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Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #100 on: October 13, 2015, 11:43:45 PM »
what did the head run if you don't mind?
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #101 on: October 14, 2015, 11:03:58 AM »
  No problem, I got the head direct from Cummins $1235 + 65core  1 year warranty.

 Most machine shops in my area wanted anywhere from 550-750 just for the labor,  figure about 300-400 in parts(valves, guides, seats, springs, keepers, retainers, seals)  if you buy real Cummins parts to have everything replaced and 6month warranty.

  A couple shops quoted me $1250 for complete reman, and one well known "high performance" diesel shop quoted me $1350 + 800core for the same head Cummins was charging me $1235.

And a LOT of shops are really pushing the China heads price on those heads that are new are anywhere from 500-750.

Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2015, 11:21:58 AM »
THX, I saw those china heads and was wondering.
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #103 on: October 14, 2015, 11:37:18 AM »
Yes I asked a lot of questions about the China heads, I didn't hear anything bad about them.  That being said everyone I talked to said they were only running stock boost levels, and then the longevity issue comes into play  I don't want to have to do this every couple years.  Cummins dose have a Casting plant in China and they make heads for the engines made in China supposedly Cummins dose not bring those Castings to the US, the US gets the crappy castings from Brazil.  I hope mine holds up!!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #104 on: October 14, 2015, 11:59:20 AM »
I'm learning here...
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #105 on: October 14, 2015, 07:19:03 PM »
I hope its good things your learning!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #106 on: October 14, 2015, 09:08:21 PM »
I hope its good things your learning!
All learning is good depending on what you do with what you learned!

Didn't know the chinaman head deal. Actually thought all that was Mexican!
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #107 on: October 22, 2015, 05:32:51 PM »
No the rods for some of the Cummins BT6 are made in Mexico, and the gears are mostly from Mexico.  The rumor is that after Richard Nixon lander in China the second plane that landed had the Cummins Executive team on board.  I have never see a China Cummins casting for the larger items, but I have seen parts from everywhere else.
 

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2015, 06:50:04 PM »
I missed this thread and have read it all now.   Upto speed.   Looks like a great project and fun now and when finished!


Keeping the early morning rolling, the afternoon hours snoring, the late night hours feeling the powers.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #109 on: October 26, 2015, 09:43:49 PM »
Everything is back together and the truck is running good I took it on a 200mi shake down run and all looks good so far.   The engine runs about 10degrees cooler but I think that was because I retarded the timing from where I had it, also because of the timing is retarded I am still down on boost under full throttle my EGT creeps up to 1300 so I might have to bump the timing back up. 

The only issue I had is the OD quit working so once I got home I checked the TPS, sensor in the head, and the sensor in the transmission line, as a general rule the problem was were you were working and sure enough the sensor in the head seems to of died.  Its not an issue since it?s a switch so I just jumpered the plug and all is well OD works good again.

I post some pictures in a few.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #110 on: October 26, 2015, 09:53:15 PM »
Nothing as satisfying as a project completed with the desired outcome!
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Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2015, 03:29:16 PM »
Sounds good, pics are a must!!
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #112 on: October 30, 2015, 11:53:58 AM »
 Pictures are coming.

 I was looking thru my notebook this past weekend and I realized I have had the RC mobile for almost three years now.  I have went thru every major system and rebuilt or improved/enhanced to make them more dependable and have learned a lot thru the process. 

  I have put over 45K miles over that time and looking forward to the next 400K!!! and the only real complaint I have is the fuel mileage is not what I thought it would be, I think a taller tire will help that and since I am almost due for new rubber we will find out if that helps. 

I'm looking forward to rebuilding the bottom end of Cummins and 47RH this winter.   

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2015, 03:02:15 PM »
Ok not a lot to report on the side wrench side of the RC, its all back together and I have over 1000 miles on it since I have swapped the head.  I am still down on boost and I am not 100% sure it is because I backed off the timing or something else.  I need to do a pressure check on the intercooling plumbing and make sure I don?t have a problem there.   I am almost ready for new tires and I am pretty sure I am going with a 285/70/17 maybe a 295, most likely going to go with Goodyear MT/R.  Planning for an overland trip at the first of the year.

  I am also gathering up parts to rebuild the bottom end of the Cummins and the 47RH, I am thinking I will tear down the core over thanksgiving and get the block over to the machine shop to get checked out.

It was a great weekend for flying, this was one of the reasons I built the RC was to use it to get to some of the places we fly most are forest service roads and sometime they are not maintained but I?m glad I can throw six people in the RC with all of our equipment and go 99% of the places we need to get to!

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2015, 02:46:32 PM »
Ok so I cleaned up my work space and had a few min to take a look at the Cylinder Head I removed, I don?t know the exact mileage of this engine but its definitely over 300K.  I removed one intake and exhaust valve to look at the seats.  The exhaust valve was pretty bad and so was the seat the intake wasn?t horrible but showed wear.  The build up on the intake valve I am assuming is when someone was running BioDeisel thru it.

Both Valves were USA made, Federal Mogal were the supplier. 

 I would never run BioDiesel unless I had to!  When I had the IP apart for the 366 spring the inside of the pump looked pretty bad lots of corrosion and the injectors looked terrible inside lots of rust.

 I do not recommend BioDiesel.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #115 on: November 23, 2015, 09:30:06 PM »
Ok one of my local Pick_A_part's is closing its doors so it was half off day.  Out of all the years I have gone there I have NEVER seen a CTD truck in the yard with an engine until today it was an 89 D350 standard cab long wheel base.  I never really paid much attention to the "D" series
trucks but when I was looking over this very well used truck I saw something interesting the cross member had a bracket bolted just forward of the crossmember for the motor mount and the passenger side had something similar but it was riveted.  I always thought the Cummins bolted down on the crossmember.

  What was of some note was the frame between the control arm on the drivers side was cracked halfway thru and on the passenger side it was broken all the way thru.  The steering box area was fine I didn't see any cracks.

Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #116 on: November 23, 2015, 10:13:48 PM »
That is some serious cracking.

Now, whats this about no bio diesel? The old diesel is about the dirtiest stuff you can find.

What is clean or dirty of either?
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #117 on: November 23, 2015, 10:38:05 PM »
Im not saying it cant be run, I just don't think the lubricity is there with the USED organic or USED petrol(used motor oil/hydraulic fluid) based product.  Filtering and processing is key to using the used stuff, a lot of processing, filtering, additives to make it work, unless you can get lots of raw product for free and have the space and time to process the USED oil.  In a low power motor it might be fine, or stationary equipment no problem.  But as much as the parts for our trucks fuel systems are I don't see the advantage,     Diesel #2 looks real good IMO.

In an emergency I wouldn't have a problem running Bio-Diesel but I don't know what it would gain you long term.

Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #118 on: November 23, 2015, 11:38:27 PM »
I have run 20% in my 06 and it is quieter and gets better mileage.

The lubricity is gone now with ULSD. I run additives with the new stuff.
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #119 on: November 23, 2015, 11:57:43 PM »
Yes I would be more comfortable running 20%.  Don't know what the long term affects would be in the modern motor fuel systems.  Yep I run additives with all my motors now, new, and old.

Online OldKooT

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #120 on: November 25, 2015, 06:57:55 PM »
That cracking looks rather typical honestly.

I don't run Bio in my stuff, it's hell on everything from my experience. I run #1 or #2 or waste oil. Heating oil, Jet fuel, I just polished off 125 gallons of hyd fluid.

If I run #1 or #2 I run a quart of outboard mix oil each tank. I don't do additives, I see no need for them. If it's real cold I use Kerosene to thin the fuel, it's still the best anti gel made. 

Phil your head looks like it needs a little guide work. Pretty normal in a old Cummins. Patch I noticed had some antifreeze running down the pass side block coming from between the block and the head. The last 10k miles or so it's used about a gallon of coolant a month. I torqued the head bolts "tighter" and it has stopped for now. That engine just clicked over 429K so it's about due for a head job.
Norm

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Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #121 on: November 25, 2015, 08:51:35 PM »
Thats my additive to Norm. Cheap and affective.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #122 on: November 25, 2015, 09:56:08 PM »
That cracking looks rather typical honestly.

I don't run Bio in my stuff, it's hell on everything from my experience. I run #1 or #2 or waste oil. Heating oil, Jet fuel, I just polished off 125 gallons of hyd fluid.

If I run #1 or #2 I run a quart of outboard mix oil each tank. I don't do additives, I see no need for them. If it's real cold I use Kerosene to thin the fuel, it's still the best anti gel made. 

Phil your head looks like it needs a little guide work. Pretty normal in a old Cummins. Patch I noticed had some antifreeze running down the pass side block coming from between the block and the head. The last 10k miles or so it's used about a gallon of coolant a month. I torqued the head bolts "tighter" and it has stopped for now. That engine just clicked over 429K so it's about due for a head job.
Hey Norm,

Based on your experience which is pretty extensive from what I can see, how about posting a small recipe or chart or writeup or something of your fuel mixes.

I have used XPD since new, but my fuel gels every single winter. Never tried the kerosene formula. I have to wonder if the modified fuels will work the same in the modern peiso-electric super high pressure injectors the same as a dirt floor VE or P-Pump Cummins.

I see where you add a quart of 2 cycle outboard per fill up. 30 gal fill up?? More?
And how much kerosene per tank or gal perhaps?

I think this is some good useful information here.
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #123 on: November 25, 2015, 10:51:28 PM »
Hey Norm good to see you back, that head is the core and I don't know how many miles were on it.  I was just showing everybody what it looked like.  I put a remanned head from Cummins on the RC.

I do have a question for you Norm, are the Non-intercooled cams the same as the Intercooled cams in the first Gens?

Ok so I picked up one more Cummins short block core because the price was right.  I don't know if the block can be saved all the pistons were scuffed this motor was turned up pretty hard the head was off and water was setting the #6 bore but I got the crank to rotate without to much work also the gear for the vacuum pump had come off and chewed up the front cover a little.  The inside of the motor looks good.  The rod bearings were pretty hammered but the mains looked really good, so this block was an 12/88 manufacture so it was it was an early motor and just a few observations, the block as cast in Brazil as were the rods, the pistons, oil pump, rod and main bearings wee made in England.  The Crank was US made.  The timing gears were Mexican, German and USA.  the rod bolts and the main bolts were German.   

Once things slow down at work I will start on the overhaul of the Cummins and the 47RH, I think I have everything now to start the project.   

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #124 on: November 26, 2015, 07:31:43 AM »

That cracking looks rather typical honestly.

I don't run Bio in my stuff, it's hell on everything from my experience. I run #1 or #2 or waste oil. Heating oil, Jet fuel, I just polished off 125 gallons of hyd fluid.

If I run #1 or #2 I run a quart of outboard mix oil each tank. I don't do additives, I see no need for them. If it's real cold I use Kerosene to thin the fuel, it's still the best anti gel made. 

Phil your head looks like it needs a little guide work. Pretty normal in a old Cummins. Patch I noticed had some antifreeze running down the pass side block coming from between the block and the head. The last 10k miles or so it's used about a gallon of coolant a month. I torqued the head bolts "tighter" and it has stopped for now. That engine just clicked over 429K so it's about due for a head job.
Hey Norm,

Based on your experience which is pretty extensive from what I can see, how about posting a small recipe or chart or writeup or something of your fuel mixes.

I have used XPD since new, but my fuel gels every single winter. Never tried the kerosene formula. I have to wonder if the modified fuels will work the same in the modern peiso-electric super high pressure injectors the same as a dirt floor VE or P-Pump Cummins.

I see where you add a quart of 2 cycle outboard per fill up. 30 gal fill up?? More?
And how much kerosene per tank or gal perhaps?

I think this is some good useful information here.

Also interested in this, given my LML has all the modern injection pieces but no emissions. ( that stuff mysterious fell off in the driveway one day about 25,000 miles ago)


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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #125 on: November 26, 2015, 01:14:37 PM »
The cams should be the same between the two.

I buy the IH/Case blocks exclusively for my builds, call me un trusting LoL

Norm

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Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #126 on: November 26, 2015, 01:50:03 PM »
Norm, aren't the diff between the intercooled and nonIC just the injectors? I think timing is the same.

Actually those bearings look good for a HP-HM motor. Did many and inframe and lots came out like that. I see no scoring.

TO bad the 6BT doesn't use sleeves. 
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #127 on: November 26, 2015, 09:14:23 PM »
There are a few,

1.  Timing is different Non-IC is 1.40, IC is 1.20
2.  IP's are different the Non-IC have large pump head, the pump is longer(physically) if im not mistaken.
3.  The injection lines are different.
4.  The injectors on the Non-IC are 9mm and the IC are 7mm
5.  How the accessory's mount are different form Non-IC to IC
6.  Turbos were different on the later IC trucks.
7.  Throttle cable and kickdown are attached different
8.  Different style vacuum pumps.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #128 on: November 26, 2015, 09:38:07 PM »
Ok I finished the tear down of the second core, the rod bushing was starting to show wear but all looked good.  The thrust bearing is a three piece design it was in good shape but it shows signs of wear one of the "thrust" side was loose but was still in place.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #129 on: November 27, 2015, 01:52:41 PM »
That motor is in pretty good shape, considering it's age and use
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #130 on: November 27, 2015, 05:29:17 PM »
Yea it's a shame that someone melted the Pistons, but it would not of been in the pick a part if it was a running engine.  I only got it because all I had to do pull it was remove the two nuts for the motor mounts and then they came over and picked it with the forklift and set it down in the back of my truck.  Motor was really clean inside

I also found about a little more about first gen cummins cams,


The non-inter cooled cam has a slightly more aggressive profile, as the non-inter cooled injection pump has larger delivery valves, hence a bit more fuel then the inter cooled engine. When I say slight, it is slight though. The gear is the same but uses a different letter and position for pump timing. You can safely run either cam and gear in either motor, just have to line up the right letter on gear to crank for the proper pump timing.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 10:21:29 PM by wilsonphil »

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #131 on: November 27, 2015, 10:22:39 PM »
Ok so I had some spare time and I started the install of the OBA, I bought a 100% duty cycle air compressor and capable of 150psi and mounted it on the passenger side fender.  I had an old air cylinder that holds about 4 gal I haven't decided where I will mount it yet, I am thinking about under the floor back by the rear axel.  I had already install a relay and switch for the compressor I just have to plumb the lines and mount the brackets front and back for the quick disconnects.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #132 on: December 12, 2015, 12:33:40 PM »
Ok, finished the install of the OBA system.  Mounted the cylinder under the floor and installed two air couplers, one front and one back.  This compressor is capable of 150psi and is 100% duty cycle the compressor filled  the cylinder in about 3min.  They say you can run the compressor one hour hopefully I never will have a use for air for that long when I'm on the trail.

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #133 on: December 12, 2015, 12:44:58 PM »
Phill can you flatten a tire, re air it and use a stop watch for us? I have been debating compressor plans on a truck I am piecing together out of junk Dodge parts. I could use a York for OBA, but it's a lotta messing around on a Cummins.

Norm

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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #134 on: December 12, 2015, 12:48:46 PM »
Yep that's one of the things I plan on doing today!

Offline JR

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #135 on: December 12, 2015, 01:57:15 PM »
I need a tank too. Hmm HF has a 25% of right now and that big alum tank would fit nice,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #136 on: December 12, 2015, 04:02:45 PM »
I'm gonna fit a mini York on the dmax when I get time. I like the thought of having a "real" air compressor. I have an arb right now and it's pretty loud, and draws a bunch of power, but gets the job done on the air bags.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #137 on: December 13, 2015, 12:39:27 PM »
Phill can you flatten a tire, re air it and use a stop watch for us? I have been debating compressor plans on a truck I am piecing together out of junk Dodge parts. I could use a York for OBA, but it's a lotta messing around on a Cummins.


Norm,

A 265/70/17 tire completely deflated, it takes this pump just under 5min to inflate the tire to 40psi.  Not fast by any means but not horrible either.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #138 on: December 13, 2015, 12:44:48 PM »
I'm gonna fit a mini York on the dmax when I get time. I like the thought of having a "real" air compressor. I have an arb right now and it's pretty loud, and draws a bunch of power, but gets the job done on the air bags.

The only reason I don't do a York or Holset type compressor is because I don't want something else that is attached to my engine to give me problems.  I am always far away from home with the RC so it just some thing that can give problems at the worst possible time.  Also I carry two spare tires when I'm going back country.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 02:54:39 PM by wilsonphil »

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #139 on: December 13, 2015, 08:35:51 PM »
Before I did something I would later regret I decided to leak check the intercooler system on the RC before I pulled the turbo for a rebuild.  I have been down on boost pressure and I have ruled out everything but the Turbo and intercooler plumbing.

I made up a pretty simple test tool, I just got some schedule 40  PVC and fittings disconnected the intake and the turbo and pressurized it to 30psi or at least tried.  I found several leaks, the boots were leaking even though the clamps were tight and the hoses were good, the clamps were all tight they were not tight enough.  After I got them tightened the intercooler has given up the ghost also.

Pretty bad leaks in a couple different spots so now I will try to find a factory intercooler, I really don't want to runn an after market unit if I don't have too.

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #140 on: December 13, 2015, 08:39:41 PM »
That sucks. How much pressure did you test it with?

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #141 on: December 13, 2015, 08:42:33 PM »
I put the dual 440C Viair compressors on my Dually for on board air.  Drives a 5 gallon tank at 175PSI.  Runs air actuated bottle jack when needed, inflates tires, train horn and air bags.

I want an OBA system for the LB7.  I'd be curious to try a york compressor but I don't know specs on volume and pressure compared to an electric..
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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #142 on: December 13, 2015, 09:15:29 PM »
That sucks. How much pressure did you test it with?

I went up to 30psi, but the intercooler leaks bad at 10psi.  This I hope explains why I am only getting 20psi of boost! 

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #143 on: December 13, 2015, 09:17:01 PM »
You're talking about a pump, that has a piston the size of a Briggs and Stratton, and like an actual air compressor....oil lubricated. They have volume, durability, capable of 300+psi, and since it's belt driven, raising engine rpms raises volume. Downside? Not easy to do, takes up engine compartment space, etc.

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #144 on: December 13, 2015, 09:19:07 PM »
I went up to 30psi, but the intercooler leaks bad at 10psi.  This I hope explains why I am only getting 20psi of boost! 

Well, it would definitely be the place to start! lol

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #145 on: December 13, 2015, 09:22:14 PM »
I put the dual 440C Viair compressors on my Dually for on board air.  Drives a 5 gallon tank at 175PSI.  Runs air actuated bottle jack when needed, inflates tires, train horn and air bags.

I want an OBA system for the LB7.  I'd be curious to try a york compressor but I don't know specs on volume and pressure compared to an electric..

I'm running a single Viair 450, I only need it to reinflate tires incase I have to air down.  The Yords are a lot of work to install, engine driven, and very capable system but way over kill for what I need it for.  If you had BIG tires and didn't want to wait all day its the way to go.

Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #146 on: December 13, 2015, 09:23:12 PM »
I went up to 30psi, but the intercooler leaks bad at 10psi.  This I hope explains why I am only getting 20psi of boost! 

Well, it would definitely be the place to start! lol

Pretty much!

Online OldKooT

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #147 on: December 14, 2015, 08:01:54 AM »
JB weld?  LoL

I am glad you found that issue. Now all you need is a inter-cooler and your back in business.

That tester is pretty slick, much simpler than going to the car wash and spraying things down with fruity smelling soap while your wife floors the Cummins looking for bubbles.
Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #148 on: December 14, 2015, 10:32:46 AM »
JB weld?  LoL

I am glad you found that issue. Now all you need is a inter-cooler and your back in business.

That tester is pretty slick, much simpler than going to the car wash and spraying things down with fruity smelling soap while your wife floors the Cummins looking for bubbles.
Hey man, don't laugh...I currently have not one but two JB weld repaired intercoolers. The one on the John Deere that was harpooned by a locust tree, and the one on Square D. Now granted the Square D one hasn't retained any pressure other than atmospheric, but it sure looks strong!
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Online stlaser

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Re: Ramcharger Build
« Reply #149 on: December 14, 2015, 10:38:57 AM »
Hey man, don't laugh...I currently have not one but two JB weld repaired intercoolers. The one on the John Deere that was harpooned by a locust tree, and the one on Square D. Now granted the Square D one hasn't retained any pressure other than atmospheric, but it sure looks strong!

At the rate you're going that JB weld on SQ D should last for several hundred years anyhow....... ???
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