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Offline husker77c

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Dana 60 issues
« on: July 21, 2015, 02:49:49 PM »
Ok so since I've been driving the F350 for the past few days I've started hearing noises.  Getting a pretty noticeable clunk in the front end mostly when turning.  I pulled over and did some checking. Mostly just grabbing parts and giving it a good shake to see if I could find the culprit.  Everything seems tight but then I grab the u joint. I can jiggle it up and down and side to side. probably around 1/8".  Also can pull it out and push it in about the same. Is that normal?  All things I know would say it isn't but I've never had a truck this old to work on and never had to deal with these issues. 

Also how does a man go about checking tie rod ends and ball joints?   The truck is prett darn smooth on the highway hardly any wobbling or anything although to look at the tie rod ends they do look pretty ragged. But all in the steering seems tight.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 03:23:14 PM »
Not normal at all

Make sure the big nut on the yoke didn't back off. It happened to me once. I used an air impact on it and just like that I was G-T-G.

Tie rid check: Jack the affected tire off the ground. While observing the tie rods, manually shove the tire in and out as in steer right, steer left. Look for movement at the tie rod itself, There should be none to very little

Ball joint: Jack up the front and place it on jacks with the front end hanging.
Place a bar or 2X4 under the tire and lift up and down. Observe for up/down movement in the ball joint socket. If you see some, buy new ball joints.
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2015, 04:49:59 PM »
So if the nut is tight I take that to mean I need new u joints in the front end?   Anything I should be looking at upgrading or preventative maintenance while I'm in there?

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2015, 05:10:55 PM »
what Don said on the pinion nut at the differential is true. Universal joints are a pretty darn tight tolerance so any movement is bad movement. I've got some spicer heavy duty joints at a discount through the RMTW site if you want to contact me directly.

For the tie rods and steering linkage, I like to leave it on the ground and have a buddy loosely turn the wheel left and right, looking for excessive movement in the linkage before the tires start to move. anything more than a little bit translates into lots of turn in the wheel before you get good response, turning it into a "two lane truck".

Do you get more noise when you are reversing and turning full lock? spider gears inside the diff could be a contributor to the noise, but I'm betting it's your loose axle universal joints binding up the inner shaft and outer stub.
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 06:30:31 PM »
Would be glad to buy the u joints from the store.  I'll need one for each side and one spare.  If you could kindly point me in the direction I need to go to give someone money I would appreciate it.  I'm thinking I'm going to get all the bearings and seals that I will come in contact with doing this repair and replace those.  It will be a good time to clean the axles up and paint them as well I think.

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 06:49:37 PM »
5-806x is the part number from spicer on the axle joints. if you're anywhere near Gretna Husker diesel I'm sure has them on the shelf. That being said, Zane at H&H Auto Salvage is good people also. at the pinion yoke, I would need to know year make model to get the right u/joint number.

5-1204x at the pinion Yoke. Went back to the Zombie thread for the details. one of those and 2 of the 5-806x and you should be golden pony boy.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 06:56:11 PM by EL TATE »
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2015, 09:19:00 PM »
Awesome man. Thanks for the help.  I'm no where near NE right now unfortunately but with the part numbers I should be able to find them without to much trouble.

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 11:07:38 AM »
Good luck and let me know if you need anything; I've got 4 warehouses spread out if you can't find em local.
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 01:31:22 PM »
El Tate.  Does spicer have or do you have an exploded view of the axle?   The pinned thread up top has the service manual with all the parts laid out but not an exploded view.  Would be helpful when it comes time to start this project.   Also are there any special tools I'm going to need?   I think I read I need an axle nut socket and I've seen references to a slide hammer.    I've gathered up info on what I believe to be every seal and bearing I need to completely refresh the outside of the axle.  What about the bushings mentioned in the pinned service manual?  Do those need to be replaced or are they re usable.   

If I'm going this far into it I want to come out of it with as close to new as I can for The project

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 01:38:48 PM »
new PDF on sticky thread x510-2ford page 22 should do you well.
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 02:37:54 PM »
I didn't even see those   ;)

Thanks again man

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 04:21:25 PM »
You're not going crazy, just put it up there after you asked for it:-)
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 06:32:49 AM »
One more question.   Should I be looking at switching to manual hubs?  What about just doing drive flanges?  35 spline upgrade?   As I said above I don't want to do this twice.

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 10:51:23 AM »
you absolutely could do that, and you'd have Don's setup on the HP d60 that he was going to transplant under C-MAX. I would lean towards the locking hubs vs the drive flanges, as they are very very strong, default to locked if they do manage to fail, and you can turn them off which is the whole point; frees up your front end reducing wear by not having it rolling all of the time. 35 spline chromoly outer stub upgrade and manual hardcore hubs is about as strong as you can get without changing the inner axles also, which is unnecessary unless you're planning on wheeling this thing hard. YA W46101 x2 on the outer stubs, and YHC70001 on the hardcore hub kit. Shoot me a PM with your email and address info, I can get you a realman quote as I have setup a wholesale club discount for the site members.

Besides the lifetime warranty on this stuff, it's like you said, you don't want to do it twice. These are the strongest axles and hubs on the market. Compare them to the classic warn stuff which we've relied on for years, their hubs weigh in at around 5lbs. The Yukons are all chromoly steel and are in the heavyweight class at almost 9lbs, but have a lower profile and don't stick out as far.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 11:38:19 AM »
Husker, you can see those hubs Tate is speaking about being installed on SquareD which Tater mentioned. He's right they are strong (looking)
Can't give you operational info about them...just yet...
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2015, 11:40:52 AM »
Can't give you operational info about them...just yet...

Well....cause you'd have to start it to do that....

Did I say that out loud?  :o

  ;D ;D

Offline Sammconn

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2015, 01:46:03 PM »
Can't give you operational info about them...just yet...

Well....cause you'd have to start it to do that....

Did I say that out loud?  :o

  ;D ;D

Yes, I believe you did. Then I quoted it. Guilty as read.  ;D
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2015, 02:57:02 PM »
Don might not be able to vouch for them personally yet, but these guys can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nz2I6fscRc most of them are running the very same that you would be getting, and those that weren't, well let's just say our guys brought a whole bunch  of them with them and came home with none. installed them right on the trail or in the pits for them as they broke their previous systems. These are all spec class ultra 4 racing cars running 37-40" tires and doing 90mph across the flat desert and racing over the rocks.
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Offline JR

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2015, 11:52:56 PM »
Not to rain on anyone's advice here, but I learned alot off the Dana 60 Bible. Hosted on another site but comes up easy in a search.

I will vouch for Tate though, if you need a part he can figure it out and get it to you fast!!
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2015, 03:52:05 AM »
^^x2. Trained myself off that as well.  Dana pdf is nice but insight from other actual techs and real installers/fabricators are invaluable.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2015, 11:13:40 AM »
^^x2. Trained myself off that as well.  Dana pdf is nice but insight from other actual techs and real installers/fabricators are invaluable.
By all means, post the link
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OldKooT

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2015, 03:12:26 PM »
I remember when Bill wrote the Dana 60 bible. I actually contributed, back when I was more social on Pirate and with people in general LoL

The Yukon hubs are considerably stronger than the Warn 35 spline stuff. I have broken many a Warn 35 spline lockout and actually I am running a set now on Anvil. I have a set of old school Spicer lockouts here that are broached for 35 spline and lived through multiple trail rigs without a failure (20 years worth). The Yukon's are similar in design to the old Spicer OEM stuff. My only issue is my wife can't easily turn the old Spicer hubs or the Yukons, so Anvil runs Warn's with a set bolt to "secure them" when locked. Another factor to consider, the Yukon's do a much better job of keeping water out of the front axle than the Warn hubs do.

Keep in mind when doing the Fords upper King pins, the seal is taller than the Dodge/Chevy Seal.

Also if the truck has any amount of miles over 100k I'd seriously suggest replacing the lower King pin "plates" with new ones. These are often overlooked but it takes very little wear to cause issues.

The Dana 60 uses a nylon bushing and a spring to set a pre-load on the king pins. When components wear this pre-load becomes no longer effective and can change alignment on the move as the knuckle moves up and down on the pins. I have seen as much as a 1/8" toe change just rolling a rig back and forth 10' on a shop floor due to "loose" pre-load with all new parts. Do not assume that it's all within spec until you make sure you have no movement of your toe in after a rebuild. Worn knuckles are not at all uncommon on high mileage heavy loaded trucks. Hopefully yours will be still intact which makes for a nice driving truck when properly rebuilt.

More food for thought... when you remove the front axle shafts near the seal surface at the differential splined end of the shaft, check and see if it appears oil has gotten past the seal. It's not odd to have worn axle shaft U joints flop around and diminish the sealing capability of the inner tube seals. This most likely wont present an issue unless parked at a sever side hill angle or in water crossings. But Ford runs a higher diff fluid level than Dodge and Chevy, so they are more prone to starvation if a leak develops at the axle tube seals.

Good luck and look forward to a nice driving rig when finished.




Offline Nate

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2015, 10:47:06 AM »
now that was a bomb of knowledge right there!
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Offline JR

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2015, 11:14:48 PM »
now that was a bomb of knowledge right there!

Some of it is dated now with all the new products. Like my late model 14ff has a few changes. But so much in one place!!
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2015, 12:09:20 PM »
I've been gathering all the parts to complete this rebuild and I had a brain fart and only ordered bearings and seals for one side.  I go to NAPA to order the bearings and went to pick them up today and they are Chinese bearings.  Ask if they had an option for USA bearings and he grabs their premium brand bearings.  Chinese as well.  I got Timken USA made bearings in my original order and I don't know if it is just me or if the quality really is that different.   Timkens felt much more solid and didn't have near the rattling sound the Chinese ones did.  I realize they are going to rattle around somewhat until you get them packed with grease but the Chinese almost felt as if they were going to come apart.  Just saying

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 09:05:30 AM »
GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline kiszka6911

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2015, 03:12:25 PM »
The Yukon hubs are considerably stronger than the Warn 35 spline stuff. My only issue is my wife can't easily turn the old Spicer hubs or the Yukons, so Anvil runs Warn's with a set bolt to "secure them" when locked. Another factor to consider, the Yukon's do a much better job of keeping water out of the front axle than the Warn hubs do.

I have the 35 spline Yukon hubs and I have a hard time turning them.  I ended up using two different kids of grease because I ran out during reassembly.  Both meet all the proper specs but one is just more tacky which makes that hub harder to turn.  This in combination with the geared NP205 can make disengaging 4WD a challenge.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2015, 04:21:27 PM »
are the hubs in your dodge there? Do you remember how long ago you installed them? There have been some adjustments made to the spacer rings, as Don can attest. usually fords had the issues you're describing because the end of the stub shafts would contact the bezel, so you would be trying to turn the stub and the bezel together. Not easy. They are also a lot more metal, but shouldn't be as difficult as you describe. If you want to PM me your details I can send you a set of the new spacers and see if that helps free up the bezel.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Dana 60 issues
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2015, 10:54:56 PM »
^^^ What Tate said

You should talk to the hub guy, but we decided to delete the spacers in my app and it cured all the non fitting issues
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