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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2017, 11:35:27 PM »
Haha, the upside down trick.
When I did mine, built it right side up.
Was a pain with some of it, but flipping it over wasn't happening.

Are you dropping the cross members so the decking is flush with sides (looks that way with the 2x4 under), or decking over the works?
I'm a fan of having steel at the top if you ever need to weld an extra anchor point or bracing.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 11:36:54 PM by Sammconn »
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Online stlaser

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2017, 11:49:21 PM »
Maybe a dumb comment but you're using a measuring tape corner to corner to square the frame not that little 6" square right?
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2017, 11:53:54 PM »
Maybe a dumb comment but you're using a measuring tape corner to corner to square the frame not that little 6" square right?
Not a dumb comment.
I'd thought it and forgot to mention...
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2017, 07:26:07 AM »
Maybe a dumb comment but you're using a measuring tape corner to corner to square the frame not that little 6" square right?

Haha yes I will be, that was just the very first corner that was tacked, so was just checking it. I just tacked in a couple cross members for a little strength before I tack the front of the frame in since there's a slight bow in the long side pieces of channel. Just wanted to be sure when i adjusted them to get the front piece tacked in, it wouldn't bugger up the rear piece that I had tacked in already. But yeah, I'll be checking for overall sqaure-ness with a tape, corner to corner over the whole deck.

And yes, the wood decking will fit between the frame rail, and flush with the top of the rails.

Online stlaser

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2017, 09:30:07 AM »
Maybe a dumb comment but you're using a measuring tape corner to corner to square the frame not that little 6" square right?

Haha yes I will be, that was just the very first corner that was tacked, so was just checking it. I just tacked in a couple cross members for a little strength before I tack the front of the frame in since there's a slight bow in the long side pieces of channel. Just wanted to be sure when i adjusted them to get the front piece tacked in, it wouldn't bugger up the rear piece that I had tacked in already. But yeah, I'll be checking for overall sqaure-ness with a tape, corner to corner over the whole deck.

And yes, the wood decking will fit between the frame rail, and flush with the top of the rails.


 :likebutton: carry on then! :grin:

Edit: another thing that helps you keep square when in process building "large" structures is a 3,4,5 triangle (yeah, yeah, algebra who's ever gunna use that right?) but those numbers can be substituted for multiples of each number for even larger projects. If someone is not aware what I'm talking about I can lay out the math for you.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 09:33:34 AM by stlaser »
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Online Bear9350

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2017, 09:50:03 AM »



 :likebutton: carry on then! :grin:

Edit: another thing that helps you keep square when in process building "large" structures is a 3,4,5 triangle (yeah, yeah, geometry who's ever gunna use that right?) but those numbers can be substituted for multiples of each number (this is the algebra part) for even larger projects. If someone is not aware what I'm talking about I can lay out the math for you.

That first bit is actually geometry.  Based of the Pythagorean Theorem. a2+b2=c2  Using this you can calculate the length of the hypotenuse of a right angle when you know the 2 leg lengths.  Say your trailer is 20' long and 9' wide, instead of measuring across corners and matching them up you can calculate it out to be 21.9' from corner to corner.

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2017, 09:08:11 PM »
I've slowly but surely been making some progress. Got the front end of the frame tacked, and got some more cross members cut and tacked in place as well.



Also, was checking square each time I tacked one in place, this looks good enough for this fella!

Rear left corner, to front right:


Rear right corner, to front left:

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2017, 10:36:31 PM »



 :likebutton: carry on then! :grin:

Edit: another thing that helps you keep square when in process building "large" structures is a 3,4,5 triangle (yeah, yeah, geometry who's ever gunna use that right?) but those numbers can be substituted for multiples of each number (this is the algebra part) for even larger projects. If someone is not aware what I'm talking about I can lay out the math for you.

That first bit is actually geometry.  Based of the Pythagorean Theorem. a2+b2=c2  Using this you can calculate the length of the hypotenuse of a right angle when you know the 2 leg lengths.  Say your trailer is 20' long and 9' wide, instead of measuring across corners and matching them up you can calculate it out to be 21.9' from corner to corner.
Hey hey hey. We are just a bunch of knuckle draggers here!   No more of that smart math stuff. 


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Online stlaser

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2017, 11:25:46 PM »



 :likebutton: carry on then! :grin:

Edit: another thing that helps you keep square when in process building "large" structures is a 3,4,5 triangle (yeah, yeah, geometry who's ever gunna use that right?) but those numbers can be substituted for multiples of each number (this is the algebra part) for even larger projects. If someone is not aware what I'm talking about I can lay out the math for you.

That first bit is actually geometry.  Based of the Pythagorean Theorem. a2+b2=c2  Using this you can calculate the length of the hypotenuse of a right angle when you know the 2 leg lengths.  Say your trailer is 20' long and 9' wide, instead of measuring across corners and matching them up you can calculate it out to be 21.9' from corner to corner.

First, are you related to Ken?

Second, I knew it was one of those classes I really disliked in school. Guess I assumed since it was an equation it was algebra..... I stand corrected though.  :likebutton:
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2017, 12:07:25 PM »
Laid the springs and mounts onto the frame today to mark where they are going to go so that I can plan the locations of the cross-members in that area.



Currently have all but 3 cross-members tacked into place. Need to get two more 7' pieces of 3" channel to finish it up.


Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2017, 03:28:34 PM »
Looking good and square!
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2017, 07:13:28 PM »
Just did some small things tonight. Got my spring mounts tacked on as you can see. Put a cross member right between the front spring mounts, and may put a small gusset on them too. Was reading that the biggest cause of torsional load no the side rails comes from the front axle, in a multi-axle setup, when the trailer is turning.



I still need to weld in 3 cross members. I have one ready to go, but I will use it last since it's been my template for cutting the rest. I'll be putting one more between the front and rear spring mount, and two more in that wider gap.

Also cleaned up with spots on the 4 corners so that those can be stitched up any time. If I think I might be getting my new MIG soon, I will hold off and do it with that.

Next big thing will be either welding it all up solid and/or putting on the fully wrapped tongue. I'm not sure where exactly to make the bends in the tongue yet, but I'm guessing I'd basically lay the tongue up as if were going to be a 50 deg A-frame tongue, and instead of trimming the ends off they get bent around and welded to the bottom of the frame.

I'm also thing about 55" from the front of the deck to the tongue, sound like enough?


« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 07:14:09 PM by rcampbell »

Online Bear9350

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2017, 08:06:56 PM »
I have about 54" from the front of the deck to the ball and that is more than enough.

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2017, 08:25:27 PM »
I have about 54" from the front of the deck to the ball and that is more than enough.

Ok, good to know. I was thinking it should be over 4 feet, so low-mid 50's made sense to me I guess.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2017, 08:08:17 AM »
Looks great. Have you considered adding a torque tube down the centerline?


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Online stlaser

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2017, 08:23:43 AM »
Looks great. Have you considered adding a torque tube down the centerline?


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Explain please
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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2017, 08:46:56 AM »
https://www.pjtrailers.com/options/torque-tube/

I have not seen any examples of a torque tube or seen where it is an option on any trailers less then 14,000 lbs though. 

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2017, 09:43:24 AM »
I was thinking the same thing, never really saw them on a trailer of this size before.

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2017, 10:44:29 AM »
Copy, I've owned trailers up to 25k & they never had them. Not sure it's anything other than an added value item i.e. Something they can add & charge you money with little affect other than increasing your empty weight. Reason I say that is we regularly over loaded our 25k deck over with steel. Other than wheel bearings, brakes & occasional suspension component on the trailer we had little issues. Not that any of those are little issues but we figured it was part of the game so to speak.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2017, 12:36:38 AM »
On trailers with beams less than 10 inches I've experienced some lateral flex with good loads. But then I tend to live with overkill as my mantra


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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2017, 06:50:02 PM »
Test fit the axles and springs while things are still tacked. Obviously will be spring-under setup, but just set them on to make sure everything lined up...and it did!

Next step is last 3 cross members, full weld of frame (at least what I can do while it's upside down) and then tongue!




Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2017, 12:00:07 AM »
That's some good progress


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Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2017, 12:55:26 AM »
Good work. What is the small block for?
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2017, 12:58:39 PM »
Just noticed you have all idler hubs.
Do you have brakes?
Reason I ask, at various GVW's you need brakes on one or both.
All depends on what your regs are.
I have some for those axles, and if shipping is reasonable I could send one axles brakes, unless you have already.
Now it is a lot easier to mock up without the extra weight of the brakes.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2017, 05:33:33 PM »
Go both
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2017, 06:03:57 PM »
Just noticed you have all idler hubs.
Do you have brakes?
Reason I ask, at various GVW's you need brakes on one or both.
All depends on what your regs are.
I have some for those axles, and if shipping is reasonable I could send one axles brakes, unless you have already.
Now it is a lot easier to mock up without the extra weight of the brakes.

I have brake hubs and brakes for both axles, just didn't put them on yet to keep them nice and light for moving around the shop by hand.

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2017, 06:06:36 PM »
Good work. What is the small block for?

An excellent question. I bought it for like $125 bucks, complete engine, two q-jets etc. Hoped to put it into a 81-87 Chevy 4x4 truck, but I think now I may go with a 5.3 or 6.0 so this one might be built for something a little more fun than a daily driver, but not sure yet. It's a 4-bolt main block, has been bored .030 over already, but i figure not harm in taking it to 0.040 if needed.

Offline Sammconn

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2017, 06:08:43 PM »
Yes no brakes is way easier to move around.
Good, you've got both covered.

I noticed it and forgot to ask, the small block, toys are fun...
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2017, 09:59:49 PM »
Do the 5.3, I have that for my elky.
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2017, 07:56:07 PM »
Was just looking at the angle of my spring shackles, and I'm thinking I may pop off the  mounts on either end and pull them out a bit so that there's more angle on the shackles. They seems a little too vertical to me.

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2017, 05:44:10 PM »
Well I moved the spring mounts 3/4" away from the center, and I personally think the angle of the shackles looks better now, what do you guys think?



Also did a few sections of weld on each corner to get things a little more permanent, and to make sure the welder is working ok.




Did this in each corner, and it's still very square corner to corner!


Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2017, 05:53:05 PM »
No expert, but the welds look a bit thin - turn up the wire feed speed some - melted the material but might be missing penetration without enough added material from the wire feed.
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2017, 05:59:46 PM »
No expert, but the welds look a bit thin - turn up the wire feed speed some - melted the material but might be missing penetration without enough added material from the wire feed.

I wondered that myself as well. The welds on the top had a decent gap, so some of it settles in the gap. I'll try turning it up a little though and see how it look. It's got a nice sizzle comin' out of it now, but a little more couldn't hurt.

Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2017, 06:26:40 PM »
If he has good Vs I think he is fine. It is smooth, less chance of a stress crack. I bet that is only .125 where is welding.

I would gusset the corners well is all.

I think you are fine on the springs too. Those spring do not have a huge arch so I doubt you would see much past vertical with a heavy load.





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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2017, 07:14:09 PM »
I think you are fine on the springs too. Those spring do not have a huge arch so I doubt you would see much past vertical with a heavy load.

You mean in my latest pic I assume yes?

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2017, 07:48:14 PM »
I think Cuda's smoking crack.. looks good from my recliner. If it breaks, I'll delete this post. :)

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Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2017, 08:09:03 PM »
I think you are fine on the springs too. Those spring do not have a huge arch so I doubt you would see much past vertical with a heavy load.

You mean in my latest pic I assume yes?

Yes, If that is the new angle, good job.

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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2017, 08:24:57 PM »
I think you are fine on the springs too. Those spring do not have a huge arch so I doubt you would see much past vertical with a heavy load.

You mean in my latest pic I assume yes?

Yes, If that is the new angle, good job.

Yeah thats the new angle, i thought it looked better. Just holdin er on with vice grips right now!

Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2017, 09:46:29 PM »
Yep, that looks good as well as the welds.
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2017, 09:05:14 PM »
Welded on all 6 spring mounts to. Will wait to do the long sides when I flip it over.


Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #90 on: August 02, 2017, 09:08:14 PM »
Next I will weld the long sides of the cross members (and do the top and bottom of each when I flip it over). Need to clean the ends up the cross members and where they meet the side rail though. Will sort of be a pain in the ass since it's a 90 deg corner on each one. I'm thinking of using a grinding stone or small wire wheel on the die grinder. Any ideas or tips?

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #91 on: August 02, 2017, 09:52:58 PM »
At this point I would just make sure you are running hot and take your time laying down good beads.

Offline JR

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2017, 12:32:49 AM »
At this point I would just make sure you are running hot and take your time laying down good beads.

Ditto on that. Taking a couple sharp edges off would be good to (hangers and such). Later or now when you work on it you will be happier.
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #93 on: August 03, 2017, 07:22:35 AM »
Yes, those beads weren't the prettiest because they both had a tack midway that I welded over. The welder seems to be running hot enough, a real nice angry sizzle comin out of it, not holes in the welds and smooth and splatter free.

That's an excellent point about removing sharp edges, wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes complete sense!! Thanks for the tip!

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2017, 07:54:29 AM »
Yes, those beads weren't the prettiest because they both had a tack midway that I welded over. The welder seems to be running hot enough, a real nice angry sizzle comin out of it, not holes in the welds and smooth and splatter free.

That's an excellent point about removing sharp edges, wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes complete sense!! Thanks for the tip!

I wasn't critiquing your welds.  If you didn't prep the areas prior to placing your cross member's you are going to spend a lot of time trying to get in there to clean them up.  Instead make sure you are running the welder hot enough and taking your time with your welds to burn it all off.  It sounds like you plan to weld all the way around the cross members.  That should be more than enough weld to hold everything together.  Depending on the size of your welder and your skill with a large bead that you will probably be laying vertical it you could try laying 3 beads instead of carrying one larger one.  That would make it easier to get good penetration into your joint and burn the area clean before your puddle covers it up.

Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2017, 08:28:57 AM »
Yes, those beads weren't the prettiest because they both had a tack midway that I welded over. The welder seems to be running hot enough, a real nice angry sizzle comin out of it, not holes in the welds and smooth and splatter free.

That's an excellent point about removing sharp edges, wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes complete sense!! Thanks for the tip!

I wasn't critiquing your welds.  If you didn't prep the areas prior to placing your cross member's you are going to spend a lot of time trying to get in there to clean them up.  Instead make sure you are running the welder hot enough and taking your time with your welds to burn it all off.  It sounds like you plan to weld all the way around the cross members.  That should be more than enough weld to hold everything together.  Depending on the size of your welder and your skill with a large bead that you will probably be laying vertical it you could try laying 3 beads instead of carrying one larger one.  That would make it easier to get good penetration into your joint and burn the area clean before your puddle covers it up.

Yes, that's a very good suggestion actually. It will indeed be vertical weld, unless I flip it 90 degrees so that the side of the trailer is on the ground, which could be a possibility too I guess.

I was planning welding 3 sides, yes. I was going to weld the back of the C now, and then when it's flipped right-side-up was going to weld the bottom flange on the inside of the C and the top flange on the top of the C. I think that should be ok?

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2017, 08:30:48 AM »
Those welds look much better than the first couple which were smooth, but didn't seem to have enough added material from the wire feed.  (Ken's eyes are old and failing.....reason he loves Hillary is he originally thought she was Bo Derek)
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2017, 08:38:13 AM »
Those welds look much better than the first couple which were smooth, but didn't seem to have enough added material from the wire feed.  (Ken's eyes are old and failing.....reason he loves Hillary is he originally thought she was Bo Derek)

I did turn up wire speed ever so slightly, and it still seems quite happy, so will likely leave as it is now.

Speaking of welds, I've seen on some fully wrapped tongues, that the sections of the tongue that are parallel to the frame rail (before they bend in to make the tongue) are slightly wider than the trailer frame to give a little ledge to give more material to weld. Or at least that's what I assume it's for. Does that make sense to do that?

Online Bear9350

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2017, 08:48:13 AM »
I thought those first welds looked good. It looked like you had a decent amount of gap there to be filled.  A large fillet does not always mean more strength.  It can just simply mean you are getting no penetration and all the material is just laying on top of the surface of the material.  More like a layer of glue then actually joining the two pieces together.  Anytime you are filling that large of a gap I would recommend welding both sides of the joint if possible.

When I built mine I welded both sides of the vertical wall.  I also welded the horizontal inside edges of the channel.  Depending on how you are positioning the cross members inside the rail there will not be a lot of access to get to the very top and bottom surface.  I think mine were pushed closer to the bottom of the rail so that gave me some access to lay a bead on the top surface as well.

I offset the wrap on my tongue a 1/4" so that I could a good fillet weld on both the inside and outside instead of just a butt joint.

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Re: Car Hauler Trailer Build
« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2017, 09:15:35 AM »
Like bear said offset the tongue where it runs parallel to the frame so you can get an inside 90 weld rather than a butt joint on both sides. I have kept the width of the A frame narrower than width of trailer too & then welded it to the cross members on the front of the trail as well as the external frame. It worked fine as well, think it might have saved me several feet of material I was short on possibly. Looks good! :likebutton:
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