transmissions. Just make sure it stays cool...and has big fat 1/2 cooler lines and motor along. This assumed you have a properly rebuilt 518 =P

With a auto trans/4.10's and a 35" tire (goodyear mil rubber is 35" actual) your going to be fine. You may sacrifice some economy due to the 4.10's but it's a wash as 3.54's and a auto with 35" is a bit tall for stop/n go city stuff...so yah. Especially in a fat Burb. Pay CLOSE attention to selecting a converter that is not "too tight" The OEM Dodge is slightly "too loose"

It's a VE: You have a big large bill board of a truck. It will NOT win drag races against modern diesels. It will not smoke the tires off with a AUTO and that weight. It will not get 25mpg, and it will not be any fun if you build/treat it like a P pump. What it will do is provide smooth reliable "working" HP at levels that may surprise you, while managing decent economy for your combination.

Just remember, Dyno numbers mean almost nothing. You can't drive a truck WOT in one gear for a few seconds and describe it as a functional truck.

I recently pulled a trailer about 9500lbs up a MT pass at 60mph while getting passed by modern oil burners pulling lighter snowmobile trailers. But nearing the top they were all slowed down I am guessing EGT warnings going off on their fancy Aluminum engines. I just looked at my Pyro hovering at 1200 smiled and drove around them...I had been at 1200 for 20 minutes. That's "workable" power. It's how I feel any VE should be tuned...





















 

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 04:07:15 PM
I'll gladly now out..  ;) hahah
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 06:24:52 PM
Norm, just some of the info I wanted to hear about. Sean, don't go anywhere, the more the merrier!! Your talk of how you like the VE and Dons issues made me go back to the VE. In fact I was a little setback when I did get rid of the first one and been looking for that deal when this popped up.

As said I am not looking for a hot rod by any means, but do want it to go when told to do so. Plus I like the idea of keeping my 46, just building it up.

Actually I think the 80s GM truck are quite clean for a squared off design and I love the classic look.

Has it stopped snowing there yet?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
I'm guessing this 'Sean' you're referring to is me. not that I care.. but my name is Seth. hahah. just so long as I know what I'm going by.. I'm good. hahah

having the VE in a running truck, I'm sayinf it's great. the PPump is running just fine under no load, but haven't really put it through its paces either. Im going to push my dad into having the trans looked at before it goes in the truck. just bc I don't want to have to pull it back out again once it's in there.. easier now than ever.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 11, 2016, 06:37:48 PM
and I badly want to have an old square body crew cab. either that, or if I can get my hands on a 1st gen crew cab..

first and foremost.. just need to get back home and crackin on the 715.9 wagladiator..
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on February 11, 2016, 08:01:45 PM
Yah it hasn't snowed in a few days. Now it's 40 degrees and mud everywhere. It's thawing so fast my driveway is "gone" I'd have to winch to get to the shop and that's not a exaggeration. 50 degrees Sunday they claim...I have just accepted I will be buying $4k worth of rock/gravel to fix this mess.

I think be it P pump or VE if one falls into the trap of "dyno tunes/combinations" one can build himself a rather expensive headache.

I often explain to people, it makes no difference what pump you run.... a engine can only process fuel/air as good as it's components allow. A P pump has as much fuel as you want to tune it for...but you will have to tune to the limits of yr head/turbo and over all combination. A VE pump may not as easily produce the fueling, but the same rules apply in either direction. The engines use the same basic head/bottom end and components....Where the VE has an edge I feel is drive-ability coupled with simplicity.

If one was to use a analogy...the VE is a lot like a Quadrajet or a Thermoquad.. both excellent carbs, both require a understanding to make them work as well as they can. Once dialed in, they are hard to improve on in a daily driven vehicle. The P pump is like a old double pumper Holly...They always win on a dyno or a straight line drag race...they don't always win while cruising around the A&W AND going fast.

see it's simple=)







Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on February 11, 2016, 09:12:53 PM
Now that's an analogy I've used before! (Qjets vs Holley)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on February 11, 2016, 09:26:14 PM
Another thing our youth is missing out on. Trying to get a Holley to run on a cold morning going to work. Nothing like sitting along side the road with the hood up, air cleaner off & numb fingers..... ;)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on February 11, 2016, 10:45:39 PM
^and the extra jets in the glove box when it was really bad!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on February 11, 2016, 10:49:05 PM
I knew someone besides me had been there....... ;D
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 11, 2016, 11:26:36 PM
Sorry about that Seth, took a wild shot and missed,,,,,,,,,,

Good analogy, I loved the quadrajet!! It even worked on hills really well.

Think I would rather have snow or rain, I hate the sludge that morphs from snow melting.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 12, 2016, 07:19:44 AM
Try a triple duce set-up, with vacuum actuated secondaries!  Voodoo plain and "simple"......
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on February 12, 2016, 09:03:27 AM
Oh yeah.... NOTHING runs like a Mopar six pack when it's tuned and working as it should. Mind you that's not as often as one would like LoL  But the sound of those vac operated outboard carbs opening and the wail of a well tuned wedge at WOT are things no man should miss experiencing in my opinion.

To that end just recently I vowed to build a six pack wedge for my personal amusement, and continuing education of my Grandsons. I after all have to do my part in educating our youth.

Besides I can justify this, as those old six packs when properly tuned were even semi economical to drive. Unless you drive like Kurt does...A truck he's owned since new, and drives daily as a work truck. 500ci six pack commuter LoL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly_whk7Ixaw&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly_whk7Ixaw&feature=youtu.be)



Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 12, 2016, 10:46:30 AM
Sorta like the quad with its vacuum secondaries and small primaries.

I used to tick off bobtail drivers and bend the tab out of the way that unlocked the secondaries. Truck ran fine but they couldn't blow it up.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 12, 2016, 07:31:25 PM
Norm, you telling me you have a Max Wedge in one of those sheds?  Intake and exhaust manifolds?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on February 12, 2016, 10:18:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if he has more than one!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 13, 2016, 09:53:04 AM
If so, he's an owner of Unicorns............
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 13, 2016, 11:27:43 AM
If so, he's an owner of Unicorns............
I actually saw one of those cross ram 2-4bbl manifolds for sale once...only once. And I was like 18 years old.

Rare almost isn't a strong enough word!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on February 13, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
I typed a explanation, a story, it was long and made me look like a hoarder LoL So... lets just go with this.  "Yes Sir"
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: BobbyB on February 13, 2016, 11:38:38 AM
made me look like a hoarder LoL

Norm, you said before you needed to clean out the barn, but decided to instead build a new one or add on to it since it was easier. You've been covered since then. lol
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 13, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
I typed a explanation, a story, it was long and made me look like a hoarder LoL So... lets just go with this.  "Yes Sir"
Hey, I believe it!

If you say you have a max wedge, I'm on board.

Hey you own a bomb from WWII, and the coolest trucks this side of the Rockies...I'm sure you have one (Or two!)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 13, 2016, 12:19:22 PM
I typed a explanation, a story, it was long and made me look like a hoarder LoL So... lets just go with this.  "Yes Sir"

You are now re-named "OldkooL-T" owner of Unicorns, charmer of Dragons........I would love to gaze upon such a rarity in person - bucket list material for a former owner of Mopar specialties!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on February 13, 2016, 02:11:15 PM
Keep an eye on my projects threads this summer...I will see what I can do. I received a phone call last month from my old HS girlfriend first love of my life. I briefly owned a 69Z28 DZ 302 car, I was 16 or so. It was slow...like really not fun to drive. My winter car was a 6pak Runner at the time, and compared to that, the Camaro was like driving a Prius. So when I declared I was selling the albatross for $3000 with it's fresh and improved, but still too slow 350, she bought it. She drove it to College and then it got parked when she got married and had kids.

So turns out her husband is kinda cool and decided to do a first class OEM style restoration on it for her. I guess he mentioned he wished they could track down the original engine for it...So here is how the call went... talk about off topic, sorry JR.

He calls me" You don't know me but I married Jean. (my heart freezes fearing bad news, I only know one Jean I cared for deeply) So she still has the Camaro and we just finished the body on a rotisserie and I mentioned to Jean I wished we had the original engine.  She is nuts but she thinks you still have it so that's why I called. Me: put her on the phone please. So I ask her why she thinks I still have the engine? She ignores me and says she will pay me whatever I want, could she please buy it back. (notice she ignored my question?)

Anyway, I told her she could have it back, it belongs in the car for old times sake. And if she kept the car this long, well least I can do. She starts crying and puts her husband back on the phone. I agreed to disassemble my carefully arranged storage plan, find the crate it's in and hand deliver it by the end of June. (translation...I saw it when we moved here, it's in the hanger somewhere) I know it's worth a small fortune considering the #'s matching aspect of a DZ car these days....but my memory of her buying that car, challenging me to a race she couldn't win, and listening to her power shift that M22 just how I taught her.... well worth it.

Still have no idea why she was so sure I still owned that engine, I think my wife squeezed. She went to my last class reunion without me...long story LoL






Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 13, 2016, 02:20:53 PM
NO problem Norm. Car and girlfriend stories always welcome.

Besides I will be bugging you more about my setup soon enough (engine, not girlfriend)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on February 13, 2016, 03:07:34 PM
Hot Roddin love story!

Neighbor across the street as a completely original 1969 DZ302 Z28. Hugger orange, black vinyl roof, chambered exhaust...original paint...dealer installed 4.56 gears!
Has around 30,000 miles on it. I've ridden around with him. And yep, its slow.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Wilbur on February 13, 2016, 05:21:17 PM
#'s matching is important for sure!

DOT on:
I grew up with a kid who's Dad restored cars. They used to take trips out west and he would scour barns and other places for cars that had been parked for years. He found a '56 or '57 T-Bird convertible on one of the trips...painted black. He bought it as it had all original metal and something ridiculous like 10,000 miles on it. The guy had bought it for his wife and she didn't like the color so he painted it black. She drove it for a few years then put it in the barn and there it stayed until my friends Dad found it and bought it. When he got it back to his shop he ran the numbers....turns out it was pretty rare. The original color was a puke green. The mix of options, color and engine made it one of some very limited number made just like it and of which there were only something like 3 still in existence. He did a frame off restoration using all original colors, etc. When I was in HS he had taken something ridiculous like 25 or 30 1st places in a row with it at shows. He was offered all kinds of money for it but would never sell it. They do cars for Concours Elegance shows etc.
DOT off.... ;)

It's no wonder your old gf wanted the original engine! I wonder if she sells it! ha.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on February 13, 2016, 05:46:49 PM
I am kinda wondering also what will happen to the car. But I suppose she's kept it this long she will likely keep it. Either way, the engines going back where it belongs. What was once a slow and maddening Camaro, is now a part of history...it should be preserved.

Interesting story Wilbur... here is another. Back in the day my Grandpa bought my Grandmother a brand new special order Hudson Hornet convertible. He ordered it from his Brother a Hudson dealer/truckstop/lumberyard owner. Special order canary yellow with all the Hudson speed parts available in the day. I guess it was fast fast fast for those days. Anyway she hated the yello and he traded it in for a black sedan. My great uncle could not sell that yellow car, and it was stored in the defunct lumber yard years latter with 15K miles on it. When he died about 92 ish I was overseas and learned they sold the car for scrap for $145

In Dec I learned a fella has a un-restored yellow Hudson Hornet Vert with every option known and Hudson factory speed parts on it... has to be the same car. But I can't get him to agree to a price close to sanity for a car that will require $40k to restore. But I am keeping track of it...just in case. Along with a unrecorded Model J I know of, and some others that would make retirement more interesting.













Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Wilbur on February 13, 2016, 06:02:33 PM
Those look like cool cars! I hope you are able to do something with it. That would be neat especially given the history.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 13, 2016, 10:14:59 PM
I have 2 friends here with older camaros that are nice. I never got into the older cars much and wish I had for what they are worth now.

Funny story, the Sheriff I worked for had a camaro that would not run right. Looked at it and he had turned the carb stud all the way down into the float! At least it was a plastic float for an easy fix.

Another story in my youth (those years we want to forget often) was late 60s mustang we found up in the mountains when 4 wheeling. Was a straight 6 and I hated fords so we pushed it over a ledge nearby.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 14, 2016, 04:54:04 AM
OK, so looking into intercoolers and turbos. Also for info as I have to pass good ol Kali smog rules once, I will probably run it stock, then add the upgrades.

I have found superduty IC (99-03) for just over $200 and hear they work good.

Also hear the dodge IC from 94-99 work well but are a little small. Even the 1st gens work but smaller.

Does anyone have real sizes for these? Hopefully Norm can help with the dodge unit.

Plus with staying with a OEM cooler I can always find another if needed.

Probably go with the S300 (borg-warner?) but need to know more specs on it. Priced about the same as the HX35 but someone here tells me it is better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norm, just reread your "guess" post on the previous page. I like it more the second time around with what I wrote above.

So SD IC, intake and timing. Turbo after it is a "diesel" in Ca.

But, I would like to smoke the tires sometimes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ;D

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 29, 2016, 02:58:16 AM
As I am moving about some now, I searched CL and found a full rear interior, 3rd seat with belts and a Hydroboost about an hour away. In the right color and good shape for a 25 year old sub. He had on built up too with a 60 front, 56 front springs and H1 tires on dually hubs. Looked nice.

Guy was cool and tore it all out as I was there cept for the boost, so I got all the trim and screws to mount it up easier.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 29, 2016, 07:41:21 AM
Good Score!

So are you up to that level of work now...Healing apparently going quite well it seems!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 29, 2016, 10:17:00 AM
Good Score!

So are you up to that level of work now...Healing apparently going quite well it seems!

It is more than a stumble than a walk. But have cleaned the garage some, done an oil change and broke in my new Gen (review to follow). Still have the brace for another 2 weeks.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on April 29, 2016, 11:45:41 AM
Good score JR.... and keep on letting it heal. Soon you will be skipping rope
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 25, 2016, 09:01:36 PM
Well, went down to DMV and found I had neglected the tags. Got nailed for $180. Thought it was on No-opp, my fault.

Grabbed a set of used locking hubs as I don't trust the auto hubs and the stock front axle will be on at least for a few more months. Need to put the new rear springs on and add a leaf to the front just for driving around while I prep the new axles. When they go on it go up good and even found a raised steering arm to keep geometry sane until the x over is fit.

Getting back into working on stuff but need to flip the blazer first. Got a rear window solenoid for it today at the pick n pull to open the back without a key. Have to drive it a little more to pass smog.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 25, 2016, 09:11:23 PM
Also, thanks to a new member I have my high mount AC parts on order for the 6bt swap. Gotta love it here!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cj7ox on June 03, 2016, 04:34:01 PM
Glad to hear you're back to working on the old girl!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 03, 2016, 05:55:11 PM
Even though I am thinking this will be a fall/winter project, I like getting parts before hand.

Here is what I am looking at. The thermo housing is the question now as mine turns in and I want to mount the tensioner there.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: rpar86 on June 03, 2016, 07:50:34 PM
I think you uploaded a bad pic there JR... tried multiple times to view, nothing works.

Edit a day later... can see it on my phone now no problem.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on June 04, 2016, 12:06:54 PM
Even though I am thinking this will be a fall/winter project, I like getting parts before hand.

Here is what I am looking at. The thermo housing is the question now as mine turns in and I want to mount the tensioner there.
JR, those housings come in different configurations. Can you remember when I had to source one from a man in the Canada? He has ton's of those little hard to find parts. I had to change directions on my water outlet and he had my part.

No, I can't recall his name. Probably buried back in part 5 or part 6...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 04, 2016, 03:30:02 PM
Thx. Need to look.when it all gets here.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on June 05, 2016, 07:40:10 PM
Also, thanks to a new member I have my high mount AC parts on order for the 6bt swap. Gotta love it here!!

No problem buddy, Ill ship them out tomorrow when I get back to work.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cj7ox on June 06, 2016, 09:24:20 AM
Lookin' good, JR!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 26, 2016, 02:54:25 AM
Thanks to Lane these showed up Friday. I still believe I will need a new upper thermo housing to run the pulley's as I want.

Now I need the compressor and alt to go with this
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on June 26, 2016, 09:14:04 AM
Ooh. I love new parts. Can't wait to see the progress


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on June 26, 2016, 11:39:18 AM
Nice...

I never thought about buying new castings for my 6BT project

I feel so dumb...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on June 26, 2016, 06:28:16 PM
Well whatever you guys need just let me know.

JR what t-stat housing do you need?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 27, 2016, 12:33:23 AM
Fairly sure it is this one showing these 3 numbers. 5257270 3914409 3285102

Looks to be listed for a 4bt but it goes up vs forward. Not sure but maybe the neck is a tad smaller too so it might match my radiator house size.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on September 07, 2016, 12:14:18 AM
I am redoing my builds so I have the time and the ROOM to work on this right. So the plan goes like this;

Getting Spartan running again (new dist and TBI) going on. Add axles and such as times allows to make room for things.

Finish the 1500 off and get it sold. Sorta need Spartan for this as the wiring is the same and that is the issue the 1500.

During this I will put the bumpers and the lift I have on the Dmax (including gears and looking like coilovers in the front). Just to much clutter around to work on things.

Selling the Sami at the same time for the room and $$ flow. I have a few K in into this with many spare parts, should sell good here.

Then the El Camino will get the 5.3 swap along with the 4 wheel disc and front end rebuild. I have everything for this on the engine stand I need for the cummins, (plus a few more boxes) so it makes sense.

Then all I will have is the cummins to swap into a solid truck with room to work. Right now I can see less than 1/2 of the garage floor and I just cleaned! I also need to get the compressor outside (thats the 5.3 on the engine stand)

Oh, and during this I am building a room upstairs. Then the kitchen and all new floors. Basically I do dad things and the house during the day, auto at night.

I have also promised the boys a treehouse. So yesterday I cut the frame out for the floor and bought 3/4x12 lags today to bolt it up. Now I have to make brackets for the lags. Goes here in the front yard, but the tree has grown out more now.

You know, I had more time and $$$ when I worked,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on September 14, 2016, 01:11:31 AM
Found a Edelbrock TBI intake. So with that, the cleaned up TBI and new 65lb injectors it should do nicely. I was thinking cam too, but really don't want to dig into it that much.

I may wait a little on the rear springs and do the shackle flip first.

I want to drop the tank for a new pump (possibly tank after I look into it) for a new fuel pump. The TBI spring is 16-18 lbs so I need more than a 12-14psi stock pump and who knows how long it has been in there!

I am just going to add a leaf to front for now to level it out. Then brace up the frame around the steering box. When I put the 60 in, I will move the axle forward an inch with a new front mount. Adding the bumper and winch to that should make the front very solid.

OK, back to garage cleaning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: husker77c on September 29, 2016, 11:30:34 PM
Don't know if you figured out the thermostat housing yet but mine pointed forward in the dodge configuration.  The place I got most of my adapter parts at had a straight up housing I bought. 

Did some digging.  Here it is. 

https://www.dieselconversion.com/water-neck-assembly-128.html (https://www.dieselconversion.com/water-neck-assembly-128.html)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on September 30, 2016, 12:09:16 AM
thx
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on October 23, 2016, 03:15:09 PM
If I didn't have everything I would have jumped on this;

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6B
Post by: swbhobie16 on October 23, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
yep.. that would be in the driveway.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on November 18, 2016, 06:31:15 PM
Still haven't finished the garage. I get it cleaned a little and start something new!

Got the treehouse frame up but still need to finalize the bracing. It all sits to one side but it held in with two 3/4 bolts. Got 1 inch treated ply for the floor today.


Well, got the top end pulled off of Spartan and a new cam in hand for it. More sludge in there than I like but I have seen worse. Bumping up the cam a couple steps, new roller chain and the edelbrock intake should works well with the new exhaust. Even found a NOS chip for it for $20 on fleabay.

So doing the basics with the cam. Waterpump, hoses, fluids and some cam break in additive. New oil doesn't have the zinc that old oil does so this should help. Going to run diesel oil also with is better for the flat tapped cam (zinc)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on November 20, 2016, 11:08:49 AM
Treehouse/Surburban build thread...I can see it!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on November 20, 2016, 12:49:59 PM
Well, it does need a roof rack,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on November 20, 2016, 02:06:24 PM
Clever!!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on December 22, 2016, 12:15:03 PM
Finished getting the top sanded down to almost bare metal. Still had a few very minor dings with spider rust, but the clean-prep took care of most of that. Rattle canned summit etching primer for some protection.

Now I have those 3 antenna holes to deal with. Think I will keep the front, plug the center and keep the last for wiring. Center one actually came apart when sanding around so just taped off for now. Then there is the dent still that bent the crossmember,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: OldKooT on December 22, 2016, 01:02:56 PM
Looks much better. As for the dent... just lift it enough no one can see it. Roof rack and again...not noticeable maybe?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 22, 2016, 01:05:50 PM
You should mount all kinds of antennas on it. Dark tinted windows. People will start to question the vehicles purpose. Secret service?  Nah, too old.  Dea? Maybe. ICE?  No way not in California.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cj7ox on December 22, 2016, 01:56:16 PM
You should mount all kinds of antennas on it. Dark tinted windows. People will start to question the vehicles purpose. Secret service?  Nah, too old.  Dea? Maybe. ICE?  No way not in California.

Men in Black? Let the search for laws breaking aliens begin! LOL
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on December 22, 2016, 02:15:51 PM
You should mount all kinds of antennas on it. Dark tinted windows. People will start to question the vehicles purpose. Secret service?  Nah, too old.  Dea? Maybe. ICE?  No way not in California.

Men in Black? Let the search for laws breaking aliens begin! LOL

just need TLJ and a neurolizer! hahah
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cj7ox on December 22, 2016, 03:31:55 PM
You should mount all kinds of antennas on it. Dark tinted windows. People will start to question the vehicles purpose. Secret service?  Nah, too old.  Dea? Maybe. ICE?  No way not in California.

Men in Black? Let the search for laws breaking aliens begin! LOL

just need TLJ and a neurolizer! hahah

 ;D
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on December 22, 2016, 05:54:24 PM
Worst of all

White Christian homophobic Islamophobe looking to witness to some people.

Get in fast, say the word, then if needed, can fight his way out!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 20, 2017, 01:07:40 PM
Plugged a few holes on the body, the big antenna and logo holes.

Used a copper plate behind the logo holes so the fill just filled. Attached to a bar and stuck it behind the fender.

Put a plate behind the antenna hole and used a magnet to hold it in, then tacked the holes. Filled the center with another plate so little fill is used.

Nice layer of etching primer showed a couple pin holes, so I followed up with body putty. 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on February 20, 2017, 01:29:12 PM
Welding to sheet metal is an art I am not great at, but make do.

Still have the 1 antenna hole (of 3) to go on the roof. Leaving front one for an, antenna and using a rubber plug for the other to run electrical.

I wanted to run to PNP today (1/2 price) but the rain is saying no. Wanted a 3 more bows for the interior roof. (glory hole is 2 feet over the top)

If the rain will give me a break I can get this running, then get the 1500 ready to sell. I just saw another go for 4500 on ebay that was 2 wheel drive and had more miles!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 01, 2017, 01:58:43 AM
Threw a little white primer on the welds and painted the drivers wheels. The stock caps look ok after a little massaging.

Found the right rear door is sprung, hinge pulled.

Youngest and I pulled the crank pulley, damper comes tomorrow as we had scout tonite.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 15, 2017, 03:16:56 AM
Was cleaning the valley and my abb's were saying hello, so I got this from Summit; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/txn-3-700

Had a $25 coupon and found it for $269 on Carid, so with price matching, $242  :beercheers:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Sammconn on March 15, 2017, 08:58:22 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cruizng on March 15, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
JR, Sweet buy at a discount!

You seem to be getting around really good. Is you foot fully repaired and doing well?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 15, 2017, 11:23:19 AM
I have had my eye on one of those for sometime. Last night working made my mind up. It is also machine for a roller cam, but not sure I'm going there for a temp motor.

I am so much better, thanks. As for 100% no. Still have numbness on the right foot and have not regained the flexiblity I had nor muscle tone.

I am not a gym guy but now that the weather has turned the projects are here and should address the later.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 17, 2017, 11:47:19 PM
This thing done get?

Sorry I've been AWOL

Lane
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 18, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
Hey Lane, thought of you looking over the parts. I had some surgery which slowed me down but back up now.

Right now I am doing a little RR on the SBC as I clear up a couple things around here so I can drive it.

This will help out and just came in;
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 18, 2017, 08:25:30 AM
^^^What is that, JR?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 18, 2017, 09:33:04 AM
appears to be an elevated, assisted horizontal motion device one uses on hard surfaces to glide under inoperable vehicles to examine leaks that will ever get fixed and parts that need to be but won't be replaced  :grin:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on March 18, 2017, 10:12:45 AM
appears to be an elevated, assisted horizontal motion device one uses on hard surfaces to glide under inoperable vehicles to examine leaks that will ever get fixed and parts that need to be but won't be replaced  :grin:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 18, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
appears to be an elevated, assisted horizontal motion device one uses on hard surfaces to glide under inoperable vehicles to examine leaks that will ever get fixed and parts that need to be but won't be replaced  :grin:

change the under to over and your close
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 18, 2017, 11:36:49 PM
Well, broke the youngest in with pulling the cam today. First we finished the upper creeper ( http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=2761.new#new )

and the youngest gave it a thumbs UP.

Then he did pretty good pulling the lifters and I only had to help with 3 (which were a bare to get out).

Then we found even with pulling the AC cond the cam needed another inch. So I simply cut a center radiator support and will weld back when done.

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 18, 2017, 11:40:33 PM
No pic of it but he got to do his first cam drop. Clean brake in the center was the result, he was happy.

Wish I had a nice roller cam for this since its machined for it. But this is a short term fix for more grunt that is ECM and valve train friendly.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 19, 2017, 04:33:34 PM
JR,

What parts ya needin bud?

Lane
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 19, 2017, 06:32:12 PM
I need time right now more than anything. Finally working on it again after dumping a few other projects and realigning others. I am getting this running now then bringing the motor in for the RR before it goes in.

Only thing I really need to source will be the upper themo neck like in post 473. I like that setup.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 21, 2017, 07:06:45 PM
first number
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tlane3546/20170321_172704.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/tlane3546/media/20170321_172704.jpg.html)

second number
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tlane3546/20170321_172759.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/tlane3546/media/20170321_172759.jpg.html)

third number seems to be the correct one to the pic you posted
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tlane3546/20170321_172900.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/tlane3546/media/20170321_172900.jpg.html)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 21, 2017, 09:14:30 PM
Wow, your good. Think my vin is here somewhere too, but here is what I have now. And pretty much where I want to go.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 21, 2017, 09:16:40 PM
SO from that looks like pic number 1.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 21, 2017, 11:33:28 PM
So the top pic is yours now? What housing did i send you?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 21, 2017, 11:48:26 PM
The top pic is on the motor now, I didn't get a new one yet. I got a lower and other parts from you per the Doomsday build info.

The lower pic is the gen arm I have and shows the thermo going up, the direction I'm need hopefully.

I think it is part # 3914409 per an EBay listing.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 22, 2017, 10:01:33 AM
Ok, ill get you a price
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 22, 2017, 11:09:36 AM
Anyone have a GM 2500/3500 CV outer or the whole shaft? Looking to mod my engine stand and need that for my upgrade.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 22, 2017, 02:40:59 PM
Pic number three is the one you have pictured. The fist pic i posted is not the same
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 22, 2017, 03:59:45 PM
Hard to see the 3rd pic, but lets go with it.

Any options on neck size? Stock rad has a smaller neck but adapters are easy.

thx
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 22, 2017, 07:46:09 PM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tlane3546/20170322_183413.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/tlane3546/media/20170322_183413.jpg.html)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tlane3546/20170322_183432.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/tlane3546/media/20170322_183432.jpg.html)


Boom. T-stat housing spec on the bottom pic.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 22, 2017, 11:57:15 PM
That will work.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 23, 2017, 06:39:57 PM
$62.40 without shipping bud.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2017, 12:33:02 AM
$62.40 without shipping bud.

What is that part number?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2017, 12:45:22 AM
Been finishing up the garage clean. I had really let it get bad. I can see more floor, much of the table which I moved for better access with a couple other items.

Even leveled the table (3/4 to even out the garage slope) and added a 2x4 to the center as it had sagged in the center.

Most boxes under the table are on mover dolly's. Then I hit the little parts bin!

Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2017, 12:50:32 AM
I can't explain the picture orientation but it works when blown up.

Got this far with the big SS nuts/bolts/screws/washers and a little of everything else. This little bit is going in the trash.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2017, 12:59:40 AM
With the help of a the kid across the street this 3/4 forged eye bolt found a home 25ft up.

Will use a cable to hold this end of the platform up.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2017, 09:26:11 AM
You're a great dad!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 25, 2017, 03:12:18 PM
That's a whole bowl of nutz


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Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 25, 2017, 03:23:21 PM
Yes, I believe I am,,,,,,,,,,,,

The second post  :embarrassed: working on Dons comment  :likebutton:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 26, 2017, 10:29:30 PM
Lane, this wouldn't be the same thing would it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301845102831?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 27, 2017, 02:26:14 PM
Looks like it to me.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 27, 2017, 06:52:26 PM
I have had that saved in my EBay list for awhile now. Is the part number the same or crossover?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 29, 2017, 01:11:31 AM
Anyway ordered the upper thermo housing so close to have all I need cept the engine mount and finalize the tranny (rebuild or not) and then I saw the the GM 6L90 transmission.

Has an internal PCM, tap shift and braking. Would need a couple sensors but worth a look at.

https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/automatic/6l80
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: tlane3546 on March 29, 2017, 12:17:08 PM
I would stick with something like a 47rh, non electric. And can handle the brute of the cummins. I mean, why mix a mechanical engine with electric trans. One more thing to go wrong in a  crap hits the fan situation
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 29, 2017, 12:23:29 PM
Probably right after thinking it over a little more. Not building a 500hp pulling rig.

Back to reality,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 29, 2017, 09:06:31 PM
it's what the M715.9 got. it came from dodge that way. just make sure when you go to adjust the TV cable (assuming it's a PPump) that the center of the ball where the accel cable attaches and the back of the throttle bracket where the accel cable goes through it measures 5.00"..

and.. a 23 spline NP 205 will bolt right to it provided you have the 'race track 8' to 6 bolt round adapter and a 23 spline female coupler. along with the tcase shifter lever and bracket bolt to the trans. just have to make a rod long enough to reach the front of the shift rod. boom. 4wheel  drive.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on March 30, 2017, 12:02:11 AM
I still think I want to freshen up the tranny before it goes in. I have the 205 that came mated to the trans so I am good there.

I have so many parts now about all the is left is the mount, new turbo and probably injectors.

I have a VE and intend to keep the in tank pump since they are very reliable. I will cut an access though so the pump can be changed without tank removal.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 30, 2017, 06:11:23 AM
i know diesel isn't as corrosive as gas, but will that in take pump push enough fuel to the cummins for higher RPM operation? it doesn't get much more reliable than a block driven lift pump and a 1/2" fuel line coming straight from the tank..
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 01, 2017, 11:23:20 PM
Keep thinking about using a used roller cam in this thing. Found a couple but people think they have gold. Anyone have anything?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 23, 2017, 10:58:30 PM
Well, settled om staying with the cam I have. A couple sizes up from stock but should still give me a little more umph.

So did some work on the tires/wheels. I found that 4 of the 5 still have the runflats, so something else to deal with.

Cleaned and mounted up the first one. No new O rings yet and for some reason this one is about a 1/2 inch to long. Cleaned it up, cut it and used super glue. Seemed to work OK but this is a learning experience so will redo them all later.

I used the new bead locks, which seem to be rubber horse flooring 3/4 think. Seems to push solid against the tires, but time will tell. I did change the hardware with SS locknuts and made sure a couple threads showed. I am a little concerned with the plate and think it should be SS also, why invite rust?

They seem to be a little loose so I may have to adjust the dia as they seem a little loose on the rim. They go in easy enough and I just needed to use a tire tool just a little.

I only used silicon, but think some use RTV? I used new cores and filled to 40psi.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 23, 2017, 11:05:14 PM
On the second tire I showed the boys a youtube video on removing the runflat and they were jazed. So I said lets do it! Only the youngest stuck around but we had fun and it was easy. I remember when Don tried to muscle his out so glad this worked.

Took longer to drag out the straps and tie it down. Had the youngest goop the tire up with soap, then hooked it up to the dmax. Pop and it was done.

Then for good measure he checked the H1 tire with the stock tires, he likes the size!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 23, 2017, 11:19:57 PM
On the second tire I had to do a little RR on the rim. Spent about 1/2 hr with a wire brush on a drill. Then some good ol rattle can etching primer and rustoleum 15min enamel paint. Not worried about the outside yet, but think powdercoating is in the future and maybe a rock ring.

O ring was in good shape and it got another good coat of pool silicone. A dab of antiseize on the threads and it went together after I stood on it to get a few threads going.

I got Porter Cable 20v impact about a week a go just for this. Lowes price matched it at $95 and I had the batteries, so GTG. It made short work of the nuts with the 330lbs tq.

Thought I had a picture of the finished setup, but no and now stored outside as this week is fence tearing down/building.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 24, 2017, 06:56:50 AM
Looks good JR.  What about painting the nuts on the beadlocks?


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Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cudakidd53 on April 24, 2017, 07:03:13 AM
Looking good JR - why dispose of the "run flats", weight?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 24, 2017, 08:19:16 AM
Looking good JR - why dispose of the "run flats", weight?
They are pretty heavy...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on April 24, 2017, 10:16:12 AM
I always ran mag runflats, not much weight at all.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 24, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
The runflats are not bead locks is the main reason. Plus the beadlocks do the obvious and let me inflate the tire without use of a flame!

I need to get some balance beads now. Think I need about 1.5lbs per tire and non bio degradable, right?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on April 25, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
NON biodegradable is my suggestion. I would imagine with condensation and agitation the biodegradable version would do it's job overtime inside the tire, no bueno.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 25, 2017, 01:03:57 PM
NON biodegradable is my suggestion. I would imagine with condensation and agitation the biodegradable version would do it's job overtime inside the tire, no bueno.

Yep, thats what I hear.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: cj7ox on April 27, 2017, 11:27:52 AM
Several of the guys in my 4x4 club use BBs, if you're looking for a cheap way forward, JR.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 27, 2017, 11:57:25 AM
I have thought about them, but I hear they loose the coating and rust easy.

Looking at airsoft BBs now. Real balance BBs are sold like gold!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bear9350 on April 27, 2017, 12:07:05 PM
I used steel shot from shotgun loads.  Ran them in my 03's tires for a few years.  Still looked like new when I replaced tires.  I forget what shot size I used.  I still have the remainder of the box of shells someplace I am sure I could find though.  I don't really do any waterfowl hunting so I haven't had a use for them.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on April 27, 2017, 12:13:02 PM
on that same token you could use lead shot... might deform though and bunch up I guess. I'm surprised the steel shot didn't rust up, depends on relative humidity and heating/cooling cycles I suppose. air soft bb's might require a whole lot to achieve the right weight though.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bear9350 on April 27, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
That truck was driven daily.  I figure that the constant tumbling probably kept them rust free and polished. 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 28, 2017, 02:35:47 AM
Got the cam installed today. You have all seen/done that so won't go crazy with pics.

The new impact made short work of the gear. Even had a little fire when I tried to heat the gear and all the rags caught.

Cam bearing is not the best with a little copper showing but still smooth.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on April 28, 2017, 08:04:43 AM
The runflats are not bead locks is the main reason. Plus the beadlocks do the obvious and let me inflate the tire without use of a flame!

You lost me on this JR, my runflats were beadlocks.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on April 28, 2017, 08:06:53 AM
I used steel shot from shotgun loads.  Ran them in my 03's tires for a few years.  Still looked like new when I replaced tires.  I forget what shot size I used.  I still have the remainder of the box of shells someplace I am sure I could find though.  I don't really do any waterfowl hunting so I haven't had a use for them.

You cut open good ammunition? The horror!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on April 28, 2017, 10:21:58 AM
I used steel shot from shotgun loads.  Ran them in my 03's tires for a few years.  Still looked like new when I replaced tires.  I forget what shot size I used.  I still have the remainder of the box of shells someplace I am sure I could find though.  I don't really do any waterfowl hunting so I haven't had a use for them.

You cut open good ammunition? The horror!  :popcorn:
He dug the steel and lead shot out of a perp he had just shot...Not wasted, recycled!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on April 28, 2017, 11:15:16 AM
Mine have run flats that are not bead locks. Otherwise I may have rethunk it.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 01, 2017, 01:27:21 AM
Got the fancy timing double roller from summit, set up 0-0-0. Already a low end motor.

Debating on roller tip rockers. Just $60 on ebay or swap from the elky.

Also took the kids to an RC Funfly. They built some foam gliders (Raptors) and I got them full trainers with all the gear.

Watched this foamboard Lancaster being built and fly, was cool.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 04, 2017, 12:29:29 AM
Got some new top end parts. Some of the gunk up there was really bad and this was easier than all the cleaning.

Figure with a new cam, it can't hurt plus I needed a crank socket and was under a bill for it all.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 09, 2017, 12:48:04 AM
Wow, a month since the last post here. Trying to squeeze some time in but between the last weeks of school and working with mom I have had little motivation.

Got the top end on and building a steering box brace. I'm not cheap but $130 for those braces is crazy.

Got another box from LMC working on the throttle body now. Going to mill the top some but I busted all the screws off the shaft. Tapped and heated em but they just spun the heads off. Hoping milling the shaft may loosen whats left.

I hate doing plug wires on the TBI's, they just squeeze to much in there. On a good note though I found a ground that was pinched under the valve cover.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on July 30, 2017, 06:43:53 PM
Been playing with the kids, going fishing and just trying to stay cool. Feel like I live in the desert the last couple months, a cool day was in the 90's!

Built this for the treehouse as it needs to get going too. Guess what for?

These are for dinner tonight.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: EL TATE on July 31, 2017, 01:10:01 PM
Good lookin trout there JR.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on August 18, 2017, 04:20:41 PM
Milled the upper lip off the throttle body. Still have to break the screw off the throttle shaft, milling should do it.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 27, 2018, 04:45:39 PM
Well, with the room done this is back on the table. Still a few thing to clean up and other home projects, but nothing like a 2nd story!

Near the end of the above picture the adapted fell and mucked up the TBI some, plus I never got the screw to loosen up. Ended up getting another TBI unit.

I am transferring the mill to a new drawered cabinet that fits better and allows access to the tooling vs the cabinet I have now. It is also wider allowing better protection for the mill.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bigdave_185 on May 27, 2018, 10:27:27 PM
Jr you just purchased that box right?


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Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on May 28, 2018, 12:23:02 AM
Last week at HD. Was just 350 and they knocked 25 off for a ding in the back. HVAC guy did the top for 30.

Was 24 inch deep which is hard to find so when I found this I jumped on it.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bigdave_185 on May 28, 2018, 02:04:34 AM
Looks killer!  Imagine having those lines up all nice on the back wall of the garage with one solid top!


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Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on June 06, 2018, 02:11:10 AM
Finished up.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: stlaser on June 06, 2018, 06:31:21 AM
 :likebutton:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on October 29, 2018, 01:44:36 AM
Ok, so here we go to get this running again!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on November 05, 2018, 01:57:29 PM
Another update, end goal is the same, just a different format, another sub.

I like what I have but getting it registered as a diesel in this state will be a lot of work. I have bee watching CL for months now in case a diesel sub came along that someone didn't want 5K for, was straight and close to me. So I found a couple the last week and this one sorta jumped out, then he dropped the price.

Plus by starting with a diesel reg, no smog, EVER. Plus it has hydro brakes and is supposed to be a rust free cal truck. Mine had a few spots I was not happy with but could be overcome. Heck guys drop gassers back in em but not may plan.

Going to a diff sub will cost me nothing but time. In fact I should make $$ on the deal in the long run, but thats for another post,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: wilsonphil on November 05, 2018, 03:46:18 PM
Its a sickness I tell you!!!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on November 05, 2018, 04:11:32 PM
Its a sickness I tell you!!!!

Yes it is, thank GOD!!!!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2018, 04:21:47 PM
I'm infected as well...
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bob Smith on November 05, 2018, 04:33:34 PM
Yes Don, but I hope his turns out better and faster to finish line.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on November 05, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
Just realized the diesel sub has a turbo, so a little more power is there until it comes out.

I took the side window of the 91 to fix a little rust bubble. Fairly easy with suction cups on these ol things. Found a little more rust than I was hoping for along the seam. Nut is will get treated from the inside so should be GTG.

Going to cut open an old hub for the abs ring. They run around $50 each so a little cutting could net some return.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on November 05, 2018, 07:49:02 PM
Did the 6.2 come with a turbo? Or is it a Banks?
I worked on an 85 with a Banks for the life of the vehicle ... well til the owner passed, and it was over 350k last I saw.. never been into the engine.
It was starting to lose compression which made it slow to start in the colder mornings.
Much more dependable than the 6.5s
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 05, 2018, 09:00:36 PM
My uncle put a Banks on his 6.2. Made it a whole different truck.


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Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: Bob Smith on November 05, 2018, 09:29:23 PM
Did the 6.2 come with a turbo? Or is it a Banks?
I worked on an 85 with a Banks for the life of the vehicle ... well til the owner passed, and it was over 350k last I saw.. never been into the engine.
It was starting to lose compression which made it slow to start in the colder mornings.
Much more dependable than the 6.5s

So Ken...Just what would you call a colder morning? We have had a color of snow once in Bullhead since we have been going down but it didn't last once the sun was up.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on November 05, 2018, 11:17:25 PM
Bob, I would say anything around 50% cooler than *110.  :)
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: JR on November 06, 2018, 05:01:20 AM
Will update you guys later today. Looks like it has a 6.5 TD in there. Not buying it for the motor, but am. Long as it runs OK, but then do we ever leave anything alone?
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: wilsonphil on November 06, 2018, 03:17:24 PM
Did the 6.2 come with a turbo? Or is it a Banks?
I worked on an 85 with a Banks for the life of the vehicle ... well til the owner passed, and it was over 350k last I saw.. never been into the engine.
It was starting to lose compression which made it slow to start in the colder mornings.
Much more dependable than the 6.5s

Well Ken that is do to the fact it rides nice and runs smooth, but when you only make 15HP how can anything wear out or break????
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: KensAuto on November 06, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
Hmmm. So it makes 5 more horses than a 12v?   :shocked:
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and 6BT
Post by: wilsonphil on November 06, 2018, 07:40:48 PM
Yep and it does not ride nice and runs very rough but it will be around longer than the Isuzu clone!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: KensAuto on November 07, 2018, 08:42:40 AM
Crap, can't argue that one (unless you're block cracks, or lose another pin) Lol
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: wilsonphil on November 07, 2018, 04:25:43 PM
The Bolt Ken, the bolt killed mine, the pin was fine!  Yea then they did have the block cracking issue on the Brazilian 53 blocks! 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: JR on November 10, 2018, 05:27:59 PM
I gave it up last night and brought it home. Today I started to clean it up and found out a little more.

99% sure after blowing it off I have a 92-93 6.5TD. Ran the pump numbers and came up with that. It is a mechanical pump, no PMD (problem)

Also looks to be a 200hp version, which is near the top of the heap. Has a few wiring issues, not a surprise really.

The stock lift pump is up above the motor, after the stock filter/heater which could account for hard starting.


 
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2018, 10:58:08 AM
Good research JR!
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: JR on August 22, 2019, 09:14:31 PM
Can't believe it has been idle now for almost a year, but back on this, it has to go.

So I finished cleaning the window frame up. Knocked all the spot welds down and wire brushed it.

Even though most of the rust is gone, I gave it a good dose of rust converter. Next I will spray the inside of the lip with the same, using a wand from Eastwood.

I also screwed up the TBI trying to mill the ridges off and got another off ebay. That and a new set of wires and it should run.
Title: Re: "SPARTAN" 1991 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: JR on August 23, 2019, 12:18:33 AM
Here is the window cleaned up and areas in the pillars that need repair (3 spots)

This is where I buggered up the TBI milling it  for more flow and the Holder slipped. What I get for using a drill chuck and not a collet.
Title: Re: 1991/1985 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again!
Post by: JR on October 09, 2020, 12:11:04 AM
This has been given to friend, closing topic and will try to merge the 85 build.

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=3694.0
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