REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Everything Trailer, Camper, or RV related => Topic started by: Flyin6 on February 27, 2015, 01:30:19 PM
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Many of you are aware of the issue that has developed with respect to my 2014 TDI Toureg
Volkswagen advertises this vehicle as being able to tow 7700 lbs which considering the vehicles great fuel mileage makes it a possible class leading tow vehicle. Those claims are, however false.
The TDI Toureg with it's abundant 400+ ft lbs of diesel torque can only tow 1650 pounds! If you add the weight of your lawn mower stacked on top of a smallish trailer, you are at or are exceeding that limit.
Now the Toureg can be made to reach it's full 7700 lb potential with the addition of some aftermarket electric brake device which we are all familiar with. VW, will, however, in the same breath tell you that they do not recommend any aftermarket parts or installer be used for the Toureg.
Did you hear that? You have to add a part, but you can't add the part! When I was talking to VW about all this, I asked them for the VW part number for the part that they would approve. Well, there is no such part. So basically the 7700 lbs towing figure is never actually intended to be used.
The representative I spoke with, Eric Wodowski, a very polite gentleman said that of course the Toureg was meant to tow, it is equipped with a tow package, but he acknowledged the discrepancies between actual towing capabilities and what is advertised.
I asked VW to take the Toureg back or offer some compensation since 50% of the reason I purchased the oureg I now find out that it can't actually do. The 7700 pound tow rating is nothing short of false advertising.
I'll publish more on this as the story develops. I am going to contact the DOT, Better business bureau, and any other civil and government groups I can to get some help and I will post the story as it develops.
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:( :'( Sorry you have to go through this Don. Sounds like a new rig for your wife.
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Obviously the VW crowd was addressing the obesity problem in the US and just designed it to tow 5 obese adults and their picnic basket........
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Keep us updated. While adding a brake controller is pretty standard to have to do (not so much i new vehicles i gather), the kicker is really the tongue weight and inability to use a weight distribution hitch. Just really poor form on VW's part.
This one hits home too... My brother and sister in law traded in their F150 and their Subaru and consolidated down to the diesel Toureg, partly because of it's "towing ability" despite being a small SUV... I became aware of this information, and was dreading the conversation with them too. However, before they bought anything substantial to tow with it above their small utility trailer, life threw them a curve in the form of a 3rd kiddo and they had to get a mini-van.
Hope this works out for you Don. I've been very anti-VW for a long time... This is just further fuel for me.
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.......Hope this works out for you Don. I've been very anti-VW for a long time... This is just further fuel for me.
You and me both. Their quality has fallen off the deep end in the last decade, and I despise working on them....they remind me of the old, oil leaking, Renault Alliances that won "Car of the Year" back when.
rant over
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I was going to ask you if you ever heard back from the letter you sent them.
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.......Hope this works out for you Don. I've been very anti-VW for a long time... This is just further fuel for me.
You and me both. Their quality has fallen off the deep end in the last decade, and I despise working on them....they remind me of the old, oil leaking, Renault Alliances that won "Car of the Year" back when.
rant over
Darn Ken, that is going back in time.
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I have contacted the Attorney General of Kentucky.
I believe that first VW is engaging in deceptive or false advertising.
Secondly I am raising a safety concern. How many Toureg owners out there falsely believe they are safe towing their 6K camper or boat? None of them are safe according to VW. Perhaps They/I will elevate it to DOT, the feds to do an enquiry.
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.......Hope this works out for you Don. I've been very anti-VW for a long time... This is just further fuel for me.
You and me both. Their quality has fallen off the deep end in the last decade, and I despise working on them....they remind me of the old, oil leaking, Renault Alliances that won "Car of the Year" back when.
rant over
oh that's harsh, Ken! I spit coffee out my nose when I read that...
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That blows Don. If they don't take it back or comp you big time you should get get a nice "class action" suit started.
Heck, do you local stations that scam stuff. Imagine if that got into the national scene.
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Glad you discovered all this before buying another camper based upon those erroneous parameters. Will you be looking towards the Dodge 1/2 ton diesel p/u to replace the Turdreg?
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Glad you discovered all this before buying another camper based upon those erroneous parameters. Will you be looking towards the Dodge 1/2 ton diesel p/u to replace the Turdreg?
I don't know...
I don't like taking the hit from a new vehicle purchase. Only works out if you actually keep it. Planned to run the Toureg out, then let the pre-rangers wear it out some more.
I need to win this thing with VW to come out.
I could still entertain a smaller Lance pulled by C-Max for event travel, but the mileage of the D-Max is no where near the VW.
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I don't know...
I don't like taking the hit from a new vehicle purchase. Only works out if you actually keep it. Planned to run the Toureg out, then let the pre-rangers wear it out some more.
I need to win this thing with VW to come out.
I could still entertain a smaller Lance pulled by C-Max for event travel, but the mileage of the D-Max is no where near the VW.
Couldn't you sell the VW? Not like you've abused it and neglected the required maintenance. It might help offset the pain of a new vehicle purchase.
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I don't know...
I don't like taking the hit from a new vehicle purchase. Only works out if you actually keep it. Planned to run the Toureg out, then let the pre-rangers wear it out some more.
I need to win this thing with VW to come out.
I could still entertain a smaller Lance pulled by C-Max for event travel, but the mileage of the D-Max is no where near the VW.
Couldn't you sell the VW? Not like you've abused it and neglected the required maintenance. It might help offset the pain of a new vehicle purchase.
Well, I could, but getting a good price for it on the used car market would show me a 10K loss!
That's way too much pain to endure.
I win this thing with VW or I'm stuck. But I think I will bring the full weight of the consequences of this false advertising down on them. Oddly enough I happen to be meeting with a huge law firm this week for a class action suit...not VW related. They are a big firm. They like to take down big things.
The way I see it, VW has and is jeopardizing the safety of thousands of owners who are under the misconception that they can safely tow 7700 lbs. I have a great deal of mileage on this one. There are agencies on top of agencies to contact yet
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Don, anything happening with the VW group
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Don, anything happening with the VW group
Yes quite a bit actually
I made a case with the Kentucky state attorney
They sent the obligatory letters and even the dealership is washing their hands of it.
So far everyone concedes that the Toureg can not do what VW says it can without being unsafe, causing vehicle damage, and exceeding factory limitations.
I like it otherwise so the way I think I'll frame this up is to figure out what percentage of the vehicle mileage I would have spent towing. That will represent a percentage. I'll use that percentage against the price I paid. I believe they should refund me that amount, and we can walk away from it. Me using that extra money on fuel, wear and tear, and tires for the Duramax which will now have to be pressed into service pulling the little camper.
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If you haven't bought the little trailer yet, do you really need it since the VW won't tow it. Just keep pulling the larger trailer with the Duramax. More room for the family and the truck won't care at all.
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No little camper means, more truck parts, which means more build thread!
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Update? Potentially looking for new ride....
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Update? Potentially looking for new ride....
In process
Talking to the attorney General for Kentucky
Awaiting response from VW
I have offered they refund 1/3rd the price of the vehicle to me to cover for the third of it's intended useage I don't have or simply give me a refund and take back the thing, their choice.
It's a process...
Hello Shawn...good to see ya droppin' in!
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Busy, sorry to not be keepin up on my DOT responsibilities........
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Busy, sorry to not be keepin up on my DOT responsibilities........
Don't be that guy
Always remember: Don't DOT
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Any update?
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Any update?
The dealership has been found to be not at fault, a finding I agree with.
Clearly VW of America has tried to pull a fast one on the American public. I wrote the State's attorney's office about my feelings concerning the deception and the unsafe condition for which VW is still advertising.
They have written VW America. VW of America has written back to say that they are looking into the matter.
If this gets elevated to a national stage VW might have to recall all Toureg or face a class action which I would sponsor.
In my view, 1/3rd of the reason I purchased the Toureg in lieu of a Dodge 1500 eco diesel was to drag a trailer around to conferences, shows, meetings and talks on behalf of Real Man. Since I can't do that, but in sharp contrast, the Toureg is one of the best SUV's made and a wonderful car to drive to church and places, I have no problem in keeping it. However VW should refund me 1/3 the price of the vehicle, or just take it back and refund me all my money, their choice. I have offered that through the states attorney office
We are waiting...
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Progress, no matter the size or speed, is still progress. Thanks and keep it up.
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Update 06112015
VW America sent a letter to the state attorney of KY stating the vehicle can tow 7700 lbs. I protested that and am asking the states attorney if they agree that there is a case for false advertising.
With respect to the safety issue, I have elevated the issue/complaint to the federal level. The first call was to the US Department of transportation, vehicle safety. After chatting for some time, I was referred to an investigative arm of that agency. We are currently exchanging facts and framing up this situation.
A Toureg can clearly not tow the weight they advertise it can, so in the interim, until we maybe get a national recall, if you know a VW Toureg owner please advise them of this so that they do not attempt to tow anything. Feel free to point them back to me, as I will now serve as the spokesperson for this "Case" if it gets going.
I still have letters to send to my congressmen, who will not help and my senators who probably won't either, and the Governor of my state.
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Sadly Don, no one in the media cares until someone dies. If you can find someone that has dies or been maimed as a result of the safety issues you cite, then and only then will the media and your elected representative take note
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Sadly Don, no one in the media cares until someone dies. If you can find someone that has dies or been maimed as a result of the safety issues you cite, then and only then will the media and your elected representative take note
I'll report this and get it off my conscience
I have found my state government to be pretty much no help what so ever
Same for my congressman. When I had that tussle with the IRS, my congressman was so locked down in rule following that they couldn't do anything. I had to do all the groundwork myself and took care of the thing totally by myself.
The Kentucky Attorney general's office simply passed me off, it is my belief that they really don't want to help.
Concerning government, folks, I believe we are really on our own against a fat, diseased, uncaring leviathan that is not coming to help anytime soon.
Thought to consider. Times are relatively good right now and we get little help from our very costly governments. How do you think things will go if there is a major calamity?
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They will surround themselves with police and military personnel for security and issue orders to ensure there own comfort while limiting/eliminating your freedoms in the process. All in the name of "providing for our welfare." I know I am preaching to the choir but I had to rant.
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If you're drinkin' quoffee while writing that it could be qualified as CIEMR material!
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As a matter of fact, I was.
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As a matter of fact, I was.
Well, in that case you might have to post a demerit for postin' in the wrong area... ;-))
This chat stuff is pretty silly...especially for us soldiers
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Wilco. You should see what I posted in the Gun Quote thread.
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Doesn't the NTSB list accidents and break it down to the vehicle? At least you could see then if there are towing issues reported so either the press or some official may look at
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Doesn't the NTSB list accidents and break it down to the vehicle? At least you could see then if there are towing issues reported so either the press or some official may look at
I'm currently in the office of the DOT called "Import Certification" Bunch of engineer types. Talking to them on the phone, I could tell they were doing the math and it wasn't addin' up.
I'll work with these folks and see what shakes out
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If you want to reach out to people towing or planning to tow with the Toureg, on RV.Net forums, send me a PM and I will send you my username and password. Or sign up for your own account. There is a section on tow vehicles or maybe one of the other sections you think would be a better fit. I would post it for you but if you post it you already know what to write.
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Sadly Don, no one in the media cares until someone dies. If you can find someone that has dies or been maimed as a result of the safety issues you cite, then and only then will the media and your elected representative take note
I'll report this and get it off my conscience
I have found my state government to be pretty much no help what so ever
Same for my congressman. When I had that tussle with the IRS, my congressman was so locked down in rule following that they couldn't do anything. I had to do all the groundwork myself and took care of the thing totally by myself.
The Kentucky Attorney general's office simply passed me off, it is my belief that they really don't want to help.
Concerning government, folks, I believe we are really on our own against a fat, diseased, uncaring leviathan that is not coming to help anytime soon.
Thought to consider. Times are relatively good right now and we get little help from our very costly governments. How do you think things will go if there is a major calamity?
Play to their fears, Don. Let them know that their inaction on an issue of public safety has been documented and should you uncover deaths due to this issue that you will make sure that every media outlet knows that they failed to act to protect the public which they were elected to serve.
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Don, any update on the VW?
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Don, any update on the VW?
Yes,
Apparently our Toureg fell into the EPA funny business list.
As such VW initially has offered us a placebo of a $500 debit card and $500 credit for service at the stealership.
They are leaving the door open for repair, arbitration and or buying back the vehicle. We will take door numba three. My plan would then be to get her a Merc and call it a day.
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yeah I would rather have a Merc-Ury as well. :)
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My plan would then be to get her a Merc and call it a day.
Can't go wrong with a Mercury... you thinkin Grand Marquis? ;D ;D
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get her a Merc and
And cruise it up and down the road?
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Now with ah four barrel carb
and dual exhaust
and four- eleven gears
you can really get lost!
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Crazy 'bout a Mercury...
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Not sure I'm down with the mercury. I would rock an explorer sport
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Not sure I'm down with the mercury. I would rock an explorer sport
Merc = Mercedes
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Oh. Gotcha. durn piluts gotta have an acronym/abbreviation for everything. That's how the wrong stuff gets blown up. Gotta be more clear.
My wife loves her GL diesel. Havent towed with it yet but would like to see how it handles a load.
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Not sure I'm down with the mercury. I would rock an explorer sport
Merc = Mercedes
Most people would refer to them as a Benz.
Merc is generally shorthand for Mercury. Geez Alan Jackson even wrote the song about a Mercury... not a Mercedes..
Pilots... ::)
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Wow, very well articulated arguement. Now, where's that popcorn button again?
Not sure I'm down with the mercury. I would rock an explorer sport
Merc = Mercedes
Most people would refer to them as a Benz.
Merc is generally shorthand for Mercury. Geez Alan Jackson even wrote the song about a Mercury... not a Mercedes..
Pilots... ::)
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Not sure I'm down with the mercury. I would rock an explorer sport
Merc = Mercedes
Most people would refer to them as a Benz.
Merc is generally shorthand for Mercury. Geez Alan Jackson even wrote the song about a Mercury... not a Mercedes..
Pilots... ::)
My experience seems to be more with that of the British. There a Mercedes is called a Merc!
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I was just quoting Alan Jackson to DOT up your thread... :P
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...and i was just being a smart......alick...alex...allique. Oh, whatever.
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Don- I just had a thought given the inaction from the politicians (not that I would stop dealing with the agencies as they might be able to make something happen). But you might try your vehicle insurer. If you crash they are on the hook. They certainly would want to know if they are insuring a whole class of unsafe vehicles. As an insurer they have more to lose than some govt bureaucrat.
ETA: They are still advertising significant weight towing capability:
The Touareg boasts a 280-hp 3.6L V6 engine perfect for touring or hauling when you need it.5 The 4MOTION® all-wheel drive and an advanced steering system can help you stay in control of all that power.6
•4MOTION® all-wheel drive
•280-hp 3.6L V6 engine 5
•8-speed automatic transmission
•Up to 7,716 lbs. of towing capacity
http://www.vw.com/models/touareg/?cid=sem_6WA5ZY9V_11240433379_c
ETA2: You also might try Consumer Reports. I am guessing they would pay a lot of attention.
Other entities who might "take up" the fight:
http://onlinetowingguide.com/tests/2004VolkswagenTouareg.html
http://www.onlinetowingguide.com/tests/2010VWTouaregTDI.html
(same entity different stories both pushing the 7700 lb capacity)
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My experience seems to be more with that of the British. There a Mercedes is called a Merc!
Yes, well all things considered my good man, we DOTs are American! We shan't be responsible for your hoity toity vocabulary causing a wee bit of a misunderstanding amongst us.
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Bob's your uncle
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bob's your uncle
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stiff upper lip ol'boy
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Where are we on this process?
Do you still have the VW? I can't say I'm surprised that your local politicians couldn't (wouldn't) help you.
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I have a Jetta and it is my first and last car I will ever own from vw. Pure garbage cars
Raising boys into RealMen!!
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Where are we on this process?
Do you still have the VW? I can't say I'm surprised that your local politicians couldn't (wouldn't) help you.
We still own it...I am making payments on it. It is a heck of a great SUV, best I've ever driven, however the fact that It can't tow but 1500 ish pounds where they advertise a 7700 towing ability turns my stomach.
You see what companies do these days is to use the narrowest of definitions to rate something. My Toureg could theoretically latch onto a stalled truck, say that weighed 7700, with a tow strap and pull it a short distance. But you absolutely cannot place more than 618 lbs of weight onto the hitch.
So using DOT standards that say tongue weight is equal to 10%-15% of total weight, how then could you tow a 7700 trailer which had a tongue weight from 770-1155 pounds?
So in the real world you can't do it, however in the strictist of definitions, you can.
They are liars and false advertisers!
So I offered them a deal which I think would have been fair.
Since I purchased the thing wanting to buy a Lance camper and pull it around the US, I estimate about 1/3rd of the Toureg's time would be spent towing. Since I can't actually do that now, I esentially lost 1/3 of what I purchased the thing to do.
I offered that they refund me 1/3rd of my purchase price, or, simply refund my purchase price and take the thing back, their call.
Is that fair?
They balked and Jack Conway, Kentucky's useless attorney general did nothing to help me. Politicians are only interested in helping those who help them first. They lie to us all the time.
I have no use for dishonesty...
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Ahhh, the difference between "towing" and "hauling"... They have chosen to obscure their position between the definition of those two very different things.
The devil's greatest trick has been to convince people that he doesn't exist.