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OldKooT

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Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« on: February 10, 2015, 05:39:12 PM »
Sometimes things happen in odd or funny ways as well all know. This project beginning has a story. Since I prefer build threads with pictures and lots of quality reading, that's how this will proceed. So before I "explain" the story, a few pictures are in order.




The first picture dates about 10 years ago my wife says. She keeps track of such things so I will go with that.

The second picture is also about 10 years old and was shot while we explored some old logging roads in Idaho.

As seen in the picture's the basic truck specifications were as follows. 500ci/727, Coan converter/205. Axles were Dana 60 up front 4.56/Detroit Locker. Rear was a 14 Bolt 4.56 Detroit Locker. Springs were custom done Alcan's, and rubber was 38.5 Michelin Xml's.

As equipped it has been to Mexico, all over the USA and Canada. It was always a great performer and a reliable old friend.

We parted it out about 8 years ago I guess, all we have now is a cab/frame/one rear door and a title LoL

Next post... the story.

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 05:58:59 PM »
Ok as promised....the story. Last summer my wife and I built her a Cummins powered 1988 Ramcharger. It really turned out nice.

We were preparing to go to Moab Utah with it last September to hang out with some forum friends and do some exploring/wheeling. Well as life has a way, the truck didn't cooperate and we didn't get done in time for the trip.

So we improvised and we bought a 1991.5 W250 Cummins truck out of a field from a farmer. We drove it home after adding a new battery, tossed 4 new stock sized tires on it, fixed the brake lights, and the leaking master cylinder as well as the missing transmissions mounts, and then headed to Moab. Exactly 7 hours after we bought it. 

Well again we didn't make it... we got as far as Denver my wife felt very ill, and after a visit to the ER, we drove home and pouted a bit.

Now we had a mostly finished Ramcharger, a new to us fist gen Pickup we really didn't need, and two weeks of vacation left. So we drove the new to us pickup to Wisconsin, visited our grand kids and did some back woods exploring/wheeling/fishing and had a grand time.

We talked a lot on that trip and the subject that kept coming up over and over was how much we missed traveling and exploring remote areas with our old Crew cab. So... that was September of 2014.  Here we are February 2015 and we have pulled the trigger..... next post.






Offline EL TATE

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 06:21:09 PM »
Getting excited over here buddy.  ;D
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 06:36:36 PM »
Us farmer/ranchers don't have "mission plans" what we do is just improvise in a not so orderly fashion. This will become clear in a few moments.

The intended disorderly project pipe dream as it were: We are going to build a Dodge crew cab. That's our only real plan.

Engine: A VE equipped 6BT. We are most likely going to swipe the engine from my wife's Ramcharger. It's fresh (maybe 2000 miles) it's specs are as follows. I built it to OEM specifications as far as the short block goes. It is balanced, has ARP rod bolts and was lovingly assembled. The head was extrude honed and ported by hand as well. It's O ringed and runs a Hamilton cam also. KDP is killed obviously as well. It also has a few other goodies like better pushrods, valve springs, and a extrude honed ASE exhaust manifold. A Super B turbo, and an accompanying down pipe. The NOS fresh new VE pump has a 3200rpm governor spring, some tweaking to the tuning, and a home ground fuel pin. Oh and some 5x17 Injector also.

Transmission: A brand New crate fresh NV4500. It also has the the 5th gear updated shaft as well. this will also be stolen from my wife's truck.

Transfer case: A rebuilt fresh 205, and possibly if time and cash flow allows a Magnum Box from Off Road Design In Colorado.

Front Dana 60: 4.10 gears, and I think this time we will possibly try a Grizzly Locker. Factory inner axles, and a 35 spline outer axle upgrade should suffice for now. I am still researching the Locker aspect.

Rear axle: 14 Bolt Chevy, 4.10's and a Detroit. I will also do a disk brake conversion as well.

Suspension: Who knows, still thinking about a few options that are on the possible table.

Tires/wheels: 17" 40" tall something or another.

The USAF Dodge crew cabs had almost no interior comfort, were quite basic, and in many regards we are going to continue that concept as we bring this thing back to life. It may just look a lot like a USAF Crew cab with larger rubber, much like the old pictures of it.

Things we always swore we'd change while we drove across N America with it over a decade ago:

Fuel economy/range: The diesel should solve this problem largely. 40 gallons of fuel should solve the rest.

Comfort: It was always fine, but we often wished it had Air Conditioning, so we will add that this go around.

Utiline bed: I about knocked the rear bed sides/tail lights off this truck a dozen times in remote trail situations. I always said it needed a step side bed, and then none of those incidents would have been a issue. So this time, a short step side it will be.

Pto Winch: This will happen, or a 12K Hydraulic, or maybe both LoL But in keeping with my desire to keep this truck parking garage friendly and under 6500lbs, I'd settle for the one.

For now that's about it, I have contacted a media blaster fella about doing the cab in the next month or so you should see plenty of "action" as this thing WILL be on the road before August.
















 




Offline KensAuto

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 08:22:40 PM »
Sounds like fun!!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 09:57:22 PM »
OH YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 10:14:02 PM »
Sweet. This sounds like an awesome build!
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Offline JR

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 11:54:17 PM »
Nice plan and this should be good. Much less a wife who like it and understands!!
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2015, 03:34:43 AM »
I was asked to post a picture of the 88RC. I have a few handy when it was close to done...

The parts truck for the Crew Cab.... 1988 Ramcharger CTD/5 speed 42K original miles, original paint truck.






Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2015, 08:52:09 AM »
Norm,

That thing is gorgeous!

You selling it?
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2015, 10:55:56 AM »
Don...we should sell it, but my wife wants to go a different direction with it. So it will be a parts donor for the Crew. And she said thanks for the compliment, she built much of that RC herself.


Offline JR

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2015, 11:36:27 AM »
Maybe a 4bt in there??
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 12:37:47 PM »
Maybe a 4bt in there??

JR... I think her plans are along the lines of nutz LoL Last she talked she intends to swap a 2x4 front/rear suspension it in, drop it on the ground with a rear 9" Ford. Then 18" rubber, some fat sway bars, and a built LS Chevy/4L60 Combo. She has some time to think about it. The crew cab and the M37  are going to get built first.


Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 12:42:12 PM »
Don...we should sell it, but my wife wants to go a different direction with it. So it will be a parts donor for the Crew. And she said thanks for the compliment, she built much of that RC herself.


Your wife built that??!!

Wow, I'm compressed!

My wife couldn't tell the difference between a 3/8" bolt and a cocklebur!

Good work!
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Offline JR

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 02:28:22 PM »
Good ideas on all but I would think along the lines of a Dana 60 in the rear. Dime a dozen, stronger and I bet you could find a bolt in with no mods.

Heck Don, my wife has trouble with left and right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2015, 02:51:25 PM »
Maybe a 4bt in there??

JR... I think her plans are along the lines of nutz LoL Last she talked she intends to swap a 2x4 front/rear suspension it in, drop it on the ground with a rear 9" Ford. Then 18" rubber, some fat sway bars, and a built LS Chevy/4L60 Combo. She has some time to think about it. The crew cab and the M37  are going to get built first.



Can you say, "she wants to do an episode of "Pinks All Out""  8)
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2015, 04:26:30 PM »
Good ideas on all but I would think along the lines of a Dana 60 in the rear. Dime a dozen, stronger and I bet you could find a bolt in with no mods.


I have one available that will probably bolt right in.  4.11 gears and a limited slip...

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2015, 07:16:06 PM »
I think her plan for that truck right now is to find it a comfy resting place in the barn and gut it of it's engine and transmission, and then leave it sit for next winters project.

W350 News: I spent most the day today renovating our crude shop a bit to prepare for the actual physical start of this project. I discovered my trusty old wore out IR air compressor is about hatched. I have been meaning to renovate a Vietnam war era Champion compressor I piked up at some auction. Looks like that project is going to be first on the plate...I like my air tools LoL




Offline ce_tx

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 08:13:27 PM »
Great looking crew cab!  Will definitely be following this one. 8)
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 10:29:31 PM »
Great looking crew cab!  Will definitely be following this one. 8)

Thanks man... given the level of detail and time you have spent on yours, I fear this one may be a bit rough in comparison when done. But we will see how things work out....glad to have you here.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2015, 08:32:04 AM »
Glad to have both of you here!
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 09:00:34 AM »
I discovered my trusty old wore out IR air compressor is about hatched. I have been meaning to renovate a Vietnam war era Champion compressor I piked up at some auction. Looks like that project is going to be first on the plate...I like my air tools LoL

A compresssor-rebuild-story…

I like it!

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=76.0
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 09:02:41 AM by Dustoff35 »

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 09:55:46 AM »
Shall I include the compressor rebuild fiasco in this thread....or create a special one elsewhere to show my folly? I will share here.... it's a boring Thursday after all LOL

It's got a 4cyl Military Standard engine. A R15 Champion Pump, and a 80 Gallon Tank.

I need to remove the gasoline engine, figure out how big of a electric Motor I need, and sort out all the other particulars to convert it from gas to electric. Here is what Champion says about the pump...

"Champions R15 replacement pump is a two-stage, splash lubricated pump and has an RPM range of 440 - 990, a CFM range of 9.7 - 23.4, and a max PSI of 175. The R15 replacement pump is suitable for a 3, 5, or 7.5 HP motor."

So.... I want max CFM obviously so 990RPM I imagine. Wonder if this is a situation I can round up and just say 1000? LoL

Guess I should measure the pumps flywheel and do some math.

For those interested it's covered in this manual. It's the Horizontal 80 gallon model.

http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-5-4310-277-14.pdf


Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2015, 12:00:00 PM »
Try to run the RPMs as low as you can tolerate in order to keep the heat generated by the compressor pump down as much as you can.

The hotter it runs, the more heat is transferred to the tank, and the more moisture you will have in the compressed air at the tool.  Then again, depending on what part of Nebraska you live in, if you have relatively low humidity in the ambient air, moisture may not be much of a concern...


OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2015, 12:40:23 PM »
The issue of pump RPM vs moisture vs CFM is one I have been studying on a bit.

The specs I am given lead me to believe the following is the most sensible.

If I run it with a 5hp motor and turn the pump at 750 rpm, I will make 21.9CFM and roughly 12,000btu heat rejection per hour. I never use more than 125psi in my shop anyway.

With the compressors older tank, 125psi seems more sensible. 

I think I will plumb everything so when running the sandblaster/painting I can use both 80 gallon tanks. Using the second tank as both for larger air capacity, but also if it's mounted 20' away from the main compressor, it should solve moisture/cooling issues if I am running the compressor hard sand blasting.

160 gallons of air plus 3/4" lines, and 21 cfm should work smartly. My blaster only can use 14.4cfm according to it's specs.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 12:42:14 PM by OldKooT »

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2015, 01:10:36 PM »
Having that extra 80 gallons will help a lot.

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2015, 08:48:17 PM »
Well not loads to report, but we had some decent weather so we took a look at the underneath of the  Crew cab. Before it went into long term storage if you will I had sand blasted the bottom side and tossed some cheap primer on it. Looks like it survived sitting for many years quite well.



Now to get the frame unburied and in the shop/barn/shed thing.


Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2015, 07:39:01 AM »
Heck, nothing wrong with that at all. And considering that is your starting point you will really have something when it's all done!
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2015, 08:12:18 AM »
Gotta love those western trucks, low humidity and minimal rust.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2015, 10:22:05 AM »
Come on Norm, let's see something

Don't let 6 feet of snow, below zero temps, and 60 MPH wind stop ya!

This thread is not about you, it's for all of us!  ;)
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2015, 06:12:07 PM »
LoL  I have been recently trying to decide if I am going to use these wheels, or sell them.

They are Chevy Duramax Border Patrol Hutchinson bead locks.





























« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 06:13:33 PM by OldKooT »

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2015, 06:29:30 PM »
LoL  I have been recently trying to decide if I am going to use these wheels, or sell them.

They are Chevy Duramax Border Patrol Hutchinson bead locks.































Yea, ya know, they're no good

I'd just get rid of em'

I might be able to take them off your hands...

I mean since they aren't any good, and all...
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2015, 06:33:03 PM »
My issue is the lack of decent 38" sized rubber in 16" rim sizes. But that said I am usre if I sold them I could partially fund some 17" wheels that fit my needs.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2015, 06:41:39 PM »
My issue is the lack of decent 38" sized rubber in 16" rim sizes. But that said I am usre if I sold them I could partially fund some 17" wheels that fit my needs.

Not speaking for him, but Duane is going to build a crew that is a lot closer to a stocker than mine, and we all can appreciate a double bead lock and the quality of a Hutchinson wheel.

How'd you score them anyway? No borders near Nebraska!
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2015, 11:09:02 PM »
I bought them from a govt surplus auction years ago. I have considered selling them many times, they bring good coin these days.

Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2015, 07:05:47 AM »
Those are very nice wheels...

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2015, 10:41:36 AM »
Lets see today is Tuesday 2/24/15, we have accomplished nothing whatsoever on this project. On the upside, we haven't screwed anything up, or changed our mind. So there is hope we will eventually get this moving.


Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2015, 09:07:53 PM »
If you are wanting to move those Hutchinson wheels, let me know…  :)

Offline EL TATE

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2015, 05:36:33 PM »
LoL  I have been recently trying to decide if I am going to use these wheels, or sell them.

They are Chevy Duramax Border Patrol Hutchinson bead locks.


ya know if you're going to be that nice, taking them off his hands and all, you might even get him to cover the shipping costs? what do ya think Kooter?




























Yea, ya know, they're no good

I'd just get rid of em'

I might be able to take them off your hands...

I mean since they aren't any good, and all...
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2015, 08:30:09 PM »
LoL at the wheel banter. I will be honest they are worth more than any of you would pay. I have a standing offer of $1400 for the 4 of them. If any of you want them that badly I'd sell them to you before I would the standing offer guy....(if I liked him he'd own them already) but I am sure I will just end up using them. But if I am wrong, and any of you really want them, PM me and lets talk.

Assuming I don't get a PM regarding the wheels I will soon order new O rings for them, break them down, have the wheel mounting surface machined perfectly flat along with the rotors they will be mounted on, and order some tires. This should impress those with OCD LoL

Today I was considering building a reverse rotation high pinion Dana 60 front axle to alleviate the Dodges poor pinion angle issue when lifted. I haven't decided if I like this idea yet...but I am still pondering it.

thus closes day # (not sure) of ding nothing.












Offline EL TATE

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2015, 10:20:30 AM »
I like HP D60 for one more reason; in the front they actually run on the drive side of the ring gear, making them about 40% stronger than a standard rotation front which inherently is running on the coast side of the gears.
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OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2015, 11:20:21 AM »
The High pinion idea has many merits. I spent 20 min in our lovely -3F weather this morning studying under my daily driver Dodge... I am unsure at the lift height I want to run, that the HP may not cause as many problems as it solves. I may revisit this a bit further when I have the frame on stands and just go ahead and test fit a Ford front axle and measure.

The strength issue was one of my motives also.... although admittedly every Dana 60 front R&P I have broken, it was always the pinion shaft that failed.

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2015, 08:16:37 AM »
Not much to update but there was some small progress. Yesterday my wife and I answered a Craigslist add for "1987 Dodge parts"  After a brief phone discussion we drove over and scored two rust free front doors, a blue AC dash (been looking for one of these for ages) and two blue door panels. We also nabbed a mint blue vinyl front bench seat.

So some small progress while we wait for mother nature to spring some warmer weather on us.


OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2015, 09:58:06 PM »
Today 3/08/15 we went shopping at a local swap meet for charity that's held here every year. My eldest son and I wandered around for a few minutes after arrival and I about fell over. Sitting in front of me on a old trailer were 4 Hutchison Bead locks and MTR's. So...long story short we brought these home.



Now I have two sets of wheels I am not sure about LoL

On a different note we called it quits about noon at the swap meet and came home. My wife and I did some cleaning and if this warm (50 degree) weather holds, I think tomorrow we should be able to extract the Crew Cabs frame from the ice it's presently stuck in.

We are eagerly looking forward to being able to say we just finished day #1 of working on this thing...the official start is near.






Offline Flyin6

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2015, 10:13:32 PM »
We're all waiting

And those wheels are outstanding!
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Offline JR

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2015, 05:02:54 AM »
The tires look OK to, not a bad deal at all. I saw a set on ebay for over 4k!!!!!!!
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2015, 11:54:05 AM »
The High pinion idea has many merits. I spent 20 min in our lovely -3F weather this morning studying under my daily driver Dodge... I am unsure at the lift height I want to run, that the HP may not cause as many problems as it solves. I may revisit this a bit further when I have the frame on stands and just go ahead and test fit a Ford front axle and measure.

The strength issue was one of my motives also.... although admittedly every Dana 60 front R&P I have broken, it was always the pinion shaft that failed.

Side note on the pinion shafts failing; typical culprits are a lack of carrier bearing preload, especially with setups done at home. Essentially, one can not "over-preload" carrier bearings, but it is very easy to under preload them. if you don't have a housing spreader it's darn near impossible to get a properly preloaded carrier installed into a dana housing because the additional shims added to the carrier to establish preload increase the width. most guys at home leave a few thou out of the equation to allow for easier install, which is fine for daily avg use, but when you apply torque to big tires, the housings can flex and allow the pinion teeth to walk out on the ring gear teeth to the weaker edge of the tooth, allowing them to chip, crack, break off entirely. once one goes the others like lemmings follow it's lead.

moral; make it so tight you swear you can't get it installed, then force it in. as long as your pattern is good, a few miles of driving with oil in the bearings will loosen it up a tad and even one you couldn't previously turn by hand will operate flawlessly.
Husband, Father, Gear guy, Patriot.

OldKooT

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2015, 09:33:40 AM »
I actually do own a housing spreader. Just used it yesterday to help extract and extremely stubborn carrier out of Dana 61 front I am building. 

FWIW I have never broken a Dana 60 R & P but I have broken multiple pinion shafts. A couple Detroits, and one housing. Farming is hard on stuff


Offline JR

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2015, 12:53:22 PM »
I always saved one of the thick shims for last. Was a B**&^ to get in but worked.

Thats what is nice about the GM corps, they have a nut for preload.
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Offline Jungle

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Re: Yet another old Dodge crew cab project (1985 W350 USAF)
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2015, 03:43:46 PM »
Hi Norm
Jim

 

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