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SquareD Build Thread, Part 1: The beginning
« on: September 20, 2014, 07:59:51 PM »
Why Square D you ask?

Because this build is an ancient square fender Dodge, so Square D

Many of you are very familiar with this build or transformation or whatever it is, but to some of you this is new

Inceptually, this Dodge truck purchase was made to augument the Chevy truck and to cover for an extended period of time while the Silverado received a solid front axle. I thought I would replace the rubber, change fluids, clean it up and after maybe a month of replacing and fixing things, place it into service.

But just so many things were out of whack that as I dug deeper into it, I realized I could not resurrect a half baked thrown together truck, or just bring it down and redo it.

The redo part grew over time to the point most of the body was removed from the frame and all the suspension was completely modified and reinstalled onto a freshened up frame.

Somewhere along the way, I realized that in extremis, should the US come under nuclear attack, and I actually survived that, the EMP would render the Duramax inoperative for the rest of my life. But this ancient old Dodge would crank up immediately and never realize what just happened...It has no electronics to speak of.

Thinking and swallowing hard because of all the effort spent on the Chevy it had an Achilles heel, it's mind boggling web of electronics! It would always be the weak sister to a much older design.

I plan to correct that some day with the addition of a 12 valve Cummins engine installation and old school transmission to make it concrete proof useable forever.

But for now, SquareD is evolving to be a first rate survival vehicle that you could drive every day, has loads of power, sips (Any) fuel, and has abilities not seen outside the Army or Marine Corps.

With that all said, let's get on to the actual build which started in the summer of 2012
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 08:52:18 AM by Flyin6 »
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2014, 08:02:37 PM »
OK boys and girls, let's get this thing started

For those who follow my LML build thread

Titled

"My build thread"

You already know where this thing is going. It will get very detailed, and get derailed, then back on track and who knows where.
Having said that, this is what I would like to do here:
I plan to build this Dodge truck to be an EMP proof, survival truck.
What exactly does that mean, Survival truck?
Well, it always needs to start.
It needs to be multi-fuel capable
Readily available spare parts
Reliable
Able to carry heavy loads and tow a trailer
Have a range of about 1000 miles, maybe more
Be all terrain capable as well as capable of a long day of highway driving.

It will be the backup vehicle to the LML survival truck I built as any good survival plan has many layers, each providing it's own capabilities

Before we write a book in the first post, here's a picture of it the moment I purchased it:
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2014, 08:06:00 PM »


Another view
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 07:40:53 AM by Flyin6 »
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2014, 08:13:12 PM »
It has 171,000 miles and starts right up and runs great.
The steering is shot, as is the exhaust. A brake caliper is grabbing and the shocks are nearly rusted in half
The frame is solid, the truck was Ziebart protected when new and shows it. I can find no severe rust other than the surface stuff.
Apparently it has seen some combat, since it sports this nifty area denoting it's various kills
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2014, 08:14:05 PM »
The front bumper thing was apparently removed from a B&O locomotive or from the set of "Mad Max, Beyond the Thunderdome
It will be going bye bye...
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2014, 08:14:53 PM »
The theme I am going to use is simple. I mean to keep it simple.
You see I really believe "Less is more."
Therefore, expect no bling, little over-the-top, and certainly no techy anything.
Tires you ask?? Well just a set of 33" all terrain or mud terrains on some simple serviceable wheel.
Brakes: Stock, but rebuilt with good pads
Paint? Probably back to stock
Engine: Sane. Will build around little to no smoke, 400HP 20+MPG and dead reliability.
Speaking of engines:
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2014, 08:15:49 PM »
This is the first year Dodge intercooled the Cummins. It has a way too small turbo which I will replace, an inferior VE injection pump, which I will keep and perfect.
The interior will get a super cleaning, seat replaced, and probably color changed to black.
I will likely just put a new rubber floor matt back in after I spray the inside with sound deadening lizard skin
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 08:16:48 PM »
It doesn't have a tach, so I'll have to do something about that...
So, here's point zero before the first wrench is turned on what I hope to be an amazing transformation
I hereby name this project "Square D" (for square Dodge)
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2014, 08:20:09 PM »
So, although it's early in this build here's how this thing is shaping up:

First, it is unsafe to drive, so all of that is getting fixed at Roy's shop before I take it home.
That includes
Borgensen steering shaft
Replace all tie rods
Replace the rubber brake lines
Replace the calipers/rotors/brakes
Fix the transfer case output wobble
Top off fluids
pull the hubs, and repack all front wheel bearings, clean everything and reassemble
Install 4 new tires and wheels, 17 X 9 and 33"-12.50/R17 tires

Then drive it to my house
Then
Replace all fluids
Replace all rubber hoses, belts and lines under the hood
Remove that hideous bumper
Remove all lights, switches, wires, relays and everything that dodge didn't put on there
Do a massive cleaning/pressure washing, steaming/chem soak to get it clean
Remove the interior and clean and replace
Do something with the suspension
It needs 4 springs and 4 shocks
Then...???

The thing is, I need all of that done before I cut the D-Max apart because this truck is actually going to be my transportation while I build the 2011 truck...
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2014, 08:22:33 PM »
Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
That's cool a first generation cummins.

I think I found it at the last possible time in it's life to save it

It had been more or less abandoned by its owner and was sitting outside under a bunch of trees. It was getting rustier and started to leak water into the cab. The steering was all but gone. My money says it was about to be parted out for the Dana 60, Dana 70 and the Cummins 6bt instead of just fixing it.
I feel that by taking a sane approach and just rebuilding most things and upgrading the quirky stuff, I'll have an enormously capable truck that is actually a survivor truck. If I chose, it would fetch every penny I invested in it with no problem at all
But it needs immediate action, so it's getting it right now!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2014, 08:23:52 PM »
Note: there are dozens of post missing from original thread which were discussions of this and that.

I have edited the vast majority of that stuff out to condense the build to, well, the build!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2014, 08:26:46 PM »
While I am waiting for the steering to get fixed enough to safely drive that animal to home station, the parts accumulation has begun (As it always does!)
I already have the king pin rebuild kit. I am going to keep this one in the nylon factory bushings, where as the LML SAS is getting some cool Bronze bushings.

I am on the hunt for tires and wheels. I will only buy completely new and name brand stuff if I cannot locate good used stuff in a reasonable time frame.

I just ordered a Diamond 4" exhaust system, since the factory one is all but rotted off.
Here's the one I bought
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2014, 08:31:38 PM »
So the next acquisition will be the tires and wheels
I am looking for moderation and thrift.
Am even open to steelies and low end tires, or used tires/wheels.
I think a ton can be done with these trucks using middle grade stuff.
I have noticed there is not an abundance of tires in the 33 12.50R16 or 17 fitment.
There are however a bunch of 285/75R16 and 17 as well as 305/70 and 315/65 in both the 16 and 17 size. The more I think about it, that might be THE go to tire. It is right at 33" in diameter and there should be plenty around, as in in an emergency I could scarf them up. They are not huge so although they won't be able to roll over VW sized boulders, they should crawl over a Kia and the speed bumps down at the mall.
So, tomorrow it's time to get serious and lay some plastic down. It would be a berry, berry bad thing to have old square D all tightened up in the steering department only to find I can't drive it for lack of tires!
Yepper, better get on that one!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2014, 08:32:50 PM »
Well, I got the tires and wheels ordered
Again, my consideration is not for high end stuff, but "Real" parts that everyone can afford and not name brand necessarily.
Looking there. I purchased the Ion wheels in a respectable 16 X 8 size and Hercules DT tires in a 33" metric size, 285/75 R16
Tires were around $200 ea. and the wheels around $100 ea. The tires come with a free alignment and lifetime rotation and balance, so that takes care of that for the next few years!

I will get that utilitarian/ retro look and modern technology and low cost all woven together!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2014, 08:33:47 PM »
I just picked those same rims up for my truck. Love em and they are plastic dipped so I can keep the finish. Got mine for 250 for the set used.. No winters. Couldn't pass a deal like that up..

What's yr plans for interior and gauges? What exhaust will you run?


I just purchased the Diamond 4" exhaust w/muffler
For the interior, new everything, but basically stock
Piller gages I guess, EGT, Tach, Boost pressure...
Add a semi permanent GPS install
Work with the radio some
Change the color scheme over to dark gray or black sfrom the light gray it currently is.
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2014, 08:34:55 PM »
What are your plans for fuel and air? Gonna try to stay stock?

Definitely not!
I think the smart way of doing this is to set a goal.
I think I need 400-450 horsepower and a bit over a thousand pound/feet of torque.
Why I think I need that is based on what I envision the vehicle's weight to be which is anywhere from 6500 upward to 10,000 I need that amount of power for short sprints and pulls
So based on that 400ish number I will simply modify the pump, buy the turbo, select the injectors, modify the air intake and so forth.
I already purchased the 4" Diamond exhaust based on that assumption. 4" with a muffler should hopefully support 400 HP while keeping it quiet.

Keeping it quiet is something else I am planning to sort out. The 1st gen motors were rattle cans we all know. So other than using a muffler. I plan to sue sound absorption materials in the inner fenders in spots, in the cab and on various chassis places to try to destroy all harmonics and absorb a majority of the clatter. I plan to use dyna-mat, Lizard skin, felt, and wadding to get that done.
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2014, 08:35:52 PM »
You dog .... you get to do all the fun stuff .... this is exacty what I want to do! I have had my eye on one but I think i would have to incorperate the cost of a divorce into the cost of ownership! What did you pay for it?
I have been tinkering with alternative fuels for awhile, trying to get them to behave in modern CRD diesels, but the machanical injected cummins should be much easier to deal with. Most of my problems have been with fuel filters, I have convinced myself that most of the brands I have tried the paper (cellulose media) reacts with the WVO and B100 causing it to swell and block off. The WMO is much less hard on filters. I have had to run a stainless steel 10 micron mesh on my liberty crd for it to work right. just fyi for you when you start looking into multi fuel options.

I might have to get out of the multi fuel options for awhile and have some equipment for for sale, you mentioned 1000 mile range, I have a 90 gallon transfer tank that will fit shortbeds, and a bluegrass fuel system (google it) I might be willing to take a hit on.

I might have to live vicariously through you!


We can definitely deal on that fuel system

I did plan to run a fuel processing operation down on my farm. I can make 60 gallons a day with a $1400 unit, then just store it there. I thought of maybe setting up B100, B50, and B20. Use the 20 in the D-Max and the other grades in my dozer and Dodge and...

Ya know, divorce is too big a hill to climb...everyone gets killed...Well, you get to suffer a long time before getting killed...I definitely recommend against it! So maybe you just live through this thread and sa' live'!

Tell you what, let me know what you want done, and we'll see if we just can't do it here...Just keep it sane. Not going Coil-over wild on this one (Like I'm doing on the Combat-Max truck...
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2014, 08:36:42 PM »
Had a 1st gen two trucks up from me in the pulls last weekend crew cab with 8' bed with a 10" stack and it sounded awesome lol. I love seeing people bringing back the past and your def doing it the right way man I am pumped for you.

I think the truck, like the square K30's is a classic. When I think what I'd have investing in, say a new silvy gasser and doing a few nice things, I'd be knocking on 40K easy. Then over time that less capable truck would spiral down to be worth maybe 5K-7K in a few years time, or 17% it's original value. So I'd lose 83% of it's value or $33,200 over 5 years or an average of $553 a month!
See where I'm going with this?? So instead I buy a 91 Dodge Cummins for 4K that after fixing the tie rods, steering and a though cleaning could fetch 6K. I could walk away from this in a week and pocket more than a grand. But over the next 5 years I'll probably put another, say 10K into it not counting routine maintenance. That will yield a perfectly painted and new looking classic that will draw all the stares, bet better mileage then the Silvy, tow more, and should I decide to sell it, my 19K investment would easily fetch that or more. So cost of ownership would effectively be zero. On one hand I'd lose 33K on the other hand I'd break even or maybe even pocket a little. By my math that has me $14,000 ahead of the game. So from a cost perspective alone the Dodge screams "Great buy!"
But if I buy it and hack the living snot out of it, then I ruin the value, negating the value. That equals a pretty dumb idea and points to my plan to keep it tasteful, and really just very well maintained, while enhancing performance, handling, braking, drive comfort, range safety, and so forth.

So that's my reasoning behind the path I am taking, and juxtapose that over the current iffy US domestic situation, and a truck again is screaming to me that not only is it a survivor, but it could well make me and mine ones as well!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2014, 08:38:21 PM »
Pushing the ball downfield a foot at a time.
The wheels and tires came in.
ION 16 X 8 zero offset and the Hercules tires.

I couldn't wait to get them mounted, but Shannon over at Tire Discounters called to tell me they are ready for pickup.
I had them add the balance beads in lieu of balance weights and mount the white letters inside. I almost went WLO thinking of capturing that retro look, but I have to say, I didn't like it back then and I guess I still don't.

Here's they are:
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2014, 08:40:57 PM »
And the tires
And Duane for all of those of you who wondered what a really old Black Hawk pilot looks like
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2014, 08:42:00 PM »
Originally Posted by nmeyer414 View Post
The real question don is do you need glasses? I can understand those carfish boys but ?????????

Nate,
I definitely need glasses
For close up and especially nighttime
Funny Story
So one dark night I was in the gunship over around the punchbowl in southern Afghanistan. We were out doing a little, well, hunting and target practice if you get my drift.
We are listening to the radio as we always did, making periodic position reports and so forth when we hear someone if firing up the airbase with 107's. Well, I am like two mountain ranges to the north west and it's Scotty's turn flying so we both feel the need for speed and to get into the fight PDQ.
He says, "Don, give me a direct-toto Kandahar"
That means punch in the coordinates to Kandahar and hit the direct to button which will make the big bearing pointer needle point directly to Kandahar air field (KAF). I start looking all over that key pad but can't make out anything. Fearing I might enter coordinates for Ethiopia, I just keep fumbling around. Scotty finally says, "Can I have that direct to please!"
I still can't see a dammed thing so I look over my shoulder and immediately notice a dull glow in the night which is actually the airbase, some 50 miles away. "Scotty, go to the light," is all I could think of saying.
"Did you seriously just tell me to go to the light?" Inquired Scotty..."Yep, go to the light, we'll figure it out as we get closer!"
Well, we found KAF, didn't find the enemy, didn't get to shoot anything and I took a year long ribbing over that one!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2014, 08:42:51 PM »
Originally Posted by DIRTEEMAX View Post
I cant lie I'm a fan of the bumper too

Well, if you want it, come and get it
It soon will be going to the scrap yard
Get a few dollars out of it to use on a can of paint or something...

Just got the truck back home
Carried it on that trailer I heavily modified earlier in the summer.
Worked just fine...Towed along at 65 mph with no issues what so ever!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2014, 08:44:58 PM »
OK, I finally went over to the next county east of me and picked the thing up from the 4WD shop it was sitting at.
Here's pics of all that happening:
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2014, 08:51:46 PM »
I first cleaned all the trash out of everywhere
It was loaded
I filled a trash can, but the truck yielded all this good stuff
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2014, 08:53:27 PM »
Those manuals are factory service manuals for this truck...quite a score!

Then the pressure washing started. I know I started sometime around 1330. I know that when my frau came home sometime around 1645, I was still at it!

Yea. I was drenched, covered with grease spatter and about nasty as a human can be and not be attending the Ranger course!

But after all that cleaning and what looked like 50 pounds of dirt and grease, the truck looked essentially the same!

Anyway, here's pictures after much gnashing of teeth and overall suffering:
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2014, 08:57:27 PM »
And yes, I pressure washed the interior!
Hey, it's a Dodge...It ain't pretty, it just works

The whole thing looks a lot better actually.

This was step 1 of the cleaning process

Next will be removal of all the accessories to see how big of a pile I can get.

Step 3 will be another degreasing and detail cleaning where all the crap comes off the windows, the hoses get wiped down, heater cleaned out, seat and pad removed for cleaning.

After all that the truck should be ready for some new parts and the start of the reconditioning process.

I'm going for the area of a sheet of plywood covered to a depth of 6"!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2014, 08:58:09 PM »
OK, all you axle decoders

I found tags on both axles

The front was marked 3.54 (the gear ratio) and had the following two numbers: 52068190 and 610857

The rear has me puzzled

I don't know if it's a Dana 60 or a Dana 70

Both use the same cover. The front has a "60" cast into the iron webbing, but no such number is cast into the rear axle, or at least I couldn't find it just yet

In the tag affixed to the rear cover is the same 3.54 and the following two sets of numbers:

605509 (I think)
52068173

Inside the drivers door was the VIN and the tire and axle info.
It states the GVWR is 8510
Front axle is 4060
Rear axle is 6084

The transfer case is cast iron and has a tag denoting it is a 205
It bears the following number: 4428003
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2014, 09:00:36 PM »
From Shawn"

See item #3 Yours should have one too on that rear axle......

Hint: a lot of times taking a pocket knife and scraping off the years of dirt, grime and gear oil helps view it.
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2014, 09:01:32 PM »
From Shawn

I'll try my best off the top of my head, if you know I'm incorrect feel free to correct me. What I am describing is mostly traits of rear axle differences some of which applies to fronts as well.

70 has larger ring gear but I believe pinion diameter is the same. Tubes are larger on a 70 than a 60. Shafts in 70's are normally 35 spline but not always. Long story short from my experience 70's are the black sheep of the Dana family of axle when it comes to hubs, widths, seals & general configurations. It would be like gathering parts from Dons' & my shop to build a frankenmobile (well maybe more mine as I'm like your grandfather farmer who keeps everything & Don gives it all away when no longer in use). It seems there was little standard to them even in the same model & year of vehicle, not sure if this was because they ran short of some parts & decided to substitute with something else on the shelf? Or if they were possibly built in different plants? Swapping them from drum to disc brake can be challenging in the fact that making a standard swap kit is about impossible unless I include 3x as many parts as needed. I've helped guys swap a lot of them but they have to buy the hard parts locally as no telling what they have until they break it down. That's my 2 cents anyhow.

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Re: SquareD
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2014, 09:02:19 PM »
Originally Posted by nmeyer414 View Post
That thing is sweet looking! I think there is more metal in the body than on our d-max's combined.

I did see that don almost had to remove the side rails on the trailer just to get her on there. Good thing all of that side wall rubbing will he taken care of with the new shoe's.

I must say that it does not look beat on, but that is a rats nest of messy wiring under the hood.


Nate,

You know, it's not been beat on, just well used. The VE injection pump has never even been adjusted! It's just an old stocker, perfect for a build.

The rust is all manageable as you will see very soon as I dive in quickly on the worst areas to get all that neutralized.

There is indeed some metal in there but these trucks weigh around 6K whereas our D-maxes, 7500-8500. Big difference. The old Cummins trucks with smaller motors pushing less weight at less RPM all equate to outstanding mileage. This example runs in the low-mid 20's.

And that rat's nest will soon be just a distant bad memory!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2014, 09:04:15 PM »
OK Shawn,
I measured the axles up
Front has a 3 1/8" axle tube give or take

The rear has a 3.5" axle tube

I scratched all over that thing trying to get the BOM
All I got was this hazy number which might be correct, who knows?

M 931099 11B150 1NA
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2014, 09:05:48 PM »
Here's the U-joint pics
First is rear driveshaft, transfer case end, then the rear, then the front...as if you didn't know already
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2014, 09:07:34 PM »
There's a lot more cleaning yet to do.
I think the next step might be with a few gallons of Kerosene and let that set on there a day or three, then follow with some scrubbing then a degreaser.

The black stuff is mostly old undercoating, but there is still some hardened and stubborn grease hanging around in there!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2014, 09:09:16 PM »
These mismatched, bald, oversized and ugly tires measure in a bit over 34" tall resting on the ground. Give a little for sidewall bulge, while carrying the weight of the vehicle and they would probably measure up 34.5"ish

The new 285/75R16's measure in at 32.8" which I think will be a good match for this truck
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2014, 09:10:09 PM »
I had the sled dog in with me to help check out things. I think she has her doubts about those brake calipers!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2014, 09:11:14 PM »
Originally Posted by stlaser View Post
So the rear is a 70 & those flimsy straps need to take a hike along with those rear drums....


Shawn,

If I convert to rear discs how do I do that and still get a parking brake that works?
I know how I did it before...
I ran the brake line into the console and installed a valve.
Press on the brakes close the valve and there you go!
That's how aircraft parking brakes work BTW...
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2014, 09:14:16 PM »
From Shawn:

That's probably the best way or you can purchase a set of 76-78 caddy rear el dorado calipers from my guy. & yes you can still buy the from any local auto parts store but they are minus the actuator brackets & needed adjusted. Gm no no longer has them in stock to sell. My guy has them laser cut & formed from an unmentionable source  then he bolts them in and adjusts the calipers prior to shipment. The other downside of these is that you will probably need new cables but I have a really good source for those as well.

On a side note though, you live in ky why do you need a parking brake? There's definitely no vehicle inspections there, heck you don't even have to run plates or tail lights on trailers down your way!
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2014, 09:14:37 PM »
Found a cool link.
If you want information on the build codes for your Dodge Ram, then copy and paste the following link onto your browser. The site provides a contact tab where you fill in the basic information about your vehicle and Dodge will in turn send you the exact build sheet for that vehicle.

I just did so, since I am having problems figuring out the information in my heavily weathered build tag



Contact Dodge
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2014, 09:16:24 PM »
From a member:

Great thread, I'm really going to be looking forward to seeing it develop. I have a big soft spot in my heart for 12Vs and the square Dodges. I know you're still in the research phase so I'll throw my $0.02 in on auto vs. stick. When it comes to transmissions, especially behind diesels that are meant to work, overkill is the only way. Yes, a tune up, band adjustment and a big ole cooler would probably get you by... but is that enough for you? If I understand the use case for this truck "probably get you by" is never enough. I understand this truck doesn't have to be on the "great" side of the Sears scale, but that should apply to cosmetics, creature comforts and the like only.

If it comes down to this truck being the difference for you and yours that means things are really, really bad. The D'max would be down for electronic reasons presumably and you are not going to want a questionable transmission on your mind. So with 400-450HP and 1k TQ to deal with that means a ~5k build on the auto to know it's bullet proof. That is a huge chunk of your overall budget. You also still can't push-start it. I think the NV4500 gone through to fix 5th is the way to go. A South Bend clutch and you'll be good.

I do understand and generally agree with the point about having to shift if you're runnin' and gunnin'. But I don't think I need to tell you that the driver is the least effective gunner in any vehicle. If you do need to be the one to go to the trigger as the driver you're going to want to hold a steady speed and course anyway to have a chance at a decent shot. I think it's safe to say that if you're in a situation where you have to downshift a 1k TQ Cummins to maintain speed you're not in a situation to shoot anyway. The interesting thing to me about this argument is the idea of having your kin drive so you can gun. I'm a firm believer that anybody you love and care about that is old enough to be capable of driving (notice I didn't say old enough to legally drive) should be capable of driving a stick. To me that comes down to not having to limit your options when it comes to vehicles if it all goes to hell, and I think that applies to your stable. If you were going to trust anybody enough to be driving under duress in an off/bad road situation that type of person will be capable of driving a stick with some training.
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2014, 09:17:17 PM »
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjZ06 View Post
Great thread, I'm really going to be looking forward to seeing it develop. I have a big soft spot in my heart for 12Vs and the square Dodges. I know you're still in the research phase so I'll throw my $0.02 in on auto vs. stick. When it comes to transmissions, especially behind diesels that are meant to work, overkill is the only way. Yes, a tune up, band adjustment and a big ole cooler would probably get you by... but is that enough for you? If I understand the use case for this truck "probably get you by" is never enough. I understand this truck doesn't have to be on the "great" side of the Sears scale, but that should apply to cosmetics, creature comforts and the like only.

If it comes down to this truck being the difference for you and yours that means things are really, really bad. The D'max would be down for electronic reasons presumably and you are not going to want a questionable transmission on your mind. So with 400-450HP and 1k TQ to deal with that means a ~5k build on the auto to know it's bullet proof. That is a huge chunk of your overall budget. You also still can't push-start it. I think the NV4500 gone through to fix 5th is the way to go. A South Bend clutch and you'll be good.

I do understand and generally agree with the point about having to shift if you're runnin' and gunnin'. But I don't think I need to tell you that the driver is the least effective gunner in any vehicle. If you do need to be the one to go to the trigger as the driver you're going to want to hold a steady speed and course anyway to have a chance at a decent shot. I think it's safe to say that if you're in a situation where you have to downshift a 1k TQ Cummins to maintain speed you're not in a situation to shoot anyway. The interesting thing to me about this argument is the idea of having your kin drive so you can gun. I'm a firm believer that anybody you love and care about that is old enough to be capable of driving (notice I didn't say old enough to legally drive) should be capable of driving a stick. To me that comes down to not having to limit your options when it comes to vehicles if it all goes to hell, and I think that applies to your stable. If you were going to trust anybody enough to be driving under duress in an off/bad road situation that type of person will be capable of driving a stick with some training.

Anyway, keep it up and one vote for the stick!

-TJ


Good Discussion
I love it
Shawn on one side with his valid points
And in this corner, you with yours

Very good opposing views.

One thing I learned some years ago when I first started to become a person in charge (In command) was that I often did not make the best decisions. On one occasion Bill over here had the better idea, whereas the next time Rusty did. Bill erred on the side of caution whereas Rusty always went for the jugular. Came a time when I started crewing them together, pilot in command and co-pilot. It worked great! The killer always wanted to go, but the safety minded one caused him to pause and rethink some of his riskier decisions

Bottom line was that together they were superb...Sort of the same mix that develops on my threads. Dunno why, perhaps the subject matter is good enough to attract some thinkers, but whatever the reason, the dynamic it creates is constantly thrashing ideas, whilst bringing up various points to consider and I find myself at a comfortable and familiar spot at the helm making the final call. But no longer my call, but more of an "our call."

That's a good thing

A wise old Warrant Officer once told me well before I became something like that, was to always surround oneself with people smarter than yourself...
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2014, 09:17:45 PM »
I think I can conclude that the transmission choice is not made, but that an intermediate step would be to stay the course with patching up the existing unit, which to my knowledge works just fine and focus on the big picture

That big picture is to freeze further degradation in it's tracks, return it to a safe and serviceable condition, then slowly bring it back, modifying various things as I go along.
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2014, 09:19:10 PM »
From Cuddakid53:

Question based upon previous experience; how easy is it to bump/push start a Diesel?

Based upon the reliability of said answer, is that enough to pin the other rationalizations on, in making the decision?

My first Diesel was a 6.2 Chevy 1980's vintage with manual trans, 2WD. I remember trying to bump start it once living on a steady grade when battery went dead. Got it rolling and popes the clutch with key on and all it did was lock-up the rear wheels. Ended up lugging small generator down the block to it to jump it and go buy a new battery.

Were it up to me, I want the ease and less stress of pumping the clutch with the auto- build it right (like you always do Don) and you'll be good to go! Say you're shot in the leg/broke it/rolled ankle from running in sandals  or some other malady of the lower extremes- flop it in there and mash the peddle with the good one or a stick even and you'll move down the road!

Manly gear mashing is for "pleasure" driving, auto is for ease of operations or we'd all still mostly have manual trans. due to lower cost of production and higher mileage. There's a reason there are more auto trans. on the roads-

DOT signing off, heading for second cup o' Joe-
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2014, 09:19:30 PM »
Excellent point(s)

Pilots in my business mostly carried switchblade style knives!
Know why?
The thought was that you just crashed
Crashing oftentimes breaks things like landing gear, windshields arms and legs.
People in aircraft crashes sometimes become entangled in all the now loose wiring.
So let's say that although the broken windscreen has taken out an eye, an arm and something else. You are still strapped in and have hydraulic lines and wiring harness wrapping around your throbbing brain case group.
If you can get one hand on that knife and push a button, you can get it to open. You can then use it to cut the wires and whatever and get out before those sparks and fuel combine in the back to create some energy.

So the twisted ankle with the clutch pedal is a valid point indeed!

Now for the manual trans crowd I once had a stick shift F250 with a power stroke with a near dead battery. I rolled it down hill, stuck it in 3rd, popped the clutch and it fired right up. So I do and did realize that as a possibility.
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2014, 09:21:23 PM »
Got some work time in today after church and lunch.

I started out buying parts. Concentrating on the cooling system, I picked up all new hoses, clamps, fluid, and a new 8 rib belt...Yes, 8 rib!
THen I picked up the drag link and both tie rods.
THe plan this afternoon was to get the radiator flushed out and I even started doing that when I switched gears.
THe interior was wet when I purchased it and got even more so when I pressure washed it. Thinking of the rust that Duane discovered under the mat, I decided to just get on that first.
So everything came out of the interior first
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Re: SquareD
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2014, 09:24:41 PM »
Then using a variety of cleaners and several hours of scrubbing I had it all cleaned out.
I sprayed down everything from the windshield down...I need that thing clean and it was anything but
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