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First poll on RMTS! What 14-bolt axle should I build?

OPTION A: GLO diff cover, Keep 3.73 gear ratio, use stock gov-lock differential, no TMR Shave kit.
OPTION B: GLO diff cover, Change to 3.55 gear-ratio, new Grizzly locker, no TMR Shave kit.
OPTION C: GLO diff cover, Full-tilt: 3.55 gear-ratio, new Grizzly locker, TMR Shave kit.
OPTION D: GLO diff cover, keep 3.73 gear ratio, new Grizzly locker, TMR Shave kit (Ken's option)

Author Topic: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion  (Read 62942 times)

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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2015, 07:09:33 AM »

What is your plan for the clutch pedals/firewall modifications?
 

Good question.  There is a shop in Bardstown, KY that specializes in Dodge cummins parts and trucks. They have donor vehicles on their lot and said that they have what I need to convert from auto to manual trans.  I'm sure I will be making several trips down to Bardstown as the project moves along.

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2015, 07:15:01 AM »
It had a Getrag 5speed

Duane, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you a main proponent to sticking with the automatic in D2 ? Why the 5 spd? DOn't get me wrong I think a 5 spd will be awesome in the truck, I'm just wondering and I can't remember if you were pro or against the manual in respect to D2, so I was wondering..

I may have been an automatic transmission advocate but probably because it was already in place.  If the chassis I bought had an auto, that's what I would be using.  Each setup has its own advantages / disadvantages in my opinion. 

OldKooT

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2015, 07:29:21 AM »

What is your plan for the clutch pedals/firewall modifications?
 

Good question.  There is a shop in Bardstown, KY that specializes in Dodge cummins parts and trucks. They have donor vehicles on their lot and said that they have what I need to convert from auto to manual trans.  I'm sure I will be making several trips down to Bardstown as the project moves along.

There are many schools of thought on the best/simplest/cleanest way to do the firewall mods. Depending on your time frame, I will make sure to well document how I do ours. I Should be at the stage in a month or so hopefully.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2015, 08:21:30 AM »
These builds and their write-ups are just a treasure of information. Some of it brilliant, and novel and some of it old stuff that just needs to see the light of day once again for this generation.

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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2015, 08:49:52 AM »
Here is one of the D70 axles that came with the chassis.   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:50:42 AM by Dustoff35 »

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2015, 08:56:36 AM »
Unloading the trailer.

OldKooT

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2015, 10:07:44 AM »
If those 70's aren't already all wore out... sell them quick LoL

If one happens to be a Power lock equipped model, sell me that one LoL




Offline BobbyB

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2015, 11:50:39 AM »
The chassis came with two "spare" D70 axles… I wonder why?

Field expedient exercise equipment?
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline EL TATE

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2015, 03:04:38 PM »
If those 70's aren't already all wore out... sell them quick LoL

If one happens to be a Power lock equipped model, sell me that one LoL
If it needs a rebuild, we just released forged chrome moly internals for the P/L.
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2015, 07:40:30 AM »
After rolling the chassis off of the trailer, I spent the next 3-4 hours wrestling with it to get it up the driveway and parked next to the garage.  The combination of the weight of the chassis, the lighter weight of the tractor, the need to deploy a vicegrips on the steering box to move the front wheels and the fact that the rear axle has a spool all combined to almost ruin me, the tractor, the chassis and the driveway.  It was a constant dance, chock wheels, reposition tractor, reattach chains, move steering box shaft, tow 3 feet, chock wheels, repeat…
 
My wife must have been watching all of this.  After the tractor slid down the driveway and almost flipped over for the second time, she came out, stern look on her face and said, "Where is ____?  Wasn't he supposed to help you with this today?"

"Well, he couldn't make it and I have to get this thing moved today or that trailer is going to sink into the front yard over the next 4 days due to the forecasted rain."

She shook her head, climbed onto the tractor and we finished pulling  the chassis up the hill and got it parked next to the shop without incident.  She made sure that it was positioned so that she would not have to see it when she drove up to the house or looked out any of the windows.

   
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 07:43:02 AM by Dustoff35 »

Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2015, 07:45:11 AM »
After rolling the chassis off of the trailer, I spent the next 3-4 hours wrestling with it to get it up the driveway and parked next to the garage.  The combination of the weight of the chassis, the lighter weight of the tractor, the need to deploy a vicegrips on the steering box to move the front wheels and the fact that the rear axle has a spool all combined to almost ruin me, the tractor, the chassis and the driveway.  It was a constant dance, chock wheels, reposition tractor, reattach chains, move steering box shaft, tow 3 feet, chock wheels, repeat…
 
My wife must have been watching all of this.  After the tractor slid down the driveway and almost flipped over for the second time, she came out, stern look on her face and said, "Where is ____?  Wasn't he supposed to help you with this today?"

"Well, he couldn't make it and I have to get this thing moved today or that trailer is going to sink into the front yard over the next 4 days due to the forecasted rain."

She shook her head, climbed onto the tractor and we finished pulling  the chassis up the hill and got it parked next to the shop without incident.  She made sure that it was positioned so that she would not have to see it when she drove up to the house or looked out any of the windows.

   

And yes, I should have been there

Not being there was a mistake...
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2015, 07:54:05 AM »
^^That's OK.  It all worked out.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2015, 08:30:35 AM »
Self confession: I was a lousy friend on that day. Duane asked me previously to help him download the chassis off my trailer which he had borrowed. I said that I would

Then on the faithful day, I believe I had plans to get some work done on SquareD I think so I told him I was busy.

Well then all that business happened over at his place and the rest is history.

In my sorry defense I thought he was only going to lift and roll it off onto the ground and nothing more. I didn't realize he was downloading in the bottom of the driveway then going diagonally across the property. Had I known, I would have encouraged him to get the trailer a lot closer to the garage, but that doesn't matter because I was not there.

In retrospect, I was selfish and placed what I wanted over a friend's needs and that is downright sorry. I should have done the right thing, but I didn't, so all I can do from that is to learn, and from that lesson, hopefully I did!
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2015, 08:05:58 AM »
 :o

^^Okay… Enough with the self-flagellation…^^

With the chassis tucked away out of the wife's line-of-sight. I began taking a closer look at those D70 axles.  One was out of a Gen2 and was a few inches wider, had larger drum brakes and a factory LSD of some type. The other was a rather complete Gen1.  The axle the chassis was sitting on had no brakes and had either a spool or welded spider gears.

I decided to sell the Gen2 and rebuild the Gen1 axle.  I called a few guys I knew were always on the lookout for dodge truck parts.  The Gen2 axle went right away.  Part cash, part trade for a Gen1 diesel radiator support, which I have been told is different than the radiator support on my gas motor '75.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 08:08:54 AM by Dustoff35 »

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2015, 08:07:35 AM »
The Gen1 radiator support...

OldKooT

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2015, 08:57:06 AM »
Looks like a good score. Are you going to run inter cooled then?  OEM or?


Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2015, 09:00:49 AM »
Looks like a good score. Are you going to run inter cooled then?  OEM or?


You're thinking what I am thinking
Stock...or that core support isn't going to look like that for long!
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OldKooT

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2015, 10:30:14 AM »
Well a stock IC will handle a moderately warmed Cummins. Up to about 250hp or so unless towing real heavy, a stock IC works fairly well. My daily driver runs around 300hp on a stock IC with no real issues and it tows 6-8000lbs quite often. But I do have a 60mm wheel on it and a 14Cm exhaust housing which helps.

On Kay's Ramcharger I used a power stroke IC. It fits fairly well, dropped EGT's considerably, but it doesn't leave much room for AC condenser. I think with a aftermarket aluminum radiator and some fab work, I could wedge a condenser in there. But very little core support mods are required for the PS IC. 

 


Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2015, 10:46:43 AM »
I'm not sure if I am going to go with the stock 1st Gen intercooler or the PS I/C route.

I have two 1st Gen intercoolers and one 1st Gen radiator core support.  I have been told if I am going to modify for a larger I/C to use the gas motor rad support.   Apparently, the 1st Gen core supports command $$$.

Air conditioning is a mandatory item, so I need to ensure a locale for the condenser. 

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2015, 10:51:13 AM »
Air conditioning is a mandatory item, so I need to ensure a locale for the condenser.

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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2015, 06:57:32 PM »
Back to rear Axles and other stuff.

As I began disassembling the other D70 axle  I quickly learned that it was in worse shape than I thought.  It must have spent some time lying on the ground, as the drums and internals were rust to the point of disintegration.  I pulled the cover and found that the ring gear had broken teeth, metal chips were distributed throughout the axle internals.  Time to bail on the two remaining D70s.   

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2015, 07:17:13 PM »
As I was working on the axles, I decided to build a small electrolytic rust removal system.  The benefit to electrolytic rust removal is that parts (made from ferrous materials: iron, steel) can be de-rusted and cleaned without damaging threads, stampings and the like.  Only the rust is removed, none of the base material.

I built a tank by cutting one of those blue plastic drums in half.  I then built an anode cage from some copper wire and carbon gouging rods I bought from Grainger.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 07:45:54 PM by Dustoff35 »

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2015, 07:27:26 PM »
I filled the vessel, added some sodium carbonate or washing soda.  It can be found in the laundry detergent aisle at your local grocery store.  Arm & Hammer Washing Soda is what I used.  Suspend the part you are cleaning in the solution and attach your battery charger; positive to the anode, negative to the part.  I used a low setting on the charger.   

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2015, 07:29:03 PM »
Here is how it turned out. 

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2015, 07:31:39 PM »
In hindsight, this was a pretty difficult part for my first attempt.  You need "line of sight" from the anode array to the surface of the part.  This backing plate has a lot of recesses and required frequent turning during the process.

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2015, 07:33:58 PM »
This is an old Wilton vise I picked up at an auction a couple of years ago.  It was rusty and coated with some tar-like substance which looked like someone tried to burn off with a torch:
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 07:37:03 PM by Dustoff35 »

Offline KensAuto

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2015, 08:57:10 PM »
That is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while! I've heard of it, just not witnessed it.
It even took the tar like stuff off?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2015, 10:05:54 PM »
Ingenious!
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #78 on: February 20, 2015, 01:51:24 AM »
How long does it take to clean stuff? I know it'll vary but ballpark figure.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2015, 10:42:51 AM »
That is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while! I've heard of it, just not witnessed it.
It even took the tar like stuff off?

The tar and paint did come off.  Anything stuck to the rust flakes right off, if its adhered to good clean metal, a little scraping may be required.  I cleaned some parts for Dan that were painted onto clean metal and the paint bubbled and came off in sheets. 

Google electrolytic rust removal, lots to read.  In one example, I read where they excavated a pit, lined it with plastic sheeting and de-rusted an entire frame.   
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 10:49:15 AM by Dustoff35 »

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2015, 10:48:25 AM »
How long does it take to clean stuff? I know it'll vary but ballpark figure.

A lot of factors to consider, how thick is the rust, how clean is your solution…

I'd say the vise took 4 hours with one repositioning of the part.  The brake backing plate around 6 hours with repositioning 3 or 4 times.

Cleaning grease and oils from the parts prior to de-rusting seems to help quite a bit.  It keeps the solution more alkaline.

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2015, 12:12:02 PM »
The temperature got down to -12 here last night.  Photos from a warmer time:

Offline Nate

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2015, 12:46:13 PM »
that is really a nice clean looking body!  you got really lucky on that one duane.  hows the wife liking the jeep with the lift on it?
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2015, 05:29:28 PM »
She likes the Jeep, seems to be used to the ride now.

After the disappointment with the D70 axles, I decided to look for a 14 bolt.  There were quite a few available but they all had drum brakes.  I checked a few local yards and they all wanted $1,000+ for an axle with disks.  I debated picking up one of the drum brake versions and purchasing one of the bolt-on disk-brake kits from Great Lakes Off-road.  I was just about to pull the trigger on that setup when I came across a Craigslist ad picturing a truckload of 15-20 14bolt axles, all with disks and 4.11 gearing.

So how does one come across a truckload of 14-bolt axles like that?  Apparently, the seller made a bid on several pallets of 14 bolt axles that were take-offs from brand-new 1-ton Suburbans.  The Suburbans had their 14bolt AAM axles replaced with Rockwell axles as they were being up-armored for overseas use.  The 14b's were palletized and sat in the back of a warehouse for a few years, then sat outside on a pallet rack for a few more.  They were finally sold to the guy that listed them on Craigslist.

Don and I dragged my utility trailer over to the guy's shop and started going through the axles.  As we scrutinized the selection and pulled differential covers, we found that the axles were not all 4.11s, there were a few with 3.73 gearing in there as well.  Also, the differentials did not appear to be of the "open" variety but we couldn't identify exactly what type of LSD or Locker was in there.  I picked the best-looking axle with 3.73 gears and brought it home.

 

       
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 05:36:26 PM by Dustoff35 »

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2015, 06:01:35 PM »
Very nice find!
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2015, 08:27:47 PM »
Cool story. Excellent axle.
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Offline JR

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2015, 09:00:52 PM »
Wow, that works great!! I will need it with some of the things I have around here and I have some 30 gal containers that will work great!!

Nice find on the rear (and why I dumped my 70), guess you won't have to rebuild it!! Will the width be an issue or are H1 wheels going on?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 07:35:41 PM by JR »
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2015, 03:26:05 PM »
There isn't going to be any issue on axle width, less than 2 inches difference between the 14b and a Gen1 D70 axle.  Spring pad location will pose a challenge though.  They don't match up, not even close.  The shock absorber mounts hang down way too low also.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 03:28:22 PM by Dustoff35 »

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2015, 11:54:59 AM »
The pads are what I ran into with my 14sf for the 1500. The pads need to be placed right in the middle of the 2 pads shown and it is about 4 inches wider but that means my tires aren't sucked into the wheel wells.

That is great this will work with just a pads change, dual cylinder discs and slide off rotors.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2015, 05:05:09 PM »
Incredibly insightful use of tech on the rust removal. I'll be all over that one in the future. That housing appears to be in very good condition and ready for action. the G80 governor locks should have been the only option for those housings. if they are Mil-spec they could be Detroit lockers. Any photos of the innards yet?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2015, 05:37:24 PM »
Incredibly insightful use of tech on the rust removal. I'll be all over that one in the future. That housing appears to be in very good condition and ready for action. the G80 governor locks should have been the only option for those housings. if they are Mil-spec they could be Detroit lockers. Any photos of the innards yet?
BT (Bro Tate)

Not a G80. I was looking inside a couple of them while the guy pulled the covers off, No little spinny thing. I thought it was a Detroit locker, so you may have just confirmed my suspicions.

Think about it...These Burbs are not sold to the public in the configuration they came to us. They all have the 8100 big block engine. Now am I mistaken, but did the was the 8100 ever offered in the 3/4 ton burb for public sale?

These axles came from a fleet of specially ordered vehicles that were built in a hurry when we were spinning up Iraq. Most (almost all) of them got hot rodded, massive bumpers and armored with 2" thick glass and steel plate. They were built for GM specifically for this contract. Uncle sugar knew they were headed for a shootin' war so they pulled out all the fuses.

If a DT Locker was offered to the guberment, then Du-ane owns one!
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2015, 07:42:28 PM »
That's Koool...
..the burbs did have an 8.1 option Don.
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2015, 06:26:19 AM »
...dual cylinder discs and slide off rotors.

And parking brake!

Offline stlaser

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2015, 10:24:19 AM »
My thought was to use those tanks versus the forklift tanks for my EB that runs on pane. But we'll see, it was a good deal I so I jumped & they are currently in storage at this time.

Ultimately, I decided I didn't want to use propane or the gas engine for that matter.  The propane system went to a good home, Sean, aka stlaser.  Not sure what his plans are for it.  Sean?
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline EL TATE

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2015, 05:29:44 PM »
Incredibly insightful use of tech on the rust removal. I'll be all over that one in the future. That housing appears to be in very good condition and ready for action. the G80 governor locks should have been the only option for those housings. if they are Mil-spec they could be Detroit lockers. Any photos of the innards yet?
BT (Bro Tate)

Not a G80. I was looking inside a couple of them while the guy pulled the covers off, No little spinny thing. I thought it was a Detroit locker, so you may have just confirmed my suspicions.

Think about it...These Burbs are not sold to the public in the configuration they came to us. They all have the 8100 big block engine. Now am I mistaken, but did the was the 8100 ever offered in the 3/4 ton burb for public sale?

These axles came from a fleet of specially ordered vehicles that were built in a hurry when we were spinning up Iraq. Most (almost all) of them got hot rodded, massive bumpers and armored with 2" thick glass and steel plate. They were built for GM specifically for this contract. Uncle sugar knew they were headed for a shootin' war so they pulled out all the fuses.

If a DT Locker was offered to the guberment, then Du-ane owns one!
That's how I understand it. 8.1 burbs and Yukon xl's for gov use. Mexico uses them now for their presidential motorcade, (I've geared up most of them). it's std open, gov loc, or Det. so by process of elim, I would agree on the Detroit. get over there and hold an axle hub still while duane turns the other and listen for the ratcheting sound, or get that cover off for an "in depth discovery photo shoot"
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2015, 07:16:21 AM »
Here is the inside of the axle:

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2015, 07:18:11 AM »
A few more pics:

Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2015, 07:38:45 AM »
Well, now I'm confused...

I said before from memory I thought that was a Detroit locker, but now I am not sure.

I don't understand the AAM numbers on the carrier and the det Locker looks a bit different.

Tate...Help!
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2015, 12:30:22 PM »
I'm not tate, but that looks like a standard aam14 bolt open diff.

...but I didn't realize that on the 14b, you reuse the original carrier pieces, and the Detroit just replaces the guts.
Darn Tate, where you be? lol
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 11:48:09 PM by KensAuto »
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1975 Dodge Crew Cab Power Wagon Build and Cummins 6BT Conversion
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2015, 04:49:33 PM »
I think it is a Gov-Lock. It is not an open differential, I verified that already.

 

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