Author Topic: Another New Rifle thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (Read 11553 times)

JR · « **on:** September 11, 2019, 10:49:30 PM »

Well, after following the last thread I am now in the market for a rifle in 338 lapua. I have a 7mm, but have wanted something with more range and I found there is a gun club up near my property with a 1000yd range.

I did find a used Sako TRG-42, but being a long distance transfer with a used rifle I have found the regs here are a bare with fees around $200. It was under 3k, about 500 rounds through it with a batch of reloading gear with it.

So looking for advice, budget not unlimited, trying to balance out value. I will reload for it, but start with factory loads.

Scopes would be nice too, been looking at Vortex Viper 4-25 with 2nd focal plane.

With that, I have seen the Savage 110s which are OK, great prices too. Then there are the Armalite, Weatherby

Today I saw both the Ruger Precision Rifle and the Christensen. Liked the Ruger, Chris seems a little light with CF barrel.

OK shoot!!

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2019, 10:56:08 PM »

338 is overkill for 1000.

My 308 gets there fine with a 20 inch barrel. The 300 WM is a great round for 1000-1200.

A 7wsm would be another great alternative.

But if you are set on a 338, then blazer sako AI, are all good options. Or a custom build.’

Lots of good glass for reasonable

Vortex makes good glass. Nightforce F1, and my favorites the Schmidt and Bender PMII

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JR · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2019, 11:07:32 PM »

Charles, your spending $$ I don't have (well to spend that is).

I know, go big or go home.

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #3 on:** September 12, 2019, 07:19:11 AM »

Yeah, it a talent I have....

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Bear9350 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2019, 08:27:08 AM »

What type of capability do you want at 1000 yards. There are a ton of options that will get you to 1000. If you are on a budget to build the gun you will also be on a budget to shoot it. Even if you reload, .338 will be significantly more expensive to shoot than a lot of other options. If you just want to hit steel at 1000 yards a 6.5 Creedmoor will easily get you there with cheap and easy to find ammo. If you want something that is going to hit a little harder at that distance the .300 WM, .300WSM, 7WSM etc would be good options.

In my opinion, Savage has good accuracy but they have other issues. They are known for feeding and extraction issues. I have one and it seems like every other round doesn't eject properly. The actions are also a little harder to work then some of the better options in my opinion, this means that you will be changing your point of aim more when working the bolt.

The RPR is ok. The biggest down side for me is the way they are built there really is no way to upgrade them etc.. The RPR has been around for a few years now but the magnum line just came out this last year.

Don't do a Christensen Arms.

If I was buying a factory rifle I would be looking very closely at a Tikka/ Sako or Howa. Both have good factory accuracy with nice bolt lift and decent ergonomics. If you can, find something with and adjustable LOP and cheek rest.

For optics I would be looking at FFP. The scope on my precision rifle is a 5-25. I almost never shoot on 25 power. Normally 12-15, sometimes up to 20. With a FFP plane I can still use the reticle for holds etc.. On a SFP the reticle is useless at anything other then full magnification.

Look at Vortex, Burris and Athlon for more budget friendly glass. You might be able to pick up a Gen I Razor for a decent deal also. Burris just came out with the 3rd generation of their Burris XTR. You might be able to pick up a Gen II for a good deal.

No budget, I would be picking up a Tangent Theta. I've looked through a couple and the image quality is simply amazing. Any thoughts on what type of reticle you are wanting? I would recomend a mil reticle.

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2019, 08:37:44 AM »

Good points Bear.

Barrel life is also a consideration. WSMs are hard on barrel life .

6.5 and 308 last a long time.

You can buy once fired 308 to make loading cheaper too.

I’m still a fan of 300wm

Reticle is a personal preference but FFP 16x minimum at 1000 but I prefer 20x plus at my age. Mil reticle and mil adjustment is my preference but I try to keep all my scopes consistent so I don’t have to remember to recalibrate my mind when I go to a different rifle

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Bear9350 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2019, 08:49:24 AM »

Added some additional detail to my first post.

JR · « **Reply #7 on:** September 12, 2019, 12:36:55 PM »

Thx guys, for the $$ looks like the RPR is hard to beat. I like the Sako, but my wallet does not. I do not like the safety on the savages, but it and the RPR have similar triggers. Didn't know about the feeding/ejection issues.

I want some ting that hits hard at range. Understand the 338 is not a barrel burner at all.

Planning on about 1k for the scope, besides liking vortex they have a few options in that range with the features I like.

Bear9350 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 12, 2019, 12:36:55 PM

Thx guys, for the $$ looks like the RPR is hard to beat. I like the Sako, but my wallet does not. I do not like the safety on the savages, but it and the RPR have similar triggers. Didn't know about the feeding/ejection issues.

I want some ting that hits hard at range. Understand the 338 is not a barrel burner at all.

Planning on about 1k for the scope, besides liking vortex they have a few options in that range with the features I like.

Are you realistically going to shoot the rifle enough for barrel life to matter.

The Gen 2 Vipers would definitely be with in your budget. If you can stretch it just a bit more you could get into the Gen 1 Razor.

JR · « **Reply #9 on:** September 12, 2019, 02:53:12 PM »

Yep, doubt I would shoot out a barrel. I was looking more at that because of the used Sako I just passed on. To many logistic issues with the sale.

Those Razors do look nice and are not out of the budget, but push a little.

Mil seems to be the choice to for long range, which I believe is the MRAD option.

stlaser · « **Reply #10 on:** September 12, 2019, 03:11:08 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 11, 2019, 11:07:32 PM

Charles, your spending $$ I don't have (well to spend that is).

I know, go big or go home.

JR, it’s ok I text Charles chit to buy weekly!

JR · « **Reply #11 on:** September 12, 2019, 03:22:12 PM »

Quote from: stlaser on September 12, 2019, 03:11:08 PM

Quote from: JR on September 11, 2019, 11:07:32 PM
Charles, your spending $$ I don't have (well to spend that is).

I know, go big or go home.

JR, it’s ok I text Charles chit to buy weekly!

Do I get a discount?

Bear9350 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2019, 04:31:30 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 12, 2019, 03:22:12 PM

Quote from: stlaser on September 12, 2019, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: JR on September 11, 2019, 11:07:32 PM
Charles, your spending $$ I don't have (well to spend that is).

I know, go big or go home.

JR, it’s ok I text Charles chit to buy weekly!

Do I get a discount?

Current and retired military and LEO get, I think, 40% discount off Vortex's MSRP.

JR · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2019, 05:02:27 PM »

May have to do a shadow sale, that's a great discount.

Just retired LEO,,,,,,,,,,

Flyin6 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2019, 08:58:40 PM »

Man, where are you people getting all this money?????

JR · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2019, 09:13:31 PM »

Quote from: Flyin6 on September 12, 2019, 08:58:40 PM

Man, where are you people getting all this money?????

Really? How many tractors do you have?

I'm talking a gun and scope,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

JR · « **Reply #16 on:** September 12, 2019, 09:14:07 PM »

I was even thinking about the 300wm vs the 338, then the Sako owner emailed and might be willing to drive up so we can exchange at an FFL.

Has me thinking again. too much maybe.

What do you guys think. TRG-42 in 338 with 34mm rings and all the reloading gear with it. (200 brass, 500 rounds and dies)

Bear9350 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2019, 09:48:00 PM »

What do you want to do with this rifle? What will it's propose be. Unless you plan to spend some serious time behind this gun I would guess both platforms will deliver more then enough energy down range at your (read the shooters abilities) effective range. No offense meant there but you would need to spend some serious time shooting beyond 1000 yards for the additional energy of the .338 to really matter.

What brand of reloading equipment is included with the deal?

Bear9350 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2019, 10:24:11 PM »

After a bit more contemplation, your effective range would probably be greater with the .300. Reason being ammo is going to be much cheaper so you will shoot it more. It isn't going to punish you as much when you shoot it so you will shoot it better and more accurately and more. The more quality practice you get in the further your effective range will be. You will need to learn how to read wind, mirage and terrain to stretch either one of those guns out. Frankly, neither choice is good for learning those skills but of the 2 the .300 is better. If you really want to be able to learn to shoot 1000 yards I would recommend you by something like a 6.5 CM or similar and burn a barrel up practicing and shooting. Then start thinking about going bigger. If you wanted I could spec out a good budget friendly option that would be more then capable of shooting 1000 yards.

JR · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2019, 10:33:43 PM »

Sounds like a good way to go, but I can't afford custom. Sounds like the brakes are really doing there jobs on these guns. Heck I can shoot 300yds on my land and a suppressor would make it neighbor friendly.

Sure my 7mm will get more use too up there, haven't shot it in years!

I am starting lean into the 300 idea though. Even reloading it would be way cheaper plus store ammo won't kill you, still see under $1 rnd.

KensAuto · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2019, 09:14:40 AM »

Are you saying the 7mm won't shoot 1000 yards? Or just need an excuse for a new gun.

JR · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2019, 12:03:40 PM »

Sure the 7mm will do 1000yds, I want a new gun. Something that isn't lobbing it in. 300wm is a step up from 7mm, but 338lm is a nice jump.

Might rescope the 7mm (ruger) as it is over 30 years old. 3x9/44 on it now.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2019, 12:11:34 PM »

No personal experience at all with 1000 yard shooting

I did shoot my M1A in .308 to 800 a bunch of times, and I own a .300 WM, but I purchased that for dangerous game at normal shooting distances.

Now having said that, I worked, well hauled around a bunch of guys whose business was long range precision shooting. When the .300 WM entered the scene everyone was loving it for the 1000M shots. But when the .338 Lapua showed up, well suddenly we stopped getting rocketed and morated at night. Guys were routinely connecting the dots at 1.5X your anticipated range.

The .50 is always a good choice for extreme range shooting but from my limited experience still nothing has eclipsed the .408. One of the gunners who developed that gun was the same guy riding the mini gun in my bird in Northern Afghanistan. The ranges they were shooting that gun defied imagination. I want to say that he pointed to a shot he connected (at a target, mind you) at 3.2 klicks.

Ammo is exotic, as is the scope "System" on that gun, so getting to be "Tractor" expensive, but clearly able to deliver the goods at any range any sane person would consider.

I am a total non expert here, just wanted to share about the .300 and the .338 from real world experience.

JR · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2019, 12:46:51 PM »

Thanks Don, all input is good.

As for cost, I have seen 338 from $.78 a round, but normally $2-3. Yes, 300wm is cheaper, but neither will be shot enough where it would matter. Both rnds can be had over the counter at any good store.

Bear9350 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2019, 02:33:04 PM »

A ballistic comparison of some of the common calibers. Notice ballistically speaking the 6.5CM, .300 Winchester Magnum and 7mm Remington Magnum are very similar. The .300 WM carries more energy at 1000 yards. The 7mm RM has less bullet drop, less windage and is moving faster when it does get there with just a little less energy compared to the .300 WM. It also stays super sonic longer. The 6.5CM is quite comparable to the other 2 with less energy. I still wouldn't want to get hit with one.

You can likely find cheap ammo for all of them. It doesn't matter how cheap you can find it if it isn't going to be accurate enough for you though.

KensAuto · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2019, 02:47:24 PM »

These guys have some interesting videos. I found the second one pretty fascinating.

https://youtu.be/rkPaxI5FuEs

https://youtu.be/Hq-m3bYrs7Y

JR · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2019, 04:44:56 PM »

Watched his videos a couple times.

1st video looks like wind is playing with that 7mm.

Sound is a cool one too. The shotgun surprised me.

Bob Smith · « **Reply #27 on:** September 13, 2019, 07:35:34 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 13, 2019, 12:46:51 PM

neither will be shot enough where it would matter. Both rnds can be had over the counter at any good store.

So I guess it doesn't really matter in the long run. Buy what you think you will like best and go from there. I have a couple guns that take up space in the safe because they don't get shot enough to really matter. If you are reloading, load the .300 up with 180 gr. stuff and be surprised at how well they print on target at whatever range you feel good about shooting.

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #28 on:** September 13, 2019, 07:53:13 PM »

There is a reason the secret service used *(may be still does) the 300wm.

Now the 338 is a bad mo fo and I’d like to have a big bore delivery system but I’m not there yet.

I’m probably going 408 like don said. Stupid accurate at distance that make me question my abilities

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JR · « **Reply #29 on:** September 13, 2019, 08:32:26 PM »

Doing rounds comparison I saw the big boys and I want hitting power, no just a paper puncher.

When you look at the 338 to 300 you see little diff. in FPS. However the 300 about maxes out at 200gr, where the 338 starts.

Loading for the 338 is 80-/+100grs and the 300 is 60-/+80grs pushing both to around the 3k FPS. Which the 338 holds longer and shoots flatter.

The 300 compare well to the 7mm. My ruger though is a lightweight and the barrel gets wanky after 3-4 rounds. Plus being light with no brake, you feel the kick.

KensAuto · « **Reply #30 on:** September 13, 2019, 11:21:20 PM »

The 7 isn't much different than the 300wm, but the 300wby can lob a heavier bullet than both...if you don't mind harder to find ammo. Even the Vanguard (lower end model) has an adjustable trigger and does ok at 1000.

Tex would probably say something like "leave it to a 1911 owner to recommend an oddball rifle like a weatherby". .but I like being different.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 13, 2019, 11:45:47 PM »

I owned a massively hard hitting long range gun once, a Remy 700 BDL in 8mm Magnum

I eventually sold it just because it was such a brutal weapon to shoot. I was considering a 338 somebody or a 340 Weatherby Mag for an African hunt that never got put together. I had a large collection of 700's and in some weird calibers like .220 swift so I went for the 8mm.

First day out at the range after zero, a lieutenant I was with challenged me to a rapid fire, 3 rounds from a bolt gun, tightest group wins. We gave ourselves 5 sec per round. I think I was shooting my heavy barrel 6mm, and he chose the 8mm magnum.
Mike was a west point graduate, and a nose tackle on the Army team in his day (Read: Big guy)

Well he cranks out three pretty quick shots and looking over at him I saw blood all over my gun, his face, his shirt, everywhere. Scope darned near cut a prefect circle around his eye.

After that I only used that gun to torture people and sold it when I returned to the states. All of this happened in Germany where I'd shoot on most weekends.

JR · « **Reply #32 on:** September 14, 2019, 12:18:51 AM »

Most of these new scopes have a 3.5 or better eye relief and the new brakes are said to work great.

Looks more like I'm going with RPR in 338. Like to buy local, but $300 less online and no tax. Gives me extra $$ for the scope which looks more like a 1K+ journey. Will have around $3k in it. The add a few rounds and reloading basics.

Not sure but the stock may go for a magpul PRS and timney makes a trigger if I don't like the factory.

I sure like the Vortex Razor gen II, but they start at 2K. (40% off would be nice)

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #33 on:** September 14, 2019, 08:09:36 AM »

Sounds like a plan JR.

And yes Ken. You are “different”....

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Bear9350 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 14, 2019, 08:26:54 AM »

You can't swap the stock out in an RPR.

TexasRedNeck · « **Reply #35 on:** September 14, 2019, 10:20:35 AM »

https://youtu.be/0ZgDV8NxuII
Nice review

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Flyin6 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 14, 2019, 11:08:30 AM »

Hey, just for fun, ever check out the .375 cheytac? I saw where the Aussies are now shooting that thing out to 5,000 meters!!!
Flippin crazy.
Having said that, I do not think anything will outshoot the .408 when the full limits of that gun are explored. Imagine a sniper who from a hilltop is covering an area 6+ kilometers across!

JR · « **Reply #37 on:** September 14, 2019, 11:32:40 AM »

Quote from: Bear9350 on September 14, 2019, 08:26:54 AM

You can't swap the stock out in an RPR.

Takes any AR stock, still folds which I like. https://www.ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/specSheets/18080.html

JR · « **Reply #38 on:** September 14, 2019, 11:36:09 AM »

Quote from: Flyin6 on September 14, 2019, 11:08:30 AM

Hey, just for fun, ever check out the .375 cheytac? I saw where the Aussies are now shooting that thing out to 5,000 meters!!!
Flippin crazy.
Having said that, I do not think anything will outshoot the .408 when the full limits of that gun are explored. Imagine a sniper who from a hilltop is covering an area 6+ kilometers across!

Starting at $4100, nice round but I think the 338 will do anything I ask and more.

BobbyB · « **Reply #39 on:** September 14, 2019, 05:15:52 PM »

If you have the money to play around with 338 and be comfortable with it, go for what makes you happy. That's what's important anyway, however are you going to be able to source out parts for the TRG if something goes wrong with it? Without having to wait for shipping?

JR · « **Reply #40 on:** September 14, 2019, 05:31:44 PM »

Yep, and I hear that ruger has stellar CS. Looking at options now, officially backed out of the TRG.

Sammconn · « **Reply #41 on:** September 14, 2019, 10:01:10 PM »

Well I’ll vouch for brake effectiveness.
I screwed up and scoped myself.

Long version.
Cheap brake on my AR10
All comfy shooting at bench.
Too comfy after a while.
Grabbed release on buttstock (different than on my 15)
Pulled trigger and got smacked.
Brake saved a big cut and lot of blood as mentioned earlier.
(Full recoil smothered on forehead...)

JR · « **Reply #42 on:** September 14, 2019, 10:03:48 PM »

Ouch, son got recoil from a pellet gun. Light taste for an easy lesson.

Sammconn · « **Reply #43 on:** September 14, 2019, 10:20:15 PM »

I don’t cut easily which helped but the brake was the saving grace.
A small little cut that was gone in a few days.

After I put the brake on and bench shot it a bit I “got” what brakes are about.
Went from 308 recoil to just about no hint.

JR · « **Reply #44 on:** September 14, 2019, 11:21:24 PM »

Reminds me of the guy who was going to show us how to shoot a pistol grip 12ga. Put it up to his face to aim, need I say more.

Sammconn · « **Reply #45 on:** September 15, 2019, 01:01:04 PM »

Now ^^that there is...how do you say ‘SMRT’.

Bigdave_185 · « **Reply #46 on:** September 15, 2019, 10:38:22 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 14, 2019, 11:21:24 PM

Reminds me of the guy who was going to show us how to shoot a pistol grip 12ga. Put it up to his face to aim, need I say more.

When I was a boy I had a really good friend chip both upper front teeth doing that exact thing. I laughed all the way up the farm to his moms house as he cried I’m his guts out.

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BobbyB · « **Reply #47 on:** September 18, 2019, 09:37:45 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 14, 2019, 12:18:51 AM

Looks more like I'm going with RPR in 338.

Guy up here was selling one and tried to get me to buy it, but it was 308. Sadly I had to pass it was too rich for my blood, although it did shoot very nice, probably would've been more comfortable had I fiddled with the adjustments on the stock.

JR · « **Reply #48 on:** September 18, 2019, 10:40:10 PM »

The 308s go for 1300, saw one for 1100 that was gen 1.

Just looking for the best price then decide on the scope. I really like the razor if I can get someone to buy it for me.

BobbyB · « **Reply #49 on:** September 19, 2019, 08:57:32 PM »

Quote from: JR on September 18, 2019, 10:40:10 PM

I really like the razor if I can get someone to buy it for me.

Call or email Vortex Customer Service. Ask them about the LEO/MIL discount of 40% MSRP (last I heard), you'll order right from them.