Author Topic: SquareD Build Thread, Part 1: The beginning (Read 144271 times)

Flyin6 · « **Reply #300 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:05:55 PM »

Note: I was still thinking I would be driving this truck soon. Hadn't turned the curve to a complete restoration yet...

Flyin6 · « **Reply #301 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:06:58 PM »

Had a change in heart about the color

Considering the purpose of the truck, a back up survival vehicle, driver, farm truck, and project hauler I have perplexed for some time over the colors

I already purchased some of the dark silver base paint and planned to just do that in lieu of changing in the hopes of just getting the truck on the road quickly.

It would look "Classic" and like many trucks do around here, that is older and well maintained. It would fit in any parking lot without drawing much attention other than to appreciate a good survivor example.

But, that does not really play well into the possible scenario of running and hiding, and most likely in wooded, rural areas.

One color that always works well is OD Green. By itself, it's low sheen does well in the shade. Smear some of the local mud on it and you have a pattern of natural materials.

So, that's it. The truck will become OD green, specifically, WW2 OD Green which is the all time classic. The bright stuff will be painted with the semi-gloss John Deere Blitz that I just sprayed the undercarriage with. I'll add hardener to the paint to give it descent abrasion resistance to branches and the like.

Decision made, on line ordering the paint!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #302 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:08:19 PM »

OK, something really weird just happened

I went up to pick up the Dana 70 axle I found for $250.

I get there and there is a big old meaty somewhat Dana looking axle there which the guy selling to me says is a Dana 70.

I am staring at the fact that it has a rear sway bar attached and has the anti lock reluctor ring as well with the cool little sensor.

Then we just started talking about this and that and before long I fork over the $250 and we use a bobcat to load the axle onto my trailer.

Well, I drive home and get my tractor to unload it and that's when I really took a good look at the rear cover........

Hmmm, seems larger than that Dana 60/70 cover sitting right beside it. Hmmm, the Dana 50/60/70/80 all have 10 bolts on that rear cover, but this one has 12 bolts....

Yea, seems like I didn't just purchase a replacement Dana 70, but a Sterling!

Yup, from what I can see looking at those really big lumpy axles, that's what I now own! Just like that I made a big bonehead mistake...Or did I??

Shawn, others who are smart? So, I own a Sterling with a 3.54 gear and a rear sway bar. I buy a set of spring perches and just like that, I think I have a Sterling rear axle sitting in my W250 Dodge.

Dunno, does Dodge and Ford mix??

I mean I'm installing a F350 HPD60 in the front of my Chebby, so does the sterling add up to being a good rear axle?

Flyin6 · « **Reply #303 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:08:59 PM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyB View Post
So I'm no axle genius so I assume that you came out WAY ahead in that deal?

Well, I don't know
I think a used Dana 70 is worth the $250 I paid, however, not so sure about this Sterling.
I did get a complete rear sway bar out of it, and that has to be worth something, but the 10.25 and 10.50 Sterlings axles have not caught on like the GM 14 bolts or to a lesser extent the Dana 70.

From what I know the Sterling is basically Fords answer to the Dana 70. The D70, 14 bolt and Sterlings all posses about the same strength, although this sterling has some massive 35 spline 1.5" axles that would have to be awfully difficult to break.

I mean the thing would fit and work in my Dodge, but I'd have to be the first guy who ever replaced a Dana 70 with a Ford Sterling if I actually go through with it.

Then there's the drive shaft length, is mine going to fit???

Flyin6 · « **Reply #304 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:09:36 PM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmeyer414 View Post
Gotta a pic of this here new to you axle?

It was dark when I tried to photo it.
It's sitting in the front bucket of my tractor.

It's a big greasy mess, but actually has very little rust.

I've been reading about these axles. Apparently they are similar in strength to the Dana 70 and possibly Dana 80.
At 333 pounds it is no lightweight! It does have the rear sway bar which would be a nice addition, and I just checked and Shawn DOES make a cover for it!
So, the driveshaft length is a question, the width of this axle, which is 66" WMS-WMS as compared to the Dodge. IT has huge brakes, heck it's odd, but it might just be a go!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #305 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:10:25 PM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustoff 35 View Post
Seems I should have gone with you.

You have a tendency to get distracted by bright, shiny things like reluctor rings, anti-sway bars and cool little sensors!

I have to take some personal responsibility here.

I really screwed up!

That was a huge miss

A Ford Sterling instead of a Dana 70

Totally on me, I blew it...

But I woke up thinking of making lemonade out of a lemon

That sterling is out of the normal box, hell, it isn't in any box (Too dammed bog!) It's the right ratio...It's uber strong...It could fit...It's newer technology...It has the best axle sealing system made...And in line with things I build, it's definitely different...

Just sayin

Flyin6 · « **Reply #306 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:11:03 PM »

From Shawn:

Not necessarily a screw up, I read an article once about the sterling axles. Technically (at the time) there were three versions of them & I'm sure Tate can help you confirm which one you have. From what I read each had a weak spot internally (if you want to call it a weak spot) IMO, no different than a D-70. I have put over 300k hard miles on two different sterlings with no issue & one was snow plowing duty. I do make a cover & also disc conversion can't recall if you said yours was disc or not? I also think that article said you could swap some internal better parts from one of the other three to make the axle you had better. I think a lot of it was larger bearings etc but again Tate is the guru there. All in all it was worth $250 & they put them behind their 6.0l diesels which do make decent numbers while they are running. I used one for 150k single rear wheel 1 ton pulling around a 36' enclosed gooseneck for over 150k until the 6.0l decided it wanted to start puking, 18k trailer fully loaded all the time

Flyin6 · « **Reply #307 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:11:51 PM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlaser View Post
Not necessarily a screw up, I read an article once about the sterling axles. Technically (at the time) there were three versions of them & I'm sure Tate can help you confirm which one you have. From what I read each had a weak spot internally (if you want to call it a weak spot) IMO, no different than a D-70. I have put over 300k hard miles on two different sterlings with no issue & one was snow plowing duty. I do make a cover & also disc conversion can't recall if you said yours was disc or not? I also think that article said you could swap some internal better parts from one of the other three to make the axle you had better. I think a lot of it was larger bearings etc but again Tate is the guru there. All in all it was worth $250 & they put them behind their 6.0l diesels which do make decent numbers while they are running. I used one for 150k single rear wheel 1 ton pulling around a 36' enclosed gooseneck for over 150k until the 6.0l decided it wanted to start puking, 18k trailer fully loaded all the time.

Well, after church today, I'm going to measure everything up to see if I get the basic fit going on. Then tear into the thing a little to check out the internals. If it's good, I'm going to use it. Like you said, no real difference between it and the Dana 70 strength wise.
From what I have found out so far, the only problem was with an early (up to 93) version of the 10.25 Sterling which had short splines in the pinion gear to yoke end. I can determine if I have one of those by pulling the yoke and measuring it. (Good time to replace the front seal

Now if it is the short spline model, it is said to wobble in 4.10 or higher and with 40" tires. Since I have 33" tires and a mundane 3.54 ratio, it really should be fine anyway. However, the fix is simply to install a pinion gear with the next gen long splines. That fixes everything and makes Don and Shawn happy.

I'll box up that D70 rear disc brake kit and snappy and Purdy rear D60 cover and send them back your way.

The very first parts I order for this axle will be GLO stuff!

I'll buy (Buy) one of your rear covers. I've been working out so I'll be able to lift it! I'll need your rear leaf spring mounts and depending on what the brakes look like, your rear disc conversion. I have drums on this axle.
I think I'll just paint it up and install it like that, but cast an eye on getting a grizzly from Tate for it as soon as I come out of the D-Max SAS build.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #308 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:14:46 PM »

Got into that Sterling rear axle today.
I checked it out and sure enough it says 3.55 on the tag.
I measured the WMS-WMS width. Stock is 66" This Sterling is 66" as well!
OK so far good to go
Then I tried to fit the driveshaft U-joint into the yoke.
That was a big no-go. The Dodge u-joint is larger than the Ford yoke. THe Dodge U-joint cap is the same diameter, however it is at least an inch wider than the saddle of the yoke. I'm thinking the Dodge is a series 1350, but not sure. No clue what the Ford yoke fits, Maybe a 1310 spicer...dunno

Anyway, here is the first glance at the crusty ford boat anchor in my trusty John Deere

Flyin6 · « **Reply #309 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:16:05 PM »

First I pressure washed it for maybe 30 minutes. Then I soaked it with the purple stuff and pulled down the shocks and sway bar. Then it was pressure washed again

Flyin6 · « **Reply #310 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:17:12 PM »

The brakes are 3" wide
The dodge has 12" X 2.5" brakes, so the Ford will be a noticeable braking improvement over what it was

Flyin6 · « **Reply #311 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:18:04 PM »

It cleaned up pretty well
It has the all important reluctor ring (Shiny thing) that I need to keep the Dodge anti lock brake system functioning.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #312 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:18:55 PM »

This rear sway bar was a freebee and is a huge bonus that will significantly improve the trucks handling

Flyin6 · « **Reply #313 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:20:10 PM »

The diff is definitely an open unit which is not a good thing. There will be a Detroit locker or similar in there soon enough. A dodge with a thousand ft/lbs of torque, those small tires and one wheel getting all of that spells smoke screen for sure

Flyin6 · « **Reply #314 on:** September 21, 2014, 09:21:06 PM »

The fluid was old and discolored somewhat but much cleaner than what came out of the D70 rear axle. I'll clean the living daylights out of this thing and get it ready for one of Shawn's covers

I cleaned up the build tag which clearly indicates 3.55
I have to do some digging to decode everything else

Flyin6 · « **Reply #315 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:04:05 PM »

The sump looked like this cover...I think I'm good to go

Flyin6 · « **Reply #316 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:06:42 PM »

Posted by TJ:

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyin6 View Post
It cleaned up pretty well
It has the all important reluctor ring (Shiny thing) that I need to keep the Dodge anti lock brake system functioning.

Are you sure it'll just work as-is? Does the Ford reluctor have the same frequency as the stock Dodge?

I hate to be "that guy" but wouldn't rebuilding your D70 be the cheaper, "sure thing" route? Now that you cleaned it up nicely maybe you can even make a few bucks reselling the Sterling?

-TJ

Flyin6 · « **Reply #317 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:07:49 PM »

Posted by Ken:

I would personally ditch the rear antilock system. They sucked from the get-go and sucked up until they went 4 wheel abs. Take out the valve, put a couple fittings in and Big D is happy, and better stopping, no more spongy pedal, and no more wearing out the front brakes at 20k or less (especially since the dodge diesel doesn't use engine braking at idle without mods).
__________________

Flyin6 · « **Reply #318 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:08:11 PM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by KensAuto View Post
I would personally ditch the rear antilock system. They sucked from the getgo and sucked up until they went 4 wheel abs. Take out the valve, put a couple fittings in and Big D is happy, and better stopping, no more spongy pedal, and no more wearing out the front brakes at 20k or less (especially since the dodge diesel doesn't use engine braking at idle without mods).

I was surely thinking that same thought!

The truck came with a spongy pedal and the brake light was on, indicating some sort of problem, most likely with the anti-lock.
Good suggestion Ken, especially in light of the vehicle purpose, EMP and all that...
__________________

Flyin6 · « **Reply #319 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:09:04 PM »

From El Tate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KensAuto View Post
I would personally ditch the rear antilock system. They sucked from the getgo and sucked up until they went 4 wheel abs. Take out the valve, put a couple fittings in and Big D is happy, and better stopping, no more spongy pedal, and no more wearing out the front brakes at 20k or less (especially since the dodge diesel doesn't use engine braking at idle without mods).

Just did some research; wiring might be right, but tooth count is not. ford's sensor controlled ABS and Speedo, and won't work with dodge's system. ditch it and run the housing sans ABS like Ken suggests and you'll be happier.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #320 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:09:55 PM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjZ06 View Post
Are you sure it'll just work as-is? Does the Ford reluctor have the same frequency as the stock Dodge?

I hate to be "that guy" but wouldn't rebuilding your D70 be the cheaper, "sure thing" route? Now that you cleaned it up nicely maybe you can even make a few bucks reselling the Sterling?

-TJ

I hear ya, but I think I'll go with this out of the box adaptation.
With Tate solving the U-joint issue, and with Ken's suggestion of dumping the anti lock brakes which just makes sense to me, I can't come up with a good reason to spend a couple thousand building the D70 which would include a locker since I'd already be spending money on a teardown/reassemble.
De-tech it and it begins to make sense!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #321 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:11:24 PM »

Let's do some reassembly
I worked down the "Hanging Jungle" some and got the front axle area a bit prettier.
First I really wanted to finally get one of Shawn's front covers mounted, so I did that first.
I glued the gasket to the cover but did not use any sealer at all on the axle face.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #322 on:** September 21, 2014, 10:12:29 PM »

Using the new frame bolts in 3/8" X 1.25" the cover was bolted up

Flyin6 · « **Reply #323 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:04:08 AM »

Oops, forgot the freshly painted differential tag...

I topped it up with 4 quarts of Valvoline synthetic gear oil, sorry Willie!

Shawn's unique design allows you to put any amount of oil you wish in there since it fills from the top and not the side.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #324 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:07:32 AM »

I was determined to get some stuff installed and off the shelves and hanging jungle today, so that's where I focused

Next I installed the front shocks

Flyin6 · « **Reply #325 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:09:57 AM »

Next, the front driveshaft

Flyin6 · « **Reply #326 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:12:13 AM »

Hoping to get the steering somewhat installed, I pulled the steering column lower linkage and the gearbox.

The latter was not easy. Long/big/fine thread bolts made for a second weight lifting session this afternoon!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #327 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:13:29 AM »

This area in Dodge frames is prone to cracking. Here is more evidence I purchased a diamond in the rough. The frame is perfect! Not a hint of anything going bad here.

I cleaned it up, coated it with the rust converter, then a couple coats of Blitz paint

Flyin6 · « **Reply #328 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:14:47 AM »

If you're wondering, yes, I cut the lines to make removal easier. I have new ones for the reinstall.

I did the same treatment to the steering box mount plate, a simple but clever piece designed to spread the loads generated by steering over a larger area

Flyin6 · « **Reply #329 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:15:35 AM »

That got reattached to the new steering box

Flyin6 · « **Reply #330 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:16:30 AM »

The pitman arm will get cleaned and painted as well. I was surprised at how easily it came off the old box. I'm thinking it was working a little...Man, I bet the steering on that truck then was awful!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #331 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:17:17 AM »

The hanging jungle is getting more space for future parts painting!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #332 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:17:56 AM »

OK, Tate and I were exchanging emails. The subject is a traction diff for the Sterling.
I want to keep the cost low, since the parts for the Combat Max are scaring me!
Anyway I was thinking of a Lock-Rite mini locker to fit inside the stock diff case.
Tate suggested I look at a True-Track gear limited slip or another Grizzly like I have in my Duramax. I am definitely partial to the Grizzly's, but I'd be getting into a bunch of money.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #333 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:19:55 AM »

This is what makes these projects an affliction.

I can't seem to leave anything alone

I start with changing the oil and buying new tires, but that eventually leads to a complete color change, SAS and an Allison turbine conversion.

I need to get the vehicle to my "Minimum" standard. Which means quite a bit more than just oil changed...

like I said, it's an affliction!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #334 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:42:07 AM »

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlaser View Post
Do they make a mini spool for that Sterling yet? Remember this truck isn't going to see thousands of miles & may end up as the farm truck....

It is likely true that this Dodge will find itself sitting in the barn on a trickle charger, hooked up to a trailer, but later. For now, I would like to drive it enough for me to determine the truck is reliable and get it well into the "Survival truck realm.

With some things I am good with just getting it back to factory spec, Things like the brakes for example. But with winter approaching, a torque diesel and no traction device, or even mudding down on terra farm and getting stuck on wet grass is something I need to think about. Frankly producing something with 400+ ft lbs of torque and no limited slip is nuts, so in a way, I am making up for a poor decision from Dodge.
But I have this thing torn apart, Tate says it's not all that difficult to install a diff in the Sterling, so I am thinking this IS THE TIME to do that!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #335 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:42:56 AM »

From Shawn:

Lets makes something really clear. Limited slips go in the back of 60's muscle cars not trucks. Don't waste your time on anything limited in a truck. It's either a Detroit style locker or spool / LL. I also like push button stuff. However, all limited slip will do is slip and leave you stranded. Trust me been there and done that trying to save wear on other parts. Spent a lot of money and still ended up with a real locker. That is all, you all may proceed forward now I have spoken! LOL

Flyin6 · « **Reply #336 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:44:51 AM »

You boyz are a bunch of chatter boxes when I'm away!

Back to the build...I was able to get more boxes in the trash and parts installed on the truck.

First I finished installing the steering box

Flyin6 · « **Reply #337 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:45:46 AM »

Then I cleaned up the pitman arm, coating and painting it to resto garage standards

Flyin6 · « **Reply #338 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:47:12 AM »

For some reason I got a little crazy on the rust removal and de-rusted the brake drums, treating them as well.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #339 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:48:15 AM »

I'm going to have the drums turned so the slop all over the inside will be milled off with the pitted iron

Next I tackled the steering shaft. The factory design is junk. I removed it in favor of rebuilding something that would just wear out soon.
The borgensen shaft I ordered to fit the truck, did not!

My luck...

But I had a left over Toyota tundra steering joint, so I decided to cut the both of them apart and make something custom, which you see happening here.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #340 on:** September 22, 2014, 11:49:30 AM »

The Toyotas steering joint was actually much larger than the Borgensen joint it replaced. And, the Toyotas joint bolted up to the Dodge steering wheel shaft with some simple elongation of the bolt holes.

In this series, the new shaft is being created

Flyin6 · « **Reply #341 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:13:24 PM »

I painted the new end black and installed it like that, after removing the 100mph tape I put on there to keep it from getting all banged up

Flyin6 · « **Reply #342 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:14:36 PM »

The installation went well, only taking a couple minutes

Flyin6 · « **Reply #343 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:15:24 PM »

Then the pitman arm

Flyin6 · « **Reply #344 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:16:28 PM »

Then the cross over steering linkage with two new tie rod ends

Flyin6 · « **Reply #345 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:17:24 PM »

I plan to scarf up some new fine threat grade 8 bolts and lock nuts for the tie rod clamps in a day or so. I just need to get some more of these parts onto that truck before I go crazy!

Next the drag link was bolted up

Flyin6 · « **Reply #346 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:18:45 PM »

Then I connected the Power steering lines, bolting up the new pressure line

Flyin6 · « **Reply #347 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:19:40 PM »

Steering works, and mo-better than ever. I still plan to move the steering stops in just a tad, but here is the left and right limits...It's all connected!

Flyin6 · « **Reply #348 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:20:32 PM »

Then the new center rubber brake hose went in

Flyin6 · « **Reply #349 on:** September 22, 2014, 07:21:24 PM »

Then both caliper hoses, new Wagner parts, each!