REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
TOOLS, CONSTRUCTION, ALTERNATIVE ENERGY => Hand Tools, Power Tools, Welders, etc => Topic started by: KensAuto on October 12, 2015, 11:09:02 PM
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I've been wanting these 2 tools, for myself, for quite awhile. My (work) tool budget allowed it to happen, but still had to keep it cheap to some degree. I'm not a fan of Anything China when it comes to precision, but don't have the time to restore a classic American lathe or mill either.
After some research, it appeared that Grizzly would be a decent choice for my price range.
They showed up Thursday, just as I was getting ready for my camping trip with the wife, so I didn't get to unbox them until today.
Here's the Model 9972z lathe. It's an 11x26 version (it has 11" work area and up to 26" long project)
(http://i.imgur.com/XHl5IVR.jpg)
...sitting on the pedestal :
(http://i.imgur.com/o8wtnpR.jpg)
Hopefully JR takes it easy on me!!
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....and then, as I was bolting it down, grinning ear to ear, I saw this and my stomach started turning:
(http://i.imgur.com/4SCBxx5.jpg)
That is a major crack...in the bed of the lathe. Not good. I started cursing and making racial slurs referring to some country that this was made in, and then quickly apologizing to the guy upstairs, shortly after sending pics back to the company.
...well, I guess that's what I get for cheaping out.
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After I cooled down a bit, I went to unboxing the mill to check for flaws. It's a Grizzly G0754 with power feed and all gear driven instead of a belt. She weighs in at about 700lbs. This machine looks like it was made in an entirely different factory, and looks awesome as far as fit and finish goes. I'm still waiting on it's pedestal, which happens to be on backorder.
(http://i.imgur.com/xY1SEvk.jpg)
I'll take some more pics when I get it set up.
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Deep breath my friend. It will work out fine.
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Nice start if if your getting into it. I really can't see the model numbers, guessing the lathe is a 13-40? I can't tell if it is a gap bed (good for turning BIG stuff)
To bad about the crack, makes it sorta worthless,,,,,,,,,,,,
Grizzly is the same as JET and several others. Mine worked good until I had my little fire and did this;
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See that Pelican case at the base? That had a RC transmitter in it that came out perfect!! Had to cut the case open, sent the story to Pelican for a new case, never heard a thing.
It was the best you could buy about 10 years ago, made in Germany, $1000 then.
Used a sawsall to cut it open.
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Wow Ken. Sorry to hear. The hassle is the worst part of they stand behind it. Hopefully you paid with a CC. You can dispute it if they try to weasel out.
JR that's an amazing story.
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Yeah, great story. It did it's job above and beyond.
The lathe is a 11x26. No drop bed... but just large enough for the barrels that I have. :)
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Yeah, great story. It did it's job above and beyond.
The lathe is a 11x26. No drop bed... but just large enough for the barrels that I have. :)
Thought I would DOT up your thread a tad. I mean why should Don have all the fun!!
11x26 is what I have, great size. Sure Grizzly will take care of you.
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Ken, if you don't mind me asking what is the approx. retail price on that mill along with specs? I sold my 2hp Bridgeport prior to moving. At 2k its pretty hard to move without some larger equipment. But at 700# that mill might be something I could handle here in my garage......
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http://grizzly.com/products/11-x-26-Bench-Lathe-w-Gearbox/G9972Z
But, I'm not Ken,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Try searchtempest.com too. It seaches CL and ebay within a radius you set.
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Here's the mill....about 1600. It sure ain't no bridgeport tho!! http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Power-Feed/G0754
The lathe just left my shop on it's return voyage.....ugggg. Taking too long.
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I always find nice ones when I search, but you have to get the right one.
Truck freight is bad enough for delivery, returns must be a nightmare.
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I'd love to learn how to make things on a mill someday. My uncle has two Bridgeports, one big, one smaller, in the basement of his house. Getting those moved in there was a pain! Friend of his has a rollback wrecker, and then once the mill was inside we rolled it on steel pipe. It runs off a phase converter since he doesn't have 3-ph power. Don't know the motor specs, but since its 3ph, gotta be at least 2HP or more.
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Thanks for the link Ken, I've had several mills over the years all used bridgeports. You can find them in good shape for $3K but again moving them is a pain. I currently have a large Powermatic drill press with a swiss mill table and its not a BP either! :o
I always ran a 3 phase converter as well. They work but are noisy, actually they have a weird hum or sound to them that will drive you nuts. I was looking at the single phase conversions and would choose that route in the future, fyi for anyone looking.
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This week, I decided to rearrange the shop to make some extra room. The "shop" is basically a couple 40' shipping containers with a roof in the middle (I bought it that way). The previous owner welded 10 gauge" shelves along the entire length.....Overkill! I cut some of those out to allow some of my taller equipment to fit in there....to free up room in the shop area.
(http://i.imgur.com/0js4J9i.jpg)
...then took those shelves, cleaned them up, cutting off the supports (3/16"), and rewelding them above the lathe area. Ordered up some grey tractor paint and layed it on:
(http://i.imgur.com/FpEU5fE.jpg)
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After you guys talked about shop lighting, I ran to Lowes to pick up a fixture to put above the lathe....it's a 48 watt version:
(http://i.imgur.com/rB1NZMy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fruAy3k.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JploYA2.jpg)
Received the new, new lathe, and bolted it down with redheads. Ran some electrical...110 for the lathe and 220 for the future mill spot, then installed the light:
(http://i.imgur.com/mrbSJh6.jpg)
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I like it and those drawers. I have been looking for bins for so long! I actually got to see the top of a 4x8 ply sheet in my garage last night, scary!
That lathe looks right at home but you will need another box for tooling, specially with a mill on the way!
I just put an LED 4ft light over my lathe, so much better than a CFL.
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Now, if I had only planned it out a little better. The light is directly in the way of the first shelf....the most important one. I'm going to try raising it up so I can put the lathe tooling up there.
The good news is, the lathe isn't cracked, and I got to turn some steel last night. :)
Bad news is, the mill pedestal is still on backorder. :(
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Mount the light under the shelf with a reflector so it doesn't hit you right in the eye. Basic tooling along the back of the chip guard, big stuff below and have a grinder near to sharpen bits. I have the little HF sitting right on mine.
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That was my original plan JR, but I had to pull the lathe out from the wall 10", which brought it out past the shelves, so I had to make brackets to move the light out over the bed.
never thought about hanging stuff on the chip shield....good idea.
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Why 10 inches from the wall? Leave for cooling and cleaning (or put a shield up).
Quick change setups are OK too, but I find buying a few sets of carbide bits and some tooling steel for cutting my own works well.
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I bought a quick change...just didn't buy the right one. It wouldn't fit!!
The belt cover/door opens rearward and would hit the wall if any closer.
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Copy, all my controls are up front. When I did have one of those I just removed the cover, might make it easier if you can mod or pull the pins.
I just did a pair of 10 inch honda rotors on mine, just cleared.
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Hmm, never thought about pulling the cover. I don't know if that would be wise with my lack of coordination tho. There's pullies and gears, and demons, and all kinds of majic behind that door!
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redheads.
My attention was peaked. Then the pics loaded... no redheads. :'(
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Hmm, never thought about pulling the cover. I don't know if that would be wise with my lack of coordination tho. There's pullies and gears, and demons, and all kinds of majic behind that door!
It only hurts for a second,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I found I pulled the door and changed gears rarely. Belt now and then for speed but your cross feed is out front.
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I got to play...urr...work on the lathe this week. My ditch witch is about to be put into service at my brothers new place and I wanted it to cut straighter than it did for me the last time I used it. The snout on the gear box where the chain bar attaches was ground down (and later I found out it's actually bent...somehow) which allows the bar to drop at an angle. The "snout" is cast and the bar is steel, about 3.25" in diameter.
I made this bushing out of a 3.25" rigid conduit fitting to press into the bar:
(http://i.imgur.com/nvVF9WE.jpg)
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Yeah, I know. "why not use bronze?" The thing is bent, so the steel should buy me a few years of use, giving me time to find a used gearbox:
(http://i.imgur.com/9H1V3BX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gskcOMe.jpg)
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...and then this thing came in: (and it's not Model G0705)
(http://i.imgur.com/YOfBE5m.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/wyeSXNz.jpg)
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So is it bigger the Ken?
Looks like you've got the machine shop in good form now!
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Bigger?
The stand was meant for a different machine, hence the G0705 sticker. I think this one, the 754, is bigger. I know it works pretty good. I had to make a quick change tool post nut for the lathe, and it worked great. No pics tho.
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Very nice start there. The "playing" gets addictive and you will find many things to "upgrade".
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Here's the ditch witch reassembled:
(http://i.imgur.com/kgBG40o.jpg)
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Very nice start there. The "playing" gets addictive and you will find many things to "upgrade".
You're right JR. A buddy stopped by and gave me this idea for the milling vise. I made some dowels on the lathe.....roughly 1/2 stepped down to 3/8...and installed them perfectly horizontal to the milling table. This allows the vise to be removed and installed without spending an hour setting it up:
(http://i.imgur.com/2amHYic.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SJGNI3L.jpg)
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...and installed some lighting on the mill. icsfc (I Can't See for Crap).
These are sewing machine magnetic lights:
(http://i.imgur.com/bBJlQhF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cuWFhAg.jpg)
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I like those lights! I assume they were pretty reasonable as well?
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Yep, there you go. Setup is by far the most time consuming part of machining.
I have LEDs on my mill too, never enough light!
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I like those lights! I assume they were pretty reasonable as well?
I thought they were about 3 times larger from the pics on Amazonia, hence using both instead of one like I had planned....but they worked out ok.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008RA1XGK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Way better priced than last magnet base machine light I bought....
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I have been researching some bench top mills. The Grizzly ones look pretty good for the money. Are you happy with yours so far? I know you have had a couple issues, but it seems they made it right. Would you buy that brand again?
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I would definately buy the mill again. I believe it was built in a completely different factory than the lathe. I think JR was probably right about the lathe being the same as a Jet brand, among others. It works ok, just doesn't have the same fit/finish as the mill.
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Jet was made in Taiwan for sometime and there products were great. All farmed out the china now with lesser known casting quality and lots of filler under the paint.
My first big lathe was a Jet 13/40 with a gap bed. It was made in china and was an OK machine.
For the money now grizzly is not bad at all. On a lathe a good head is worth a lot, tooling can be just a few hundred. For the mill, tooling will get you. There are vises with mine that are $1000, then the bit holders and bits.
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Thanks guys. I'm not sure where it might be made, but here's a link to what I'm considering.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-18-3-4-HP-Mill-Drill/G0781
This will be for the family tool collection to go in the nice shop. The one nothing greasy, oily, or dirty goes in. Really we just work on guns, reload, and play with a few other small experiments in there. It will mainly be used for gun work. Do y'all think this will fill that need?
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That looks like a nice little mill. I personally think that the spindle-to-table distance is pretty small, at 11.5 inches. That's before you add a tool with holder, or drill chuck, and without the thickness of a milling vise.
Just my observation.
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That's a concern I have too. Still looking. The price jumps up pretty quick from this point from what I see.
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Yes it does!
I guess that one would be considered a "mini", but for a mini, it does have some good specs. Out of the ones in that size range, I like that other one, the g8689, because it's built in an iso 9001 factory (supposed to have better bearings, tighter tolerances, etc) but it has the smaller mt3 spindle instead of the r-8 style.....and it has a shorter table.
Good luck bud, I know what you're going through. I really wanted a $30k model, but couldn't swing it. lol
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Yes that is a mini mill but the square motor post makes it much more rigid. I think you would outgrow that very fast with the limited capacity.
I like the G0754 much better as you are in full size mill. Go right to 220. You will need DRO (digital read out). I made my own for around $200.
My mill is a benchtop, but ran around $7500 before the CNC. Wabeco 1200 made in Austria. I need to take a new picture!
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I would love to get the bigger mill. If you add a few tools in with them the price is double. The only thing we are buying it for really is gun work. I know how that goes and we will surely find more uses for it. The price increase just ain't in the cards right now and this is a Christmas gift for my step-dad so we need to get something coming.
Sorry for jumping in on here Ken. I didn't figure you would mind knowing your D.O.Tability though.
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Go ahead, DOT it up!
Pay back...
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Hey, you butt out of it troublemaker!!
I don't mind at all, I mean, the thread is about machinery.
Speaking of which, I made a couple v-blocks out of a piece of aluminum the other day. It was fairly simple, and good practice.
I cut the square stock into equal lengths, made some marks, turned the mill head to a 45* angle, and let the chips fly. 3 different sizes to hold several different size round parts:
(http://i.imgur.com/bfaMoof.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hXW4q76.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Q6WKMmY.jpg?1)
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Ken, how is the mill holding up and which model did you purchase? I know the base was wrong but couldn't find where you stated the model for the mill.
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It's still working fine. There's a rubber chip guard that goes behind the bed that is completely dry rotted, but that's the only real negative.
If you go to the first page, I gave you a link to the mill on Grizzly's web site (take too many mary jane gummy bears today buddy?) :)
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Power-Feed/G0754
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It's still working fine. There's a rubber chip guard that goes behind the bed that is completely dry rotted, but that's the only real negative.
If you go to the first page, I gave you a link to the mill on Grizzly's web site (take too many mary jane gummy bears today buddy?) :)
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Power-Feed/G0754
Yeah, overlooked it sorry. Honestly, I wish the cause was some MJGB's but alas that is not the case. My world has been turned on it's head a bit since last Friday. Things will be up in the air until end of the month but I may be in the market for a smaller mill (foot print) but one that still has the HP. The one you bought is a contender with a couple upgrades such as DRO. Once I know for sure which way the wind is blowing I'll give the forum the news.
edit: the other one I am considering is this
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-Power-Feed/G0755
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Remember you will spend at least another 25% or so on tooling. I got my lathe used but it has 6 boxes of tooling.
Start watching CL (I use searchtempest) for guys getting rid of stuff. New is nice, but mostly chinese now.
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Remember you will spend at least another 25% or so on tooling. I got my lathe used but it has 6 boxes of tooling.
Start watching CL (I use searchtempest) for guys getting rid of stuff. New is nice, but mostly chinese now.
I had a Bridgeport for years, still have the tooling and the clamping / fixture tooling in storage (well kinda as I am using some for the fixture for the axle weld up now :tongue: ). I'd like to have another Bridgeport but the foot print / height and the weight are a no go for me currently. I don't want to have to bring in special equipment to move it when we move in the next several years. Which was reason I sold my last one.
When we bought our HAAS VF8 cnc mills we figured upfront to spend just as much on tooling and fixturing / bed plates as we did for the machine. :shocked: seriously......
This will be a business purchase and I won't have time to deal with homo'slist as I'll be under a time frame which is tight. I can't chance issues that a service tech or sending in another new unit can't fix immediately.
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Yeah that 755 is a better machine for sure.
Not sure if I mentioned it but their mills are Taiwan and much nicer, and better tolerances, than their china lathes.
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Yeah that 755 is a better machine for sure.
Not sure if I mentioned it but their mills are Taiwan and much nicer, and better tolerances, than their china lathes.
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I don’t know if you did or not but I’m glad you mentioned it now. :likebutton:
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One of my first JET lathes was a Japan made (used), next was a new Jet and wow could you tell the diff.
Footprint is a big deal. Neighbor had one that he had to use a forklift to move around (fine if you have one)
Tabletops are fine and you can get roller tables for them that makes it nice.
That 755 looks good. I like the R8 collets which are more of a standard than my M2 taper. They show a DRO for it going for $1000, but you build your own for half that. If you ever go CNC it won't be used.
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So I'm getting close on pulling the trigger, should know tomorrow if I am going this route or not. As I stated it is a business purchase and having a call with a guy who will in essence force me to invest in a machine or not.
I keep going back and forth between the 754 & 755 in all honesty there is a case to be made that Ken bought the better unit in terms of bang for your buck. His has a larger working area in terms of swing and also table movement on the Y. Granted the table is not as wide but for my application it is not needed. The 755 may be slightly more precise with it's heavier casting and dovetail way column although I'm not convinced that column design is stronger on these bench top machines. Added weight typically makes a difference however the one has the base included and the other doesn't (separate base does not have a weight listed) so that may be misleading a bit? If you look at HP, bearing designs etc they are identical. A big factor for me is the base footprint being slightly smaller in an already crowded shop and the table being narrower helps as well. Reality is I am having a hard time convincing myself the 755 model is worth an extra $800. I'm just not seeing it.....
Ken's mill and base which I am leaning towards
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Power-Feed/G0754
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-Stand/T25677
Versus the next step up
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-Power-Feed/G0755
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The 755 is how I would go. Larger table and power feed means a lot.
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The 755 is how I would go. Larger table and power feed means a lot.
754 has power feed as well, slightly larger table with slightly shorter y movement isn’t worth the $800 difference to me
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The 754 is really stout, but I have gotten a bit of flex out of the post. You have to really tighten the pinch bolts (like 1" nuts iirc). The wrench it comes with doesn't have enough leverage. Need to set up a socket and breaker bar but I keep forgetting.
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The 754 is really stout, but I have gotten a bit of flex out of the post. You have to really tighten the pinch bolts (like 1" nuts iirc). The wrench it comes with doesn't have enough leverage. Need to set up a socket and breaker bar but I keep forgetting.
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Movement because you let H tighten the pinch bolts? Or are you saying the post flexed & if so what were you doing? Don’t tell me you let Don torture test it.......
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The 754 is really stout, but I have gotten a bit of flex out of the post. You have to really tighten the pinch bolts (like 1" nuts iirc). The wrench it comes with doesn't have enough leverage. Need to set up a socket and breaker bar but I keep forgetting.
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Movement because you let H tighten the pinch bolts? Or are you saying the post flexed & if so what were you doing? Don’t tell me you let Don torture test it.......
I haven't seen it, nor run over it, nor bush hogged anything like that recently...
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Last time I remember, I was using a large bit to face a piece of steel and it wouldn't take a .025 cut. the vibrations caused the nuts to loosen even tho I had tightened the crap out of them (with the supplied wrench).
Probably a multitude of user errors, like cheap bits, feed to fast, no strength in my arms, you know, the usual.
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Last time I remember, I was using a large bit to face a piece of steel and it wouldn't take a .025 cut. the vibrations caused the nuts to loosen even tho I had tightened the crap out of them (with the supplied wrench).
Probably a multitude of user errors, like cheap bits, feed to fast, no strength in my arms, you know, the usual.
Ken, copy just a thought but you know the difference between conventional & climb milling?
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The 754 is really stout, but I have gotten a bit of flex out of the post. You have to really tighten the pinch bolts (like 1" nuts iirc). The wrench it comes with doesn't have enough leverage. Need to set up a socket and breaker bar but I keep forgetting.
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Movement because you let H tighten the pinch bolts? Or are you saying the post flexed & if so what were you doing? Don’t tell me you let Don torture test it.......
I haven't seen it, nor run over it, nor bush hogged anything like that recently...
Sorry, my mistake these machines are green not your favorite orange color for bush hogging and running over.....
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Looked again and the 755 has a bigger table and more travel. I like the square post too, less flex.
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Naw, but I did stay in a holiday express once.
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Naw, but I did stay in a holiday express once.
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The short of it is on a manual mill you should conventional mill so if the cutter is spinning clockwise then you should attack the cut in a clockwise fashion. This link explains it in much greater detail. CNC guys will normally climb mill which is attacking in opposite direction.
https://www.cnccookbook.com/climb-milling-versus-conventional-milling/
Btw, last holiday inn I stayed at near Indianapolis airport (new version with restaurant in it) wasn’t half bad.
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Ken, anyone else look at the Matthew Precision mills? I was reading reviews on the grizzlies last night & someone mentioned them. They are Taiwan made as well (probably same factory as grizzlies) but at quick glance may be a little better unit. Definitely more working area on them at least.
http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-940m/
Looking at option #5 as they have it in stock, wanted #4 w/ included DRO but they have an 8 week lead time. Can always throw DRO on myself later.
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& after talking with them I just bought the precision Mathews.......
should be delivered early next week
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Looks like a solid machine with options.
Building a DRO is not hard at all. I made mine using separate scales from ebay for under $100. You can get kits for way less made for mills; https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Readout-DRO-Linear-Scale-Kit-for-CNC-EMD-Milling-Lathe-Engraving-Tool/202255320316?hash=item2f175b44fc:m:m2w8AegNQnijq36sP4crxWw
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JR, I will get with you when I’m ready. I’ve fixed or replace components on them before at the shop but never built one from scratch if you will.
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I built from scratch using separate scales. The kit above is made for a mill and has readouts as dedicated unit would.
Anytime.