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Offline stlaser

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Garage Lofts
« on: October 23, 2015, 03:48:48 PM »
Ok, so down sizing has me running out of room real quick. I started by buying a couple of overhead ceiling mount racks from Lowe's. Which after I was done modifying them to fit cost me twice as much as initially budgeted. You see this is twice now that the black diamonds on a tape measure have bit me in the rear. Black diamonds you ask? Yeah take a standard tape measure and look at the 19.2" mark. There should be a small black diamond. These are known as metric marks or 5 equal spaces for every 8'. Yeah forget 16" on center or 24" on center some brilliant knucklehead came up with the diamond idea. My first run in with them was years ago building our first ranch home. We used engineered floor joists to span a 30' basement. Laid them out and nailed them at 24" center to end up with a couple extra and have to cut them loose and then read instructions telling us that it was that blasted diamond spacing.  >:(

So on to this weeks experience. Garage ceiling or floor joists of master bedroom are the black diamond spacing. Buy overhead garage kit from Lowe's. Sorry, not engineered for black diamond spacing....... So do I take them back for a refund? Nope that's too easy, I just go buy mo' parts and pieces.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 03:58:00 PM »


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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 04:02:27 PM »
So due to the fact that the rack ceiling mounts wouldn't come anywhere near touching a truss with the black diamond layout I had to add the garage door opener style angle with the holes to the ceiling and then attach rack to this. It works and holds up to 250# above the garage door which was dead space before. All in all a good storage idea, new lesson learned check spacing of joists before purchasing.

Lumber just arrived for next overhead loft, stay tuned as I will be completing this addition next week..........
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 06:44:52 PM »
Good luck.  I have had similar but with my basement walls.  Framers did 2 foot centers and no drywall backing.   I can't ever catch two studs for a shelf and if you lean into a corner you pop the drywall. :(


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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2015, 07:10:37 PM »
Ouch, haven't had that problem yet thank goodness.....

Good luck.  I have had similar but with my basement walls.  Framers did 2 foot centers and no drywall backing.   I can't ever catch two studs for a shelf and if you lean into a corner you pop the drywall. :(


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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 07:16:33 PM »
Ok, gunna post these before photos now. Otherwise I will start and forget to take any. Basically what you see is the back corner of my front two bays of my garage. I basically have a 3.5 car garage, 2 up front and 1.5 added in the rear of those. I am going to build a little loft in this corner above the (soon to be compressor, waiting on parts from eaton compressor now) and over rated drill press / mill. Once I have this completed I will be building another loft at the back of the 3rd car garage spanning the width which is around 13'-14' and it will be 4' deep.





Yes, I will do a build thread on the compressor as well. Soon as parts show up via the big 18 wheeler.......
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 08:01:35 PM by stlaser »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2015, 08:43:13 PM »
My garage is 20ft wide and I'm deed restricted to  2 car garage so I too had to make use of the space above the garage doors.

I bought 4 pieces of 2 inch angle iron 20 ft long.  Put a 2x4 on each wall to hold the ends and then used uni strut to make braces that run from the ceiling to the angle iron in 2 places along each angle.

then I ripped plywood to sit between the angles and used decking plywood clips between the pieces to prevent sagging.

Voila!  Ceiling hung shelves that run the full width of the garage...

I'll see if I can get a picture tomorrow when I get home
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Offline JR

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2015, 09:31:03 PM »
I have a couple in my single garage. Just cut OSB in have and a couple 2x4 with strapping to the joists.

Wondered what those diamonds were,,,,,,,,,,,metric, go figure  ::)
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2015, 10:56:32 PM »
One of my main problems is everything I have that I want to store weighs quite a bit. Those two racks I used over the garage door area max out at 250# each which is fine for tackle boxes and a couple tubs with not much in them. They are also hanging from the ceiling so I get it. The reason for these lofts is to hold a lot more weight (things like the CRF50 bike etc) which is why I will incorporate posts along walls to support the additional weight so that I don't end up with load shear and a big mess on the floor.
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Offline JR

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2015, 12:11:07 AM »
The back of those are screwed into studs, no nails for this.

I would trust several hundred on each one easy.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2015, 12:16:33 AM »
The back of those are screwed into studs, no nails for this.

I would trust several hundred on each one easy.


When you say "screwed" you mean lag bolts?
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Offline JR

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2015, 12:31:30 AM »
The back of those are screwed into studs, no nails for this.

I would trust several hundred on each one easy.


When you say "screwed" you mean lag bolts?

Heavy screws, 3x10. SDS or lags would work too. Never had one come loose.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2015, 10:31:58 AM »
The back of those are screwed into studs, no nails for this.

I would trust several hundred on each one easy.


When you say "screwed" you mean lag bolts?

Copy, when I think screws I naturally think drywall or deck screws......

Heavy screws, 3x10. SDS or lags would work too. Never had one come loose.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2015, 11:38:31 AM »
Shawn,  you mean like this? I slapped it together a few years ago. It was supposed to go all the way across. ...above the garage doors  (3 car). The center 2x4s go up to outer roof joists, and I was going to do that for all of the hangers eventually (with actual bolts) but got lazy. Those are 1-1/2" screws......they've held my weight a few times.  Lol


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Offline JR

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2015, 12:59:15 PM »
Nice use of wasted room there Ken. I see those alot but also hate the center mounted door openers.

I am sold on these garage openers by liftmaster. Everything is out of the way, dead bolt locks the door and your can get a battery backup.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 01:01:50 PM by JR »
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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2015, 01:35:22 PM »
I like that idea. I might take on the project of raising the door openings someday, and I'll switch to something better. Typical 'cutting corners' construction. I have a 10' tall garage with the standard 7' openings.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2015, 02:12:17 PM »
Nice Ken you crazy ol koot! I try to stay out of the ER, wife works there and definitely don't need to deal with her anymore than I already have to...... ::)

Shawn,  you mean like this? I slapped it together a few years ago. It was supposed to go all the way across. ...above the garage doors  (3 car). The center 2x4s go up to outer roof joists, and I was going to do that for all of the hangers eventually (with actual bolts) but got lazy. Those are 1-1/2" screws......they've held my weight a few times.  Lol


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Offline Nate

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2015, 02:57:45 PM »
you mean you don't want to get yelled at while laying in the ER bed while your wife is inflicting torture on you in some way shape fashion or form for making her worry about you.................? ;D
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2015, 03:15:21 PM »
you mean you don't want to get yelled at while laying in the ER bed while your wife is inflicting torture on you in some way shape fashion or form for making her worry about you.................? ;D

Funny story, wife was working as a unit secretary part time in a small local er prior to her entering nursing school. I was converting kitchen pantry into first floor laundry closet. Using a hole saw that had straight screw driver style set screw instead of Allen style to hold drill bit in hole saw. Grabbed broken nasty tipped screw driver. Ended up slicing web in right hand between thumb & pointer finger. Bleeding pretty good go back up stairs & wash it out & ask wife for towel to wrap it up. So she starts flipping out gunna have mom come over so she can drive me to er. I wasn't having it, wife claimed if she didn't drive me I wouldn't go. So I drove myself towards er, right before I get to er there is a 4 way stop. Took a min & looked at hand, bleeding had tapered off so I went right by er to Walgreens & bought $20 worth of butterfly's & neosporin. Wrapped it up & drove home. Get home wife looks at me & says you never went to ER did ya? I said yeah but they took one look at me called me a sissy then told me to go to Walgreens buy some bandages & neosporin. Wife's response "really?"
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2015, 04:32:51 PM »
Here's the above garage storage picture I referenced

Note the unistrut braces to the ceiling with long wood lag screws.  I could lift a motor out from those shelves.....maybe a v-6 anyway.
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« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 04:35:04 PM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline rpar86

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Garage Lofts
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2015, 12:53:57 AM »
Nice use of wasted room there Ken. I see those alot but also hate the center mounted door openers.

I am sold on these garage openers by liftmaster. Everything is out of the way, dead bolt locks the door and your can get a battery backup.

I had one of those at the old house... Really wish I'd taken it down and put a $100 Home Depot special up before I moved. I miss it :(


I like that idea. I might take on the project of raising the door openings someday, and I'll switch to something better. Typical 'cutting corners' construction. I have a 10' tall garage with the standard 7' openings.

Same problem here Ken. Some neighbors have 8' doors, so I've contemplated doing that project too.

I put shelves on the wall above the garage door spring and store lumber and my redneck truck rack up there.


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« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 01:00:17 AM by rpar86 »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2015, 09:15:09 PM »
So I started this evening on the loft since I had an extra set of hands from my twelve year old. From here out I can finish this myself.



prior to this I added more storage on the south wall earlier in the afternoon.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2015, 09:17:35 PM »
I use those metal wall brackets a lot. They're pretty stout and long lasting
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Offline JR

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2015, 12:16:13 AM »
For as flimsy as they look, they do hold alot.

Those jars remind me I need a BIG BIN drawer setup. Half my mess is little stuff.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2015, 04:17:39 PM »
For as flimsy as they look, they do hold alot.

Those jars remind me I need a BIG BIN drawer setup. Half my mess is little stuff.
I use those metal wall brackets a lot. They're pretty stout and long lasting

Shelf brackets are great for less than $2ea, the jars are free so why the hey not?
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2015, 04:22:49 PM »
Ok, so ran into another conundrum with this darn ceiling. If you look above the horizontal 2x6 in top pic there is a beam running the width of the garage. I thought it was a wood beam with drywall laid over it. After drilling to lag a vertical piece of uni strut to it to hold up this outside corner I realized it's steel..... So now I have to figure out how I'm going to mount a hanger to it without destroying the drywall. The drywall is a fire protection for the beam which holds up our master bedroom so I really don't want that beam to weaken during a fire when I'm potentially sleeping......

edit: best I can tell its a wide flange I-beam, I know they make mounts to grab bottom of the flange either side that I could hook uni strut to or even cable down to the 2x6 joists. Open to all idears.







« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 04:25:41 PM by stlaser »
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2015, 05:24:04 PM »
you think it's I-beam because of a huge gap behind the (side) drywall?

Sounds like a tough one without pulling the drywall and blocking it up.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2015, 06:39:11 PM »
magnet.  that'll confirm.

Drywall don't attach well to iron so there is bound to be something else providing an attachment point.

Otherwise a very large self tapping screw with a pilot hole
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2015, 07:46:31 PM »
I was wondering whether I-beam or tubing. Tubing=easy
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Online Atkinsmatt

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2015, 08:03:57 PM »
Open up the dry wall, make your connection with clamps or you could use self tappers, and then close the drywall back.  Use the dry wall mud to seal up around your uni-strut.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2015, 10:24:34 PM »
It's steel I-beam, you see in a former life I used to play with that stuff ALOT...... Anyhow drill punched thru drywall went almost to center and hit steel. These beams are either wood or I-beam, never saw tube used for this application ever. Was looking at mc master carr and they have some beam mounts for uni strut I'm gunna order up and fix this then mud it back in like you all said.....
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2015, 04:35:12 PM »
Some times the bottom of the beam has a board attached to is with bolts. 

Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2015, 05:34:53 PM »
So I stopped by HD today and picked up a pair of these for $6 each, should do the trick once I chisel some wood and fireproofing out of the way.......

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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2015, 12:27:15 PM »
Progress!









Started this morning by drilling couple pilots holes near bottom of beam to locate actual steel. Then opened it up to find it appears they attached a 2x4 to bottom of steel beam. Didn't measure it but I believe the beam has a 3/8" thick bottom flange so it's fairly HD. Once I opened it up I took a drill with a 1/2" bit and bored a hole bottom either corner and then drilled in bottom center to remove wood that was in the way for the beam clamp. I then used a box end wrench to tighten clamp to beam after hammering it into place. A little bit of drywall that I cut out was reinserted and some mud. Now I have an adequate attachment point for the near corner loft support. Then landscaper called and trees are in route so I'm side tracked once again, we'll let that mud dry for a bit I guess.

Edit, worth noting I placed a clamp on each side of this beam for the loft mount. I will tie them together for a single attachment point below the beam centered up. The reality is I doubt the steel beam is going anywhere but having it twist and fall over is always a concern when working with an I-beam so you want your load directly on top of it or below it.   

« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 12:37:48 PM by stlaser »
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Offline moto123

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2015, 01:11:24 PM »

Edit, worth noting I placed a clamp on each side of this beam for the loft mount. I will tie them together for a single attachment point below the beam centered up. The reality is I doubt the steel beam is going anywhere but having it twist and fall over is always a concern when working with an I-beam so you want your load directly on top of it or below it.

Nice Job!  When I first saw the picture of the style of clamp you used I thought "oh no, he is going to twist that beam".  But I was relieved to see you already thought of that.  Using those on only one side of the beam may work fine at first, but if enough weight is added it could be a disaster.  I had never thought of using one on each side, but that should work great.

Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2015, 01:44:10 PM »
Nice Job!  When I first saw the picture of the style of clamp you used I thought "oh no, he is going to twist that beam".  But I was relieved to see you already thought of that.  Using those on only one side of the beam may work fine at first, but if enough weight is added it could be a disaster.  I had never thought of using one on each side, but that should work great.

Yeah, with that 2x4 strapped to the bottom and it covered in drywall these seemed as easy as anything else I found. Plus I walked in to Home Depot and $12 later walked out with a set of them.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2015, 10:49:20 PM »


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Offline rasimmo

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2015, 01:56:26 AM »
Those little clamps are supposed to be flipped the other way, set screw on bottom of the beam. The way you have them the weight is supported on the beam by the bolt instead so the body of the clamp. I'm not trying to be the safety police. I would hate to take a chance of it falling because of that though.

Offline JR

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2015, 02:16:30 AM »
I would have just drilled through the beam. Coming off on both sides is better, but the weight needs to be off the set screws.

To bad you don't have an inspection camera. You can get a small USB one on ebay for under $20.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2015, 02:16:13 PM »
I would have just drilled through the beam. Coming off on both sides is better, but the weight needs to be off the set screws.

Contemplated drilling, however those beam clamps are rated at like 700#+ each so those sets screws ain't going anywhere. Never had the need for an inspection camera before but yeah it would have been handy I will admit.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 02:37:50 PM by stlaser »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2015, 02:22:25 PM »
Cribbing, or reinforcement etc. All the 2x6's have support directly below them going to the floor so shear is not an issue & they are all secured from rotating off of their individual ledges.





Laid first piece of 7/16" OSB for the floor & screwed it in place.

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Offline rasimmo

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2015, 02:30:17 PM »
I would have just drilled through the beam. Coming off on both sides is better, but the weight needs to be off the set screws.

Contemplated drilling, however those beam clamps are rated at like 700#+ each so those sets screws ain't going anywhere. Never had the need for an inspection camera but yeah it would have been handy I will admit.

That rating is with them installed the other way. The squared off part of the clamp opening is supposed to on top of the beam. The screw is not supposed to support the weight, just hold it in place. We use several thousand of those things all over this platform at work. They work great and are easy to hang stuff just about anywhere. It may never fail the way you have it, but I would not leave it that way. You should be able to cut out the sheetrock under the beam where the clamps are. Then cut a notch in that 2x to make room for the part of the clamp with the screw in it under the bottom of the beam. Finish it back off with some mud and slap the unistrut back up there.

Offline stlaser

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2015, 02:34:54 PM »
Copy, just saw your post. Every picture I saw of them they were rotated this way never second guessed it. Makes sense though, just have to flip and notch for the set screw then and as you stated re mud them in place. 



That rating is with them installed the other way. The squared off part of the clamp opening is supposed to on top of the beam. The screw is not supposed to support the weight, just hold it in place. We use several thousand of those things all over this platform at work. They work great and are easy to hang stuff just about anywhere. It may never fail the way you have it, but I would not leave it that way. You should be able to cut out the sheetrock under the beam where the clamps are. Then cut a notch in that 2x to make room for the part of the clamp with the screw in it under the bottom of the beam. Finish it back off with some mud and slap the unistrut back up there.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 02:45:32 PM by stlaser »
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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2015, 05:01:20 PM »
OK, so clamps flipped. Sheeting for flooring laid, loft is officially ready to be loaded up. Sorry for the bad picture I have two big picture windows mounted up high either side of this loft and it screwed with camera. One thing to note with this design, when I was fixing my screw up I noticed there was essentially no tension or load on the chain with the loft empty. My theory is this, the way this is designed only the outer corner or half of the loft will ever be hanging from that chain. If I keep more weight in the back corner or half then it minimizes the load on the front half and chain. The short back wall the joists are supported down to the floor and then on the front corner against wall that joist is supported down to the floor as well. So what happens is from corner to corner on the supported joists the frame acts as a fulcrum. If you have more weight in the back corner it will lessen the load on the chain and beam above. So with that said I will load it heavy in the back corner. On to the next & last loft, no screwy beam clamps needed so I should be gtg.


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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2015, 11:37:07 AM »
2nd loft space, side to side this area is approximately 13' wide. This loft will be 4' deep and not incorporate the beam above, thank heavens. I ordered 2 (roughly 2x12) LVL's to screw together and span this 13' space. All the material should arrive Monday from the lumber yard. So this should be straight forward and be able to park the JK up there when complete....

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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2015, 11:53:45 AM »
2nd loft space, side to side this area is approximately 13' wide. This loft will be 4' deep and not incorporate the beam above, thank heavens. I ordered 2 (roughly 2x12) LVL's to screw together and span this 13' space. All the material should arrive Monday from the lumber yard. So this should be straight forward and be able to park the JK up there when complete....



JK beneath...so, some legs out from the wall to the floor?
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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2015, 03:06:40 PM »

JK beneath...so, some legs out from the wall to the floor?

No legs, supported at both ends and along back wall. JK on top, we're building this heavy duty just gotta build the ramps to get it up there! 8)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 03:14:31 PM by stlaser »
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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2015, 06:54:17 PM »
Psycho!
Gotta see this!
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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2015, 02:46:44 PM »
Ok, so beam supports were screwed in place and then I lifted the two separate LVL's (laminated veneer lumber) into place on top of the supports. I then screwed the lvl's together with #9 x 3 1/8" long structural screws. The beam measures 3 1/2" x 11 7/8", I did have to clamp the middle to bring them together however there was no camber in them and they lined up top and bottom exactly across the span. So for $4+ a ft you get easy to work with lumber and these structural beams are a lot stronger than a traditional 2 x 12.



Here's a shot of an end view once I trimmed it to square up the ends. I ordered 13'ers from the lumber yard but they came in at over 14' and looked like they were cut with a chain saw. It is my understanding they cut these from 60'ers.



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Re: Garage Lofts
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2015, 07:14:39 PM »
Those are nice.  Did you have the lumber yard do the engineering for the load capacity?
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