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Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #100 on: March 10, 2016, 11:12:34 AM »
V E R Y  Nice... V E R Y clever!
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #101 on: March 10, 2016, 11:43:57 AM »
thanks for the compliments. he has many hours in the intake alone.. but hearing that kind of feedback helps. haha

thinking of something like this for the under hood air filter/box. anyone here happen to know the CFM requirements for an HX35.. Norm..??

600 CFM seems like plenty.. especially since it's forcibly being sucked in and not just passively pulled by cylinder suction.

would like to have a SqD type pre filter on it as well.. where did you source yours from Don?

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/spe-9831?seid=srese1&gclid=CKqNiP2VsMsCFQusaQodWiIFgA

http://www.sfxperformance.com/parts/SPT9832.htm

and possibly.. but less likely just based on space:
https://www.doghouserepair.com/store/item/8821/17-2516-air-filter-housing-aluminum-12-body-4-in-4-out-left-side-empi/


Offline OldKooT

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #102 on: March 10, 2016, 12:26:43 PM »
That looks nice.... as for size that's a tough call. I run 5" on my stationary well plants and honestly I wonder at times if that restricts them. They are stationary so there is no "ram effect" so I'd think the sizing on his has to be close. I guess I'd run as large a filter as you can and give it a try.



Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #103 on: March 10, 2016, 01:09:59 PM »
there is 4" in and out.. which is what the original filter on my 1st gen has. just not nearly the same filter area as that big 1 gal air filter (which I will be be going back to and away from the puny K&N I robbed from my XJ)

the snorkel/CAI is 4" as well, and the opening on the turbo. so.. I figured continuity throughout was a good idea. just don't want the 6" cone filter element in the air box to limit what I can do..

bear in mind, it's not a drag or pulling truck. it's meant to be a reliable DD with some towing every once in a while. (maybe tractor or jeep)

it seems to be coming together nicely.. the interior and gauges will be where it bogs down until i get back (not that I'm an electrical expert.. but have some understanding of it. hahah. still need to figure out a fuse box..

Offline KensAuto

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2016, 01:20:22 PM »
Awesome job on the intake!

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2016, 04:16:36 PM »
May have figured out how to upload videos.. oh snap

I guess you only need to know how to do that if the engine actually runs.. Don  ;D

http://s620.photobucket.com/user/swbhobie16/media/B9523525-2057-4A1D-9ADB-A8214FC82AC7.mp4.html


Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #106 on: March 10, 2016, 06:44:22 PM »
thanks for the compliments. he has many hours in the intake alone.. but hearing that kind of feedback helps. haha

thinking of something like this for the under hood air filter/box. anyone here happen to know the CFM requirements for an HX35.. Norm..??

600 CFM seems like plenty.. especially since it's forcibly being sucked in and not just passively pulled by cylinder suction.

would like to have a SqD type pre filter on it as well.. where did you source yours from Don?

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/spe-9831?seid=srese1&gclid=CKqNiP2VsMsCFQusaQodWiIFgA

http://www.sfxperformance.com/parts/SPT9832.htm

and possibly.. but less likely just based on space:
https://www.doghouserepair.com/store/item/8821/17-2516-air-filter-housing-aluminum-12-body-4-in-4-out-left-side-empi/



I think it's a Donnaldson product. Mine has the spinner inside. Since I flew whirly birds, I connected with it on a very basic level 8-0

I would think that motor needs a lot more than 600CFM.

On my Tundra which was supercharged, when I added the homemade 3" snorkel, it would only make 4 psi boost afterward when before it made 7psi. Turbos pull in a lot of air
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #107 on: March 10, 2016, 06:51:28 PM »
I have a small K&N cone filter (3.5" inlet or so) on my 1st gen 12 valve with HX35 and 2nd gen IC and I still make ~30ish psi in 2nd..  ??? maybe it will be roughly the same.. not entirely sure though. I suppose I can always go bigger if needed..??

the cobra makes 15ish psi on stock intake and SC.. so maybe quality of air filter is more important than surface area..?

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #108 on: March 10, 2016, 06:55:23 PM »
alittle better front shot of the engine



and the freshly painted NP205. I'll see if I can get my dad to take a better pic of the mounts and 205 bracket tmrw.


Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #109 on: March 10, 2016, 06:56:34 PM »
I have a small K&N cone filter (3.5" inlet or so) on my 1st gen 12 valve with HX35 and 2nd gen IC and I still make ~30ish psi in 2nd..  ??? maybe it will be roughly the same.. not entirely sure though. I suppose I can always go bigger if needed..??

the cobra makes 15ish psi on stock intake and SC.. so maybe quality of air filter is more important than surface area..?
And let's remember, overall PSI isn't what is making the horsepower, it's the volume.

A turbo capable of making 30 psi placed on a system with an inlet restriction sees 35psi at the point of the restriction and just upstream but flows less than it should. Open the restriction and now the turbo makes 30 psi, while flowing X + 10%.

The cylinder only counts molecules, It doesn't care if they were injected in there, flowed in there or were poured.
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #110 on: March 10, 2016, 07:33:27 PM »
I'm afraid my mind won't let me follow that train of thought at the moment being as I'm 1000 miles away from home and currently thinking of show loads and power distro. hahah. guess I don't see how the intake (of the motor where the gauge is plugged in) can see a higher psi but less volume..?

not saying it doesn't.. just can't wrap my head around it just yet

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #111 on: March 10, 2016, 09:32:33 PM »
i think I found the pre cleaner you were talking about Don. think it's gonna be en route in the next few days.


Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #112 on: March 10, 2016, 09:39:20 PM »
Pressure is the function of a given volume against some restriction. If the turbo wasn't hooked up to a hot pipe and just exited to atmosphere, I'll bet the pressure it made at the exit point would be pretty low.

By adding a motor downstream, you have introduced a restriction so the volume of air "Backs-up" creating pressure. Try to shove all that through a 1" opening and as long as you could keep it spinning, it would be making a whole lot of pressure right before the restriction, although flowing very little volume through the smaller hole

Make sense?

And all that is sub sonic lingo, Now get transsonic or even supersonic and a whole new factor comes into play. Compressibility...
Air does not like to compress beyond a certain point, when it is rapidly speeding up.

Bernoullis principle says that when a parcel of air meets a restriction like an air foil, it divides around it. A turbo vane is shaped like an air foil. The distance around one side is slightly further than the distance on the shorter side. Now the principal says that same air parcel will fight to meet again at the end of the restriction (Air foil). So one parcel of air has to go a bit faster. In doing so it "Spreads out" and thins just a bit in this process of speeding up. That creates a slight negative pressure or suction. On a compressor vane or a rotor blade or a wing of a stuka dive bomber that suction lifts the part up. The compressor wheel is shaped and pitched so that the suction it creates pulls more air in (Suction).

All that is fine until the air which is moving along, say 600 MPH and is accelerated from there. At this point to starts to back up against it's own density and can't do the stretching thing well. This sets up a leading edge shock wave. We know that as a sonic boom if you ever experienced one of those. That shock wave is highly disruptive. It actually unseats the air that connects all the air around a lifting surface to that surface. This molecule thin layer is called the boundary layer. If that separates, then we have bad stuff happening.

This is all a bit further along than the restriction thing I started with, but it does relate. It's not simple mechanics that causes the pressure changes, but complex aerodynamics fussin' with your cool intake pipe!
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Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #113 on: March 10, 2016, 09:41:52 PM »
i think I found the pre cleaner you were talking about Don. think it's gonna be en route in the next few days.


That's not it

Let me find it...
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Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #114 on: March 10, 2016, 09:45:13 PM »
It's a Donaldson "Top Spin"
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:48:44 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #115 on: March 10, 2016, 09:47:52 PM »
you should write a book.. ??? hahah

the next question would be, how could/would one test the VOLUME as it relates to PRESSURE once all gauges are hooked up? say I see 35 psi on autometer.. how do I know I'm getting good, solid volume and boost in the intake manifold?

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #116 on: March 10, 2016, 09:49:28 PM »
I saw the top spin models. do you see any issue with what i posted? my dad likes the look of the clear sided model.. hhah

Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #117 on: March 10, 2016, 09:57:35 PM »
you should write a book.. ??? hahah

the next question would be, how could/would one test the VOLUME as it relates to PRESSURE once all gauges are hooked up? say I see 35 psi on autometer.. how do I know I'm getting good, solid volume and boost in the intake manifold?
well you'll have to purchase a BDPPVMD (Big Don Pipe Pressure and volume measurin' device)
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Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #118 on: March 10, 2016, 10:02:16 PM »
I saw the top spin models. do you see any issue with what i posted? my dad likes the look of the clear sided model.. hhah
Well, I have one on my CASE and the darned thing gets all fuzzed up and cloudy lookin'!

Cheap junk if you ask me. Now mine atop Square D says "This guy here who owns me, why, he's intelligent...or legitimate, or something like that. People see that truck and their eyes quickly go to the top spin, which I like to call my "Top Hat" and I can just read their minds "This guy here is intelligent...I can see it in that top thingy!"

That's what I have to say about that!
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2016, 10:12:33 PM »

the next question would be, how could/would one test the VOLUME as it relates to PRESSURE once all gauges are hooked up? say I see 35 psi on autometer.. how do I know I'm getting good, solid volume and boost in the intake manifold?

You being serious? or trying to keep Dr. D on his toes?

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #120 on: March 10, 2016, 10:29:02 PM »
just trying to clarify. he had said earlier than I could see higher PSI but not the volume I needed or that could be produced in a particular system.

I guess I was thinking of restricting the wrong end. after re reading, you are talking about where it feeds in to the motor, not where it air is coming from (if I understood that after the 3rd or 4th read. hahah)

I guess I was thinking that since the turbo was forcibly sucking air through the snorkel and filter, it was less about surface area of the filter and more about the quality of the filter material. the piping from the turbo into the IC and the intake horn are all factory, so it's as dodge intended. I was mainly concerned with a 6" total diameter cone filter inside a sealed tube only opened to the snorkel being able to flow enough air to keep the HX35 happy.

my 1st gen 12 valve with 2nd gen turbo and IC pushes 32 ish psi. and that probe isn't in the intake horn but the actual manifold itself, past what would be called the 'most restrictive point' (square hole between intake horn and manifold just above cylinders

just making sure we're all on the same page  :-\ hahah

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #121 on: March 10, 2016, 10:31:18 PM »
I think maybe we were both talking about the same thing, but thinking of what was effecting it coming from different ends.. ???

Online stlaser

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #122 on: March 10, 2016, 10:46:25 PM »
I saw the top spin models. do you see any issue with what i posted? my dad likes the look of the clear sided model.. hhah
Well, I have one on my CASE and the darned thing gets all fuzzed up and cloudy lookin'!

Cheap junk if you ask me. Now mine atop Square D says "This guy here who owns me, why, he's intelligent...or legitimate, or something like that. People see that truck and their eyes quickly go to the top spin, which I like to call my "Top Hat" and I can just read their minds "This guy here is intelligent...I can see it in that top thingy!"

That's what I have to say about that!

Question, how does anyone see the top hat on sq d? You carrying a picture of it around taped to your forehead or was this possibly on the way to the diesel mechanics shop on the trailer behind C-max as you were stuck in a mall mulch bed again?  ::)
Learn the rules like a pro so that you can break them like an artist -Pablo Picasso-

Offline KensAuto

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #123 on: March 10, 2016, 10:46:38 PM »
Ahh. Well in plain terms (not fancy pilot ed-you-my-kated terms) if you have a known psi at the intake, and it's what's to be expected from a certain engine (lets say 35psi is max expected) and you achieve that number, then volume is not an issue, because if the required volume isn't met, pressure drops.

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #124 on: March 10, 2016, 11:15:42 PM »
that's how it worked in my mind.. but when he threw in witchcraft gyro copter aerodynamics (or lack there of..) it threw me off alittle. hahah.

what he said makes perfect sense, pushing a lot on air down a pipe into/through a small hole creates a lot if pressure, but no volume. I wasn't concerned with flow from the compressor wheel to the engine intake, I was/am concerned with getting enough air to the inlet of the turbo through a 4" pipe and 6" cone filter

btw Don, it looked as if the top spin is only rated to either 200 or 400CFM (not sure what the LR and HR designations are for).. so maybe that's why SqD isn't running..?  ??? ;D

all joking aside, I can't wait til you upload a vid out of the blue with no intro or hype of it running and driving to the store on its first 'be double E double are you in'

Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #125 on: March 11, 2016, 10:28:47 PM »
I saw the top spin models. do you see any issue with what i posted? my dad likes the look of the clear sided model.. hhah
Well, I have one on my CASE and the darned thing gets all fuzzed up and cloudy lookin'!

Cheap junk if you ask me. Now mine atop Square D says "This guy here who owns me, why, he's intelligent...or legitimate, or something like that. People see that truck and their eyes quickly go to the top spin, which I like to call my "Top Hat" and I can just read their minds "This guy here is intelligent...I can see it in that top thingy!"

That's what I have to say about that!

Question, how does anyone see the top hat on sq d? You carrying a picture of it around taped to your forehead or was this possibly on the way to the diesel mechanics shop on the trailer behind C-max as you were stuck in a mall mulch bed again?  ::)
I drag folks in there all the time. Then use the snow shovel to remove the dust so they can make out the outline of a truck
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #126 on: March 11, 2016, 11:16:21 PM »
I saw the top spin models. do you see any issue with what i posted? my dad likes the look of the clear sided model.. hhah
Well, I have one on my CASE and the darned thing gets all fuzzed up and cloudy lookin'!

Cheap junk if you ask me. Now mine atop Square D says "This guy here who owns me, why, he's intelligent...or legitimate, or something like that. People see that truck and their eyes quickly go to the top spin, which I like to call my "Top Hat" and I can just read their minds "This guy here is intelligent...I can see it in that top thingy!"

That's what I have to say about that!

Question, how does anyone see the top hat on sq d? You carrying a picture of it around taped to your forehead or was this possibly on the way to the diesel mechanics shop on the trailer behind C-max as you were stuck in a mall mulch bed again?  ::)
I drag folks in there all the time. Then use the snow shovel to remove the dust so they can make out the outline of a truck


I have a sneaking suspicion you'll have it running in the coming weeks and it'll just show up somewhere..

Online stlaser

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #127 on: March 11, 2016, 11:40:23 PM »
I'm guessing trn's shop by the back of a trailer.....
Learn the rules like a pro so that you can break them like an artist -Pablo Picasso-

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #128 on: March 11, 2016, 11:49:24 PM »
I'm guessing trn's shop by the back of a trailer.....

shots fired! on every recent thread. hahah

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2016, 07:03:06 AM »
If it were a crew cab, I'd be standing in his driveway with a couple dollars in my hand.  Dually and trailer with me.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2016, 07:35:52 AM »
right there with you. I want a crew so bad. passed up a solid body and rear doors from one guy along with a rolling chassis with all mounts/brackets/axles from another  not too long ago. I had an engine already lined up as well.. and have an extra 47rh to go with it. it would have been pretty awesome.

one day..

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #131 on: March 12, 2016, 07:07:18 PM »
TMR NP205 brace/support



trans and tcase support/mount



Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #132 on: March 12, 2016, 08:53:24 PM »
Man that's going to look good when you are done.  Lets just hope it doesnt turn into a paperweight like SQ D
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2016, 08:58:43 PM »
Man that's going to look good when you are done.  Lets just hope it doesnt turn into a paperweight like SQ D

http://s620.photobucket.com/user/swbhobie16/media/B9523525-2057-4A1D-9ADB-A8214FC82AC7.mp4.html

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #134 on: March 12, 2016, 09:03:10 PM »
already once step closer  ;D

Online JR

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #135 on: March 12, 2016, 09:09:02 PM »
Very nice. Remember making one for my old 77 GMC and it was not as nice as yours.
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Online cudakidd53

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2016, 09:12:08 PM »
Where's all the smoke at?  The last one of those that ran on here made a lot of smoke inside a garage and it looked all foggy and such......
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #137 on: March 12, 2016, 09:15:44 PM »
Where's all the smoke at?  The last one of those that ran on here made a lot of smoke inside a garage and it looked all foggy and such......

ohh it blew lots of smoke to begin with.. I think it was from having sat for awhile. it burned it out and runs pretty clean now.

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2016, 09:19:24 PM »

this is what it looked like.. it took lots of purple power and naphtha



and it turned to this..  ;D

« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 09:24:46 PM by swbhobie16 »

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2016, 10:05:44 PM »
Nice!


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Online Flyin6

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #140 on: March 12, 2016, 10:14:28 PM »
That made a difference!
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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #141 on: March 12, 2016, 10:36:21 PM »
I was amazed when we knocked off the grime and degreased it. shot it with cummins beige and aircraft paint remover on the valve covers, intake and turbo compressor housing. my dad wanted to make it look like a machine, so we did. lol

Offline BobbyB

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #142 on: March 12, 2016, 10:38:28 PM »
I was amazed when we knocked off the grime and degreased it. shot it with cummins beige and aircraft paint remover on the valve covers, intake and turbo compressor housing. my dad wanted to make it look like a machine, so we did. lol

Looks good.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #143 on: March 12, 2016, 10:45:48 PM »
I can't wait to get some color on the body with raptor liner inside. if nothing else just have a body sitting on it behind the engine and a core support for radiator and intercooler to hang on.

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2016, 01:19:15 PM »
I cant wait either! Inspiring project build here!


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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2016, 02:03:49 PM »
this is what I'm thinking.. gauge wise. there is a single panel on the center of the dash that houses everything on the original. and in tying to keep it looking as 'factory' as possible.. use that space again. (forgive the hand drawn graphics and not quite round circles.. was using E tape rolls that happened to be the right size and working off the truck center console during a rain shower..)



they are all organized by full and half sweep (graphics are representative of actual orientation/layout/scale and will all be autometer Z series black face/white letter gauges)

like these:

'full sweep'


'half sweep'


the reason for alternating between full and half sweeps are simple bc some don't come in full. so, I tried to make it as visually appealing as possible given the options

Online cj7ox

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2016, 02:24:56 PM »
Those'll look good!


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2016, 02:29:12 PM »
Cool! you thinkin' about having an EGT probe? ...now would be the time!

...nevermind. duh
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 02:30:09 PM by KensAuto »

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #148 on: March 13, 2016, 02:31:55 PM »
Cool! you thinkin' about having an EGT probe? ...now would be the time!

...nevermind. duh

yes sir. there is currently a provision in the manifold just before the the flange, but I'm going to fill that with a bolt and put it downstream of the turbo.. so if it does rust and fall off, it's not getting sucked through the exhaust turbine. hahah

that's where mine is on my 1st gen and it seems to read accurate enough. can't see 6" making a huge difference

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: M715.9
« Reply #149 on: March 13, 2016, 02:39:01 PM »
these gauges. sorry.. video was from showing the bouncy voltage common to these first gens being fixed! (didn't have any pics of the A pillar gauge install)

http://s620.photobucket.com/user/swbhobie16/media/D942B54D-6C5D-449C-AE00-4D349158AF93.mp4.html
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 02:39:50 PM by swbhobie16 »