Hello Guest

Author Topic: SquareD Part 5: The build continues and gets more aggressive  (Read 267462 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2014, 08:29:46 AM »
Yea, I might have gotten ahead of meself on the painting thing, but what the heck, it's done now, so I say: Press on!

Halloween in the tucky: It snowed!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline WVRigRat08

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Happy Happy Happy
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2014, 09:24:54 PM »
Different than dmax forum, lol, trucks liking good don, love the sight.
05 Chevy LLY ccsb LT Bulit motor, trans, tuned by Blackout Performance-gone

08 GMC Sierra SLT- Basic Reger-proof and hauling mods

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2014, 09:33:58 PM »
Different than dmax forum, lol, trucks liking good don, love the sight.
Good to see ya over here!
Yup, this is the next step in the progression of what we started over at D-Max Forums. I hope this site has more "Substance"
We're just getting started really, small now, but my money sez we're goin' to the stars!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #103 on: November 03, 2014, 09:14:30 PM »
Well, between spending some time at the gym, some time with my boys, a lunch, and having a washer delivered, then having to prep tonight to go feed the homeless, I had scarely a couple hours remaining to work out SquareD's issues.'

But work on it I did. I finished rebuilding the overdrive section minus inserting a couple more clutch discs and steels.

The first thing I did was to compress that huge spring once again and install the snap rings which hold it all together. THe factory 8 clutches and 7 steels were replaced with 10 clutches and 9 steels for a significant upgrade in holding power in overdrive. Plus the clutches and steels were of a much higher quality than factory stuff
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #104 on: November 03, 2014, 09:16:38 PM »
Next up, I rebuilt the governor unit. These iron rings, very similar to piston rings have this strange inter-connect arrangement that gave me some fits until I figured out how to assemble it. But like all things it yielded and the gov unit was renewed
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2014, 09:17:48 PM »
I replaced this tiny filter inside the governor unit before locktiting the bolts into place
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #106 on: November 03, 2014, 09:19:23 PM »
Then the bearing, snap ring, parking lever assembly, and governor supply tube assemble all went in followed by the rebuilt geartrain assembly
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #107 on: November 03, 2014, 09:20:40 PM »
I would have gotten the overdrive direct clutches installed, but time ran out, so I just heaped them in there and covered everything up till tomorrow
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline jms89

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #108 on: November 04, 2014, 11:49:54 AM »
You sir, are brave! I have always been deeply intimidated by transmissions and their inner-workings. Looks like you have a good handle on the build though! I am impressed.

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #109 on: November 04, 2014, 12:40:11 PM »
You sir, are brave! I have always been deeply intimidated by transmissions and their inner-workings. Looks like you have a good handle on the build though! I am impressed.
-Not brave

Just not very bright!

I lean to the side of foolishness and that's where all this adventure comes from

Through the grace of God himself, most of these antics actually work out!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online cudakidd53

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 2444
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #110 on: November 04, 2014, 04:11:59 PM »
That falls under the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut, now and then" category of devine intervention there Don!  Don't kid yourself, you've got skills-

Speaking of Squirrels, wasn't there some "Secret Squirrel" guy over on DMax?
2012 Silverado LTZ - Duramax
Christian since 1975 - Field Trial Brittanys - NRA Lifetime Member

"When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. Hence, dealing with this fact is not difficult. It is only hard for those still living around you.....It's the same when you're stupid."

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #111 on: November 04, 2014, 07:44:13 PM »
Today, I poured over the transmission again, but the going is very slow.

First having finished the OD unit, It has become a bit of a mystery to me about how to check piston end-play. It needs to be .095"-.115" no more and no less. There is some special tool designed for the task. But the trans guy at RevMax says to just build up that end and select a drill bit or around .100" in diameter give or take and shim the thrust washer until I get the clearance...

But I can't figure out where to actually measure!!!!!!!!

So I bagged the OD unit (Literally) and went off to reassembling the main case.
Well after getting a few things rebuilt and assembled I discovered just how sharp a machined edge can be. Had to pull out the masking tape again.

So I backed off that some and started assembling the new Sonnex apply pistons which are doubled sealed and a headache to assemble. Finally at around 1900 I said to heck with it and gave up for the evening.

I'll get back on it tomorrow with a fresh attitude.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online JR

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 5560
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #112 on: November 04, 2014, 11:28:02 PM »
Great work Don, again what book is that you got.

When doing some tranny work on my Dmax I used some foil cooking tubs from the dollar store for drain pans, soaking clutch packs and such. Nice and then you throw them away.
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

Thomas Jefferson

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #113 on: November 05, 2014, 12:55:03 PM »
Great work Don, again what book is that you got.

When doing some tranny work on my Dmax I used some foil cooking tubs from the dollar store for drain pans, soaking clutch packs and such. Nice and then you throw them away.
The book is the FSM right from Dodge for the 1991 W250 series trucks with the diesel supplement.
Absolutely necessary for this trans stuff!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2014, 06:34:00 PM »
OK, I need a shower...
My clothes smell like transmission fluid
My camera is shinier than it used to be
Certain letters on the keyboard are a bit brighter as well...

So we are ah' talkin transmissions once again...and at the rate I am completing this build, will continue to be until the new year!

I wanted to get the case drilled to supply more oil to something on the other side...not that I am an expert, or even know what in the heck I am talking about, but several transmission smart guys say I should do it

It's a small hole, only .040" and it goes in a strange place. Here's pics I downloaded to use as reference:
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #115 on: November 05, 2014, 06:36:40 PM »
Can't see it, you say? Well neither could I so I just drilled holes all over the thing...thought it wouldn't hurt. After all the Marines install holes in Taliban and it seems to help them (Both the Taliban and the Marines!)

That drill bit is a #59 if anyone ever reads this and cares!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #116 on: November 05, 2014, 06:37:58 PM »
OK, got that done: Check!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #117 on: November 05, 2014, 06:42:17 PM »
Back to the O/D unit. The factory unit uses 8 clutches on the inside direct drive unit, RevMax supplied me 10. They monkey with the thicknesses of both the clutches and the steels. That was a 20% increase in clamping force with surface area alone. Now factor in the fact that this transmission will be running higher pressures and it should hold quite a bit more torque than the wimpy factory unit.

The OD large clutch called for 6 clutches. RevMax supplied me 8 care of this specially machined reaction plate and machined steels of a berry, berry special steel.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #118 on: November 05, 2014, 06:46:14 PM »
That clutch pack really filled up that case!

But I am currently having troubles figuring out how to measure the clearance. I need a special tool to get that done, however, one can simply assemble the piston and thrust washer and bearing and measure. I need from .095"-.115" clearance. Frank at RevMax tells me to find a drill of around that size and stick it in there to measure with, then shim it as required. Well, I found a drill that measures .105", which is perfect, but I don't know what to do with it!

I'm like a pig lookin' at a wrist watch!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #119 on: November 05, 2014, 06:49:12 PM »
Not to be discouraged, I pressed on with installing the sprag clutch , then this band apply piston from Sonnex. This one has double seals in lieu of the factory leaky single seals. They use one rubber, and one Teflon seal to cut down on leaks, keep the pressure up, and therefore provide more lubrication to the other internal parts
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #120 on: November 05, 2014, 06:50:48 PM »
I slid in the new sonnax accumulator as well. It's looks cool!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #121 on: November 05, 2014, 06:52:19 PM »
Things were going right along when I noticed there wasn't a cool looking billet piston for the other hole in that transmission...Hugh???
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #122 on: November 05, 2014, 06:59:02 PM »
So I sez to myself, ya know, self...I think there might be a piece/part ah' missin'!

So I's goooos to lookin, spyeye'n the packing list and setting my gaze upon the stuff that has not yet been carried off by the dog.

First I's get to starin' at the big band. That's purdy, I sez, but isn't thar ah supposed to bee ah two of dem here? I sez...
Then I notice there isn't one. SO I start with hate filled killin thoughts as I cast my gaze upon the red dog. SHe senses death at the door step and goes away. So I go out in the drizzle to her favorite chewin' spots. Yep, found it...There is my wire brush, new screwdriver and a freshly emptied can of what was some tasty coffee beans I'll bet. But no band, not even a rusty bolt or part of the world trade center towers, nothing.

So I's gets to lookin at the packin' list and she isn't there. Nossir, wasn't packed, wasn't sold, just wasn't!. Neither was my new sprag clutches not the billet thing that goes into that big hole in the bottom of the transmission case.!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2014, 07:01:13 PM »
After finding my warm quiet place and staying there for a time, the hate filled killin thoughts gave way to the desire to do more rebuilding stuff.
I guess I'll call Frank in the morning and get the brown truck guys some more work!

Meantime I decided to rebuild the nasty looking pump
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #124 on: November 05, 2014, 07:02:15 PM »
So I marked the two parts and removed the bolts, exposing the pump
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2014, 07:04:14 PM »
I cleaned everything as best as I could finishing with brake cleaner, then I painted the case part that faces the outside. I wire brushed away the rust, then cleaned it, then coated it with acid etching primer, then top coated with J. Deere semi flat black
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2014, 07:06:46 PM »
Next the perforated bushing in the inside was removed and using a bushing and seal driver, I tapped a new one into the bore

The bushing is staked into place in the two recesses machined into the housing
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2014, 07:07:51 PM »
Then the cleaned and freshly lubed gears were reinstalled
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2014, 07:09:05 PM »
The hub and reaction shaft had two iron seal rings which I removed, and replaced with brandly new parts...how special...!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2014, 07:12:07 PM »
Some medium lock-tite was applied to the threads, and the two sections were reunited.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2014, 07:14:06 PM »
Forgot to mention, I also added a new front seal and a new rubber O-Ring to the body, which completed that unit. It is now ready to reinstall.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #131 on: November 05, 2014, 07:16:19 PM »
I did some work on the engine as well, adding 8 hose clamps, and securing the hard water lines and adding a block vent hose, but aside from that, I'll call it a successful build day 183
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline Dawg25385

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2019
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #132 on: November 06, 2014, 12:08:53 AM »
Nice work!

Have to say, love seeing the yellow and black mallet making cameo appearances in photos along the way. If I'm not mistaken, that's been a mainstay in every build so far...
2006 Chevrolet 2500 HD 6.6
Prov 27:17, 2 Tim 1:7
NRA Life Member

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #133 on: November 06, 2014, 10:31:13 AM »
Funny!

Yup that mallet has had it's yellow head destroyed for some time now and the black, softer side suffered serious damage getting two parts of that transmission separated.

Yup, I'd agree, that hammer is critical to the build so far!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #134 on: November 06, 2014, 07:21:01 PM »
Well, the one thing I can say positively about today, was that it is finally over!

Yup not a good build day at all.

I started out with calling RevMax trying to sort out what might be wrong with the clearance in the assembled OD unit. We finally gave up with all parties scratching their heads.

All the parts I thought I needed, I didn't, as they never wear out which explains why I was finding everything in such good condition.

So I had started with another project since I had envisioned having to wait a week for the parts showing up. The other project was to fit up the new upper shock mount and get the shocks reinstalled, then come back at the transmission.

But after fooling with the shock mounts I could plainly see there is no way to get them to fit on this truck. So, I'll have to revisit the shock mount thing tomorrow.

I did get the cross over steering arm cut and welded, except that when I marked it correctly with tape, when I cut it, I cut the wrong end of the tape, making the bar 3/4" too short. Yea... So when I assembled the tie rod ends after the welding, it was all too short. So I had to screw the tie rods out more than I had planned and yes, the bar will work, as the tie rods are still fully engaged in their threads, thanks to having really long threaded bodies, but I like to tuck all those threads inside for safe keeping!

So then I went back at the transmission and tore down the forward clutch. After assembling that I came up with like .150 clearance! The factory calls for .080-.115" but RevMax calls for .025"-.035". So I am a country mile away from anything that looks correct, and worse, I know of no way to correct that.

S let's get started on today's diasters
First up is the destruction of one perfectly good steering cross bar.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #135 on: November 06, 2014, 07:21:51 PM »
Yes, the supplied DOM is too long

so I marked it correctly for the cut
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2014, 07:23:05 PM »
...and then I cut it in the wrong place!

The bar itself is waaay stronger than the factory stuff. Look at the diameter and wall thickness:
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #137 on: November 06, 2014, 07:25:13 PM »
The bar fits

And it moved the tie rod bar well forward and away from Shawn's cover, but I don't like having those threads exposed like that
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #138 on: November 06, 2014, 07:27:29 PM »
And here is the trick shock mount I was going to weld up. It is just too big, and too tall and gets in the way of the steering and the brake lines, so I am going to have to do something much simpler.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #139 on: November 06, 2014, 07:33:52 PM »
Not knowing the mounts wouldn't fit, I built up my set up shocks. I use shocks off one of my old stock vehicles, then drill them or cut the bodies to release all the fluid, then clamp off the piston rod to the correct length. I want 4.5" of droop and the rest will be long travel type extension.

This one is hard to guess, because without the motor sitting in there, I don't know how far those springs will settle down. The beauty of the custom mount you see is extreme adjustability. One simply welds the small "L" shaped parts to the frame, then the upper piece bolts on in any of a dozen locations allowing you to run longer shocks or shorter ones...your call. Simply unbolt and bolt back up where you want them to be.

Note that the factory Chevy Silverado shock has a larger piston rod than the nitro skyjackers!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #140 on: November 06, 2014, 07:35:13 PM »
OK with a big fail staring me in the fact there, back to the transmission.

I decided to rebuild the forward clutch today and maybe something else as well.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #141 on: November 06, 2014, 07:36:22 PM »
So going back into  the press, I separated the parts and tore it down.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #142 on: November 06, 2014, 07:37:55 PM »
After cleaning it was ready for reassembly.

First up was the new billet piston. It's prudy isn't it!
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #143 on: November 06, 2014, 07:39:03 PM »
Then soaked everything in fresh ATF
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #144 on: November 06, 2014, 07:50:06 PM »
Then as I assembled everything, first of all the RevMax instruction sheet that states the clutch could, called for 4 steels and 4 clutches, starting with a clutch first!

Well, that is really perplexing to me. You see if I added a clutch first, it would be riding directly on that aluminum piston. Now am I crazy or does that seem wrong. Shouldn't a clutch ride on a steel? And not soft aluminum?

So I was questioning that when I noticed I got shorted one steel!!!!!!!!!! Da#$!)#! it! Talk about helpless. I had 4 clutches and 3 steels...clearly one short. So I selected the best one out of the old parts and continued, although disappointed.
Then when I slid the snap ring in to finish it off, I checked the clearances and they were no where near right. They were clearly maybe .050-.070 too much! Now how could that be?

And that's the second mystery. First the OD section did not come out anywhere near spec. It's over a tenth of an inch too tight. That will cause a failure of that unit fairly quickly. And now the forward clutch pack is a no-go.

I am beginning to think I tackled a task too big for my novice transmission abilities.
I would caution anyone attempting this that it is not easy. It is not quick, it is not just going to fly back together. There is a ton of work to get done inside that case, and you can another 50% to what I am doing if you plan to replace the bushings.

I don't know. I have no confidence right now that I can get this thing right...I just don't know how, and the guys at RevMax haven't been able to help over the phone, although I suspect they would have solved all of this ricky-tick it the trans were sitting there.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Online JR

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 5560
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #145 on: November 06, 2014, 09:10:37 PM »
Shouldn't it be 5 steels and 4 clutches or does the piston do the work of one steel?

I don't doubt your ability to stumble though this right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is there a way to raise that tie rod above the spring pack? Some KIA may bent it right back into the cover,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

Thomas Jefferson

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #146 on: November 07, 2014, 07:33:30 AM »
The front clutch has a piston, 4 steels, 4 clutches. and a pressure plate. I think the correct stackup should be piston pushing on a steel, then clutch, steel 2, clutch 2, steel 3, clutch 3, steel 4, clutch 4, pressure plate. That would be most like the stock setup and wouldn't have that sandpaper clutch disc sanding down the piston.

As for the steering, I elected to go with normal position steering vs high steer. Those top arms tend to break out of the housing or loosen studs and so forth. The DOM is so strong it will actually protect the housing.

I had a discussion with some folks when I built it this way, Shawn, weren't you in the middle of all that? Back then, a year ago, the consensus was go with stock style steering.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline KensAuto

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 3953
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #147 on: November 07, 2014, 09:51:54 AM »
And this is why I don't build trannys. To many things for my little brain to absorb. I got bored somewhere in the nineties and decided to build after the local trans shops repeatedly let me down (I used to pull them, send out as sublet, and reinstall). If it wasn't right, I had to eat the labor on R&R, and deal with upset customers. Can't be that hard to do, I tell myself....so...
I built 4 trannys that year, an old 350 out of my trans am, 2 gm 4l60e's, and a ford e4od. The 2 electric chevys came back multiple times for a net loss of 10,000,000.00, but the 2 others are still going to this day (altho I haven't driven the t/a in a few years.
...no thanks, not for me.
That being said, I have the utmost confidence in you big guy!!

Offline ceelibs

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #148 on: November 07, 2014, 10:48:06 AM »
My service lit is showing the front clutch stackup as follows
steel/dis/steel/disc/steel/disc/reaction plate. clutch stackups can vary according to the unit but it looks like either way a steel goes against the pressure plate. are you running one of the thinner pressure plates designed to allow for more frictions/steels in the assembly?

page 577 shows the clearance for the OD unit, you dont need the special tool, just a known flat bar of a given thickness. the special tool is .5 in thick so use the specs provided but substitute whatever thickness your "special tool" is. IIRC I used the shank of a prybar (it was the only thing I had that would span across the case). It is a tricky measurment I`ll admit.

One more thing, I dont see an alignment shaft in the OD assembly as it was going back together in the press, you will need to have the splines in there all aligned in order to get the OD unit back onto the output shaft, and that giant honkin spring needs to be compressed in order for those splines to be free to align them. I used my old intermediate shaft and cut it down in length a bit to fit in the press (I put in a new int shaft due to the 5 pinion front planetary having diff splines than the alum 4 pinion deal requiring the new int shaft).

Online Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 17935
    • View Profile
Re: SquareD Part 7: The build continues and gets more aggressive
« Reply #149 on: November 07, 2014, 01:43:31 PM »
My service lit is showing the front clutch stackup as follows
steel/dis/steel/disc/steel/disc/reaction plate. clutch stackups can vary according to the unit but it looks like either way a steel goes against the pressure plate. are you running one of the thinner pressure plates designed to allow for more frictions/steels in the assembly?

page 577 shows the clearance for the OD unit, you dont need the special tool, just a known flat bar of a given thickness. the special tool is .5 in thick so use the specs provided but substitute whatever thickness your "special tool" is. IIRC I used the shank of a prybar (it was the only thing I had that would span across the case). It is a tricky measurment I`ll admit.

One more thing, I dont see an alignment shaft in the OD assembly as it was going back together in the press, you will need to have the splines in there all aligned in order to get the OD unit back onto the output shaft, and that giant honkin spring needs to be compressed in order for those splines to be free to align them. I used my old intermediate shaft and cut it down in length a bit to fit in the press (I put in a new int shaft due to the 5 pinion front planetary having diff splines than the alum 4 pinion deal requiring the new int shaft).
Trouble is, we are mixing apples and oranges with using the FSM, ATSG, or similar when dealing with aftermarket parts. FSM says a steel goes against the piston. Makes sense as the steel isn't turning and a clutch is. So putting a clutch against the piston would cause it to wear the piston face very quickly. I can't believe the RevMax directions at this point, it just doesn't make any sense.

I aligned the direct drive clutches with the old shaft. They are all fitting pretty. And that is one big honkin spring...scary thing!

Good idea on the OD section measurement. I'll get a chunk of steel, then do the measurement, then add or subtract from .500" depending on how thick the steel is.

But there are some real problems here. The clearance is way too much with that new billet piston in there in the forward clutch. I mean, so far almost none of the clearances have come out. I really had no idea it would get this complicated and with really no real way of fixing it easily. With the problem in the forward clutch, I'm going to have to actually change thicknesses of the steels.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder