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Author Topic: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]  (Read 37138 times)

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Online KensAuto

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Note: As with Part 1 and Part 2, all posts from KensAuto, here forward, are from Flyin6 unless noted and highlighted.
Ken

Look what showed up in the mail!



Yepper, that's 57 gallons of diesel fuel fun!
The last pic says it all
First it is the correct tank
and most importantly, Made in the good ole semi-commie U-S, of A!
No cheapo chinaman or nippan crap in that beauty!




« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 09:54:03 AM by KensAuto »

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 10:46:27 PM »
OK, lets get busy with another project. Actually two projects intertwined. I'll be installing a Titan 57 gallon fuel tank and relocating the AD165 fuel lift pump.
I started with draining the fuel tank. I ran it to below empty so I didn't think there was much diesel left. Wrong! I drained nearly 5 gallons, and managed to save enough inside to pour all over my head, chest, well everything sometime later

Here's the start, blast shield off and things comin' on out. I noted about 20" ground clearance with the near factory setup with the Alligator Diesel sump.




I drained the water separator filter to see how much water was caught up in there after 15,000 miles
I couldn't find a single drop!


Here's the AD-165 fuel pump/filter assembly where I mounted it some time ago. The new fuel tank will soon occupy that space so that is the other part of this project, moving the assembly.
I will place it on the outside of the frame rail about where it currently is. I shouldn't have to extend any lines except possibly the fuel return






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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2014, 10:49:14 PM »
The Air Dog came out easily
After removing it, I pulled off the shield, then cleaned it thourghly




I'll be using the Cat primary fuel filter and a Balwin water seperator with drain when it all goes back together.



Next the factory fuel tank came out for the very first time.
It was not difficult, except to pick out the two retaining clips on the tank return line.






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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2014, 10:52:01 PM »
The Titan fuel tank is a lot bigger!






This is what is inside the factory fuel tank. Mine, of course had the Alligator sump which appears to be in excellent condition.






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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 10:54:15 PM »
Using a 2.75" hole saw, I drilled in the hole for the new sump. Titan provides a nice sump exactly for that purpose.




Oh forgot to mention that Titan fuel tank is a full .260" thick! Not bad!

Then I drilled all the mounting holes and screwed the alignment studs into the inside the tank mounting flanges.



 like using axle grease to hold things in place, so I packed some into the slots for the two "O" rings and worked them into the recesses in the sump housing.


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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 10:56:29 PM »
Then carefully installed all that onto the new Titan fuel cell.



I also applied a fresh coat of paint to the filter guards. Then I discovered the Cat filter is larger in diameter requiring me to saw a slit onto it's cover so it will slip over again.


A motorcycle jack is perfect to lower and raise the tank into position



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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 10:58:59 PM »
Looks sort of lonely under there doesn't it?

All that fluid on the ground, well before I had to wash everything out, is not diesel!
Yea...
After removing the Air Dog, I went about cutting my earlier fabbed mount off the frame. While cutting through, fluid started running all over all at once. Water?? Diesel??
No, neither? And it sure smelled a lot like brake fluid...
Somehow I managed to saw into the main brake line running aft which was well out of the way on top of the frame! I still don't know how I got into that, but I ripped right into it and ruined it. I'll have to cut out a section and splice in another section to repair it tomorrow.



I also picked up a cheapo 5 gallon pail of OptiLube. I figured I needed a bunch since I now have the tractor and Big Red sucking diesel as well, and that ULSD will foul those engine fuel injection pumps as well. THe Case has a Bosch inline P7100 and the J Deere 4720 is a common rail 4 cyl.


I also threw the Dewalt together in anticipation of starting the tac-topper project again. That means. of course, it will serve as the "DeWalt welding table for some time until I actually start to employ it with cutting something!



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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 11:00:06 PM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armalite
"Don, one thing I've been wondering, and apparently its not an issue, is the off set added weight. Anyone calculated how much more extra weight will now be on that side of the truck, and I'm assuming it wont affect anything to drastically, while climbing over the top of off center kias? Just a thought, but you will probably be countering that added weight of fuel/tank by adding products to the other side opposite the tank, hence the clearing of the path on the exhaust pipe...
Just thinking out loud here, and should already know the answer." ...


I did think about it some
The Titan tank carries 21 extra gallons
a gallon weighs 6.8 pounds 21 X 6.8 = 142.8 lbs
The extra area of the tank probably adds in what feels like an additional 20 pounds. So we're looking at an additional 163 odd pounds, which isn't a big number.
You can already adjust for lateral weight bias through adjusting the torsion bar screws. I specificially set up my rear air springs to adjust independently.

Adjustment plan: After filling and measuring I think I'll see what (If any) difference in side to side height I have. Then measure the exact air pressure side to side. Then fill the low side bag until I'm level (side to side) again. say that is an additional 4 pounds of air. I'll take half of that and run the bag at that pressure. I'll also give the left torsion bar screw about a quarter to half a turn and leave it.
That should dial it in to be a decent base setting until I start adding the topper and loading it up as well...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 11:00:55 PM by KensAuto »

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 11:04:49 PM »
OK, another day, well about half of it, working on the titan fuel tank.
If I hadn't cut through that brake line, I would have finished by tonight, but that single mistake is really costing me.
I fussed around with this and that for a couple hours, then around noon went off to the auto parts store to pick up some 1/4" brake lines and fittings to make a repair. I picked up some DOT 3/4 fluid, had lunch then returned to the task at hand.
First I had to remove the coating on the factory brake line to even be able to slide on the male flare fitting.
Next I double flared the ends, screwed that into female union fitting and connected that to the replacement section.
That's where the fun started. After getting it tight, and never expecting a leak, I filled the MC, then while bleeding the rear brake, noticed the leak on one of the flares.
Well, I drained the fluid capturing about half of it to reuse, then cut off the defective end and did it all again. Filled the MC again and went to bleeding the right rear bleeder, the brake that line services. Well WHile getting a lot of air out, I wnet too far, and my son pumped the MC empty.
That little mistake caused me to have to pull both lines off the side of the MC and re-prime the piston(s). So I did that losing another quart of fluid and making a pretty big mess. While bleeding the brakes again, I noticed the leak reappeared at the same fitting! Damm!!!
So I corrected and tightened that, but not after losing most of the fluid again. At the present time I have a spongy pedal, but at least it does not go to the floor, and I am leak free! All of that cost me most of the day and made a mess too large to even think of remounting that fuel tank.
So I then decided to concentrate on getting the pump remounted, which I did. Here's the start of that process:




Actually, here's the brake line repair which is not seated and stowed in these photos. It all gets a lot neater...








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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 11:09:12 PM »
The fuel pump will now reside outside of the frame rail about a foot aft of where it mounted before. I fabbed up a top and bottom frame bracket. The one shown sets on the top of the frame and has two studs to capture the top filter mount. It wraps around the top of the frame, then will weld to the inside of the frame and is constructed of 3/16" steel.





Here is the part that holds the fuel pump, upper mount. THis part got welded to the frame capture bracket.





Here's the spot, and the upper mount welded in place with the filter hanging for bottom bracket alignment fitting







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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 11:12:00 PM »
I welded in the lower mount, but forgot to get pics. It needed final grinding before it is presentable.
Anyway I screwed on the old filters once again to seal it all up against the grinding dust. Here's how it sits with the steps stowed in the travel position:





And with the steps down:



Here you can see the difference between the AD and the CAT filters and the phenolic tabs which made the CAT filter unhappy:





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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 11:13:03 PM »
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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 11:16:01 PM »
The Titan fuel tank project is now complete along with the Air Dog relocation.

And

Surprisingly

Thanks to Nick, and Willie, and Holton

It all works!

So's eyes started with the modification of the Air dog pump, removing the two plastic blocks and grinding of the bracket as Willie advised. I shortened the bolts and ground away the inside corners of the pump bracket for clearance on the larger diameter CAT 2 micron filter.




Again, the focus of my now failing camera is set to make things clearer for me, which is blurry for the rest of the world...In fact I'm having trouble hitting the right "F" key, since when I look down between the space between my two hands, I see two "F" keys in stead of the one I am accustomes to seeing! I have learned if I aim at the right "F" key it usually works out for me!

Here's what the filter mount looks like after grinding, cleaning, and painting:

Note: I ground away all of the bracket where something used to mount in front of the tank. Titan says to leave some of it to support the fuel lines, but Big Don says to hay with all that nonsense, get dem sharp hole in tank grindin' edges outta' there!





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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 11:16:12 PM »
If you're wondering if the emergency brake cable catches on the Air Dog mount, well, it does. In fact I rigged a neat little toggle switch that fits into the cup of that cable so that when I set the brake, the cable snags the switch throwing it off. That switch controls the fuel pump circut, so the pump is automatically off when the vehicle is parked over night!















Anyone buy all that?
Whoever did, you just validated the low quality and standards of our failing education system!

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 11:17:52 PM »
Then the Air Dog was perminized at it's new address! Pretty colored filters were added, and blue lines were plugged into various holes.
Lines were not secured at this point...






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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2014, 11:20:05 PM »
I almost left the one line hanging in the loop there, sort of like the tailhook of a B52.
Oh, a B52 doesn't have a tailhook?
Well it should!
Problem with that was the tank was going to get into my nifty emergency stopping device, so I abandoned that idea and pressed on.

I zip tied everything together, even things that didn't need it to include my newest dog which was coming in doing vicious attacks on me. You see when I'd be in some akward position on my back with one hand balancing something and the other hand working a tool, that little devil would run if and start viciously licking my face. I'd yell, squirm and eventually drop the nut or wrench I was holding, and lash out at the dog that was by then about 1inch outside my swing...she's smart like that.

Well, not to be out done with an animal with a brain the size of my thumb, I made a loop out of a long zip tie and assumed the position. I watched her take up station keeping just beyond the old fuel tank, nest to the Dewalt welding table and chop saw. I started to utter my favorite blessings and grunt and just like clockwork she attacked>

HA! The game was afoot! I snatched her up much to her surprised and wipped that zip tie around that shout of hers and gave it a yank! Lassoed, garage project style she was and struggling like a prize marlin after 20 minutes of fight! While she was pawing and struggling with the thing on her shout I grabbed my handy air ratchet, stragetically placed it behind her and pulled the trigger. Yup, scared the living stuff) out of her. She departed straight out toward the light at about mach 2, peeing the whole way.

Mission accomplished, except that I had to hunt her for awhile to get that zip tie off. WOuldn't ya know it, she found refuge under the holly bush where I scratched my hands all up wrestling her through all thise briar like sticker things.

Not sure who won the day, but I'll call it a draw and I didn't get harassed anymore!

OK, I forgot about the build thread thing...




Next the tank itself was prepped and again, I zip tied the lines together and gave them a couple wraps of electrical tape to hold it all in place for assembly







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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2014, 11:21:42 PM »
That tank then witnessed it's last couple minutes of daylight as it was slid under the vehicle to begin the connections.

That process is relatively easy although awkward and hard to get into position to hook up the vent, filler, and sending unit

But as with all things, it yielded and with the help of my handy motorcycle jack, also slid home

THe Titan straps seem adequate, although I would perfer something a little more robust. I placed the rubber isolator straps between the steel straps and the tank and secured it in place.

I found that by sourcing slightly longer M-whatever metric bolts the process is easier.





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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2014, 11:24:46 PM »
Last on the to-do list was to make the sump connection.
You may recall I had angled the sump fitting on a 45 degree angle when I installed.

You may have noticed I did that with the tank on it's side
That makes everything sort of inverted in a parallel universe, or on layman's terms: Backwards

So I unbolted that, and clocked it the way I had intended in my universe and made the connection.

You probably can't see it well, but the line is actually bolted to the frame and tucked in tightly, although I plan to do a little bit more in a couple days to shield and protect (Sounds like something I read on the side of a police car!) the now exposed line.





During the short test drive I used Nick's suggested procedure to clear the very spongy brake pedal. Acclerating then slamming on the brakes hard. THe anti lock engaged and Voila'!! Good brakes!
Thanks Mr. (Sergeant) Nick (And thanks for serving my brother!)

Then I did the leak test. I do that by parking my truck on a parch of clean driveway which is hard to find. I leave it overnight and check it in the morn'

Well, it rained around 0600, so I have no clue what leaked if anything except for the sky, but it seems OK.
Another indication is the sled dog. You see she licks anything that leaks or falls to the ground. If it is fuel, oil, antifreeze or the like she gets sick. SO by observing her you can tell if something leaked. Diesel gives her the runs, brake fluid, grease, gasket sealer, paint, and latex paint makes her sick, and I believe Anti freeze would kill her.
So, she is alive! Good, no antifreeze leak!
But she has the runs, so...???



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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2014, 08:25:04 PM »
Today I decided to get the rear view camera working once again, or rather install another one that will feed into my GPS.
I decided to use an audiovox unit and custom mount it
Here's what I started with:


Yes, that's a new OSB welding table...hope this one last longer than the old one and at least as long as the cardboard welding table!

Looking at the bumper as supplied by Travis at Road Armor, I noticed a hole which seemed unoccupied and in fact seemed purpose cut to mount a camera.

It measured just under an inch at .95" A quick check put the camera barrel at a very close .90"
How could this be, a no drilling, no welding, no nothing camera install???
See for yourself:




And here it is just a couple minutes later:




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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2014, 08:27:40 PM »
At this point, since I would be splicing into the back up light cirvut, I decided to install a couple of LED work lights I had purchased some time ago.
They are super high quality units boasting solid aluminum castings for housings and stainless hardware. I believe I'm going to be adding these gems elsewhere as this build progresses.




To mount them mo-easily, I welded a 3/16" stainless screw to the bracket then bolted it all together.
When I installed them the first time, I immediately noticed the light mount placed the lamp way too high.
To somewhat alleviate this problem, I ground dowh the light housing and the top of the "U" bracket, the redrilled the hole through the housing, lowering the lamp a bit more than 1/2"
It's still too high, but it's the best I can do without cutting on the bumper.





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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2014, 08:33:29 PM »
After fishing the green wire which supplies power to the BU lamps, I soldered in both power wires from the lights and the power cable for the camera

The initial test proved everything was working so far


in this pic I have just started to tidy up the loose wires. I am stuffing them inside various size looms, the zip tying them to other cables. It is starting to look like stock.



I'm not done with lights on the rear bumper just yet. I never installed the lisence plate illuminators so that's next. I acid dipped the chrome housings then painted with primer and black paint. These will get soldered into the factory harness so the hookups will be same-same as chebby intended.



Here's how I left it for the evening...We'll be back on it in the morrow...





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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2014, 08:35:33 PM »
 just posted this on another thread. Regarding the Y-Bridge that Calvin at T-Rex is building, read below:

There is a plan afoot!
Talked with Calvin. He is going to modify your unit or someone else's. Someone just shipped one back, so I assume it is yours.
Anyway Calvin is going to mock it up and take a look at this interference issue. He is going to make a small bend for clearance. After that he is shipping the part to me. I am then going to do an evaluation, fit it up and all that and if necessary make adjustments. When both of us are happy that the thing fits, Calvin will use that part to make the new ones from.
So hold tight, this is going to be a 10 day to 2 week event to get it right, but when done, it will be right.
If the thing doesn't work, I'll say so and that will be that. I don't think that will be the case. I think Calvin has a good 75% part at the moment that just needs tweaking, not a redesign. So patience is the word, (As if there were any other choices)
Calvin feels remorse for getting the part out there a bit too soon. He responded to felt pressure to get a new part into the hands of people who really wanted it and perhaps (Don talking here) jumped the gun a bit. But I see it as a good thing. He jumped the gun because, sure he wants to be the first on a new part, but think about it. He DID produce the part. He does care enough to invest his personal time into building stuff for a small market. And for that he deserves credit, and he has my support. I'll support him as long as he does the right thing, and I think he is trying to do exactly that.

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2014, 08:43:29 PM »
                                                                                      (5901)
I finished the back-up camera addition. I split the cables and have it running to both the Edge CTS and the Kenwood stereo/reciever/GPS.

I also fashioned up the stainless steel skid plate for the bottom of the fuel tank. It is just a partial plate which I feel only needs to protect the sump and lines which are secured however could possibly be snagged.
I am not settled on this as a final design, however just something I threw together to keep the brush out of there during my off road farm trip excursions.

I used a piece of .032 sheet stainless steel. You know the type which you can't drill through if you tried. By keeping it to .032" it remains somewhat flexible, but totally puncture resistant.
It covers most of the stuff under there and is held very securely in place with HVAC nylon zip ties.




Installed:







Here it is:

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2014, 08:46:00 PM »
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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2014, 08:47:49 PM »
On another subject, the Y-Bridge Calvin is making, I just posted this message on another so named thread:

Just got an email from Calvin.
(Edit: I am refereing to the gentleman who posted that he had returned his ill fitting Y-Bridge to Calvin)
I guess he got two back. Yours and another which he said was in three pieces. Not sure if it came back in that condition or Mr. Calvin cut it up himself.
Anyway, he is upset all this happened and is trying to make this good. He is modifying your part and shipping it to me on Tuesday. I'll have it in a week or less and have it on the next day so we'll be able to move this ball downfield to maybe a touchdown???

Anyway, hang loose for a while longer and we'll close the loop on this Y-Bridge issue.

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2014, 08:59:12 PM »
OK, fellow Y-bridge watchers:

I just got the modified unit in from Calvin at T-Rex for a fit check.
Evaluating it with my Mark-1 eyeballs which are finely calibrated instruments of combat diaster and burned meals (As of late) I can see a rather obvious dent hammered into the thing by way of a acetylene torch and a ball-peen hammer.
Hopefully this is not production quality stuff, but pre-production only and sent to me for the purposes of checking clearance from the CP4A fuel line that has caused all the flap.

With this pre-production concept in mind, I will say the area which is not all bammered and burned up looks good, consistient with Calvin's quality.

I'd say we have to make this dent uniform and address a flap of steel protruding in the inside and if the part fits, we'd have a keeper.

Here's what I am seeing:




Some more shots





And the part I'm not liking so much, the interior flap. I think there will need to be some additional grinding on the production unit to get rid of this piece, which I'm sure we can work out.




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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2014, 09:02:52 PM »
I got the test fit of the Y-bridge done today.

It is a total no go! OK, Lets go through this thing.

I had a whole writeup on disassembly and so forth detailing the tools required and steps necessary, but that's a waste since this piece will not be manufactured and is now only a test piece.

I'll show the Y-bridge details for those who have never seen or explored one. It is fairly restrictive and needs to be replaced.
Here it is:




Interior view:




And for those who have never seen the right and left manifolds, here they are:




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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2014, 09:04:20 PM »
Here is the T-Rex Y-pipe about as close as this guy can get it:

You can clearly see the Y-pipe resting on the fuel supply line!




This is how far at the top side that gap from below translate into!



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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2014, 09:06:28 PM »
I think we need to revisit this process again.

With that said

This part was known not to fit. It was sold to 4-5 people. This particuliar part was modified and "Fixed" and sent to me to make sure it was all good before release to the GP.

Next we are going to look at the T-Rex upper cold side intercooler pipe that I just removed...There is rust forming on the inside



I wire brushed the living heck out of the pipe, washed it with laquer thinner, then painted it up with blitz black to try to corrosion proof it.






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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2014, 09:08:20 PM »

BTW. I did some experimentation with moving that line. Here is some shots of it unbolted.

Note: Even with it unbolted it could not be bent, IT is formed os some high strength stainless and I feared something that strong will also be brittle. With 10,000 psi inside, you don't want to intro a stress riser (Pre-crack)




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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2014, 09:08:40 PM »
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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2014, 09:12:40 PM »
More Y-Bridge news
Calvin and I just had a marathon phone conversation.
I was hanging over the fender of my truck while he asked me all sorts of questions to give him a better idea of what's going on in there.

Together we came up with a great idea that just might work.

Instead of running a round 3" pipe down to the bridge, why not run a oval made from 3" pipe. Then instead of angling it over toward the cold side, stand it more straight up and lean it forward.

That should clear everything and get it to fit.
Here's the best part...While hilding and looking at the very poor factory design, and understanding a thing or two about transonic airflow, it occurred to me this thing could prevent boundary layer air seperation and the resultant turbulence if we just built an angled fence on the short side of the bottom of the bridge

W O W

That will make a huge difference in airflow, or at least getting that high speed column of air to make the turn.
Good news is Calvin is up for it, and with another set of flanges he has is going to start on the redesign tomorrow. We will work together closely and see if version #2 can be all that we want it to be!

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2014, 09:15:45 PM »
So Mr. Kory, you are obviously a turbo guru to be sure...What say ye about a single built turbo unit vs a compound setup for daily use on these LML's?


Response by bluessmax (kory willis):
For 600 and still have stock spool just do a 475 over stock setup... It was very fun on the one I rode in.

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2014, 09:17:41 PM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armalite
Kory, if you don't mind, where would you see the compounds be the most versatile option to go with?


Kory:
Everywhere... That compound setup is AWESOME up to roughly 685-700hp. Past that point the stock turbo becomes much like a kink in the air system. H&S made 750hp fuel only, but the limiting factor to it being 750hp was by far the stock turbo. Pretend you have a straw (air system on the engine) that flows great, now lets take that straw and add small coffee straw (stock turbo) at the end and try to blow. What happens is the stock turbo opens the vanes all it can to not overspin itself, however, it has A TON of air trying to get though it and it can only physically move so much. At this point we have a ton a back pressure which creates EGTS and is stressful on components.

So up to 650-700hp that setup is very fun all around and still very efficient. Much better for towing as well as long as everything is in its efficiency range.

Hope that makes a little sense on turbochargers.


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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2014, 09:36:38 PM »
OK Y-Bridge stuff

Calvin will have this thing done today I think and in the mail to me ricky-tick.

The plan is for me to bolt it up again and see if we do any better than last time.

Here's the pics of the redesign:




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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2014, 09:47:45 PM »
I remember this list, put together by Armalite, one of the times we took over Don's build thread:

Future Install Recommendations, or FIR's, for Don's truck...


1. Armalite - Exterior Snorkel

2. stlaser - 4 link w/ coil overs

3. Barnett performance - roof rack

4. Camaroz2866 - hidden lock box for ammo/guns

5. KensAuto - 5 link w/ coil overs

6. BobbyB - spare fuel cell under bed

7. Cruizing - communications center including Ham Radio, HiGain CB, Cellular WiFi, SatPhone

8. Cudakidd53 - on board compressor w/ impact & bumper jack

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2014, 09:55:28 PM »
                                                                                                    (6846)
I'm going to use my thread here to conduct a small survey.
How many folks out there would like to investigate a solid axle conversion for the LML HD trucks?

I am currently talking to off road unlimited about such a project.
My vision is to keep it simple and rugged

Long and flexy leaf springs with dual shocks or a 2.5" or 3" front shock.
Dana 60 high steer with a traction device and of course one of those really cool GLO diff covers and a not too tall 6"-7" lift height.

Murice over at Off road unlimited does not make a LML kit, so I may be interested in adapting his existing stuff and figuring it out for the rest of the folks out there.

Now, the truck already has an excellent, well sorted out front suspension. It does most things well, but does not have a great deal of flex for more aggressive off road situations such as my survival truck build would encounter.

I estimate I really need about 36" suspension flex, front to rear to adequately crawl over most Hyundais and Kias since those flimsy pieces of junk all crush down to the size of their poorly designed motors anyway. Since Americans have seen fit to clog up our by-ways with those things along with a healthy supply of Dodge Neons, I want a suspension capable of crawling over that junk on my way to freedom.

So, what say ye about this?
I'll post up on another thread to get some coverage...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 09:56:42 PM by KensAuto »

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2014, 10:03:39 PM »
Posted by A****:
Don. Why do u wanna run leafs instead of a 4link. Wouldn't u get more flex from a parallel 4link then leafs? And you can dial in the suspension better than with leafs

...by KensAuto:
Yeah Don, why not a 4 link? front and rear ? rofl


Don replies:
The last SAS I did was a 5-link.
4-Link Plus a panhard
Fellas, that's a lot of work. Angles are critical and easily messed up. Not as easy as it may appear. There is a ton of fab in there doing that and it really changes the vehicle.
The end links/uniballs are expensive and so are the coil-overs. Then there's all that messing with spring rates, length of stroke, valving and so forth. If you haven't done it, there is a book worth of information you are not considering. It is not as simple as just tossing a coin.
When I did my Tundra, I was the only one in the world who attempted it. 8 other guys went with leaves. All got their SAS done quickly and the best of them could do 80% of what I could do. It took me a year to get it installed, cut out, reinstalled and working correctly.

Leaves are strong. They are simple. They give you a ton of travel. They are much stronger than those link arms. Lots and lots of parts in a full link setup. All those parts are constantly corroding, wearing, needing grease, squeaking, rusting, needing maintenance, and so forth.
Springs...Not so much.

If you want to go uber cool, and cost, time, don't matter, then link it up and make sure you powder coat it up some pretty color...Show stuff.
If you want it to work 6 years down the road, leaf spring it and forget it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KensAuto
Easy there Big D ! All kidding aside, I would leave it stock. An SAS front end build would be uber (yes I said uber) cool and all but you could do 20 other projects in the time it would take to make it up to your standards and to work the bugs out. plus these LMLs ride pretty darn good considering how much stouter they are compared to the past generations. Just my humble opinion.


Special K

All true. There is a strong argument for staying with a stock style suspension. It needs scads of work, to, well, work
It needs that UCA droop stop removed
That necessitates a mo-better and longerer shock. Might just as well make it larger diameter and cut some steel out of the way to get it in there.
I think the tie rod ends I have accommodate more angle, but that would have to get looked into
The sway bar would have to be a disconnectable. and finally the axle shafts would have to be changed to some of those RCD units made of core stellar matter (Anti matter forged in Mt. Doom)
All that gets a suspension capable of flexing maybe 2"-3" more at best.
OK, I can work with that
But it won't ever (Even in leap year) out wiggle a SAS.
Then with the SAS you get to pick stronger everything and even add a locker whichins we kant do nutin bout at the present time!
So, all that spawned the question I raised with Murice at ORU some time ago which has led us to this point.
Nothing has been decided, and nothing may come of it. but I am definitely asking the question.
In the end I could opt to refine the IFS like I did on my Hummer H2. It worked fine as long as you don't mind a wheel hanging 5 feet in the air sometimes!


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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2014, 10:08:33 PM »
Posted by KensAuto:
have you measured your current amount of flex? Can't remember if you posted it or not. I just finished rebuilding my forklift and guess what the first thing I did with it was.....yes, I lifted a front tire to check flex.....got exactly 19". Not to sure what I expected to see, but at least I can say my forklift works. [color]

Ken,

The 19", that was front to rear, correct?
If it is like most IFS vehicles, then 70% of that flex is in the rear springs
Doing a bit of cipherin' I come up with 5.7" flex in the front which sounds about right.
Pitiful isn't it?
But that's what engineers do these days. They design around their road courses. They measure the largest impact reaction and build something to accommodate that plus a small margin.
By comparison, I got 40" of travel out of my SAS Tundra after I loosened up everything on it!

...KensAuto:
[color]].....yes, just lifting a front tire 'til the rear tire started to break contact with Earth. I didn't have time to measure in detail what was flexing. I had customers showing up and looking at me like I lost my mind so I dropped the truck and went back to work as if I always lift vehicles that way to check for leaks.[color]

Yepper!
That is about right!
Less than 6" suspension travel in the whole front end!
Most guys don't realize just how little they get
When I measured the Tundra I got a tad over 3"
That made me sick enough to cut the front suspension completely off the following day to force me to change it to a SAS!
That's why I haven't measured mine yet...You see, I have a better plasma than I had before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 10:11:51 PM by KensAuto »

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2014, 10:13:02 PM »
Special K
How about doing it all again and take a bunch of measurements
That way we can see exactly what is going on
Of course if you want to see Don leave his stock suspension intact,
Then
Disregard this message!


...KensAuto:
I'll get right on it! Gonna try to do it on concrete this time to be more accurate ......3" on a tundy is just wrong any way you slice it.

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2014, 10:05:18 PM »
Posted by KensAuto:
Checking articulation :
First, I checked from top of tires to bottom of fenders, front and rear. I had 11" in the front and 11 and 3/4" in the rear (average, rounded to nearest 1/8"). Lifted it with the forklift and remeasured all corners.....
 



.....I was surprised to see only 1" of compression in the front left and 2 1/4" of extension in the front right (it was still partially loaded) for a total of 3 1/4" travel. And the last pic shows one of the reasons why....she's hard into the bump stop. Part of this issue is because of the 4-6" lift that is set at 4". And as Don predicted, the rear was very flexy. The rt. rear compressed 6" and the left dropped 7 3/4 for a total of 13 3/4" of travel. The front tire was also 19" off of the ground.

Note: I went back and got a true drop on the front using a floor jack and ended up with 6 1/4".





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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2014, 10:06:14 PM »
...And that is why we look to SAS!
Factory suspensions ride very well on roads and smoothness sells vehicles. Get 6 feet off a dirt road and you're in trouble.
The reason we need more suspension travel off road is that the act of lifting a tire or lessening its ground pressure reduces traction dramatically.
With the tundra, I was off roading it when it had a "lift" and the factory junk suspension. I drove over a rock about the size of a football. (No kidding, not making this up) The truck stopped. I set the brake, put it in park and investigated. That tiny front suspension travel was taking weight off the rear tires. One lost traction and began to spin. With an open diff, I was cooked!

For serious off roading you need to keep your tires planted and the only way to do that is to keep the tires not only planted, but firmly planted. Then you take advantage of all the terrain and not just three patches of it.

The difference of my stock Tundra vs the flexy one was dramatic, just take a look at what I was doing with it:


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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2014, 10:09:25 PM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by C**********
Would you say trimming the uca stop a little to give it a little more travel would be beneficial as long as not giving it too much to break anything? Is their room to allow the axles, sway bar etc. to allow the stops to be trimmed some without having to switch out parts etc.?

                   
I would say DEFINATELY DON'T DO IT unless you are ready to replace the newly stressed parts before driving the truck again.
Think about it. If you now allow the arm to droop out to a point where the maximum tie rod angle is exceeded, you could crack it or pull the ball out of the socket. Then you drive away only to have your steering completely fail while on the road somewhere. My luck I would be adjacent a rocket fuel plant and go careening into a storage tank!

The travel of our front ends as just shown by Ken on this thread is pitifully inadequate. He was getting closer to 3" total travel than the 5.1" he thought he had. That's just a little more than nothing.

The more I think about it, the stock stuff is not worth fooling with. I mean you monkey with it and introduce a whole host of issues you now need to solve. You buy parts, get alignments, and fuss with things and after it's all said and done you have a suspension which can flex, what? Six inches tops?

See where I'm going with this. The benefit definitely does not outweigh the effort nor the cost, so I think maybe it is a big no-go.

I think I just decided to do a SAS on my truck and stop playing around with this nice ridin' factory stuff. After all my truck is a focused survival vehicle. If it can't survive leaving the road at speed, then what do I really have? Seems it's more of "I hope it will make it" and not a "I've got this in the bag!"
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 09:06:51 AM by KensAuto »

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2014, 10:14:05 PM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlaser View Post
Oh NOooooooooooo! The dreaded coil overs and link suspension!

Gets worse young Sky-Walker

                                                                                                      (6896)
Talking to WFO Concepts today about SAS and my truck, they think because of the bend in the frame it might get too tall if I use leaf springs. The young man there was all over getting me to try out a 4-link, or a 3-link old bronco style setup. Actually, I'd be much more in favor of the latter. Keeping with my KISS principle way of approaching this project.
He advised that the only axle to consider was a 78-79 HPD-60 out of a Fard F250, F350.

...Contacted WFO Concepts today
We talked about the SAS project for some time
Seems like they have it going on, think like me and have a lot of great parts I can use.
So I believe I am deciding to press forward with the SAS.
They did advise me to only go with a 78-79 F250 HPD60.
He was thinking that is the only axle that was HD enough and actually had room for the 32" spring perch pads if I went with leaves.
They were pushing a 4-link or old Bronco three link style hard. That would be a lot easier to fit in there and we all know from experience just how well that all works.
SO that will be the plan for now:
3-Link, Panhard 78-79 high pinion Dana 60, and coil overs. I think I might go wild and crazy on that count and source a 12" travel 3" shock and add in a 2.5" X 14" travel rear shock. I could drive over single axle dump trucks with that setup and still have junior sleepin' like a kitten in the backseat. I am also going to add a front selectable locker, stay with 4.56 gears and step up to 37's and possibly 38's.
I guess it's time to start gathering parts, so who has that axle???????

 
Wouldn't happen to have one would ya???
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 09:07:19 AM by KensAuto »

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2014, 09:08:34 AM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by KensAuto
Can't wait to watch this pan out. I have also decided to modify mine in a way to get more action up front....1" before she bottoms out, mmmm, maybe that's why it's so rough down washboards and so darn smooth on the street. My problem is, I take offroading/hunting pretty serious, but where I'm located I have to drive 120-240 miles to get to the offroad part (and I drive faster than posted...always). Got to try and balance high speed driveability with at least some offroad prowless.

Ken,
If you pay attention to spring rates and shock valving and keep the shocks big in diameter, you can drive it just like you do now. I drove my Tundra just like a car. Folks were amazed at how it drove. One time a Taco guy told me my SAS Tundy drove better than his near stock Taco.
Working with a heavy truck should actually make it all work better. It's when you get little to no weight and you're trying to get that to act on big shocks that is more of a problem.

Well, this thing won't happen overnight, but as soon as I get it more cyphered out, I'll get some parts rolling in.
My plan of attack will be to acquire the axle first. No sense in pressing on if I don't have an axle. Once I get that I'll get the whole thing completely built to include the steering (High steer of course)
Then I'll get the shocks. I'm partial to King, but Fox makes some good stuff. I'll talk to the smart guys and have some good data (Corner weights) and so forth to go by. Only when I have all the parts on station will I commence teardown.

I'll probably build a total custom sheet metal shock tower and get that 12" shock in there. Now, for those who don't know shocks, that 12" referes to the stroke, not the length of the shock. a 12" coilover is more like 30" long fully extended. Not small stuff at all! No real need to go to a 14" shock as that would produce 28" difference right to left not counting any rear flex.

I'll probably build in a 60% rear to 40% front travel bias. That means loosening things up in the back and some longer 16" shocks back there along with some flexier springs residing in the back.

Anyway, It's time to find that axle and gather information and some parts, so let's go. Find me that axle!

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2014, 09:11:00 AM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlaser
Yes, but it's been narrowed & is currently residing under an EB.....

I say build it from scratch, I can help you acquire parts as you know. The ford axle probably wouldn't have the pinion in the exact spot you want anyhow. Plenty of companies making those after market ford arms & I have track bar frame mount drop brackets sitting in my shop that have not been listed on the site yet....

I think I'll use the concept, but not the Bronco parts. I was thinking of tabing it just like I was doing a 4-link, but then just run the lower arm, then the upper length adjustable link (For caster adjustments) from the lower bar to the upper tab.
I'm sure you have seen all that before.
I think I'll keep the arm relatively long to keep movement down and lessen impacts from the whoops...
So you want to build the HPD60?

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2014, 09:15:27 AM »
Here's the cap I am considering to replace the tac topper project with:





Posted by Armalite:
Don, I like the new progression. The tac topper was a neat idea, nothing wrong with that. But there is always something better suited out there, most of the time. I feel you are making the right decision by scrapping it and going with one pre-built, so all you have to do is modify it some to fit your needs.

I honestly feel you will look back in a years time, and think "man, what was I thinking on that tac topper?? Cool concept, but a lot of invested time/money for a sub par over weight project."

That new commercial topper will be ALOT sturdier as well, by utilizing the contours of the bed and bed floor for support, and not just the side rails like the tac topper was going to use...

Push forward...

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2014, 09:15:57 AM »
Yea, it's starting to feel like I need to buy the ARE unit and modify to suit.

Afterall, I'll be in fab city for a while with this SAS project!

BTW, if Me and Shawn get that sorted out, you going to go for one as well?

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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2014, 09:17:00 AM »
Talking to El Tate over at Randy's Ring and Pinion. I will be getting all the moving parts from them. Great shop with friendly people. Same ones that helped me with the locker and 4.56's last year.

Found a shop in PA. that has some F350 High pinion D60 cores. Will be contacting them and getting started on that.


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Re: LML Duramax Silverado Build Thread....C-MAX [Part 3-Titan Fuel Tank & SAS]
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2014, 09:17:36 AM »
About two hours ago I purchased, well ordered an ARE DCU aluminum commercial topper. It is very much like the one pictured on that F350 a few posts back.
That one was a 26" unit, I ordered a 29" model. The roof is at 23" so I will have a 6" rise above the roofline.
I ordered it with double barn style rear doors with glass in each and a security screen, a swing up door on each side with double windows in each, interior carpet, 4 interior lights and a foot massager.
OK one of those I just threw in there so any democrats reading this will have something to be angry about.
It takes 3-4 weeks to build so I'm looking at nearly September to get it bolted on.
No worries, I'll have the corner piled up with lights, hooks, gun rack, tractor beam and other stuff before it even arrives!