When I buy a Dually

[Flyin6]

I am one of those guys who never stops looking. I love to read about and check out every feature of the new offerings from the big three mostly.

So, I can for sure see a dually in my not too distant future. Wanting to regularly tow around my big Kubota SVL-95-2S which weighs in at 11,600 with no mud and no attachment. Add to that a Fecon or extreme brush cutter and you're easily up another 1500-2000. So I'd be towing 13,600 + the 4,500-5,500 lb trailer. So I am way deep into the one ton class and maybe I ought to be looking at the 4500 range.

Couple that and I have been threatening to buy something like a Host Mammoth triple slide, truck bed camper and I am needing an eight foot bed.

I am a Chevy guy, but for this next purchase I am open to anything. Doing my early research, that F450 with the 4.30 gears is hard not to look at. Not too bad looking and has a ten speed and over 1,000 ft lbs. The Silverado is just killing me with that double ugly front grill. Only way to improve that is to just chop it off, and if I did what everyone wants to do, I wouldn't have a radiator anymore, which almost eliminates the Chev. Now the Ram has the nicest interior, but I think the 6.7, six cyl is going to absent from the huge pulls or be all topped out. I sort of like how a V8 revs a bit more than a Cummins lugging hard at 800 rpm and all would out at 1300!

Mind you, this is a buy that would likely take place (30%) next summer or (70%) the summer of 2023, but I don't mind talking about it now. I would be keeping my 2500 Duramax truck simply because it is all modified, and I would not ever be doing anything to the new truck except taking it to the dealer and the truck wash.

And at the moment, if I had to buy a truck today, I think I'd be spending on the F-450, maybe in XL or XLT trim with some options. Would that be a bad/even/or good idea??

[Bigdave_185]

I like the Ford and GM but catch me dead when you said dodge has the nicest interior.  .   

They use the absolute cheapest everything in their pickups and have for the better part of my life,


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[Flyin6]

I like the Ford and GM but catch me dead when you said dodge has the nicest interior.  .   

They use the absolute cheapest everything in their pickups and have for the better part of my life,


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Disagree. Ever since Fiat became a part of the genome that company has massaged the interiors of the Ram and jeep vehicles a bunch. Today, they have one of the better interiors if not the very best. Take another look. Not the same truck as a early 2000's truck at all.

[KensAuto]

I like the Ford and GM but catch me dead when you said dodge has the nicest interior.  .   

They use the absolute cheapest everything in their pickups and have for the better part of my life,


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Disagree. Ever since Fiat became a part of the genome that company has massaged the interiors of the Ram and jeep vehicles a bunch. Today, they have one of the better interiors if not the very best. Take another look. Not the same truck as a early 2000's truck at all.

Still a Dodge tho.

[Bigdave_185]

I sat in a 2018 and did the exact same as I did in a 2012

Take your thumb and message that center of butt cushion

A good five min you will have a divot that holds water.

It’s simple addition to me. 

The cheapest trucks on the market boils down to 1. Simple reason.   Cheap  parts throughout the vehicle.   Otherwise they would not be selling for $10k less.



No other justification, maybe it’s just me doh


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[TexasRedNeck]

Here you go boss.  Since you have a penchant for taking pristine vehicles and hacking them up...Er...modifying them.

https://austin.craigslist.org/ctd/d/eureka-1998-dodge-ram-59-cummins-diesel/7269022288.html

I’m actually thinking about this one too


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[stlaser]

Buy a fummins in f450 or f550, they come available pretty often for 20-30k

[TexasRedNeck]

My goal is to have one with zero electronics.


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[Bigdave_185]

I’ll buy the first Nikolai all electric lol


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[Flyin6]

My goal is to have one with zero electronics.


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Just looked at that link. If I was in the market now, I believe I might purchase that truck. Simple, would get the job done, and in unreal condition. Total classic!

[stlaser]

My goal is to have one with zero electronics.


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Resto mod an older truck like what Seth (swbhobie16) does so often. A lot of work but you end up with what you want. I’d suggest 05+ Superduty f450/550 front axle which is coil sprung, great turning radius, large brakes and easily modded under just about any truck. The rear Dana 80 or AAM 11.5 then use whatever trans zf5 or 6 is hard to beat and adapt to np205 ford drivers drop t-case. Just my 2 cents 

[Flyin6]

My goal is to have one with zero electronics.


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Resto mod an older truck like what Seth (swbhobie16) does so often. A lot of work but you end up with what you want. I’d suggest 05+ Superduty f450/550 front axle which is coil sprung, great turning radius, large brakes and easily modded under just about any truck. The rear Dana 80 or AAM 11.5 then use whatever trans zf5 or 6 is hard to beat and adapt to np205 ford drivers drop t-case. Just my 2 cents 

Appreciate the sound and logical advice
however
I think I may want to just buy N' drive something.
That would be a whole new experience for me...never did anything like that before
(I once even modded my murray lawn mower in the 80's!)
(and tried to put a Harley Sportster engine in a dirt bike, well planned it out)
I modify my house, my computer, all of my guns, my son's thinking, and just about everything else cept the word of God. I don't touch that...nossir, works pretty good all by itself. I tried to modify some things that just didn't work out, like the Murray, my wife's thinkin, and certain restricted flight maneuvers of the Chinook. None of those worked out, but my point is I spend a pretty large amount of time modifin' things
And now I have these little grand kiddies who just this mornin' took up some of my time, and I looked upon that and pronounced it was good! (I just listened to the book of Genesis again, and was rememberin' when God said the same words.

So I have extra time spent with these little people. I have a lot of time wasted answerin' all the time consuming comments on here from Dave's. I have this farm which is goin to be my end of days project. I think I want to be like JR's grand daddy.
He passed away a couple years ago. JR told me and I was saddened. I asked if it was cancer. JR said, "No, he was repairin' the roof on his barn and fell off!" the man was 92. I raise my mornin' quoffee to the good man who lived right. He was a civil war re-en-act-er every year as well...JR said he liked to point guns at people and pull the trigger ;-)).

So, this is gettin' l o n g  winded but I think I'm sayin' I have reached project density. The point where the time available line intersects with the numba of things that need doin' line, and it intersects in the gray region of the chart depectin' total daze remainin' on the physical earth before one is collected by either the grim reaper or Jesus (I am plannin' on the latter). So should I get all off in another tactical camper/war truck build I may not get the barn raised to a suitable height? And in time for the roof to fall into disrepair and subsequently require fixin' which would properly set the stage for my dramatic last flight? Why no, the crowd answers with a resoundin' roar!

Any of this make any sense? Probably not, but straight up answerin' is neither my style, nor the style of this august group of menses. So carry on, whilst (king's English) I look over trucks and try N' envent a way to git 1.

[stlaser]

Don, I was actually referring to Charles to build one. We’ve discussed a truck project for awhile off the forum. I think you Don should just buy a truck, fummins would be cool and you can buy them completed too.

[Flyin6]

Don, I was actually referring to Charles to build one. We’ve discussed a truck project for awhile off the forum. I think you Don should just buy a truck, fummins would be cool and you can buy them completed too.

Roger that

Maybe cash in some silver for the down payment, then never repay the balance due

;-))

[Flyin6]

I wouldn't get one, but while searching, I was reading about that 7.3 gasser in a tremor. Someone added a Paxton supercharger and it was doing mid five second 0-60 times

Insane!

[Mrwoody]

I'll leave this here

[Bob Smith]

If I had a spot for it and the funds to buy it I would bring that one home. As long ad Ken looked it over first and approved

[Bigdave_185]

Doesn’t that truck have a lower tow rating then his 2008?


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[Farmer Jon]

If I were going to buy a new dually it would be a dodge no question. We have an 09 on the farm and it is an absolute beast. Granted its deleted and tuned with a dual disk ceramic clutch. Neither my deleted and tuned LBZ or the bosses 13 duramax could handle anything near as well what that 6.7 can.  We have hauled loads across the scale weighing over 30,000 lbs and it pull that like a champ.

[Flyin6]

If I were going to buy a new dually it would be a dodge no question. We have an 09 on the farm and it is an absolute beast. Granted its deleted and tuned with a dual disk ceramic clutch. Neither my deleted and tuned LBZ or the bosses 13 duramax could handle anything near as well what that 6.7 can.  We have hauled loads across the scale weighing over 30,000 lbs and it pull that like a champ.

I was watching the TFL towing gauntlet where they tow up and down a big grade, and of the three big, the duramax was a trailing last for a 30K load. The Ford in my opinion and theirs was the best overall, but that simplified Cummins was a very close second. It had like no problem maintaining speed down grade requiring zero brake applications whereas the Chevy needed a bunch and even the Ford needed something like eight.
I may be doing something, as my 2500 will not legally pull a trailer with my compact track loader on it.

[KensAuto]

Come on man! I thought everything was legal in the tuck!

[Farmer Jon]

It's only illegal if you get caught.

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[Bigdave_185]

Take the shell off and use a goose neck, that gets you 22k doesn’t it?
Pretty sure mine is 18k

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[stlaser]

Stop, the cover is never coming off!!!!!!!!!!

[Flyin6]

Take the shell off and use a goose neck, that gets you 22k doesn’t it?
Pretty sure mine is 18k

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Hmmm...

[Flyin6]

Take the shell off and use a goose neck, that gets you 22k doesn’t it?
Pretty sure mine is 18k

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I just looked it up.

Gooseneck towing max is 16,500 for a LTZ crewcab 6.5' box with the 6.6

Which is way short of what I would be pulling. I need 19,000-20,000 or perhaps a bit more depending on how heavy the gooseneck is.

My load would be 12,000 + 2,000 + 900 (100 gal of fuel) and the trailer would be in the mid 5K range, so what, say 20,500lbs

[Bigdave_185]

No arguing but isn’t that the bumper for your rig not the bed?


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[Bigdave_185]

If you are correct I have way over loaded mine lol Iv had 20k on it    Scary as hell but dumb enough to do it


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[Flyin6]

No arguing but isn’t that the bumper for your rig not the bed?


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Dave, the numbers I posted according to the literature I read was for a fifth wheel or gooseneck towing configuration

[Flyin6]

I have been doing a lot of homework here

From many objective numbers it seems the Ford F350 is the best of the three trucks. It seems to tow more and can climb up steep roads while accelerating all the way up to and over 11,000 feet.

The Chevy seems the least capable. It has the lowest torque, and payload of the three and is hurting in the unassisted slowing or holding speed downhill.

The Ram is about the same fuel consumption as the Ford and actually has more torque now, although it still uses a 6-speed transmission. The Ram does have a sharp self leveling suspension that prevents squat with a lot of weight on the bumper or bed.

I haven't ruled out any truck at the moment, but the Chevy has moved to last place.

I think I am going to have to order the truck if I move ahead with all this since finding my exact combination will be impossible.

Tomorrow I am going to spec out a Ram to see what it would cost me, and the day after perhaps spec out a F350.

Not buying anything yet, but I need to see what this will possibly cost me before I can take the next step.

[Bigdave_185]

If your planing on running equipment out of a new ordered truck. I suggest you do everything you want and see if they let you put rubber floors in,  so much easier to clean out.   


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[Flyin6]

If your planing on running equipment out of a new ordered truck. I suggest you do everything you want and see if they let you put rubber floors in,  so much easier to clean out.   


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I just looked at the order form

Rubber flooring is an option

[Bigdave_185]

No reason to trip  over floor mats with muddy boots. Just skip em all together and rinse out with a garden hose as needed!

If I could find a rubber floor for my current I would.


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[Mrwoody]

Dave, I ordered OEM GM rubber floor mat for my 08 LTZ  was around 250-300 i think  been a few years.

[Bigdave_185]

I tried with mine years ago.   I was told the quad cab was not an option or not in available if I remember correctly


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[Farmer Jon]

Just get you something like this. Minus the dump bed. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/192308213/2006-gmc-topkick-c4500

This one is ready to work right now. https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/2005ChevroletC4500SACrewCabServiceTruck

[Flyin6]

Just get you something like this. Minus the dump bed. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/192308213/2006-gmc-topkick-c4500

This one is ready to work right now. https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/2005ChevroletC4500SACrewCabServiceTruck

Naw. Top kick trucks had loads of electrical issues

And

I don't feel like messing around with fixing someone else's junk

[Flyin6]

So, I spent most of the day at the Ram and the Ford dealership.

The Ram orders pretty easily, I mean there are not a burdensome number of selections to make. I found I really needed to be at the Big-Horn trim level to meet some of my needs. After specing the truck out I was at a before discount, asking price of nearly $73K

The biggies I wanted was the HO engine, AISIN 8-speed transmission, 50 gallon fuel tank, 4.10 gear, and Air leveling rear suspension. The rest of the stuff was just filler to make that work-capable truck a bit nicer to own and drive for the next 10+ years.

But the wrinkle is that order to delivery times run no less than four months. The dealership got a 3500 dually in yesterday that was ordered in October! so something like 3.5 months on that one. That may be a non starter, but I have not made any decisions just yet

Downsides about the Ram is:
Long lead time
High cost
Inability to really get into the weeds and order every little thing the way I want it

Pluses to the Ram are:
1075 ft/lbs and 420 HP
Cummins reputation
Very nice interior
Air suspension out back

Then I went on to the Ford store
Not being a Ford guy, I did not know what to expect.
After talking to Doug, the salesman he started to print out what amounted to a small book. That stack of I'd guess nearly 50 pages detailed every single little build code in the history of history. I mean seriously, you can spec out a truck to such a level of detail that is is quite the chore to keep it all organized in your mind. If you want black bed bolts holding the aft part of that truck to the frame, by golly, you can get it built that way...Not kidding!

So I spent the afternoon sorting through the stack of paperwork, and was able to discard perhaps 15 pages of things unique to the higher end trim levels that I will no be entertaining this go around.

I priced a F-350 Dually 4X4 crewcab XLT, and a Lariat which offered a better looking truck but stretched me up into the low $70's. The XLT stayed south of $70K by the slimmest of margins.

But here is the biggest surprise of the day. I priced a F450 and that sucker came in the cheapest of all in the high $67K range!!!!!!!!!
With discounts I may be in earshot of $60K for a brand new, what 1.25 ton truck??

I can only wonder why it is less than a similarly equipped F350, but it is. I suppose that so many things are standard on the 450 that production costs are less and we the consumer can benefit all the more. The 6.7 Power Stroke is standard. The 10 speed is standard. It has a standard 48 gallon fuel tank! It has 4.30 gears as the only ratio available. It comes with 19.5" 10 lug forged aluminum wheels as the only offering. BTW the more expensive F350 XLT had painted steel wheels and they cost more???!!! the 450 had all sorts of gadgets like emergency automatic braking and powered mirrors that the F350 charged extra for.

F450 dislikes:
Not many
I am not knowing and skittish over those 19.5 wheels
I am wondering what the 4.30 ratio may do to me in terms of fuel economy
Interior is sort of run of the mill, but above "Yawn" territory

Likes:
The price is the least of all the trucks
Towing and payload is off the charts, way up into CDL range
It really tows a lot
Did I mention it could pull anything??
Has a bunch of stuff standard that is optional in the F350

So, the next step is to tie the dealerships down to a specific price

[Bigdave_185]

I believe you auto insurance is different $$ with a 450, also I am not sure about your port of entry type stuff.   I think it’s a commercial vehicle at that point maybe?   Just ideas


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[Flyin6]

I believe you auto insurance is different $$ with a 450, also I am not sure about your port of entry type stuff.   I think it’s a commercial vehicle at that point maybe?   Just ideas


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hmmm good point, have to check that out

[Flyin6]

Nate, you listening??

What of this strange commercial truck angle Dave mentioned? Is the F450 in some strange class? Can I own/operate it as a farmer as a non commercial truck guy?

[Nate]

So that is tricky questions....

I have a few questions into a 7th sfg buddy of mine that litterally just took delivery of a 21 F450 in that blue.  He does run his own transport business and should have some answers?

[TexasRedNeck]

Unless you are towing 36000, I doubt you’ll see any difference in performance between the big three.  Hp and tq are just bench racing at the level they are all at today.

I’d look at longevity and comfort and maintenance.  The 10sp Allison is hard to beat.

I towed 16,000 up Bobcat pass in Red River NM at nearly 10,000 ft in my “old” LML 2013.  It wouldn’t have bothered me one bit to have 20k behind it.

Of course it was running a mild tune, but it was still a beast.  Passing slower cars towing a full profile 5er, I had to keep and eye on the speed. Once I was passing a old guy in a truck and looked down to see me doing almost 90 towing that trailer.

Don’t let the marketing hype fool you.  Buy what you like. Of course Ram comes in fire engine red...jus sayin.


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[stlaser]

I wouldn’t take a dodge chassis if you gave it to me, biggest pos out there unless something recently changed. Cummins is the only reason they sell those trucks and or price (but apparently not on the model you want). That 6.7 Cummins and Ford are both great motors from what I hear even at higher mileage.

[Bigdave_185]

I know my local GM sales guy has let me hook a trailer up to a truck and see how it does.  Maybe you can swing that?

I know it’s not a good idea being a dealership.   


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[Farmer Jon]

Don't fret the 19.5 wheels. You can get a more of commercial tire and be better off. A lot of Motor homes run that size and should be readily available at most tire shops.

[TexasRedNeck]

Even better they are available at truck stops/service centers and commercial road side service trucks.

They can be tough to balance but road force balancing is done at most shops


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[kampfitt]

Check out Big Truck Big Rv on YouTube he's got a 450 and done comparison to the Dodge 4500 and 3500 and Chevy Reg Cab 3500!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72bthGPeQSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOtjcYyVzA

[EL TATE]

ram 4500/5500 have continued front diff issues and are a small community college BA tuition to replace. just throwin that out there.

[Flyin6]

So that is tricky questions....

I have a few questions into a 7th sfg buddy of mine that litterally just took delivery of a 21 F450 in that blue.  He does run his own transport business and should have some answers?

OK, cool
I plan to just haul my equipment to from places where I will do volunteer work...ya know. I'd be pulling 20K and the truck weighs around 8K, so still under 30K total