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Offline wyorunner

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Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« on: July 07, 2016, 01:27:28 AM »
Ok Gents, I am building a new rear bumper for our 2002 4Runner. The truck has been around the block and been beat to tar because I drive it like I stole it when we take it offroad. I am finally getting around to building a new rear bumper for it. Sadly, it has been without one for FAR too long. So, why am I posting all this useless info, well I'm hoping you guys can help me with the little things, like where to buy steel components that are already pre-made.

So, short story, I have put way too much time and money into this rig and my wife has been so loving and drives it as her DD, but shouldn't. We sold our Duramax because we thought we were going OCONUS...We are now NOT doing that. I have put this particular project off FAR too long. I figured I'd post it up because hey, we all like seeing melted metal, and who knows maybe soon enough it will get a solid front axle swap.

Oh, were is my Cummins crew cab??? Being neglected, thats where. But still going.

Will post steel pictures tomorrow when I take them, in the mean time, please turn me onto a good source for tire carrier spindles and shackle mount attachments. (Wow, I feel as though I should know all of this as I have used it in the past!)

I looked at trailgear, total chaos (thought they had more than susupension), and ballisticfab.

Sorry to waste your time, but thanks for the help!

-T
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 02:04:45 AM by wyorunner »

Online Flyin6

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2016, 09:26:23 AM »
Well post up what you're starting with and let us know how you are equipped with tools/welder/shop area. Then sketch up what you are thinking about and post that up. Let's get this project off the paper and on to the (Cardboard) welding table!
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2016, 01:03:46 AM »
So I was finally able to have some time to work on our stuff rather than something for somebody else. Can't say much progress was made, but some was and things were learned. 

I started with a bunch of old steel that I had bent up years ago in order to do this project, but I never got to it, and then we moved. The only new steel was the two pieces I had bent up in order to create the main attachment and build off points. However, I came to find out they are two short by about 1/2" so I added some of the 3/16" bumper I cut out in order to make it long enough.


This is what I started with, the main portion of the bumper is 3/16" and is 60" wide. I bought this when we lived in Georgia, after my first attempt at a rear bumper failed miserably. And by miserably, I mean I didn't think it through and rushed it in order to be able to pull our M416 with roof top tent we had at the time.  The two pieces that will bolt to the frame are 1/4" plate bent into a U that is 2 3/4" on all three sides. This will have to be modified a little in order for it to fit the frame because of body mounts and a cross member. You can see these two pieces in the middle of the pile.




This is the only real progress I made, and that is got the small amount cut out in order for this main piece to be able to fit on the 4Runner.



This is what the center part will look like when it is all done. Of course I am going to add sides to it that wrap around the body and finish off at the wheel well. As well as a spare tire carrier, which I have realized might be a bit of a pickle to make work.



What has been used for tire carrier spindles, as well as clevis mounts? I am currently looking at comp4x4s stuff.

Now, lessons learned, my outlets in my garage are on a 15 amp breaker (really not surprised) and my welder lasts all of a short pass before tripping, and does not seem to running at full strength as penetration didn't seem to be what I know the welder is capable of. I am using a Miller 211 for the metal melting/joining, I have an Oxy/ace to do some cutting as well as my trusty angle grinder that made my front bumper.

I am going to town tomorrow to get a bigger breaker so I can actually be able to weld, I really should wire in 240, like I did for the house in GA, but 110 does the job as well.

Thoughts on clevis' steel as well as tire carrier spindles. Thanks guys.

-T

Online Flyin6

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2016, 09:44:01 AM »
I use Ruff-Stuff for a lot of my fabrication parts. Never had the first problem with them

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/BUMPER.html

As for the welder, you are definately pushing the limits of a Miller 211 in building a bumper. It looks to me like it can only burn a maximum of 1/4" steel.
Several thoughts on that
First, 1/4" is pretty light for impact regions of a off road bumper, well, a combat vehicle bumper. It's pretty light for the winch box and the frame mounts. Having said that, I think you can get away with 1/4", although, you are on the edge. If you have a significant bump, it will bend and distort unless you have it boxed pretty well. I like 3/8" for the mounts and the winch box and the support for the wings

Secondly, Take a look at the duty cycle of that machine when burning the thicker steels. Probably isn't very long

Next, a 15 Amp breaker is usually mated to wire rated to carry a 15 amp load. You could theoretically install a 100 amp breaker on that same wire, but the wire would be totally overcome with the additional amperage, and heat up and melt. That is what causes house fires in some cases.

I'd say that if you are now getting into building bumpers, then why not just run a 50 amp, 230 volt circuit (If possible) and be done with it. That circuit will handle a miller 212, which I use which will burn pretty much anything you encounter with building trucks.

Just some thoughts for you to consider. We don't want to see you lose your home over a bumper!
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Online stlaser

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 10:18:35 AM »
That Miller 211 is fine for 1/4-1/2" material. I would get it wired to 220 & you need to then understand duty cycles. So at 40% duty cycle it can only run for 4 mins then needs to sit and cool for 6 mins. Other than that it will have no issue welding a truck bumper. If you over run / over heat the machine you can fry the board in it. Not a cheap fix, thus duty cycles are important.

I've welded 1/2" plate with a Lincoln 135 & then stuck the die in a 250 ton press. So have a little justifiable experience to back up my statements.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 10:36:53 AM by stlaser »
Learn the rules like a pro so that you can break them like an artist -Pablo Picasso-

Offline cruizng

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2016, 10:21:22 AM »
I would agree with Don. I have a Miller 211 and have been fighting the terrible wiring in my house and garage. I should just bite the bullet and wire in a 50amp service but the house is up for sale and I didn't want to spend a lot of unnecessary money.

When welding up my table I was welding 1/4" 2.5" square tubing and if I jumped from joint to joint too quick and kept running the welder the breaker would pop. Then I would would have to wait until it cooled down to start back up. If I pause between welds it doesn't pop. The Welder runs fine with the 1/4" and 1/2" plate but just not for long periods. I installed a 30amp 230V a while back to match the source from the extended panel in the garage. If we were staying I would probably have a 100amp service installed. That way I could run the welder, plasma cutter, and a 230v compressor without having to worry about the popping noises. I tried to run a portable compressor and Hypertherm 45 and it popped the breaker also. GRrrrrrrrr.. ::)

Hey's it's only time and money!!
Mike
2008 D-Max pretty stock except small lift, tires, and intake.

Online TexasRedNeck

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 11:03:52 AM »
You can do what I did a couple of houses ago.  Go to HD or Lowes and buy some 10-4 cable and make an extension cord off the dryer circuit or if you are closer to the panel, pull the wires for the dryer circuit and temporarily wire in the extension cable only when you are welding.  I still have the cable and box, three houses later.  You never know when it will come in handy.
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 01:25:59 PM »
I use Ruff-Stuff for a lot of my fabrication parts. Never had the first problem with them

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/BUMPER.html

As for the welder, you are definately pushing the limits of a Miller 211 in building a bumper. It looks to me like it can only burn a maximum of 1/4" steel.
Several thoughts on that
First, 1/4" is pretty light for impact regions of a off road bumper, well, a combat vehicle bumper. It's pretty light for the winch box and the frame mounts. Having said that, I think you can get away with 1/4", although, you are on the edge. If you have a significant bump, it will bend and distort unless you have it boxed pretty well. I like 3/8" for the mounts and the winch box and the support for the wings

Secondly, Take a look at the duty cycle of that machine when burning the thicker steels. Probably isn't very long

Next, a 15 Amp breaker is usually mated to wire rated to carry a 15 amp load. You could theoretically install a 100 amp breaker on that same wire, but the wire would be totally overcome with the additional amperage, and heat up and melt. That is what causes house fires in some cases.

I'd say that if you are now getting into building bumpers, then why not just run a 50 amp, 230 volt circuit (If possible) and be done with it. That circuit will handle a miller 212, which I use which will burn pretty much anything you encounter with building trucks.

Just some thoughts for you to consider. We don't want to see you lose your home over a bumper!

Just an FYI, ruffstuff is where the spindle that broke on my setup came from!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 03:13:09 PM by wilsonphil »

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 01:33:50 PM »
I've done the extension cord from the dryer while renting a house.  It is also possible to take two 120 circuits and make 240.  We have done it on the farm before.  I forget how exactly you need to do it though.  Probably isn't to code.  Definitely do not just pull a 15 or 20 amp and replace it with a 30.

1/4" plate should be plenty thick for what you are doing.  No need to go any heavier in my opinion.  You can get a lot more strength by adding an appropriately placed gusset or support then just making it out of thicker steel. 

The welder should also be fine.  Just make sure you take your time and get good penetration on your welds.  Make 2 or three passes where needed.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 01:38:48 PM by Bear9350 »

Offline rpar86

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 03:05:21 PM »
Is your electrical panel in the garage or elsewhere? Would be simplest (and safest) to wire in a dedicated 240 and it would be a selling point for a future occupant. I saw the 240v in my garage and that's was it - had to have this house :)  Two years in and I've never used it (don't have anything to use with it...yet).

A quick inspection of your garage plugs will tell you a lot. Pull one out -- is it backwired (the push-in wire type)? If so, it is likely 14ga wire, which is rated for 15amp. If the wires are wrapped around the screws on the side, it may still be 14ga (in that case the electrician was NOT lazy and did a good job), but it might also be 12ga.  Is the romex jacket yellow? That's 12ga. Is it white? Depending on age of house it may be either 12 or 14ga, but in newer construction white means 14ga. Orange is 10ga.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 03:06:35 PM by rpar86 »
Ryan
2006 GMC 3500 6.6 CCLB SRW 4x4

Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 04:42:24 PM »
Gents, thanks for the info. I spoke with an electrician this morning about my dilemma (only reason I spoke to one is because he's my brother), our solution is to put a 50amp breaker connected to a 240 outlet right below the breaker panel. Then make an extension cord the can handle the load. That way when I run into this again two years from now in a different house, easy fix.

Front bumper is built out of 1/4" mounts and has taken a pretty solid beating. The last rear bumper that was actually complete and had a removable tire carrier was made out of 1/4" mounts as well, and took a hit from a car and didn't even scratch the paint! Thus the reason I went with 1/4" mounts, I think once it's done it'll be strong enough for what I need.

The 211 has served me well all things considered, may be small but it hasn't really let me down. Built the front bumper with out too much of a fuss.

Stay tuned for more, hopefully going to be able to make it in to town today to get what's needed, and a few other miscellaneous automotive parts.

Thanks again for the info everyone.



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Offline rpar86

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 04:58:00 PM »
Perfect solution!  When the house sells, the new owner will already have a 50A 240v connection for their welder, compressor, tanning bed, kiln or whatever other needs they might have! :) Value-add right there! Probably $50 in material for the breaker and box/wire/plug that stays with the house. The extension cord will cost a bit more, but you get to keep it.  Win/Win!
Ryan
2006 GMC 3500 6.6 CCLB SRW 4x4

Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 05:17:33 PM »
Perfect solution!  When the house sells, the new owner will already have a 50A 240v connection for their welder, compressor, tanning bed, kiln or whatever other needs they might have! :) Value-add right there! Probably $50 in material for the breaker and box/wire/plug that stays with the house. The extension cord will cost a bit more, but you get to keep it.  Win/Win!

Funny you should mention tanning beds. The wife of the couple who were the previous owner ran a spray tan salon thing out of the garage here. We got mail for the business for a while after we moved in. 

Yea the big expense will be in the wire. Oh well, it'll last me for a long time and I'll get my money out of it.

Now, my son just needs to wake up from his nap so we can go to town!


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Online TexasRedNeck

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 06:15:27 PM »
good solution.

For reference, you can make 220 out of 2 110v but it is definitely not up to code.  Remember that 3 wire residential is  220v 3 wire (110v - neutral - 110v) coming into the house.  One "leg" from the hot to common is 110 and the other "leg" from hot to common is the other 110v and opposite phase. (that's why some breakers snap into the left side and others to the right side of the panel)

If you can find two outlets that are from opposite legs, you can use the hots from each and one common(doesent matter which) to make up a 220v.  You need a separate ground wire (to ground at the panel and not neutral) to make up a 4 wire 220v.

Not advisable but it can be done.  And remember ampacity is irrelevant to voltage (to a certain extent) so if you have 15 amp wire its still 15 amps whether its 110 or 220.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 06:17:32 PM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 01:02:53 AM »
Ok, This is also long over due as I left for WY with a bumper (of sorts). Did this the weekend of Aug 13 just before leaving for two weeks in Wyoming.

First up the mounts.

Cut and bent the parts hanging off the sides from the original U that they were. And bending .25" without a vice or a press or any real means to hold them stable sure can work up a sweat! Especially when the torch is being used too.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 01:32:00 AM by wyorunner »

Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 01:21:37 AM »
Then I boxed in the ends of the middle bent out and the inside of the front bend out (it would be further to the front of the vehicle is why I say front).

The pieces to box


A partial picture of the boxing and one of my better welds.


Cut the hole for the receiver


Welded the main bumper up to the mounts which were bolted on, then on went the receiver tube.


Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2016, 01:21:58 AM »
You can see the mounts and the receiver tube here.


Then started the interesting part of making the sides of the bumper. This is what I initially came up with and then was modified.


Beginning to go on here.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 01:25:15 AM by wyorunner »

Offline wyorunner

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2016, 01:26:16 AM »
Then because of time constraints to get on the road pictures stopped happening as frequently.
I went with the Comp 4x4 dual shear heavy duty spindle, it is massive. This picture doesn't do it justice.


A note on Comp4x4, I highly recommend them because of their customer service. I purchased the spindle and clevis mounts from them, well they sent me the wrong mounts. So instead of trying to hassle with getting these back the guy I spoke with (I believe the owner), didn't even hesitate to send me the correct product. They were in the mail that day, Monday, and at the house Wednesday. So two thumbs up for those guys.

Like the problem wilsonphil had on his Ramcharger, I too struggled to find a place to utilize the bracket. I didn't put enough thought into it from the beginning, or else I would have done the sides differently. So I simply put a piece of 3/16" thick 2x3" box tube perpendicular to the bumper and mounted it in that and to the face of the bumper. It is welded to the back of the bumper and side support as well, should be stout enough.



Then came the actual swing out. Made out of 1x3 1/8" box. Again no process pics sorry.



So thats all I have for pictures. Sadly the bumper did not get completely finished, as I needed to get on the road. I worked on it into the wee hours of the morning and then all day monday when I was to have been on the road, and left Tuesday after putting on some "finishing" touches. The only thing that needs to be finished is some plating and a new catch and lock for the tire carrier arm. We are pretty pleased with it, but it of course could be better and could have went better. Will put some more pictures up of when it is fully finished.

Mods, If you want to combine these into one post that is perfectly fine by me, I tried several times and had the hardest time to get this to post at all.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 01:30:45 AM by wyorunner »

Online Flyin6

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Re: Nothing New, but continued improvement (02 4Runner)
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2016, 08:58:31 AM »
Good start!

Brace up swing away box. That piece of angle is not enough. That will warp over time

I'd extend bracing out in all directions and cap it up, again for strength.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
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