New Tesla

[Flyin6]

Good argument
But
Big gov is always going to put the screws to oil and cause anything but falling or stable prices. With a choice between vehicles, one being ICE and the other electric, I think you remain in the safe zone while hedging the current cheaper electricity prices. In all fairness, I would note a recent annual cost increase of electricity of 15%
That's huge and if we end up with another democratic regime overthrowing the will of Americans a mandatory closure of coal plants will cause rolling brownouts along with ever-increasing energy costs.

Duane is in the beginning stages of building a complete energy-independent power scheme. He plans to buy more of those "power generators which are lithium battery packs charged by the sun. He has four panels and one 3600-watt battery. He wants to see if another 3600 and two additional 2000-watt batteries can charge up enough to power enough of his home and toss a few hundred miles into the T-car.

If you look at the whole financial picture, right now I'd say owning a good electric car makes bank. Duane purchased his model 3 for $56K. Used ones around here are now fetching 71K min, and upwards of 79K. So, you could save a crap ton in gas by not buying any for a few years, then sell the car for a solid $10K over your costs of purchase. If you look at that and your Camry example, where you wouldn't get half of that $40K investment, the T-car starts to really look like a smart call

[Flyin6]

I was watching technology videos on that car yesterday.

It is so far ahead of almost every other car on earth it isn't funny. I heard two scientists/engineers say that somehow Tesla seems to have redefined physics with the motor. That motor I just found out is the same in model 3 and the plaid. Only the control panel mechanism is different. Therefore, it is just a matter of time before there are a bunch of 8.8-second Model 3's running around! Someone's gunna crack the code on the programming.

And this new motor is so advanced that this engineering firm which bought a Tesla and is reverse engineering it is selling parts of it to BMW, Toyota, and others. Somehow Tesla has managed to convert almost all of the negative/wasted energy (Heat) back into electricity which is then stored in the battery pack (again.)

There is some breakthrough stuff on the horizon with this company. Just look at the range differences between that new supercar that goes 350+ MPH and my Model 3 which can travel 315 miles, has a top speed of 162 and a quarter mile in the 11.50's. That new car has a range of 620 miles!!!!!!!!
Nothing on earth can do that...Nothing. It was rumored that Elon has a new super battery, but is withholding it for now...

Another thing is how fast that company evolves the design. How long has the Model 3 been around? Was it 2017? 2018? Well it was a bunch of aluminum panels all bonded together when first conceived. The second design, which was all secret btw, was never announced as a major redesign, introduced the car having the entire back half as a single casting!!! An aluminum casting! But he was not done. about 18 months later the front end also became a one-piece aluminum casting. The car chassis is actually only three pieces!

The motors have been redesigned three times as well. Remember the thing that had 450HP? Well, there was some modification, and it was then 472hp. Then something else and it was 495hp. I saw an early 2022 car placed on the dyno and it was putting down 522 to the wheel. In Camaro language that would be around 700 crank HP! And the car just got this ultra-Ailen-designed new motor... If it is the same one they are putting in their supercar, it can make 10,000 NM of torque...That's 7,375 ft-lbs. That's no joke but I'm pretty sure the actual output is held far short of the theoretical or measured maximum. That could briskly move a semi, not a 4,300 car.

I also discovered the motor controller is shipped with an explosive charge factory installed!!!!! It turns out that if the thing fails to respond to attempts to shut it down, a program running in the background will fire an explosive charge which separates the heavy copper bus cables permanently interrupting the power supply.

[Flyin6]

So this brings up a good discussion, that being: How much torque can a ICE produce in the drivetrain?

I discovered that a transmission can multiply torque by three times or more.

So if an engine is capable of 300 ft/lbs of torque, we could see 900 ft/lbs at the transmission output.

Then there's the differential. There are no 1:1 ratios so there is multiplication going on there.

A 4.10 is a bit more than a 4:1 multiplication, so our 900 ft-lbs. can be turned into 3,600 ft-lbs. felt at the axle flange...sound right so far?

So a sports car making 3,600 in low gear with its 4.10 rear axle can run high 13-second quarter mile times, I can begin to understand why the Tesla is so much faster.

First of all, it makes double the amount of power...DOUBLE

Next, it has no driveline losses. Not much of a transmission, just three physical gears that reduce its 18,000 rpm down to something usable and that is also where a lot of that torque is coming from.

But that is one of the huge differences right there...It is always in first gear.

An ICE makes peak torque somewhere around 66% of maximum engine speed, but an electric motor makes all of its torque at 1 rpm or at 18,000 or anywhere in between.

That's the second reason why the Tesla car is so fast. when cruising at 60mph when you step on the pedal, you get 7,375-newton meters applied to a car which, surprisingly, is not all that heavy. Taking off from 60 feels like someone just hit you in the rear bumper doing 10mph. It's instant.

No ICE is ever going to be able to compete with this new spark-powered stuff. It's just not physically possible.

[TexasRedNeck]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qx8z/tesla-fans-mad-over-video-of-tesla-mowing-down-toddler-mannequin-in-full-self-driving-mode

Saw these ads running this week for this guy lobbying against the self driving sofware.  Always going to be haters.

How many humans run over kids?

One problem with electric cars is their connectivity and the lack of privacy.  If I want to jump in my old truck without my phone I can get off the radar.  Or I can drop my phone in a faraday bag.  Car not so much.


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[Flyin6]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qx8z/tesla-fans-mad-over-video-of-tesla-mowing-down-toddler-mannequin-in-full-self-driving-mode

Saw these ads running this week for this guy lobbying against the self driving sofware.  Always going to be haters.

How many humans run over kids?

One problem with electric cars is their connectivity and the lack of privacy.  If I want to jump in my old truck without my phone I can get off the radar.  Or I can drop my phone in a faraday bag.  Car not so much.


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Kinda like the "X" planes.
Someone's gotta be first
And being first is usually fraught with issues

I like what the 2-2 SAS uses for their motto:

"Who dares, wins"

Tesla for the win

But I like privacy too.

Oh, and you don't necessarily need your phone. One of the credit card/keys can operate the car too.

[Flyin6]

I find this stuff fascinating.

The more I learn about the car and the company the more I am blown away by this innovation.

I was reading this morning about the new battery (which I will not have which will increase the range of a model 3 to well over 400 miles per charge.

I have been focusing on longevity this morning and this is what I have been finding:

Drive unit: Not sure about the other models, but model 3 has recently completed a million-mile test loop. It was torn down and found to have no significant wear! It was reassembled and will be reinstalled to see what, if any are the actual limits.

Tesla is putting out that their drive unit is good for a million miles or more. Their batteries are good for 1,500 cycles which roughly equates to 500,000 miles before it reaches the minimum threshold of still maintaining 70% capacity. Those were actual design criteria and theoretical when the things were created. But now with over a million Tesla cars on the road, there is a mountain of actual data. And the result of that data is striking. The actual lifespan of the battery seems to be much greater than the prediction. One example after 150,000 miles had only lost around 10% capacity but the rate of loss was on the front end and had seemed to level off. It was pointing to a 750K mile point to where the battery was down to a 240-mile range. Incidentally, if you buy a BMW, the car along with most of the rest does not even have a 240-mile range to start with

One engineer I was listening to summed up the introduction and explosive growth of Tesla by saying, "Copy Tesla or die!" Pretty profound, but likely the truth. Tesla is now becoming the largest car manufacturer on earth and there are four more giga-factories coming online. If GM/ford and the rest don't pick up the pace they are going to become displays at the Smithsonian Museum of natural history.

There is a vast wealth of untapped performance built-in Tesla cars. The motors and systems are limited by software. For example, my model 3 has a top speed of 162mph. Why 162? Is it all the motors will produce? Well, the model 3 motor, which is also used in the Plaid Model S is limited to 18,000 RPM. But in the Plaid it is allowed to spin to 24,000 Rpm.

But then this just happened. Tesla just released a carbon ceramic brake package for my Model 3 performance. The rumor is, have those installed and the factory will move your top speed up to 200mph!

There is so much to see here...

[Flyin6]

I've been getting texts from Tesla starting at 0800 this AM. My car is in Cincinnati, and I get to pick it up tomorrow morning. I'm sporting quite the sore back, but I'd say I am otherwise, pretty stoked awaiting that first sight.

I decided I will start a new thread with the pickup and delivery pics of the car, then document my experience with the thing over time.

[stlaser]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-hiking-supercharger-prices-significantly-across-europe

[Flyin6]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-hiking-supercharger-prices-significantly-across-europe

Good FYI

But that's europe.

THey had $5+ gas when we were at $2

Europe is mostly socialist, and mostly stupid

Saying the increasing supercharger prices are beginning to narrow the gap between gas cars and Teslas is true... I mean you were paying $700 a month for your car in gas and the Tesla owner was paying $50. Now the Tesla owner will pay $75...See what I mean.

Finally, the US is a much different circumstance. I can see the socialists are trying to catch us up with Europeans who all pay way too much for everything, but we are just a different circumstance. Kind of like a bunch of big/dangerous hard-to-move bulls. Gunna take some time and effort to make huge sweeping changes to us I think. Europeans are not fighters, except for the Muslims in France. Most people just keep choking on the bottle from a very oppressive guberment from what I've experienced living there.

[JR]

Well, remember about 1/3 of that $$ for fuel is taxes, which EV don't pay. Free carpool lanes, etc. Not trying to be a hater but the road still costs XXX to maintain and build and EVs do not pay their share.

[Bob Smith]

Received an email and thought I would share. [/i][/b][/font]
[/color][/size][/i][/b][/font]
[/color]Just so you know what it takes to make[/size][/i][/b][/font][/color] [/size][/color]1[/size][/u][/i][/b][/color] [/size][/color]Tesla auto battery pack…[/size][/i][/b][/color]OMG!!![/size][/i][/b][/color][/size]
[/color] [/size][/font]
[/color]A machine like this is required to move 500 tons of earth/ ore which will be refined into one lithium car battery. It burns 900-1000[/size][/font] gallons of fuel in a 12 hour shift. Lithium is refined from ore using sulfuric acid.[/color][/size]
[/color]The proposed lithium mine at Thacker Pass, Nevada is estimated to require up to 75 semi loads of sulfuric acid a day! The acid does not turn into unicorn food like AOC believes.[/size][/font][/color][/size]
[/color]Refining lithium has created several EPA SUPERFUND SITES. IT IS VERY VERY VERY TOXIC TO THE ENVIRONMENT !!![/size][/font][/color][/size]
[/color]A battery in an electric car,lets say an average Tesla, is made of 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic, etc...... averaging 750-1,000 pounds of minerals, that had to be mined and processed into a battery that merely stores electricity..... Electricity which is generated by oil, gas, coal, or water (and a tiny fraction of wind and solar)....and then wears out[/size][/font][/color]…[/size][/color][/size][/color]and you buy another battery pack for $13,000–$[/size][/color]20[/size][/b][/color],000[/size][/b][/color][/size][/color]dollars.[/size][/b][/color][/size]
[/color]   [/size][/font]
[/color]NOW GO ENJOY YOUR ELECTRIC VEHICLE![/size][/i][/b][/font][/color][/size]
[/color] [/size][/font]

[wyorunner]

Received an email and thought I would share. [/i][/b][/font]
[/color][/size][/i][/b][/font]
[/color]Just so you know what it takes to make[/size][/i][/b][/font][/color] [/size][/color]1[/size][/u][/i][/b][/color] [/size][/color]Tesla auto battery pack…[/size][/i][/b][/color]OMG!!![/size][/i][/b][/color][/size]
[/color] [/size][/font]
[/color]A machine like this is required to move 500 tons of earth/ ore which will be refined into one lithium car battery. It burns 900-1000[/size][/font] gallons of fuel in a 12 hour shift. Lithium is refined from ore using sulfuric acid.[/color][/size]
[/color]The proposed lithium mine at Thacker Pass, Nevada is estimated to require up to 75 semi loads of sulfuric acid a day! The acid does not turn into unicorn food like AOC believes.[/size][/font][/color][/size]
[/color]Refining lithium has created several EPA SUPERFUND SITES. IT IS VERY VERY VERY TOXIC TO THE ENVIRONMENT !!![/size][/font][/color][/size]
[/color]A battery in an electric car,lets say an average Tesla, is made of 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic, etc...... averaging 750-1,000 pounds of minerals, that had to be mined and processed into a battery that merely stores electricity..... Electricity which is generated by oil, gas, coal, or water (and a tiny fraction of wind and solar)....and then wears out[/size][/font][/color]…[/size][/color][/size][/color]and you buy another battery pack for $13,000–$[/size][/color]20[/size][/b][/color],000[/size][/b][/color][/size][/color]dollars.[/size][/b][/color][/size]
[/color]   [/size][/font]
[/color]NOW GO ENJOY YOUR ELECTRIC VEHICLE![/size][/i][/b][/font][/color][/size]
[/color] [/size][/font]

This is the understanding normal thinking individuals have, the aoc types, can’t comprehend these facts. Doesn’t eliminate the fact they are still nice vehicles we didn’t personally buy one because it’s “green” because that would be lying to myself, and I don’t like doing that!

[Bob Smith]

They are very nice indeed. It is too bad the battery build takes so much energy and material

[Flyin6]

Bob, I'm not singling you out, just refuting the essay

Persuasive
A one-sided argument (persuasive) essay is one in which the writer attempts to persuade the audience to agree with their thesis. It usually includes counter-arguments (the opposing views) which the writer refutes in order to make his/her arguments stronger. How is it different from a two-sided argument essay?

Although I find myself in the middle of this argument, regarding the above statement about how polluting it is to manufacture a lithium car battery, to look at the total picture, and in all fairness, we would have to look at both sides of the argument.

First of all, electric cars are here and are coming on in a big way. The amount of lithium is finite so there will be a finite number of lithium batteries available to power them. Someone somewhere is going to build all the lithium batteries they can and shove them into cars. Now we can limit ourselves from being the country that uses this new technology. Should that happen, someone else will simply fill the void. I suspect that void would be happily filled by the Chinese and the Europeans. So, if electric cars are going to be built, why shouldn't we enjoy their use, why shouldn't the factories be built in the US and why shouldn't everyday Americans be employed in this massively expanding industry?

Second point: Lithium car batteries are now old technology. a new battery made from iron is coming in instead. It is just a matter of time before everyone else catches up with Tesla in implementing it.

The comment in the lead essay would seem to suggest the EV is the sole evil perpetrator of all this environmental poisoning. I would suggest, however, that far more lithium batteries get shoved into electric battery packs of drills, saws, Nailers, weed trimmers, and every other conceivable tool. So, then shouldn't everyone reading this article which seems to point to electric car owners as some scourge on the planet, be equally at blame? Is there anyone reading this who doesn't own a battery-powered tool?

Next, Lithium car batteries are recyclable. It's technologically possible but not economically feasible. That was at least until we started building over a million EVs a year. Soon, as lithium deposits dry up or become more costly, the harvesting of the material from old batteries will come back into focus.

Next, let's look at all those horrible emissions numbers. In the essay, we see all the bad news. But what about the other side? A tesla car is built to go about one million miles. So let's just say it goes half that, 500,000 miles. Comparing it to the usual car/truck getting 20MPG, the Tesla saves 25,000 gallons of gas. Gas which is then available for other efficient cars and lawnmowers and things like that.

Did you know that a gallon of gas weighs 6.3 pounds? Of that 6.3 pounds, 5.5 is carbon! 5.5 pounds times 25,000 gallons means every Tesla living just half its life will pump 137,500 fewer pounds of carbon out the tailpipe! (There isn't a tailpipe!) And it gets better. You see that 6.3 pounds of liquid have to combine with a whole lot of air to actually burn. Normally 13 parts air to one part of gas. Therefore, for every gallon of gas, we burn 19 pounds of CO and CO2 goes out the tailpipe and into the air! So, our half-life Tesla would save 475,000 pounds of CO and CO2 over its gas counterpart.

It may just be me, but it seems overwhelmingly in favor of a well-designed EV. It will save you money operating it daily. It brings highly paid jobs to America. It pollutes far, far less than petroleum ICE engines and is about 100% recyclable. Add to that the fact that Lithium will soon be overshadowed by new iron phosphate batteries and well, I'll just let the facts speak for themselves

[JR]

Thats why in the whole sceme of things, a full size diesel use less energy to build and has less total impact overall than EV cars.

I still think EV is cool, but the batteries are still the issue.

[TexasRedNeck]

This topic is like religion or politics. So polarizing for many.

Capitalism will prevail even after the subsidies are gone. Oil has subsidies too BTW

I still believe the hydrogen fuel cell will eventually take over and that will be a game changer

And there is a Li recycling plant in OH and the technology for more efficient process is evolving quickly.


What bothers me the self righteous attitude of many EV owners when the facts aren’t on their side.

Call me when you have enough solar on your house to be off the grid while charging your EV.

I did look seriously at the Y. Just would like to be able to tow 7k across country and that won’t do it.


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[JR]

Right there with you TRN. SO far all trucks for towing anything have been big flop.

[Flyin6]

This topic is like religion or politics. So polarizing for many.

Capitalism will prevail even after the subsidies are gone. Oil has subsidies too BTW

I still believe the hydrogen fuel cell will eventually take over and that will be a game changer

And there is a Li recycling plant in OH and the technology for more efficient process is evolving quickly.


What bothers me the self righteous attitude of many EV owners when the facts aren’t on their side.

Call me when you have enough solar on your house to be off the grid while charging your EV.

I did look seriously at the Y. Just would like to be able to tow 7k across country and that won’t do it.


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Yea, copy all that.

Like Turner and Duane, I for one did not buy the Tesla to be or go green. In my area, Coal runs the power plants that generate the voltage I shove into the car, and I am 100% good with that. Coal is and should remain a principal means to generate electricity. The whole idea of a billion electric cars saving the planet from greenhouse emissions is so wrong it makes me ill. China generates electricity with coal. While we have a referendum on more coal plants, China has plans to build about 700 more, I think. And that is just China. What about India? think they give a hoot about poisoning the atmosphere? No chance. So those billion new electric cars, most of which will be Chinese and of poor manufacture, will be the very reason all those new coal plants pump billions of more tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

I can't do anything about any of that, and I guess I really don't care. I purchased my Tesla because I really like the car. I like driving an 11-second grocery-getter that costs me $30 a month to operate. I just like the car and how it drives and looks.

[JR]

Well, Europe is looking back into running coal again with Putins games.

Heck the new green trend is shutting down Natual gas plants and home use. Look at all the all electric only homes being

Nuclear is still the cheapest way to go but greenies hate that.

[TexasRedNeck]

There is a college level course lecture on audible. The Science of Energy from the Great Courses. It’s a 18 hour course but we’ll worth it to be really well informed about energy of all kinds


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[wyorunner]

There is a college level course lecture on audible. The Science of Energy from the Great Courses. It’s a 18 hour course but we’ll worth it to be really well informed about energy of all kinds


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I will have to find this.

Also, I agree that if the hydrogen fuel cell is allowed to be pushed into main stream, it will be the best. But for now, I’ll use coal and natural gas to get a large amount of angry pixies to spin the wheels