2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap

[TexasRedNeck]

Ouch


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[stlaser]

Greyhound called yesterday evening, told me they had a package to pickup and were open at 6am today.

Headed down around 6 and went to terminal, only thing there was a bunch of stinky homeless people. I have a new appreciation for first responders dealing with them as my wife used to in the ER. Then called guy back from last night whom I never received pickup address from. Ended up going to greyhound maintenance garage for pickup about a mile up the road.

They were packaged very well and no damage. These are 3”+ bulge fenders and have 2” more opening clearance of the wheel well tire area.

Good idea Utah Dave


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[Bigdave_185]

Can’t wait to see em on!


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[Flyin6]

Greyhound called yesterday evening, told me they had a package to pickup and were open at 6am today.

Headed down around 6 and went to terminal, only thing there was a bunch of stinky homeless people. I have a new appreciation for first responders dealing with them as my wife used to in the ER. Then called guy back from last night whom I never received pickup address from. Ended up going to greyhound maintenance garage for pickup about a mile up the road.

They were packaged very well and no damage. These are 3”+ bulge fenders and have 2” more opening clearance of the wheel well tire area.

Good idea Utah Dave


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Warning: This could place into question your good judgment...

...You taking advice from a Dave...

;-)


But I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bigdave_185]

Greyhound called yesterday evening, told me they had a package to pickup and were open at 6am today.

Headed down around 6 and went to terminal, only thing there was a bunch of stinky homeless people. I have a new appreciation for first responders dealing with them as my wife used to in the ER. Then called guy back from last night whom I never received pickup address from. Ended up going to greyhound maintenance garage for pickup about a mile up the road.

They were packaged very well and no damage. These are 3”+ bulge fenders and have 2” more opening clearance of the wheel well tire area.

Good idea Utah Dave


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Warning: This could place into question your good judgment...

...You taking advice from a Dave...

;-)


But I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I recall.  You have a time or two also,  mirrors on that gutless burb come to mind most recently


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[Flyin6]

Al-right, all right, already...

Can't get away with anything around this crowd!

[stlaser]

Couple small updates, new mount came in for the alternator/ ac pump. Original had the lower ac pump positioned about .060 back too far and it was kicking belt off. It’s now a 2 piece unit instead of one piece. I believe he did that to salvage original units instead of scrapping them all as he swapped them out with customers. Stand up guy that Mike Fuchs.



I am no longer going to use the stand alone pcs controller. After much research the way to tune the 5R110 is by using hp tuners and the stock truck computer. I have hired Randy Gillam to tune the truck. He is the go to for these trans, if still using the 4R110 then the pcs is still the better way to go. Many people have pulled the pcs and had Randy help them go back to the other route although putting the wiring back to original is a major pia per Randy. I had not yet spliced the harness for stand alone. So this was an easy revert back for me. Hp tuner ordered and pcs controller nib now up for sale. I hope to recoup my initial investment as I bought it for wholesale as a destroked dealer.







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[GmikeHall]

Below picture is back (second turbo) oil drain port, starter is taking up some real estate. May try a 6.7 starter to see if clocked differently and is supposed to spin motor faster as well.




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[/quote]

What did you find to resolve this issue? I have the same issue with my setup and I do not see any way around it. My starter will not sit flush on the adapter nor will it clock to where the bolt hold line up. I have a 6.4 starter and curious if in fact some other starts may be clocked different?

[img]https://iili.io/1R4Bnt.jpg/[img]

[stlaser]

Below picture is back (second turbo) oil drain port, starter is taking up some real estate. May try a 6.7 starter to see if clocked differently and is supposed to spin motor faster as well.




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What did you find to resolve this issue? I have the same issue with my setup and I do not see any way around it. My starter will not sit flush on the adapter nor will it clock to where the bolt hold line up. I have a 6.4 starter and curious if in fact some other starts may be clocked different?

[img]https://iili.io/1R4Bnt.jpg/[img]
[/quote]

I haven’t tried 6.7 starter yet, the $3300 injection pump rebuild set me back a little as far as ordering parts to try. The brain trust (fummins tech groups on all knowing fb) say to add drains in upper area of pan. I don’t believe one drain is enough for the compounds. I’ve considered having a special drain insert machined from aluminum stock just haven’t messed with it yet. I’m pretty sure I could do it though and make it clear the starter.

[GmikeHall]

Adding a drain was considered but I would rather not. I have a brand new oil pan to install and sure didn't want to be cutting and welding on it but it may be the only option with this particular adapter plate..Did Mike give you any info on starter fitment? I do not recall anything special being mentioned...He is on vacation so maybe I will hear from him.when he gets back.

[stlaser]

Mike Fuchs, did not on the starter other than the stock 6.4 will work. Good guy, wish he would develop a machined piece for this, he definitely is capable.


The HP Tuner showed up today, so one more part ready to go.

[GmikeHall]

I have removed a lot of the block casting where the drain port goes into the block and the starter barely will fit in place but there is no room for the drain tube. I even rounded off the ear on the starter case to make more room and it is almost centered with the drain port opening in the block. I am trying to be creative to get around this but I do not see a way with how close the starter is to the block. I went and looked at a 6.7 stater and you can not find any difference looking at them besides the smaller threaded hole, No different in clocking or length from it and the 6.4 starter. I am going to have to wait on Mike to help resolve this issue as I do not see a logical way around it other than like you said putting the drain in the pan which I do not want to do.

BWT, not trying to hijack your build thread..I just saw you had the same issue as I am having and figured I would share my findings and seek your findings on the problem.

[stlaser]

No worries on hijacking it, the other knuckleheads do that on many things that don’t pertain to a fummins.

Glad you posted up about 6.7 starter, I won’t waste my time. Biggest issue I see with the current options for the pound in drains are that they are super thin. I think a guy could mod one to clear with a little metal work and a tig welder. I also have a new pan on it, so I feel your pain. I do have a removable cross member under the motor so at least that isn’t a huge undertaking to remove it with block in chassis.

[stlaser]

Is yours a 24v? I appreciate the pictures, I just ordered a stamped sheet metal drive in drain. I’m going to get it in and try to modify it to work.

[GmikeHall]

I talked with Mike and He said he saw this once before on an early Common rail which is what I have. This engine was manufactured in 2002 and was in a 2003 dodge so I would say its early for sure. Not exactly sure but he said he is going to modify the clocking of the starter and cut one out sometime this week for testing. Apparently some of the oil drain ports were farther back than others.

[Flyin6]

S, GmH-Good find/discussion

I was thinking if we should create some Sticky all about Fummins conversions??

Be careful, you (S) might be appointed lead on that...

;-)

[TexasRedNeck]

I’m pretty sure Shawn won’t be attempting this again once he gets this one done…..


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[stlaser]

I’m pretty sure Shawn won’t be attempting this again once he gets this one done…..


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Not true Charles, albeit I’ve learned quite a few things but that is the process. I do have another 24v short block on a stand in my old shop even. This conversion is if anything gaining popularity and knowledge base. In the past you had 2-3 companies with conversion packages. I knew when starting those were not the way to go.

Now you have individuals who are creating their own little companies who do a much better job than the large conversion outfits at their specialty.

I’m currently 25-30k in this truck for a full custom truck essentially. Looking at the lay of the land so to speak that’s not really expensive in todays terms. My personal largest issue is I have too many irons in the fire. Moving shops has been one of the largest, add in a growing booming business and it’s just ground my own projects to a stand still. To the point I’m considering taking a scheduled month off in July or august to work only on my stuff. We’ll see if I can swing that as it has yet to be determined.

[stlaser]

I talked with Mike and He said he saw this once before on an early Common rail which is what I have. This engine was manufactured in 2002 and was in a 2003 dodge so I would say its early for sure. Not exactly sure but he said he is going to modify the clocking of the starter and cut one out sometime this week for testing. Apparently some of the oil drain ports were farther back than others.

Well, mine is an 01 block. Please stay on him about this (squeaky wheel idea) and let me / us know. I think I’ll message him as well but in meantime still move forward with modding the $25 drive in sheet metal drain.

[KensAuto]

Seems like clocking the starter is the best option, if it's possible to redrill the motor bolt holes.
I'll order one to look at for giggles.

Edit: Looked at 6.4 and 6.7..can't be done. Dumb idea.

[JR]

Glad to hear the business is doing so well.

[GmikeHall]

I talked with Mike and He said he saw this once before on an early Common rail which is what I have. This engine was manufactured in 2002 and was in a 2003 dodge so I would say its early for sure. Not exactly sure but he said he is going to modify the clocking of the starter and cut one out sometime this week for testing. Apparently some of the oil drain ports were farther back than others.

Well, mine is an 01 block. Please stay on him about this (squeaky wheel idea) and let me / us know. I think I’ll message him as well but in meantime still move forward with modding the $25 drive in sheet metal drain.

Mike has made some changes to the starter clocking and is making me a new adapter plate. The fitment is close but it clears so that is all that matters. I also asked him to leave the start bolt holes m8 so I can use the 6.7 starter which for some reason is cheaper than the 6.4 starters. The biggest issues i have is being impatient waiting for all the parts to arrive. I have the engine pretty much sorted and ready to drop in once I have the Torque converter and new adapter plate in.

here are the pictures Mike sent showing the fitment with the changes. That is enough for me and even thought its still close it will work. I may put some rubber hose over the drain fill just in case to limit chances of rubbing a hole in the oil drain tube. I will see once I have it all together.

[JR]

At least it is just a return, not a pressure line.

[GmikeHall]

At least it is just a return, not a pressure line.

I guess a pressure line would drain your oil faster but even this return line could cause for a bad day if it had a bad hole in it. Looking forward to the new adapter plate coming in and getting this engine set in the truck.

[JR]

Yes, been there done that. leaks are leaks.

[TexasRedNeck]

So forgive my ignorance here.  Would tapping the hole and installing a 90degree AN fitting not work?


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[GmikeHall]

Sure, They actually make a fitting with an AN end that you just press into the hole if you want to use those fittings. The issue before was that there was just no room for any kind of fitting without it being notched back a good ways. It could have been done but its best to just get things where they fit correctly even if things are still close. I am using a flex hose now which should give a little more room but with the changes made to the clocking of the starter it may not have been needed.

[stlaser]

As it is I don’t think there’s enough room for it to clear Charles. At that point I still need to remove oil pan to clear shavings.

I like Mike and he stands behind his parts, has great customer service but I’m not going to pull adapter and exchange that too. I’ve had several issues and I’m pushing forward. I’m going to call tech support on the small turbo manufacturer and see what they think about a restricted oil return tube. Although thinking out loud I assume they have same size oil feed but maybe the smaller one has smaller passages internally somehow? I’m by no means a turbo expert.

[stlaser]

I spoke to Mike as well just now. Unfortunately it’s a whole new machined plate as he rotated starter up and away. He did state plenty of people have modified it to work and restricting it slightly won’t cause an issue.

[JR]

A tube pressed into the drain hole, a couple inches long bent to clear the starter with an AN fitting glued or welded to end.

[Flyin6]

So, with all these problems, why are we not just sealing that hole and creating one lower, say in the side of the oil pan?

Seems like a whole lot fewer headaches removing an oil pan for modification.

[JR]

They don't want to mod or remove the pan.

[Flyin6]

They don't want to mod or remove the pan.

OK, then...

[stlaser]

They don't want to mod or remove the pan.

OK, then...

We both have a new pan, mine has been installed in the truck even. I’d rather just mod the oil drain, it seems much simpler than removing crossmember then pan then adding a weld in bung to then install pan and cross member again.

[GmikeHall]

I spoke to Mike as well just now. Unfortunately it’s a whole new machined plate as he rotated starter up and away. He did state plenty of people have modified it to work and restricting it slightly won’t cause an issue.

He said this was only second time he has seen the interference so bad. My starter wouldn't even bolt onto the plate without first grinding down the starter housing ear to the bolt head itself and then I removed .25" of depth and even beveled the bottom portion of the drain port on the block just to get the starter to bolt up. If this was a full on custom off road truck or something highly customized I would have had no problems doing something to make it work. I did mess around with the factory drain tube until It was not usable anymore and it became apparent that even with notching it way back there was still just not enough room for a truck that may travel across country or be on the road all the time. Anyhow, I sure do appreciate Mike's effort in re-clocking the starter a little to make it clear. It only takes a couple degrees of clocking to get the starter ear to drop below or well above the port.

[JR]

Always the little things with swaps.

[KensAuto]

They don't want to mod or remove the pan.

OK, then...

I think he's afraid his long hair will get caught in the creeper wheels. Really hurts. He told me.

[stlaser]

I spoke to Mike as well just now. Unfortunately it’s a whole new machined plate as he rotated starter up and away. He did state plenty of people have modified it to work and restricting it slightly won’t cause an issue.

He said this was only second time he has seen the interference so bad. My starter wouldn't even bolt onto the plate without first grinding down the starter housing ear to the bolt head itself and then I removed .25" of depth and even beveled the bottom portion of the drain port on the block just to get the starter to bolt up. If this was a full on custom off road truck or something highly customized I would have had no problems doing something to make it work. I did mess around with the factory drain tube until It was not usable anymore and it became apparent that even with notching it way back there was still just not enough room for a truck that may travel across country or be on the road all the time. Anyhow, I sure do appreciate Mike's effort in re-clocking the starter a little to make it clear. It only takes a couple degrees of clocking to get the starter ear to drop below or well above the port.

I agree, yours looked a lot worse than mine.

[GmikeHall]

I got the modified adapter in and man there is plenty or room now. I say plenty, it is still tight but plenty of room for clearance. I have my engine set in the truck now too and just need to get the right length transmission bolts and install all those hard to get to torque converter nuts and that portion will be finished.

[stlaser]

Spoke with diesel shop this morning, my truck will be in the shop by this evening. They did hire another mechanic who starts in two weeks as well.

I’ll be updating on what exactly the shop ia doing and not doing here in next couple days. Once they get injection pump in and motor fired I’ll be going down to discuss how to get this finished.


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[stlaser]

After much deliberation I decided to find a spare tire for the truck. I actually found two nitto 37x12.5R20 used with 1/4 or more tread and no plugs for $50 each. Wheels on the other hand are expensive. So what I’ll probably end up doing is making one from a dodge spare 20” steel wheel. I’ll remove center and recenter to 8 on 170, I may even widen it to 10” so everything matches including back spacing. I’ve built beadlocks from these rim shells before.


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[Flyin6]

You are so resourceful!

And that is a good idea

[stlaser]

You are so resourceful!

And that is a good idea

Thanks

Frugal or cheap I guess. I can’t swallow $400+ per rim to be a spare that will never be used. Walmart sells the dodge 20” steel spares for $170 new but they’re 8” wide. I already have a source trying to find me at least one used. I’ve put 12.50’s on an 8” wide wheel before so not sure I’ll widen but maybe. That way if I need to run one long term I can.

[stlaser]

Custom single piece 1480 rear aluminum drive shaft ($$$) good for 4000ft# of torque with pregreased and vacuum sealed slip shaft (lubes itself as it moves in and out) plus rebuilt 1350 cv front shaft


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[Flyin6]

^^^^^^^^^^^Works of art!^^^^^^^^^^^^

[stlaser]

Yes sir, designed by a female engineer at Bill's Englewood Driveshaft in Englewood, CO. Can’t say enough about them. Small shop with great customer service.

Moshimoto intercooler in route to handle the added boost. I ordered 3” od steel pipe last week and need to get some of the turbo piping mocked up when that shows up.

[Flyin6]

This is really a nice project.
So whatcha think...Possibly up there with a SEMA quality build?
GLO at SEMA...dunno cats live with dogs these days, men kiss other men on TV, another man with Alzheimer's is president... I'd say if ever there was a time...

[stlaser]

Thank you but not pretty enough for sema. Should definitely be functional though.

[Flyin6]

Thank you but not pretty enough for sema. Should definitely be functional though.

So to that I say a leader sets his own style. Don't think about it in terms of pretty SEMA builds. THink about it in terms of what the everyman would like. Don't shy away from showing something that shows wear. SEMA is an idea...change their thinking

Just a thought

[JR]

Thought SEMA was about showing off quality work and ideas, not just a hot rod show. Lots of trucks there!