2002 Suburban 2500 Build Thread, Part 1

[Flyin6]

When I run into a work stoppage, like, no butt joint clamp, I just switch to another project and push that down the road some more.
Since I needed to order that clamp, I started construction of two 5.5' deep drawers that will fit in the area behind the second row.
I am on a specific build plan and a clock. I have something to use the burb for in mid may and it really has to be in the configuration I planned by that time. I'll need storage space and still room for a mattress on top of that for a pre-ranger to catch a cat nap between guard duty shifts.

This pic is of the start. The cabinet construction is progressing right along, but I'll wait till it's done to post all that up...

[JR]

Looking good. There is lots of room in those side compartment areas too. Good for stashing odd things,,,,,,,,,

Saw a burb today with the 10.5. Saw 3 last week with US plates going a little fast up 80 near Sac also. Quite a few out there!

[Flyin6]

Yea, let's talk about that 10.5 vs the 9.5

Tate????

I was looking at that thing yesterday and I am just unimpressed.

The pinion loads just like a regular carrier, mounts directly into the housing, no un-boltable pinion lump thing. Ya know, I am just not in love with that axle, although remembering my H2 full throttle, locked, going up that freaky hill...If it was going to break, it would have broken then. I think I tore a sway bar link apart on that same climb...

So why this tiny car axle vs a dana 95?? or a 17 bolt? ;-))

[EL TATE]

Anything with the 8.1L will have the 10.5 FF, and some 6.0 w/ heavy suspension config. the 9.5 is an OK unit, but the GovLoc is always suspect. Solution? stick a Detroit in there right? new problem is now you're apt to snap one of those spindly axles with all the weight on the bearing journal and have it slide right out of the housing while the pre-rangers and HH6 hand on to the O.S. handles for dear life! No, for what you want to do, and just how you are in general, you need the full float housing. If Duane's falls through, and you can't seem to find one locally, let me know, I've got a guy in PA that is kinda like Norm and just buys up scads of military surplus housings. Read lots of full float 14 bolts with 4.56 gears and lockers sittin on a pallet waitin for the day they get to play with uncle Don.

Oh, and your 9.5 in the H2 survived because it was an eaton electric locker and not a GovLoc. Much less mickey mouse little parts to fail and cause carnage.

[Flyin6]

Anything with the 8.1L will have the 10.5 FF, and some 6.0 w/ heavy suspension config. the 9.5 is an OK unit, but the GovLoc is always suspect. Solution? stick a Detroit in there right? new problem is now you're apt to snap one of those spindly axles with all the weight on the bearing journal and have it slide right out of the housing while the pre-rangers and HH6 hand on to the O.S. handles for dear life! No, for what you want to do, and just how you are in general, you need the full float housing. If Duane's falls through, and you can't seem to find one locally, let me know, I've got a guy in PA that is kinda like Norm and just buys up scads of military surplus housings. Read lots of full float 14 bolts with 4.56 gears and lockers sittin on a pallet waitin for the day they get to play with uncle Don.

Oh, and your 9.5 in the H2 survived because it was an eaton electric locker and not a GovLoc. Much less mickey mouse little parts to fail and cause carnage.

You've confirmed my suspicions, again.
I've been checking Craigslist and FB marketplace. A couple 14 bolt have come and gone, one with a 3.73, and another with an unheard of 3.07!

[Flyin6]

Got more done on the rear storage, as I evaluate what I am going to specifically task that area with and how to manage that stuff. The base turned out really strong. That drill gig thing is very effective, but ultimately the glue does the real holding.

Next up the side pieces, framing out two small storage areas which will have a lid to augment the slide out drawers

Once again, I'll post up an entire thread about how to build this once it is completed, this is just a summary as it were

[JR]

At least it will be easy to setup!

[Flyin6]

Oh, and I have an inbound on the camshaft. So, when I get the exhaust clamp, I'll finish the exhaust and start it up and do the fit and leak check thing, then shut down. I'll probably finish the rear storage cabinet, then immediately switch to porting the heads, followed by tearing the engine down to a short block.

[Flyin6]

At least it will be easy to setup!

Sure will.
So, JR, ever sleep in the back of your burb(s)?

Pre-ranger number 2 is 5'10" at the moment, so I'm thinking he can get away with bunking back there while the other pre-ranger and I occupy the rooftop tent. Sound plausible?

[JR]

Not the current square bodies, but the Dmax yes and in the front this last weekend up in Reno!

I have done memory foam on camping trips, but now I go air mattress. Plus you actually gain room as you store it when not in use.

So on your block. You pulling it to build or getting a new block? No rush/downtime if you go new or used block.

[Flyin6]

Not the current square bodies, but the Dmax yes and in the front this last weekend up in Reno!

I have done memory foam on camping trips, but now I go air mattress. Plus you actually gain room as you store it when not in use.

So on your block. You pulling it to build or getting a new block? No rush/downtime if you go new or used block.

THis engine/vehicle is so babied, well cared for, I'd be a fool not to use the current motor for a time. Naw, I'll get another LQ4 or maybe a LQ9 block to save 90 lbs and build up the new 408 for installation later on.

Right now, I want to add another 100-150 HP, (well, 100 ft/lbs really) and get ready for a possible adventure...

[EL TATE]

Anything with the 8.1L will have the 10.5 FF, and some 6.0 w/ heavy suspension config. the 9.5 is an OK unit, but the GovLoc is always suspect. Solution? stick a Detroit in there right? new problem is now you're apt to snap one of those spindly axles with all the weight on the bearing journal and have it slide right out of the housing while the pre-rangers and HH6 hand on to the O.S. handles for dear life! No, for what you want to do, and just how you are in general, you need the full float housing. If Duane's falls through, and you can't seem to find one locally, let me know, I've got a guy in PA that is kinda like Norm and just buys up scads of military surplus housings. Read lots of full float 14 bolts with 4.56 gears and lockers sittin on a pallet waitin for the day they get to play with uncle Don.

Oh, and your 9.5 in the H2 survived because it was an eaton electric locker and not a GovLoc. Much less mickey mouse little parts to fail and cause carnage.

You've confirmed my suspicions, again.
I've been checking Craigslist and FB marketplace. A couple 14 bolt have come and gone, one with a 3.73, and another with an unheard of 3.07!

The 3.07 is likely either a calculation error or a 9.5 and the seller doesn't understand the difference between full and semi float axles. 3.21 is the tallest configuration the 14t 10.5 ever offered. If you find a prospect you want me to vet, just shoot me a text on the specs and I'll do my thang for ya.

[Flyin6]

Anything with the 8.1L will have the 10.5 FF, and some 6.0 w/ heavy suspension config. the 9.5 is an OK unit, but the GovLoc is always suspect. Solution? stick a Detroit in there right? new problem is now you're apt to snap one of those spindly axles with all the weight on the bearing journal and have it slide right out of the housing while the pre-rangers and HH6 hand on to the O.S. handles for dear life! No, for what you want to do, and just how you are in general, you need the full float housing. If Duane's falls through, and you can't seem to find one locally, let me know, I've got a guy in PA that is kinda like Norm and just buys up scads of military surplus housings. Read lots of full float 14 bolts with 4.56 gears and lockers sittin on a pallet waitin for the day they get to play with uncle Don.

Oh, and your 9.5 in the H2 survived because it was an eaton electric locker and not a GovLoc. Much less mickey mouse little parts to fail and cause carnage.

You've confirmed my suspicions, again.
I've been checking Craigslist and FB marketplace. A couple 14 bolt have come and gone, one with a 3.73, and another with an unheard of 3.07!

The 3.07 is likely either a calculation error or a 9.5 and the seller doesn't understand the difference between full and semi float axles. 3.21 is the tallest configuration the 14t 10.5 ever offered. If you find a prospect you want me to vet, just shoot me a text on the specs and I'll do my thang for ya.

It is so good being backed up like this
So that post is bogus. The pic clearly shows an old style (No ribs) 14bolt FF. That means it is some other ratio.

Oh and I found a posting of a Dana 60 which was actually a semi-float 9.5 15 bolt from a hummer. Hmmm, wonder if that might not be a choice...Eaton...

So Tater, this guy in PE who squirrels away the mil's 14 bolts. Lockers and 4.56...

I am wondering what I could buy one for???

Also that opens the gear ratio discussion up. So if I am running a 4.10 with the factory tire, and go to a 33" circumference, I'll be cutting the RPM back. If I went to a 4.56, I think I'd increase RPM a tad for any given speed, but if I went to a 34" tire, maybe even a 35" I could get a better roll over trail obstacles, bet another 1/2"-1" height and get the RPM right.

Then JR has that 4.56 setup for the front...

[EL TATE]

4.56 and 35" w/ the 6.0L w/ the 4L80E trans puts you at 2134rpm at 65mph. 4.11 and 33" puts you at 2040 at the same speed. relatively speaking, they're the same.
Now that being said, 4.56 and 33" are only 2263rpm at 65mph. I don't recall your power band on the cam and heads, but the right gear could keep you in your power band longer. Play with it a bit here and you can inject different gear ratios, tire sizes, transmission gear ratios and speeds to see what suits you best. https://www.randysworldwide.com/calculators/transmission-ratio-rpm. My recommendation for what you're doing, added weight and the power demands is 4.56 regardless of 33"-35", and 4.88 for 37+ which I hope you dont do. 

[Flyin6]

Cam is 1600-6500. A lot of the torque available is in at the low 2000's range. A diesel like gaser with some revability???

[Flyin6]

Finished the carpentry part of the storage cabinet build.

Again, details later, but here is the top covered with 3/4" plywood. I tested the pre-ranger sleeping in the back, he fits well!

[JR]

Those look good, nice job. Was wondering about the slides which I see you built.

Does the bottom of the drawer sit flush? IE it doesn't break with stuff bouncing over the KIA's and mulch 

[Flyin6]

Those look good, nice job. Was wondering about the slides which I see you built.

Does the bottom of the drawer sit flush? IE it doesn't break with stuff bouncing over the KIA's and mulch 

Yes, the bottoms of the drawers are 3/8" plywood recessed into the sides and back panels. I am writing a build thread on that cabinet at the moment down in construction projects.

Here:

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=3785.msg84404#msg84404

[TexasRedNeck]

Looks good Don. I’ve been trying to find a source for composite lumber. It can be joined much like normal wood, eg kreg and ss screws. 

I’d like to make some outdoor chairs, bird feeders etc.


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[JR]

Composite lumber. Wouldn't that just be LVL's and plywood/OSB?

[TexasRedNeck]

No. It’s more like trex decking. Recycled plastic and epoxy


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[JR]

No. It’s more like trex decking. Recycled plastic and epoxy


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That sounds cool,,,,,,,,,

[Flyin6]

No. It’s more like trex decking. Recycled plastic and epoxy


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Not as completely indestructible as some would have you think

I have decks and walkways made of the stuff and I have to get after it regularly. It does not split and crack, but it does warp and cup. Fades as well. I spray it every year with a wood preservative and it does OK. Now, having said that, should I have built with wood, my decks would have been toast by now. Have built many of them and they do not last like the composite stuff. Recycled plastic and ground up wood (read: Sawdust like consistency)

[stlaser]

No. It’s more like trex decking. Recycled plastic and epoxy


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Not as completely indestructible as some would have you think

I have decks and walkways made of the stuff and I have to get after it regularly. It does not split and crack, but it does warp and cup. Fades as well. I spray it every year with a wood preservative and it does OK. Now, having said that, should I have built with wood, my decks would have been toast by now. Have built many of them and they do not last like the composite stuff. Recycled plastic and ground up wood (read: Sawdust like consistency)

Good info, my next home will have two porches constructed of this stuff. Just got rid of a large cedar deck that needed stained twice a year. 

[TexasRedNeck]

Yes the early versions were not as good as the newer stuff. The new stuff is guaranteed for life in some cases, like outdoor furniture.


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[Flyin6]

So, again, just the completion pics here and the build part of the storage cabinet over in its thread

So I have it almost complete. I need to coat the underside with some spar varnish, then mount it in the burb, but other than that, its ready to go to work for us

[JR]

 

[TexasRedNeck]

I certainly approve of the color combo

:thumb


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[stlaser]

Looks good, red sure jumps out at you.

I’ve been wondering if you couldn’t have just bought some inexpensive roller bearings and used them versus the wood slides?

[TexasRedNeck]

One positive thing about the wood slides is less opportunity for rattles as you’re driving down the road.


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[Flyin6]

I certainly approve of the color combo

:thumb


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Ah yes...Almost forgot...Of course!

[Flyin6]

Looks good, red sure jumps out at you.

I’ve been wondering if you couldn’t have just bought some inexpensive roller bearings and used them versus the wood slides?

Shawn, I wonder where they would have been??? I looked everywhere. Even the cheapo chinese ones were a couple bucks each. I'd need 14 to 16 per slide, two per drawer so I'd still need sixty some of them and still not had the aluminum for the slider, which would have put me right back at a couple/few hundred, so for that, I'd opt for the slides.

Naw, I mean for this and everything I am going to do with this build to be low cost/big return for the money spent

These drawers could be critiqued fairly easily, doesn't have screw holes far enough apart, gather moisture, no ball bearing slides and so forth. But at the end of the day, I now have the storage space I needed and a bunk for Ranger number 2.

On to the next project...

[Flyin6]

And I need to ask a question of the group, particularly Kenneth.

The truck is an 02 (Read: old grease) with 96,000 miles. Should I replace the front unit bearings in preparation for a several thousand mile upcoming trip? There are zero signs of anything being wrong with them???

I am replacing the belt tensioner and idler pulley on the front of the motor as routine maintenance and a preventative measure, and while I am digging around replacing the front brake parts, should I go further???

[KensAuto]

Not if they are quiet and tight.  Pre-04 I've seen go past 200k, depending on climate and use. I don't know what they did after that,  but pretty sure they used the same grease,  but not as much...they start sounding dry (ticking) in as few as 50k in my experience. The new timkens do the same .

[Flyin6]

Not if they are quiet and tight.  Pre-04 I've seen go past 200k, depending on climate and use. I don't know what they did after that,  but pretty sure they used the same grease,  but not as much...they start sounding dry (ticking) in as few as 50k in my experience. The new timkens do the same .

OK, hmmm, didn't expect to hear that
So, just keep the stockers. Ken, you sure are saving me money!

[Flyin6]

OK, so engine work about to commence. Cam is due in tomorrow or next day. So looking at bumpers, I may not have the time to build the front and rear, may have to buy the front, bolt in a winch and call it done. The rear I will have to build to get it to do everything I need it to do

For my front bumper purchase if it comes to that, my first choice will be the ARB Bull bar and the second will be the Trail Ready with all the added grill guard stuff as pictured on the 99 Suburban...

[JR]

So how do they fit and what locks/latches?

I like the trialready a little more. ARB you are paying for the name. Price diff?

I agree on the hubs too, if tight, why bother.

[TexasRedNeck]

Carry a spare hub.  Not that hard to change just make sure you have the socket. What 34mm?


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[JR]

I do carry one, get them on ebay for $50, new. I also carry upper ball joints.

The real hard ones are the brake brackets (long arse breaker bar!)and hub bolts (6pt 15mm?). I can do in an hour at home.

[Flyin6]

Carry a spare hub.  Not that hard to change just make sure you have the socket. What 34mm?


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Good idea, and yea, either a 34mm or a 35mm, and I have a couple...

[Flyin6]

So how do they fit and what locks/latches?

I like the trialready a little more. ARB you are paying for the name. Price diff?

I agree on the hubs too, if tight, why bother.

Haven't fashioned a retention system. Going to be simple, magnets, velcro, latch???
It sits a couple inches from the rear hatch so it isn't moving much and even after brushing on melted wax today, and burning that into the wood, they do not slide freely, but require a little tug to get started. They may loosen up in time, but right now, about what I wanted.

ARB bumper is maybe $200 less, although I haven't contacted anyone and negotiated yet.

[JR]

Doesn't Bear make custom bumpers?

[Nate]

Doesn't Bear make custom bumpers?

that would be my vote, if bear still has all his stuff?!  if your going to give your money to a company to build you something, why not give it to a real man member?

[Bear9350]

I'm pretty sure I could get do a front and rear bumper.  I did an 02 2500 (non HD) truck last winter and I assume it would be the same as that?  I can do a lot of customization but here are a few similar examples of what I have done in the past.

03 style truck, but a full brush guard would be similar to this one



02 2500HD Bumper, the 2500 non HD would be kind of similar to this



Rear Bumper, this one has a built in receiver that would replace the factory receiver but I can build it to work with factory also

[Flyin6]

Hmmm, Interesting...

[JR]

And you can customize it like a real man!

[stlaser]

I like those options!  bear for the win....

[Bear9350]

A little breakdown of how I do things/ my process.

I do this as an out my garage side business that I run.  I do this to support some of my more expensive hobbies, (use to be trucks, now mostly guns) but mostly because I enjoy working with my hands and creating/ building them.  Because everything is in CAD, and I build these one at a time per order I can do a lot of customization rather easily without a bunch of extra charges.  I can cut holes, add lights etc... pretty easily.  Some requests might take me a little longer to figure out how to make it work but I can usually figure out a way to make it happen or make suggestions on what I can do that might work for you.  I actually enjoy doing what I can to customize the bumper and give my customers as close to what they want as I can build.  I do the majority of the work but do outsource a couple steps.

I do all the computer/ CAD work in my home office on my desktop.  After customizing a bumper I send a flat file to a local shop that laser cuts all my steel parts.  It usually takes about a week for me to see steel parts after I send them the file to cut.  With the parts being built in CAD and laser cut I get a perfect line-on-line fit between all the parts.  Some parts are notched/ slotted to fit together and form the frame and center portion of the bumper.
After getting the cut steel back I do a little cleanup work and then tack/ weld the bumper together.  Then a couple hours of grinding to clean up and blend all the corners together.
After the base bumper is built I will add any extra brush guards etc..  Again I use another local shop to cnc bend all the tubing and then cope/ mill the ends to the appropriate length and shape so that everything fits together nearly perfectly.  The base bumper plates would have been cut initially with holes in the plates to accept any guarding.  The tube from the guards will pass through the bumper plates so that it can be welded on both the exterior and interior of the bumper.

In the past I have supplied everything to my customers from a finished, painted, installed bumper to just emailing them the flat file and a set of instructions for assembly.

A couple things to note about my bumpers compared to other manufacturers:

My bumpers don't protrude out in front of the truck nearly as much in front of the bumper as many other brands.  When I started out I wanted to built a bumper that would look appropriate on a stock to leveled truck without need a 6"+ lift and 35s to make a huge bumper look like it fits.  A result of the sleeker bumper is that winch access can be more difficult.  The biggest issue is getting access to the lever to put the winch in free spool/ re-engage it.  For most of my customers this is not a concern.  For others I have some work round's depending on model.

Nearly everything is built from 7 ga steel (about 3/16").  In my calculations, experience and customer feedback this is thick more than thick enough to protect from the animal collisions most people are purchasing these bumpers for.  In larger collisions with other vehicles or other immovable objects the bumper plates may deform but ultimately will protect the vehicle allowing it to drive away from the accident.  I have pictures of one of my front and rear bumpers installed on a truck from a couple of years ago.  He rear-ended somebody on the freeway and then himself was rear ended.  There was a small amount of damage to the plates of the bumper but no other damage was done to any exterior panels or internals.   He was the only one of 4 people in the accident to drive away.  If you think you need thicker or just want the added weight I can upsize the entire bumper to 1/4".

Most of my bumpers are sold raw steel.  I can paint, but don't really enjoy doing it, which is why I don't generally do it.  If I paint it, I don't give you any guarantee.  I don't charge much more than what the materials cost and a little bit for my prep time, not nearly enough to give any type of warranty on it.  If I'm shipping it I'm not painting it.  By the time I spend the money on materials and my time to prep, paint, package it up carefully and spend the extra on shipping insurance and then dealing with the hassle should it get damaged in shipping it is just cheaper for you to have somebody local paint it.

[JR]

I like that! Have you done any square bodies? EI, mid 80's like my burb?

[stlaser]

I'm fairly impressed, bear took a butt ugly front end on that 2003 and made it look great! That alone would sell me on his designs! Bravo