Shop Heaters

[mjmbrown]

Hey all,
Finally moved into my new place and earned my self in my opinion a perfect sized shop (40x40). Growing up my parents built a shop on land well before we ever had a house on it so my dad took his time and did it right, fully insulated, lights and outlets everywhere. It was huge but was set up right and gave me a place to get away and grow up wrenching, welding and learning a ton of skills.

Fast forward 25 years and I'm now in a position that I wanted for so long, big lot, big shop and a modest rambler far enough away from the neighbors I can make noise. So back to the meat of the post:

The shop is not insulated and has tall ceilings,  I'm trying to get the most bang for my back as far as heating it during the winter. My area (eastern Washington) wont see sub zero temps often but it is possible. I would just like to be able to take the chill out of the air without my eyes burning or going deaf from a propane "jet engine" my 7 year old calls my current set up.

Any ideas, suggestions? what is everyone else doing right now for heating their space?

Pictures to follow

[TexasRedNeck]

Congrats on getting a place that reminds you have your youth and some place to spread out.

assuming you have NG or propane available...

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_20858_20858?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Heaters,%20Stoves%20%2B%20Fireplaces%20%3E%20Natural%20Gas%20Heaters&utm_campaign=Mr.%20Heater&utm_content=17353&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=17353&gclid=Cj0KEQiA0-GxBRDWsePx0pPtp4sBEiQACuTLNgWhJjz5E_WvDt5eDpmD6mxEiPQu4DbkXYZCzEPF-VIaAsT-8P8HAQ

[BobbyB]

The shop is not insulated and has tall ceilings often but it is possible.

I'm trying to get the most bang for my back as far as heating it during the winter.

Do you have plans to insulate it? Might help get more out of a smaller heater or having to use the bigger one less.

[cudakidd53]

For "on the cheap" you could build a double barrel stove and burn wood.  Two 30 or 50 gallon barrels some angle iron and some chimney pipe etc. and you can have cheap heat.  Add a box fan and you're in business. 

[Flyin6]

Best thing I know of is the outdoor wood burning stove unit. It is a boiler which circulates hot water to a grid located in the living space. You could run it to water pipe located in the floor, or to a water heater, or a baseboard or wall mounted or ceiling mounted unit. Or replace the heater grid in your existing forced air unit and hear completely off of wood!

[KensAuto]

I have to break out the "jet engines" a couple times a year, and I agree, they're a bit smelly and probably not too good for your health. Burning wood sounds like your best bet.

[Flyin6]

And eastern WA just burned up, so should be lots of dead trees about to chop on!

[mjmbrown]

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen! I have a friend who owns a body shop and he recommended some wall mounted units he uses in this shops over here. Ill link those up once I find something comparable. Ive given some serious consideration to the wood burning stoves, I regularly have a cord or two of wood on hand from camping trips. I think it makes the most sense to spend the coin and insulate, but wife doesn't see the need.  >:( Once I organize and settle a bit more into the shop I should have a better idea on my real needs, but it might be next spring before I get around to it.

Yes its true about the wildfires up here this year, I have many firefighter/volunteer friends who went to help out. The whole east side of the state had a California like haze to it for a few weeks. enough for the state to issue a public health warning about air quality.

[Sammconn]

If you're on electric or gas, the Mrs will see the benefit of insulation immediately after the first bill come in.
It's a lot of work, and material given the size of your shop, but will pay for itself in very short order.

[stlaser]

Here's my setup on the cheap, honestly only portable heater I had left after the move. It does take the chill off my enourmous 700 sq ft though......... ::)



Those fires affect us here on the eastern slope as well. I'm 20 mins from mountains and there were quite a few days where the smoke blocked them entirely.

[Dawg25385]

In a 40x40 uninsulated, i'm guessing pole/metal building... until you insulate, a wood stove and a fan on the ceiling to push the heat down sounds like the best bet.

Prob no nat gas where you are if i'm guessing right, and propane to heat that will cost ya a fortune.

[Farmer Jon]

Nothing beats in floor heat. We can pull a piece of equipment inside in the middle of winter with a foot of snow on it. By  morning its all thawed out and the floor is dry. No more cold feet. The only problem is if we have to open the big door (42x23) we have to fire up the Val 6 to take the chill out. Its pricy but worth it.

[stlaser]

Good friend of mine did this in his shop 40x60, however he failed to insulate around the perimeter of the foundation. So essentially all his floor heat was sucked out into the surrounding frozen ground with the lack of an insulation barrier there to keep the heat in. He ended up putting in forced air unit using the exterior wood boiler and completely foregoing the floor heat, big waste of investment. If done right this type of heat is hard to beat, I've had friends who heated the floors with electric heater units and also exterior wood burning stoves.

Nothing beats in floor heat. We can pull a piece of equipment inside in the middle of winter with a foot of snow on it. By  morning its all thawed out and the floor is dry. No more cold feet. The only problem is if we have to open the big door (42x23) we have to fire up the Val 6 to take the chill out. Its pricy but worth it.

[Farmer Jon]

Our shop is 80x80. The heat has 2 separate zones so we can keep the office warmer. Had it professionally installed. They put a special high pressure Styrofoam down then the tubes and then concrete. That insulates it from the ground. The building sits on a 4 ft tall concrete stem wall that is a foot thick. Pured that using lite form so its insulated really good.

[stlaser]

Our shop is 80x80. The heat has 2 separate zones so we can keep the office warmer. Had it professionally installed. They put a special high pressure Styrofoam down then the tubes and then concrete. That insulates it from the ground. The building sits on a 4 ft tall concrete stem wall that is a foot thick. Pured that using lite form so its insulated really good.

Did you pour those walls yourself? You were talking about the crete forms made of styrofoam correct? Always wondered about those.....

[EL TATE]

In a 40x40 uninsulated, i'm guessing pole/metal building... until you insulate, a wood stove and a fan on the ceiling to push the heat down sounds like the best bet.

Prob no nat gas where you are if i'm guessing right, and propane to heat that will cost ya a fortune.

In Benton City, my uncle's got a shop a little longer than yours, about 40x60 I would guess, but he's doing the wood stove and ceiling fan system and it works well. Late November pheasant hunts will often turn into hanging out in the shop, resting the dogs, playing pool and swapping stories and we're always in t shirts after an our or so.

[Farmer Jon]

Our shop is 80x80. The heat has 2 separate zones so we can keep the office warmer. Had it professionally installed. They put a special high pressure Styrofoam down then the tubes and then concrete. That insulates it from the ground. The building sits on a 4 ft tall concrete stem wall that is a foot thick. Pured that using lite form so its insulated really good.

Did you pour those walls yourself? You were talking about the crete forms made of styrofoam correct? Always wondered about those.....

We had a contractor come out and do it. Too big of a job for us. We helped where needed tho.

[mjmbrown]

I'm 5 mins from there now. I grew up in Benton city (Red Mountain), small town feel.  Long story short I decided to insulate first, it will make the most sense long term. Wife has determined that I might never come into the house and might stay out there forever! Kids love the new space and it been fun so far. pics to come

In a 40x40 uninsulated, i'm guessing pole/metal building... until you insulate, a wood stove and a fan on the ceiling to push the heat down sounds like the best bet.

Prob no nat gas where you are if i'm guessing right, and propane to heat that will cost ya a fortune.

In Benton City, my uncle's got a shop a little longer than yours, about 40x60 I would guess, but he's doing the wood stove and ceiling fan system and it works well. Late November pheasant hunts will often turn into hanging out in the shop, resting the dogs, playing pool and swapping stories and we're always in t shirts after an our or so.

[EL TATE]

I'm 5 mins from there now. I grew up in Benton city (Red Mountain), small town feel.  Long story short I decided to insulate first, it will make the most sense long term. Wife has determined that I might never come into the house and might stay out there forever! Kids love the new space and it been fun so far. pics to come

Man it's crazy how small this world is getting. You don't know John & Andy Demyer do you?

[Sammconn]

You will never regret insulating.
It will heat much quicker and cheaper which ever way you go.
Your wife may be right though.

[mjmbrown]

heres a pic I got the other night, pardon the mess. still trying to arrange and move. Just trying to make it mine, and undo some weird stuff the previous owner did.

[TexasRedNeck]

No pic


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[mjmbrown]

the yellow wall in the corner is the left over from the world smallest room the previous owner constructed for his daughters play room. it was barely 6 feet tall  and  more or less just taking up valued floor space. I debated on leaving the ceiling for storage but it was just not built well enough for me to consciously leave it. so I pulled every screw out of it and increased my stock pile of 2x4s and 2x6s. Im not sure I will drywall after insulation but I left those walls up for now. once I get the green light to start insulating I will post up some of that process here so yall can watch me itch.

[Dawg25385]

Can't tell... are you going to use foam sheets or fiberglass batts?

Something to think about... i was talking to our builder regarding future shop construction, and mentioned that i'd insulate it myself to save money (2x6 exterior with batts in the stud bays)... the comment he made was that because the insulation subs can get the materials at such deep discounts (at least around here) that it's about a wash doing it yourself (material cost) or having someone do it (their cost plus labor). Made the decision pretty easy for me!

[mjmbrown]

that's what im working on, a pallet of r21 does almost 900 sq feet and is $825. but I 've got a call into a friend who hopefully can connect me with a trusted guy who can do the work. but im sure with the holidays getting him to come out and estimate it wont happen until next week.

[rpar86]

Personally, I'd think about doing sheetrock. The kraft paper on the facing of the insulation is a great fuel for fire... sheetrock on the other hand is not.

[stlaser]

So it got cold enough here that my little propane head is not up to the task of even taking the chill off my shop. Reality is 15,000 max btu will not make a dent in the roughly 700 sq ft garage of mine. So I went shopping online and then to half a dozen stores. From my research 60,000 BTU was supposed to heat 1500 sq ft so I figured with 700 sq ft uninsulated I should be ok. After working in unheated steel shops for close to 20 years I'm over working in the cold. Anyhow the unit I wanted was priced between $100-$120 HD & Lowes had them for $100 but all the stores were out of stock (figured that was a good sign) and a local farm store had them in stock for $120 but me being frugal (nice way of saying cheap) I decided I would make an additional 15 min trip north east to a lone tractor supply that sits out n the middle of no where close to anything. I go in and low and behold they have two on a pallet with other heaters still wrapped in plastic waiting to be stocked on the shelves. I check price on the shelf and these are supposed to be $100 so I figure what the heck. Go check out and with tax $84, musta been on sale...... Score!

[TexasRedNeck]

Electro I assume?


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[stlaser]

Sorry, 20# propane tank and electric blower fan.

Edit: been painting a ceiling in my garage before I hang new florescent lighting. Had to shut heater off as I was sweating in a t-shirt, currently 30 degrees out btw

[TexasRedNeck]

What do I need to be concerned with in the shop.  I have some regular gas in a sealed fuel can and some 2 cycle mix as well. I'm guessing I should out that outside?


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[stlaser]

Probably but I'm not currently. You always hear horror stories. The flame on this unit is sucked way back inside the tube. I can post a pic if you like?

[Dawg25385]

Those are really nice.. really crank out the heat. But long term, i would still probably want a heat source that exhausts to the atmosphere versus inside. You get loopy at all up there by the ceiling?

[stlaser]

I haven't, although my first house had a vent free propane insert fireplace and this is the same theory. I needed something quick and cheap and this fit the bill. Long term (once other half of walls are insulated and sheeted later this year) I am going to look into a vented system of some sort. May run a nat gas line to a ceiling mounted forced air unit that is vented thru the exterior wall.

[Bear9350]

A lot of guys up here run a infrared radiant heat system on the ceiling of there shops.  What is nice about them is it heats the objects in the room up not so much the air.  Those objects then heat the rest of the room up.  So the wrench or whatever else you might be grabbing isn't so cold.

It would probably also cost a lot more but it is also nice to steel the walls and ceiling also.  Don't have to worry about sparks etc.. nearly as much.  No painting and helps a lot with lighting.  I am guessing for the guys running those radiant heaters it also helps heat the room up too.

[stlaser]

We had shops back in Indiana (actually my first 30x40 had one) and they work well. Probably most efficient units out there next to floor heat.