REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Build Threads => Topic started by: Dustoff35 on September 19, 2014, 11:16:51 AM
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Here we go. For quite some time, I had been looking for a 70's - 80's, relatively rust-free, crew-cab truck. Ford, Dodge or GM, it didn't really matter. My objective was (and still is) to put a cummins diesel into it, either a 6BT or 4BT. I avoided local trucks as they were anything but rust-free. I searched CL in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado's western slope, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas. I even flew out to look at a few trucks. I eventually found what I was looking for a little over 100 miles away, in Indiana. These pictures I took when I drove to Indianapolis to look at it for the first time. Here it is:
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Waiting to see where this build goes.
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If you think I am detail oriented, I believe you will see a whole other level of thoughtful construction with Duane's build
Hey, anyone know where that piece is I wrote describing Duane??
Could you post it here to start off right and DOT up his thread right from inception?
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subd ...... oh wait, that's not an option yet.
For a site that is not open yet, we seem to be hummin' right along! Welcome aboard!
FYI, there is a "NOTIFY" button at the top of every thread, use that instead of posting "subd" - OW_09
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Hey, anyone know where that piece is I wrote describing Duane??
Could you post it here to start off right and DOT up his thread right from inception?
Payback, Eh, Don? Considering the DOT havoc wreaked by myself and others on your D-Max thread, I figure I have it coming...
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Haven't started the build yet but have a mat on the garage floor to wipe your feet before entering the truck, I see what you mean Don.
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Finally going to see Duane's build, wow, can't wait. ...just don't let Don help with painting anything (that can be seen by us)!!
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After the seller and I negotiated a fair price and closed the deal, I decided to have the truck transported to my house rather than try to drive it home. It was snowing at the time and I didn't want the truck subjected to road salt on the 100+ mile journey. It turned out to be a good decision for more reasons than just road salt avoidance...
About 4 days later, the truck arrived on a roll-back.
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Hey, anyone know where that piece is I wrote describing Duane??
Could you post it here to start off right and DOT up his thread right from inception?
Payback, Eh, Don? Considering the DOT havoc wreaked by myself and others on your D-Max thread, I figure I have it coming...
You most certainly do!
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Haven't started the build yet but have a mat on the garage floor to wipe your feet before entering the truck, I see what you mean Don.
Get's way better (Worse)
Duane, you're about to be found out!
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Just thought of something
I get to be a DOT on my own site!
So folks lets remember the PDRTBTP Ratio (Proper DOT response to Build Thread Posts) of 3:!
Need a ROLMAF here
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If you think I am detail oriented, I believe you will see a whole other level of thoughtful construction with Duane's build
Hey, anyone know where that piece is I wrote describing Duane??
Could you post it here to start off right and DOT up his thread right from inception?
Sorry Duane,but the boss asked and he shall receive.(for a second time I might add)
Don, I couldn't copy the page, so hopefully the link works.
http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/diesels/236098-12-valve-dodge-survival-truck-build-thread-149.html#post5335633
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Thanks Ken, that's perfect!
Here it is for the rest of you common rabble:
Duane, my friend:
For those of you who don't know Mr. Duane and that's everyone, well allow me to splain a few things.
Duane looks at everything as he is examining a new ailen life form. He is detailed oriented to the point I feel like beating him after discussing how to tighten a bolt.
You see, I just tighten it. Duane reads and studies the metallurgy. Was it Brazilian iron or melted down jap kars?? He learns about the company that zinc washed the thing, and finds the unit price the manufacturer paid for it, adjusted for cost of living of course. He then calls a few people, posts up in some bolt forum, and builds a folder with all the information he can on the thing. Me, well, by now I'm glassy eyed and thinking of a second way of killing myself after listening to him and watching this magnificent waste of time!
Now satisified that he knows enough about this bolt and how it might be viewed by changing EPA and OSHA standards, he selects a torque wrench.
His are sterlized in an autoclave and calibrated by NASA. They are manufactured using a secreative process developed after WW2, by captured German scientists and prayed over by tibetan Buddist monks.
After consulting his Almanac for the exact time of the day when the solar system is at the greatest point of balance and the air quality is optomized, he selects his operating room attire and enters the temperature controlled environment of his garage where nary a single microbe that he doesn't know about survives. The item to be bolted together is placed on a dead flat New Zealand granite plate and aligned to true north. The wrench approach angle is calculated and he brings the torque wrench to with 1.565432345" of the bolt. After controlling his breathing and checking the room temp to be an even 68.385 degrees he places the wrench onto the bolt head.
About this time I open the door, trip, spilling my sweet tea all over the floor, and Duane passes out due to a sudden heart stoppage. I walk slowly over to the defibulator hanging on the wall and examine it. Thinking Duane's still pretty young, I make a call or two to some buddies, then finally walk over to his corpse, forgetting all about the defib thing I just kick him in the chest. Works every time, He just wakes up with a sore chest and a bruise and I feel a little better as well.
We then forget all about that bolt and take off to a nearby gun shop. His wife calls us seventy three times, I listen to one hundred forty six "Yes Dears," and we do guy stuff the rest of the afternoon.
No sir, you don't want to see any of his tools, garage or anything else. He never actually can get to the point where he finishes anything! And then there are his vehicles, which for some reason, to my knowledge, he has never ever washed...Really!
Black hawk pilots...
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Sweet looking power wagon! You don't see one of those everyday.
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Nice Duane! ;)
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^^^There's Ash!
Avatar's sideways bro
Texas thing?
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Well i stumbled upon this gem today on craigslist...i immediately thought of this build.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4775238031.html
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Well i stumbled upon this gem today on craigslist...i immediately thought of this build.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4775238031.html
It looks pretty nice. Its on an early 1990's chassis, 12v cummins, 5-speed. He wants $20,000. Here are some pics of it in case the link goes dead:
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OK, time to start updating on my Power-wagon.
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While the truck did start when I first looked at it in Indianapolis, it started hard and the carburetor float bowls had to be filled or I'm sure it would have overheated the starter or run the battery down. We never brought it up to full operating temperature as it was started inside a large building and the exhaust gasses were building up pretty fast in the enclosed space. I figured it probably needed a good basic tune-up and maybe a carburetor rebuild kit. No big deal, I can do that.
Once the roll-back truck unloaded it and departed, I took my son for a short ride in it down our 1/2 mile long driveway. By the time we got back, steam was rolling out of the hood. I found several pinhole leaks that were misting out of the radiator, creating a fog of steam and coolant. Great. New radiator also. Interestingly enough, the radiator was original to the truck as were the heater hoses and clamps.
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At this point, I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do with the truck. No real mission statement. I explored the possibility of running it on propane or dual-fuel. I even went so far as to pick up a purpose-built DOT approved (HA-HA!) 35 gallon tank setup I found in Indiana on Craigslist. The propane system had been installed on an F-150 that was a fleet vehicle for some utility company out of Texas. After an ECU malfunction, the 2nd owner of the F-150 decided to pull the propane setup and just run on gas. I bought the system mainly for the nice in-bed tank setup , lines and fuel-door refill port.
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Ultimately, I decided I didn't want to use propane or the gas engine for that matter. The propane system went to a good home, Sean, aka stlaser. Not sure what his plans are for it. Sean?
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Sure you can find an oil burner for that but propane would be a great addition.
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Can't you run propane in accompaniment the diesel you're planning on running? Doesn't it cause you to have better mileage out of the diesel? That's what I've heard, as there is a shop up here advertising something along those lines.
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Can't you run propane in accompaniment the diesel you're planning on running? Doesn't it cause you to have better mileage out of the diesel? That's what I've heard, as there is a shop up here advertising something along those lines.
I don't know. I'll look into it at some point.
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Propane in a diesel is like nitrous in a gas motor...simply no need at all for a "truck"
Now having said that, water and alcohol injection is healthy for the diesel both reducing combustion gas temp which makes the motor live longer and easily adding 100 ft/lbs of grunt.
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My immediate objective was to get it up and running and operable at least. Out went the old radiator, in went new belts and hoses. No more coolant leaks.
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Off came the carburetor, a Rochester Quadrajet. It has been a few years since I rebuilt a carb, so I found a guy on youtube who went through the entire process step by step. He actually rebuilt the same Mopar model Q-jet that I had.
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Disassembly and Cleaning. There was a lot of scale and dirt buildup in the float bowls and the power-valve was seized in the bore.
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Re-assembly.
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Wow, its been years since I touched one of those, my elky has one.
Speaking of the elky, the darn thing stopped and won't start. Pretty sure its the ignition module.
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AWESOME another crew cab build, I really like seeing these old trucks being built!
That one looks really clean. Take it from me whatever you had to give for it and if it's a clean/rust free as it looks your a many dollars ahead when it comes time to paint it if you do. I spent quite a bit, A LOT, of money on my paint body work. The only original sheet metal on my crew cab is the two front fenders and rear two doors, everything else has been replaced by donor parts I gathered up. That is including the cab as well.
Good luck with the build and I will be watching to see what you do with the truck.
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AWESOME another crew cab build, I really like seeing these old trucks being built!
That one looks really clean. Take it from me whatever you had to give for it and if it's a clean/rust free as it looks your a many dollars ahead when it comes time to paint it if you do. I spent quite a bit, A LOT, of money on my paint body work. The only original sheet metal on my crew cab is the two front fenders and rear two doors, everything else has been replaced by donor parts I gathered up. That is including the cab as well.
Good luck with the build and I will be watching to see what you do with the truck.
Thanks. The truck is as clean as it looks and very original. I have followed your build on Diesel Truck Resource and you are doing a great job!
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Here is the finished carb back on the truck. It runs much better now but it really needs a manual choke.
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Getting the same done on both my 91 subs. 1500 won't start (think the alarm disabled the pump) but the 2500 runs great.
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Duane-
Might it run better if you hooked up the air cleaner to the exhaust manifold which supplies warm air off the exhaust to the engine when the vaccum valve on the Snorkle closes?
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Reminds me of the engine compartment of my 72 Wag. you could sit on the inner fender and work on the motor. Good find there Duane.
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Now if we can just get him to post a little!
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Now if we can just get him to post a little!
Sorry guys, a local issue has been dominating a good bit of my time lately. For me, it spooled-up right about early July of last year. Even Don has become involved, though he seems to manage to get more truck-time in than I do... :-[
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Duane-
Might it run better if you hooked up the air cleaner to the exhaust manifold which supplies warm air off the exhaust to the engine when the vaccum valve on the Snorkle closes?
You are probably right, I didn't think of that. Too many years of working Fuel injected stuff I suppose. I will probably just flip the air-clceaner lid (remember that old trick from the '70s & '80s?) I don't want to put much more time or $$$ into a power plant that will ultimately be removed.
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Yes, remember that trick to the extreme- had a 1970 AAR Cuda that had the stock, functional fiberglass hood with front facing scoop, feeding a "six pack"...........oh how I miss that car!
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Yes, remember that trick to the extreme- had a 1970 AAR Cuda that had the stock, functional fiberglass hood with front facing scoop, feeding a "six pack"...........oh how I miss that car!
So that's where CUDAkidd comes from!
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Yes, remember that trick to the extreme- had a 1970 AAR Cuda that had the stock, functional fiberglass hood with front facing scoop, feeding a "six pack"...........oh how I miss that car!
So that's where CUDAkidd comes from!
Actually comes from my father and I dirt track racing- he started one year racing a 'Cuda, announcer pegged him "Cudaman". The next year he built a new 'Cuda and I took over the old one and was pegged "Cudakidd" and we gave the Bow tie boys grief...........and NO, the AAR's were not used for the dirt!
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I finally decided what direction to go in regards to drivetrain. The 360/727 is going to come out in favor of a 12valve-5speed setup. This means that I will need to upgrade the axles; the D60 rear end and D44 front end will not hold up. Time to start looking for a donor truck…
After a few weeks of searching I came across a Craigslist ad for a complete '92 D250 chassis. It had a 12v, Getrag 5speed, NP205, D60 king-pin front axle and a D70 rear axle. I made the call and Dan and I went to look at it.
After starting the motor which had sat for almost a year, we agreed on a price and Dan and I went to pick up Don's trailer.
A loaded D250 chassis is rather heavy, too much for us to push onto the trailer. Fortunately, there was a track-loader nearby...
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Nice find!! I am thinking of a P pump motor I found a couple hours south, just $1500 and it has video of it running. Only issue is 300k miles on it and cash flow with the taxes!!
Is there a 14bt going in the back??
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You guys down there have all the fun. And I'm up here drinking coffee and looking at the snow..
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Looks to me like you have a very nice crew, and now a solid drivetrain. Now the fun part begins.
What is your plan for the clutch pedals/firewall modifications?
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Very nice find on the donor!!
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It had a Getrag 5speed
Duane, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you a main proponent to sticking with the automatic in D2 ? Why the 5 spd? DOn't get me wrong I think a 5 spd will be awesome in the truck, I'm just wondering and I can't remember if you were pro or against the manual in respect to D2, so I was wondering..
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Is there a 14bt going in the back??
That is the plan…
The chassis came with two "spare" D70 axles… I wonder why?
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What is your plan for the clutch pedals/firewall modifications?
Good question. There is a shop in Bardstown, KY that specializes in Dodge cummins parts and trucks. They have donor vehicles on their lot and said that they have what I need to convert from auto to manual trans. I'm sure I will be making several trips down to Bardstown as the project moves along.
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It had a Getrag 5speed
Duane, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you a main proponent to sticking with the automatic in D2 ? Why the 5 spd? DOn't get me wrong I think a 5 spd will be awesome in the truck, I'm just wondering and I can't remember if you were pro or against the manual in respect to D2, so I was wondering..
I may have been an automatic transmission advocate but probably because it was already in place. If the chassis I bought had an auto, that's what I would be using. Each setup has its own advantages / disadvantages in my opinion.
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What is your plan for the clutch pedals/firewall modifications?
Good question. There is a shop in Bardstown, KY that specializes in Dodge cummins parts and trucks. They have donor vehicles on their lot and said that they have what I need to convert from auto to manual trans. I'm sure I will be making several trips down to Bardstown as the project moves along.
There are many schools of thought on the best/simplest/cleanest way to do the firewall mods. Depending on your time frame, I will make sure to well document how I do ours. I Should be at the stage in a month or so hopefully.
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These builds and their write-ups are just a treasure of information. Some of it brilliant, and novel and some of it old stuff that just needs to see the light of day once again for this generation.
Mod on!
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Here is one of the D70 axles that came with the chassis.
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Unloading the trailer.
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If those 70's aren't already all wore out... sell them quick LoL
If one happens to be a Power lock equipped model, sell me that one LoL
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The chassis came with two "spare" D70 axles… I wonder why?
Field expedient exercise equipment?
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If those 70's aren't already all wore out... sell them quick LoL
If one happens to be a Power lock equipped model, sell me that one LoL
If it needs a rebuild, we just released forged chrome moly internals for the P/L.
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After rolling the chassis off of the trailer, I spent the next 3-4 hours wrestling with it to get it up the driveway and parked next to the garage. The combination of the weight of the chassis, the lighter weight of the tractor, the need to deploy a vicegrips on the steering box to move the front wheels and the fact that the rear axle has a spool all combined to almost ruin me, the tractor, the chassis and the driveway. It was a constant dance, chock wheels, reposition tractor, reattach chains, move steering box shaft, tow 3 feet, chock wheels, repeat…
My wife must have been watching all of this. After the tractor slid down the driveway and almost flipped over for the second time, she came out, stern look on her face and said, "Where is ____? Wasn't he supposed to help you with this today?"
"Well, he couldn't make it and I have to get this thing moved today or that trailer is going to sink into the front yard over the next 4 days due to the forecasted rain."
She shook her head, climbed onto the tractor and we finished pulling the chassis up the hill and got it parked next to the shop without incident. She made sure that it was positioned so that she would not have to see it when she drove up to the house or looked out any of the windows.
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After rolling the chassis off of the trailer, I spent the next 3-4 hours wrestling with it to get it up the driveway and parked next to the garage. The combination of the weight of the chassis, the lighter weight of the tractor, the need to deploy a vicegrips on the steering box to move the front wheels and the fact that the rear axle has a spool all combined to almost ruin me, the tractor, the chassis and the driveway. It was a constant dance, chock wheels, reposition tractor, reattach chains, move steering box shaft, tow 3 feet, chock wheels, repeat
My wife must have been watching all of this. After the tractor slid down the driveway and almost flipped over for the second time, she came out, stern look on her face and said, "Where is ____? Wasn't he supposed to help you with this today?"
"Well, he couldn't make it and I have to get this thing moved today or that trailer is going to sink into the front yard over the next 4 days due to the forecasted rain."
She shook her head, climbed onto the tractor and we finished pulling the chassis up the hill and got it parked next to the shop without incident. She made sure that it was positioned so that she would not have to see it when she drove up to the house or looked out any of the windows.
And yes, I should have been there
Not being there was a mistake...
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^^That's OK. It all worked out.
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Self confession: I was a lousy friend on that day. Duane asked me previously to help him download the chassis off my trailer which he had borrowed. I said that I would
Then on the faithful day, I believe I had plans to get some work done on SquareD I think so I told him I was busy.
Well then all that business happened over at his place and the rest is history.
In my sorry defense I thought he was only going to lift and roll it off onto the ground and nothing more. I didn't realize he was downloading in the bottom of the driveway then going diagonally across the property. Had I known, I would have encouraged him to get the trailer a lot closer to the garage, but that doesn't matter because I was not there.
In retrospect, I was selfish and placed what I wanted over a friend's needs and that is downright sorry. I should have done the right thing, but I didn't, so all I can do from that is to learn, and from that lesson, hopefully I did!
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:o
^^Okay… Enough with the self-flagellation…^^
With the chassis tucked away out of the wife's line-of-sight. I began taking a closer look at those D70 axles. One was out of a Gen2 and was a few inches wider, had larger drum brakes and a factory LSD of some type. The other was a rather complete Gen1. The axle the chassis was sitting on had no brakes and had either a spool or welded spider gears.
I decided to sell the Gen2 and rebuild the Gen1 axle. I called a few guys I knew were always on the lookout for dodge truck parts. The Gen2 axle went right away. Part cash, part trade for a Gen1 diesel radiator support, which I have been told is different than the radiator support on my gas motor '75.
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The Gen1 radiator support...
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Looks like a good score. Are you going to run inter cooled then? OEM or?
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Looks like a good score. Are you going to run inter cooled then? OEM or?
You're thinking what I am thinking
Stock...or that core support isn't going to look like that for long!
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Well a stock IC will handle a moderately warmed Cummins. Up to about 250hp or so unless towing real heavy, a stock IC works fairly well. My daily driver runs around 300hp on a stock IC with no real issues and it tows 6-8000lbs quite often. But I do have a 60mm wheel on it and a 14Cm exhaust housing which helps.
On Kay's Ramcharger I used a power stroke IC. It fits fairly well, dropped EGT's considerably, but it doesn't leave much room for AC condenser. I think with a aftermarket aluminum radiator and some fab work, I could wedge a condenser in there. But very little core support mods are required for the PS IC.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZjA9zko.jpg)
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I'm not sure if I am going to go with the stock 1st Gen intercooler or the PS I/C route.
I have two 1st Gen intercoolers and one 1st Gen radiator core support. I have been told if I am going to modify for a larger I/C to use the gas motor rad support. Apparently, the 1st Gen core supports command $$$.
Air conditioning is a mandatory item, so I need to ensure a locale for the condenser.
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Air conditioning is a mandatory item, so I need to ensure a locale for the condenser.
^^^^^^^^^^YOU AREN'T KIDDIN'^^^^^^^^^^^ ::)
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Back to rear Axles and other stuff.
As I began disassembling the other D70 axle I quickly learned that it was in worse shape than I thought. It must have spent some time lying on the ground, as the drums and internals were rust to the point of disintegration. I pulled the cover and found that the ring gear had broken teeth, metal chips were distributed throughout the axle internals. Time to bail on the two remaining D70s.
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As I was working on the axles, I decided to build a small electrolytic rust removal system. The benefit to electrolytic rust removal is that parts (made from ferrous materials: iron, steel) can be de-rusted and cleaned without damaging threads, stampings and the like. Only the rust is removed, none of the base material.
I built a tank by cutting one of those blue plastic drums in half. I then built an anode cage from some copper wire and carbon gouging rods I bought from Grainger.
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I filled the vessel, added some sodium carbonate or washing soda. It can be found in the laundry detergent aisle at your local grocery store. Arm & Hammer Washing Soda is what I used. Suspend the part you are cleaning in the solution and attach your battery charger; positive to the anode, negative to the part. I used a low setting on the charger.
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Here is how it turned out.
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In hindsight, this was a pretty difficult part for my first attempt. You need "line of sight" from the anode array to the surface of the part. This backing plate has a lot of recesses and required frequent turning during the process.
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This is an old Wilton vise I picked up at an auction a couple of years ago. It was rusty and coated with some tar-like substance which looked like someone tried to burn off with a torch:
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That is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while! I've heard of it, just not witnessed it.
It even took the tar like stuff off?
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Ingenious!
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How long does it take to clean stuff? I know it'll vary but ballpark figure.
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That is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while! I've heard of it, just not witnessed it.
It even took the tar like stuff off?
The tar and paint did come off. Anything stuck to the rust flakes right off, if its adhered to good clean metal, a little scraping may be required. I cleaned some parts for Dan that were painted onto clean metal and the paint bubbled and came off in sheets.
Google electrolytic rust removal, lots to read. In one example, I read where they excavated a pit, lined it with plastic sheeting and de-rusted an entire frame.
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How long does it take to clean stuff? I know it'll vary but ballpark figure.
A lot of factors to consider, how thick is the rust, how clean is your solution…
I'd say the vise took 4 hours with one repositioning of the part. The brake backing plate around 6 hours with repositioning 3 or 4 times.
Cleaning grease and oils from the parts prior to de-rusting seems to help quite a bit. It keeps the solution more alkaline.
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The temperature got down to -12 here last night. Photos from a warmer time:
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that is really a nice clean looking body! you got really lucky on that one duane. hows the wife liking the jeep with the lift on it?
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She likes the Jeep, seems to be used to the ride now.
After the disappointment with the D70 axles, I decided to look for a 14 bolt. There were quite a few available but they all had drum brakes. I checked a few local yards and they all wanted $1,000+ for an axle with disks. I debated picking up one of the drum brake versions and purchasing one of the bolt-on disk-brake kits from Great Lakes Off-road. I was just about to pull the trigger on that setup when I came across a Craigslist ad picturing a truckload of 15-20 14bolt axles, all with disks and 4.11 gearing.
So how does one come across a truckload of 14-bolt axles like that? Apparently, the seller made a bid on several pallets of 14 bolt axles that were take-offs from brand-new 1-ton Suburbans. The Suburbans had their 14bolt AAM axles replaced with Rockwell axles as they were being up-armored for overseas use. The 14b's were palletized and sat in the back of a warehouse for a few years, then sat outside on a pallet rack for a few more. They were finally sold to the guy that listed them on Craigslist.
Don and I dragged my utility trailer over to the guy's shop and started going through the axles. As we scrutinized the selection and pulled differential covers, we found that the axles were not all 4.11s, there were a few with 3.73 gearing in there as well. Also, the differentials did not appear to be of the "open" variety but we couldn't identify exactly what type of LSD or Locker was in there. I picked the best-looking axle with 3.73 gears and brought it home.
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Very nice find!
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Cool story. Excellent axle.
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Wow, that works great!! I will need it with some of the things I have around here and I have some 30 gal containers that will work great!!
Nice find on the rear (and why I dumped my 70), guess you won't have to rebuild it!! Will the width be an issue or are H1 wheels going on?
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There isn't going to be any issue on axle width, less than 2 inches difference between the 14b and a Gen1 D70 axle. Spring pad location will pose a challenge though. They don't match up, not even close. The shock absorber mounts hang down way too low also.
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The pads are what I ran into with my 14sf for the 1500. The pads need to be placed right in the middle of the 2 pads shown and it is about 4 inches wider but that means my tires aren't sucked into the wheel wells.
That is great this will work with just a pads change, dual cylinder discs and slide off rotors.
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Incredibly insightful use of tech on the rust removal. I'll be all over that one in the future. That housing appears to be in very good condition and ready for action. the G80 governor locks should have been the only option for those housings. if they are Mil-spec they could be Detroit lockers. Any photos of the innards yet?
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Incredibly insightful use of tech on the rust removal. I'll be all over that one in the future. That housing appears to be in very good condition and ready for action. the G80 governor locks should have been the only option for those housings. if they are Mil-spec they could be Detroit lockers. Any photos of the innards yet?
BT (Bro Tate)
Not a G80. I was looking inside a couple of them while the guy pulled the covers off, No little spinny thing. I thought it was a Detroit locker, so you may have just confirmed my suspicions.
Think about it...These Burbs are not sold to the public in the configuration they came to us. They all have the 8100 big block engine. Now am I mistaken, but did the was the 8100 ever offered in the 3/4 ton burb for public sale?
These axles came from a fleet of specially ordered vehicles that were built in a hurry when we were spinning up Iraq. Most (almost all) of them got hot rodded, massive bumpers and armored with 2" thick glass and steel plate. They were built for GM specifically for this contract. Uncle sugar knew they were headed for a shootin' war so they pulled out all the fuses.
If a DT Locker was offered to the guberment, then Du-ane owns one!
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That's Koool...
..the burbs did have an 8.1 option Don.
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...dual cylinder discs and slide off rotors.
And parking brake!
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My thought was to use those tanks versus the forklift tanks for my EB that runs on pane. But we'll see, it was a good deal I so I jumped & they are currently in storage at this time.
Ultimately, I decided I didn't want to use propane or the gas engine for that matter. The propane system went to a good home, Sean, aka stlaser. Not sure what his plans are for it. Sean?
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Incredibly insightful use of tech on the rust removal. I'll be all over that one in the future. That housing appears to be in very good condition and ready for action. the G80 governor locks should have been the only option for those housings. if they are Mil-spec they could be Detroit lockers. Any photos of the innards yet?
BT (Bro Tate)
Not a G80. I was looking inside a couple of them while the guy pulled the covers off, No little spinny thing. I thought it was a Detroit locker, so you may have just confirmed my suspicions.
Think about it...These Burbs are not sold to the public in the configuration they came to us. They all have the 8100 big block engine. Now am I mistaken, but did the was the 8100 ever offered in the 3/4 ton burb for public sale?
These axles came from a fleet of specially ordered vehicles that were built in a hurry when we were spinning up Iraq. Most (almost all) of them got hot rodded, massive bumpers and armored with 2" thick glass and steel plate. They were built for GM specifically for this contract. Uncle sugar knew they were headed for a shootin' war so they pulled out all the fuses.
If a DT Locker was offered to the guberment, then Du-ane owns one!
That's how I understand it. 8.1 burbs and Yukon xl's for gov use. Mexico uses them now for their presidential motorcade, (I've geared up most of them). it's std open, gov loc, or Det. so by process of elim, I would agree on the Detroit. get over there and hold an axle hub still while duane turns the other and listen for the ratcheting sound, or get that cover off for an "in depth discovery photo shoot"
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Here is the inside of the axle:
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A few more pics:
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Well, now I'm confused...
I said before from memory I thought that was a Detroit locker, but now I am not sure.
I don't understand the AAM numbers on the carrier and the det Locker looks a bit different.
Tate...Help!
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I'm not tate, but that looks like a standard aam14 bolt open diff.
...but I didn't realize that on the 14b, you reuse the original carrier pieces, and the Detroit just replaces the guts.
Darn Tate, where you be? lol
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I think it is a Gov-Lock. It is not an open differential, I verified that already.
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Hmm, if it was a G80, it would turn like an open unit, right? Unless you spun it really fast. Guess this shows everyone how (un)knowledgeable I am on diffs. Just enough to make me dangerous. haha
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I think it is a Gov-Lock. It is not an open differential, I verified that already.
Gov locks don't lock up at slow speeds like when we were rotating the axles
The littler spinner thing has to spool up to lock the diff. That happens when a differential of axle speeds occurs. That is why I thought you had an old school Detroit locker.
Stop over my house and i'll jack up SquareD and spin the rear tires. You'll hear what a locker, an old school locker sounds like. No mistaking all that clacking going on in there!
Possibly some sort of a locker, possibly some sort of limited slip, maybe even an open...
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Hmm, if it was a G80, it would turn like an open unit, right? Unless you spun it really fast. Guess this shows everyone how (un)knowledgeable I am on diffs. Just enough to make me dangerous. haha
But it doesn't look like a G80
I sold one out of my 11.5 AAM axle a couple years ago and you could tell it was a G80. This thing in this 14 bolt does not look like that, unless I haven't seen all of it and missed the governor pin thing
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These pics show up when I google gov-lock:
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Looks a lot like what I have...
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Here is a pic I found of the military 1008 1 ton K30 truck with it's full on locker diff:
Looks more like the one in Duane's garage???
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The diff site I was viewing is calling this a "Gov-Lock open differential"
Very confusing, as a gov lock is a locking diff, but perhaps they list is as an open diff just because it acts like an open diff during normal operation.
This one is the one in Duane's 14 bolt and differs from the 1008 Detroit locker which is basically just the core of an open diff swapped out from spider gears to locker device
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You are making me curious to open mine up. I did some math too and the 4.10s might be OK, showing 1800 rpm at 70mph.
Looks like the 14bt gov lock uses just 3 spiders vs 4 of the open or locker, here is a pic I found, blowed up!!
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First time I ever saw 3 shafts
But that explains something
When I was looking at Duane's in the pic, I was not seeing the next shaft which should have been some 90 degrees off from the one in the foreground. So I was thinking "Is that a 2 shaft locking diff, is there such a thing???"
So your exploded view of an exploded 3 pin diff explains all that. And you can see the little spinner device.
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I thought the 14bt rears were all 4 spider setups and you added a locker the the housings. I am no expert either by any means.
I have blown MANY 12 bolt (gm 8.875) rears but hear of few 14bt or 11.5aam doing that.
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here is another showing the same 120* spacing for the gov-loc. Another pic showed you can see the clutch plates too without opening the case.
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AAM made the case. The Detroit is inside. Std open 4 pin case the Detroit replaces the spiders. You'll need two people for this experiment but hold one shaft and have someone turn the other. They week want to go the same direction. While applying tension clockwise, suddenly jerk one the opposite direction and it should pop loose and ratchet. Slowly come back and it will lock back in. You may be able to do this on your own if you turn one way the hard back the opposite. Might not have enough force though. Definitely not g80.
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That's what happens when you don't read the last post. My condolences on your Gov lock Duane.
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That's what happens when you don't read the last post. My condolences on your Gov lock Duane.
That's JR's
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Tate, I thought he said it was "locked" tho. If it's locked when he turns it, it has to be Detroit right?
A gov loc wouldn't do that when brand new.
I guess it boils down to 3 or 4 pins.
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Tate, I thought he said it was "locked" tho. If it's locked when he turns it, it has to be Detroit right?
A gov loc wouldn't do that when brand new.
I guess it boils down to 3 or 4 pins.
Yea, no 3 pin Detroit lockers, only the 4 pin
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My axle is pictured on posts 95 and 96. The other pictures posted are pulled from other sites. Confusing, I know. My differential case appears to have 3 pins, which makes it a Gov lock. Its not broken, at least not yet!
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Unfortunately, a gov lock that's locked up is a common issue. If it's sat for some time it could just be rust holding the governor in place.
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The axle had no more than 100 miles on it when BAE Systems pulled it off of the Suburban and palletized it. The Axle then sat for years. New friction plates or clutches in the gov-lock combined with years of storage, it may be locked up. Inside the case looks pretty clean so I doubt rust is much of an issue.
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How thick are those rods for the cleaner. I am seeing carbon welding rods in 3/8in. Will those work or do you need to remove the coating?
Got my 60 hubs and they need a good cleaning, thought I would try that anode cleaner.
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How thick are those rods for the cleaner. I am seeing carbon welding rods in 3/8in. Will those work or do you need to remove the coating?
Got my 60 hubs and they need a good cleaning, thought I would try that anode cleaner.
Closer to 3/4 in. You don't have to use Carbon gouging rod, you can use rebar too. The Carbon rods just make for a cleaner process. The nice thing about electrolytic cleaning is that threads and other delicate surfaces will not be damaged. Only the rust is removed.
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How thick are those rods for the cleaner. I am seeing carbon welding rods in 3/8in. Will those work or do you need to remove the coating?
Got my 60 hubs and they need a good cleaning, thought I would try that anode cleaner.
Closer to 3/4 in. You don't have to use Carbon gouging rod, you can use rebar too. The Carbon rods just make for a cleaner process. The nice thing about electrolytic cleaning is that threads and other delicate surfaces will not be damaged. Only the rust is removed.
Thx, I did couple searches and found that some were using rebar. Picked up some soda today and I have rebar so I am set.
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I use old strips of 55 gallon drum I cut about 5" wide and whatever length fits my cleaning container. I have found the large flat surfaces clean faster/better and are easily disposed of. They are also easy to position to hang where needed.
When doing small parts such as bolts and nuts I use Oxalic acid for those.
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Two weekends of out-of-town hockey tournaments; I'm just about caught up now…
Back to axles:
A little disassembly:
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Wheel studs after a little electrolytic rust removal:
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Surgery begins:
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Pardon the low-buck axle dolly…
It works!
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Removing the low-hanging Shock mounts and both sets of incorrectly spaced (for my truck) spring perches.
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More cutting and removal of brackets.
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I like the rear end cart!!
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AAM 14bolt axle sans spring perches and factory shock mounts.
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I have to prep a 14 bolt the same way here soon. I never relish removing those OEM spring mounts. Now your ready for reassembly which is far more fun.
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I have to prep a 14 bolt the same way here soon. I never relish removing those OEM spring mounts. Now your ready for reassembly which is far more fun.
It took longer than I thought it would to remove the four spring mounts, I went through more cutting wheels and grinding disks than I expected also. I really need to get a quality angle grinder. I had three HF grinders in queue as I worked on the axle. I would switch them out as they became too hot to handle...
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I keep saying I need a "quality" 4" angle grinder myself. I have a 15 year old craftsman I can't seem to kill, but it does at times get a bit hot (like once melted a rubber glove to my hand I use to avoid shocks it likes to produce randomly) LoL
I do have a larger 8" Milwaukee angle grinder for the big jobs. But that thing is a back breaker to run for a extended period of time and eats disks like they are paper.
My plan.... plasma/oxy torch most the weld off and then attack it with the large grinder.... we shall see how this works LoL
I have to stop buying new tools, or I won't have any $$$ left for the truck and will have to farm more. A situation I am trying to avoid.
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I keep saying I need a "quality" 4" angle grinder myself. I have a 15 year old craftsman I can't seem to kill, but it does at times get a bit hot (like once melted a rubber glove to my hand I use to avoid shocks it likes to produce randomly) LoL
I do have a larger 8" Milwaukee angle grinder for the big jobs. But that thing is a back breaker to run for a extended period of time and eats disks like they are paper.
My plan.... plasma/oxy torch most the weld off and then attack it with the large grinder.... we shall see how this works LoL
I have to stop buying new tools, or I won't have any $$$ left for the truck and will have to farm more. A situation I am trying to avoid.
I had that Craftsman as well!
It appears in some of the photos when I was derusting SquareD
Finally the cord started coming apart so I finally tossed it.
And know what else?
The Red dog never got it!
Remember what the red dog did to the new harbor freight grinder? Left me like two feet of chord sticking out of a chewed up handle to splice into
Irony is that all those chew marks in the handle actually provide more gripping surface!
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We have some axle parts! Here is an odd-shaped package delivered courtesy of the USPS. Inside is one of Great Lakes Off-Road's bulletproof covers. This cover is half-inch steel, fully plated with 1/2 inch steel. It is an awesome piece.
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More parts! Here are some spring perches, also from GLO. They are 1/4 inch steel. I will need to open up the diameter a bit with a grinder to fit the AAM axle tubes.
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Also, courtesy of Great Lakes Off-Road are these 1/2 inch steel spring plates.
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Here is a great item to protect that vulnerable u-joint out back, the GLO Pinion guard. Also fabricated from 1/2 inch steel.
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I also have these shock mounts from Ruff Stuff Specialties. They weld directly to the axle tube and will not hang below the line of the axle to snag on anything.
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Here is a great item to protect that vulnerable u-joint out back, the GLO Pinion guard. Also fabricated from 1/2 inch steel.
this guy makes me wish the 11.5 had a pinion support to bolt this sucker to. Great piece!
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I can see a lot of those in my future!!!
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Very nice selection of upgrades. I need to order a diff cover or two myself.
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One last item I forgot to post up. Can anyone identify what this is? :o
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Wow planning to shave it also?
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That is what we call a TMR. Custom TMR :)
You plan on rockcrawling that thing? or mallcrawling like Big D?
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That is what we call a TMR. Custom TMR :)
You plan on rockcrawling that thing? or mallcrawling like Big D?
Hey...
Malls are dangerous places
Our liberal media doesn't talk about it much, but many a brave warrior has met their match in those awful places!
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I'm not likely to do much rock-climbing but do recognize the poor rear axle clearance I'll have with a 33" tire. Even the roads around Don's farm are deeply rutted and can snag an axle. The TMR Shave will increase clearance by 1.5 inches. That's the rough equivalent of 3 inches of tire size…
…So, its decision time in regards to the 14 bolt rear axle. I have several options to ponder, each with its own advantages and disadvantages. Lets lay them out and take a look:
OPTION: A
Button up the axle with the GLO cover, keeping the 3.73 ratio and stock Gov-Loc differential. No axle Shave.
PROs:
1. The diff and gears are virtually new.
2. Easiest and least expensive option.
CONs:
1. Higher gear-ratio than I'd like with my intended tire size of 33".
2. Questionable Longevity / Durability of the Gov-Loc.
3. Poor ground clearance with the 33'" tires and the notoriously low-slung 14 bolt axle.
4. Have to purchase new gears for the D60 front axle; gear change / setup is more difficult on a D60 than a 14 bolt.
OPTION B:
Upgrade the differential to a Grizzly and change gears to a 3.55 ratio. No Shave kit.
PROs:
1. Ideal gear ratio for my power train and tire choice.
2. Will not have to buy new gears for the D60 front axle.
3. Bullet-proof differential, no future worries of a possible "Gov-bomb" incident.
CONs:
1. Have to disassemble and set-up gears in 14-bolt, although easier to do than in the D60.
2. Poor ground clearance with the 33'" tires and the notoriously low-slung 14 bolt axle.
3. Cost.
OPTION C:
Full-tilt. New 3.55 gears, New Grizzly locker, TMR Shave kit (no ring-gear machining req. on my model)
PROs:
1. Ideal gear ratio for my power train and tire choice.
2. Will not have to buy new gears for the D60 front axle.
3. Bullet-proof differential, no future worries of a possible "Gov-bomb" incident.
4. Rear axle clearance close to that of a D44.
CONs:
1. Have to disassemble and set-up gears in 14-bolt, although easier to do than in the D60.
2. Most work / time involved.
3. Highest cost.
What am I missing?
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I vote "A"
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I vote "A"
Did you vote in RMTS' first poll? Its at the top of the thread...
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Oh, cool
Just noticed it
Voted!
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C (yes I voted) do it right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Voted for "C"
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Couple comments. You can't say 'build' and put the gov bomb under the cover.
Gears will need to be what the calculator says is ideal.
It appears you have already bought the shave kit.
As well you have pointed to the ground clearance issues with the desired tires.
Yes it will be more cost and time but option c seems to fit the bill.
And yes I voted too.
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Just to clarify my choice. If I didn't know this guy (Like a brother) I'd have voted for "C" as well. But since I do know him, I don't want him spending a ton of money which will slow down this build even more. I want to see parts coming off that ugly yellow thing PDQ!
I know what he is going to be getting into when he starts putting that big pig iron in the engine bay!
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May I present another option?
Change your front Dana 60 to 3.73 (used Gears are $75)... any rear axle Dana 60 3.73 set will work...say like a half billion Ford Vans and F250's
Advantage to this is cost, and being a front axle, gear set up is less stressful. Take the money saved and purchase a front L/S locker of choice.
Run the rear 14 bolt as is. Shave off the bottom lip with your sawzall and grind smooth and your back to almost Dana 60 diff clearance.
Run some short 35" rubber, like say BFG's as an example that are a true 33.5 or so. This will net you close to the same cruise rpm as a average 31.5" tall 33" tire. It's a old Dodge it will need new springs anyway, a mild lift is a simple upgrade. Or go for 4" of lift and run some 37" rubber that's 35" tall. Or some 345/75/16 KM2's they are right under 36" actual. All these are just ideas/examples.
I'd run the gov lock for now and upgrade it at a latter date. Besides the fact I don't think you can even buy 3.54 gears for the 14 bolt. The other issue is you will need a open carrier to put a locker in it. You can't use the gov lock carrier.
That's ma two cents worth.
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^^^Now that makes sense!
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Option D: 3.73s, Grizzly, shave (only because you already have it)
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Yah in thinking about what Ken just mentioned... shave that thing, ya own the parts...doesn't cost anything but time at this point. Besides.....it look like it would be a fun project.
BTW don't forget regardless how you set that thing up... weld the axle tubes to the center section. That is a must do for any 14 bolt that will see hard use. (Cummins)
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Yukon shows a 3.42 ratio.
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OPTION D (Ken's Choice) added. You can change your vote if you like, you know; vote against it after you vote for it; that kind of thing…
This POLL feature has a lot of options. Kinda cool.
On the shave kit, I saw one installed on the Xtreme 4x4 show on Powerblock TV a few years ago. I knew if I ever had a vehicle with a 14 bolt, I would want to do that. The kit itself was not that expensive, Its mostly labor / welding, which will already be happening on this axle with the new perches, shock mounts and tube welding.
http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode/XT2011-09/14-bolt-axle-101-low-dollar-wheeler-part-3#.VRU-8kv_ITs
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I changed to "D"
Used a "Big D" Now where have I heard that before?????
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I like the way Ken was thinking. And Norm brings many good points to the table as well.
Changed to "D" now as well. May be the most effective use of time and money.
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I also choose D. 3.55 is not an option for the rear, 3.73's are ideal for 33" up to 35" for the CTB depending on trans obviously, but I offer you a new option as well: YDGGM11.5-30-1 a classic limited slip option just assembled last week by our group here in WA. smooth street driveability with high performance nodular casting, 8320 forged internals and raebestos clutches. no governor to blow up, but still a limited slip, so not as much traction and brute strength as the grizzly. I'm not as good putting the pros and cons list together but there you have my $0.02
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That looks good for my rear 14bt!! I don't really like a locker for its street maners. But then again I have spun a truck all the way around in a corner with a posi.
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That looks good for my rear 14bt!! I don't really like a locker for its street maners. But then again I have spun a truck all the way around in a corner with a posi.
I'll tell you JR, until you try that Grizzly, don't pass judgment on all lockers. Mine is so smooth, you barely know it's there!
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Hmm, always open to advice. This one?
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Hmm, always open to advice. This one?
Mine was the whole piece, but I have the 11.5 AAM, not the 14 bolt...
Tate...???
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Norm also brought up a very good point....you have to have an open style diff to accept a locker.
Maybe you have that covered already...?..?
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Norm also brought up a very good point....you have to have an open style diff to accept a locker.
Maybe you have that covered already...?..?
I do not have an open carrier for a locker so I would have to either source one or go with a complete unit like the one EL TATE posted above. As for the transmission, I have a Getrag 5-Speed. I don't know what the final drive ratio is.
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I just came across this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-10-5-14-Bolt-Chevy-Ring-Pinion-Gears-3-55-Ratio-Thick-14T-39-11-/281311020712
3.55 ratio R&P gears for a 10.5 inch 14 bolt...
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Maybe i missed something but is there a GLO cover for a shaved 14 bolt?
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Maybe i missed something but is there a GLO cover for a shaved 14 bolt?
No. It has to be trimmed and the TMR cover plate welded on.
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Getrag 360
1st: 5.531 2nd: 3.017 3rd: 1.60 4th: 1.0 5th: 0.77 R: 5.029
I would call and see what the deal with those gears are. Be a first if someone is making them.
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I do not have an open carrier for a locker so I would have to either source one or go with a complete unit like the one EL TATE posted above. As for the transmission, I have a Getrag 5-Speed. I don't know what the final drive ratio is.
OOps, Must have missed Tate's post when on my phone
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On hold until taxes are compete… :-\
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I hope it works out better than you expect it to. On the bright side, maybe you can write off part of the project next year LoL
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I just came across this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-10-5-14-Bolt-Chevy-Ring-Pinion-Gears-3-55-Ratio-Thick-14T-39-11-/281311020712
3.55 ratio R&P gears for a 10.5 inch 14 bolt...
incorrect. the photo is 14t, but 3.55 was never an option for that axle. either a miscount on the teeth, 41-11 is 3.73, 41-12 is 3.42, 41-10 4.10 etc. or he has used a stock photo of a 14t, 10.5 and confused his diff. GM's ran 10.5 dana 70 hd's as well and dealers will often tell customers that they have a "10.5" and the customer then assumes 14t, not 10 bolt dana 70hd. I would contact the seller and verify tooth count and pilot brg jrnl at the end of the pinion gear prior to ordering.
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I'm also an idiot and gave you the wrong part number on the limited slip. and you are also right in the fact that that you cannot run a grizzly with a Gov loc case, you would need a standard open case to put it in. YDGGM14T-3-30-1 is the right number on the Duragrip, but I was just informed they will not be available until mid June... cue "price is right loser music", wha wha wha wha, whaaaaaaaaaaaaa. at this time the eaton, EAT19689, (just like the duragrip) or the true trac, (like JR's front, TT 915A545) is available. or find yourself an open case, stick a grizzly in there and adjust your driving style to the locker.
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What is the width on that axle wms to wms surface?? Looking at options for the SUB with stock H1 wheels.
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I'll try to find where I wrote that down. I can't measure it right now due to the axle being disassembled at present.
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Can you look at the year stamp to give me idea?
THX.
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What should I do with this? Can it be saved?
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^^^^^He is setting us up...!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Sell it to a Dodge person that will shorten the frame and add a Ramcharger body on top.
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Sell it to a Dodge person that will shorten the frame and add a Ramcharger body on top.
Day late and dollar short now I think…..
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Yep, too late…
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^^^ He's working you boys... There's something up here, and I really do not know!
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Back in early October, Don and I worked out a deal for him to purchase the chassis that I acquired years ago for the PowerWagon build. He had wanted it for quite some time. His intent was to use the power train for his Suburban build.
Because he was still somewhat recovering from back surgery and his lifted Chevy is not a great tow vehicle and he had not yet acquired his Ram pickup, I offered to drive the 65 miles to the farm, pick up his trailer, load the chassis onto it, and deliver the chassis back to the farm. 4 to 6 weeks later, he changed his mind regarding the Cummins/Suburban swap and bought the Jeep truck.
No money had changed hands so I drove back to the farm and retrieved the chassis. I brought the chassis to my friend Dan’s welding and fabrication shop with the intent to disassemble and part out the chassis. Dan’s shop is a mile from my old place, where the chassis was previously stored. In short, I drove 390 miles over 3 separate days, to move the chassis one mile down the road…
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With the chassis relocated to DKWELD, disassembly began…
But first, we had to organize a workspace with shelving, work bench, tool boxes, etc. I bought a Husky rolling toolbox from Home Depot and brought some tools over.
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I bought an old Safety Kleen parts washer off of FB marketplace and set about stripping, repainting and rebuilding it.
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Yeah, I was salivating some. 6BT with all the trimings, looks like a 4500 and 205 to boot.
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Yeah, I was salivating some. 6BT with all the trimings, looks like a 4500 and 205 to boot.
The chassis is from a late model year 1991 IC 1st Gen Ram. Early 1991 models were not intercooled. The NV4500 was not available until the 1994 2nd Gen model so this chassis has the Getrag 360. The G360 was only in production for 5 years and does not have aftermarket support. I wish this one was a NV4500. It does have the NP205 transfer case, which is a very strong, gear-driven unit.
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After we removed the driveshaft, we pulled out the NP205 transfer case. After some research and a discussion with Shawn, I decided rebuilding this was something I could do. I ordered some parts from Great Lake Extreme Off-road a rebuild kit from Randy’s Worldwide and a technical manual from Torq-King and began disassembly.
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Within a few days, I received parts from GLO (Shawn). Here is a fabricated differential cover for a Dana 60 axle. We will use this on the front axle that will be built for the crew cab.
The flat plate with 6 holes is a PTO cover plate that will fit onto a NP205 transfer case and other transfer cases and transmissions. We will weld this plate to a section of pipe so that we can mount the transfer case to an engine stand for disassembly and rebuilding.
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We cut a section of pipe at a 45 degree angle and welded it to the plate. The assembly easily bolts into place on the NP205 PTO access port and slides right into our engine stand. Now we can tear-down and reassemble the transfer case without wrestling with it on the workbench. Brilliant! Thanks for a great product, Shawn.
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:likebutton: Keep ‘em coming you have a ways to catch up yet……
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I just sold the Dodge 205 I had. Now Im selling the gm 203. 205s are easy to rebuild.
That picture looks like the motor is intercooled? Non intercooled have a direct pipe from the intake to turbo.
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During disassembly a random thought crossed my mind; If a transfer case was an animated character, which one would it be?
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After disassembly, degreasing and power washing, a few hours of electrolytic rust removal.
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Disassembly of the chassis continues with removal of the Getrag 360 5-speed transmission. Apparently, some mice took up residence inside the bellhousing while the chassis was parked in the field. They scampered off to a corner of the shop once the transmission was set onto the floor.
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This what the transmission looks like inside. Apparently the shifter seal failed and allowed some rain water to seep in, there is some corrosion on top of the gearset and inside the top cover. Fortunately, it is not seized. There is still movement of the gears and shifter. No doubt it will require a rebuild. We will spray the inside with Kroil and set it aside for now.
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Back to the NP205 transfer case. Once the housing was clean and dry, we masked off all mating surfaces, primed and painted with duplicolor engine enamel in a cast-iron color.
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Here are most of the additional parts as they are restored by electrolytic rust removal, abrasive or bead blasting and then primed and painted. I also use Evaporust on a lot of the bolts and small hardware and brackets.
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That came out nice
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That came out nice
But wait, there’s more…
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Looking good! :popcorn:
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The grey looks better than the black I did mine in before.
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Here is the final layout prior to assembly. I obtained a NP205 full rebuild kit from Randy’s Worldwide with all bearings, seals and gaskets needed. I also purchased the technical manual from Torque King.
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We pressed new races/bearings into the idler gearset and reinstalled into the housing. Once installed, we checked endplay with a dial indicator.
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We just continued the assembly, the Torque-King manual has step-by-step instructions and covers all the variants from different automakers and model years. The rebuild kit from Randy’s Worldwide contains all the parts necessary. It is a complete kit.
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Looking good
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This is a fun one to watch. Looks like all new things
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks.
Pressing the double seals into the input housing.
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This part was fun. 15 roller bearings inside of this shaft; we used petroleum jelly to hold the bearings in place as we installed them and 12 gauge wire to hold the spring retainer up while we installed each individual bearing.
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Here is the completed NP205. I tried to post up a short 10 second video but it didn’t seem to work…
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I hope that doesn't rust!
They look so good when they are first built.
I vividly recall packing those 15 roller pins inside the access as you did. I recall using assembly grease to hold mine in there.
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The cast-iron case is primed and painted, as are all other cast and steel parts. I used paints from duplicolor and Eastwood that look like cast iron, bare steel, aluminum, etc. I clearcoated most of the bare aluminum. The plan is for this truck NOT to see any salt and minimal rain. I did come across a black-oxide process for a lot of the OEM hardware that we are re-using. Degrease, De-rust, bead-blast and then oxide. I will outline the process in a future post.
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Very nice!
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I like the grey over when I did mine. It was black with stainless hardware.
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Back to the chassis. With the transmission and transfer case removed, we tried to turn over the engine. NOGO. Ran when parked… 6+ years ago…
Let’s disassemble this thing and see what the issue is. The plan is to strip most of the components off of the engine and pull the cylinder head off while it is still in the chassis. Then move the block onto an engine stand.
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Not good. After removing the cylinder head, we found corrosion in two cylinders. Apparently moisture entered the engine at some point. Is it salvageable?
The plan is to fill the affected cylinders with Evaporust and let it soak in and dissolve the corrosion for a few days.
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Are these blocks sleeved?
If so there is the answer.
Unfortunate that it’s this way.
Otherwise then oversized and a bore in its future.
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Are these blocks sleeved?
If so there is the answer.
Unfortunate that it’s this way.
Otherwise then oversized and a bore in its future.
Not sleeved. I agree. A boring is in this engine’s future.
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We just continued the assembly, the Torque-King manual has step-by-step instructions and covers all the variants from different automakers and model years. The rebuild kit from Randy’s Worldwide contains all the parts necessary. It is a complete kit.
other than your tech manual pedestal being slightly over engineered, i think this is coming along very very nicely sir :wink:
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The bores are pretty robust but that is bad. Any can be sleeved if you must.
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The affected bores are filled with Evaporust and covered. We continue to strip parts and components off of the engine in preparation for removal from the chassis.
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The forklift makes removing the engine from the chassis almost easy. We bolted the block to a new 2000lb capacity engine stand.
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I have an almost identical stand, to which after grinding out welds and rewelding it I then built a side mount for the Cummins. Stand may be 2k rated but that Cummins is long front to back.
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Think thats why some stands mount the motor on the side.
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I have an almost identical stand, to which after grinding out welds and rewelding it I then built a side mount for the Cummins. Stand may be 2k rated but that Cummins is long front to back.
Agree. It’s a heavy engine. If I do another one, I will make a side mount.
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A realman would build a real Cummins stand, this is one I threw together awhile back
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A realman would build a real Cummins stand, this is one I threw together awhile back
Tossed that together did ya???
(Spare Falcon parts??)
Engineers...
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Nice work Phil, I imagine you just had those cost effective pillow blocks laying around????? :popcorn:
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I’m wanting to build something like that for my LB7 block
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Very nice engine stand.
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Disassembly of the 12v begins. The Evaporust appears to have done its job, and although the cylinder affected cylinder walls look a little rough, we should be able to get the piston s removed.
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Nice work Phil, I imagine you just had those cost effective pillow blocks laying around????? :popcorn:
One of the very few advantages of LA was there are lots of surplus houses, I think I paid $50 for the pair. Picked up the very nice casters for 100 for the set of 4. Is all bolt together so I can roll it under a bench when not in use. Total build cost less than $400 if I remember correctly.
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Sweet :likebutton:
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We removed the camshaft, crankshaft and the pistons. Only one of the two pistons with corrosion in the cylinder bores required additional effort to remove. The Evaporust did an excellent job of loosening the pistons and rings. The two affected cylinder walls don’t look as bad as they did right after cylinder head removal.
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With the engine block completely stripped of parts, we power washed everything and placed it on a pallet until it goes to Haisley Machine in Indiana.
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Mines been undercover and rotated free when I got it, some time ago! Only had 80K I was told.
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Mines been undercover and rotated free when I got it, some time ago! Only had 80K I was told.
Keep it covered! This engine did get water/moisture in it at some point.
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With the engine out, disassembled and at Haisley Machine, it’s time to start stripping the remaining parts from the chassis. We will definitely need to take out the king pin Dana 60 front axle and the fuel tank.
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We continue to strip the ‘91 chassis. Here is the Dana 60 front axle. Once the frame is stripped and moved out of the way we will dig into the axle to see what surprises await…
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Looks like a clean axle.
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Looks like a clean axle.
It’s OK, rusty but not too much pitting.
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Everything we want to keep is stripped from the ‘91 chassis. We will put it outside in an out-of-the-way location in case we need to check measurements or bracket locations in the future.
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Not sure what your build plan is, but I didn’t measure any brackets going from the 92 donor onto the 74. Just bolted it all together.
Had to cut out the divorced transfer case cross member on the 74 frame, and drill some holes for the 92 transmission cross member. Everything else was direct bolt on.
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Frame looks pretty good. No obvious pitting and just surface rust.
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Not sure what your build plan is, but I didn’t measure any brackets going from the 92 donor onto the 74. Just bolted it all together.
Had to cut out the divorced transfer case cross member on the 74 frame, and drill some holes for the 92 transmission cross member. Everything else was direct bolt on.
Good to know, thanks.
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Here are most of the additional parts as they are restored by electrolytic rust removal, abrasive or bead blasting and then primed and painted. I also use Evaporust on a lot of the bolts and small hardware and brackets.
Evaporust actually works?? My boss got some and he dumped it in a wash tub. He soaked every tool he could find with a little rust on it. After a few weeks it turned into a thick tar and now those tools are forever trapped. Actually I think we have 2 of those tubs of sticky tools in the shop somewhere.
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Here are most of the additional parts as they are restored by electrolytic rust removal, abrasive or bead blasting and then primed and painted. I also use Evaporust on a lot of the bolts and small hardware and brackets.
Evaporust actually works?? My boss got some and he dumped it in a wash tub. He soaked every tool he could find with a little rust on it. After a few weeks it turned into a thick tar and now those tools are forever trapped. Actually I think we have 2 of those tubs of sticky tools in the shop somewhere.
Yes, I have had very good results. I keep the soaking container covered to prevent evaporation. Perhaps that’s why it became like tar? It only takes perhaps a day or two to remove rust, some parts are ready after an overnight soak.
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Frame looks pretty good. No obvious pitting and just surface rust.
It’s not all that great. Apparently mud, leaves and debris were trapped where the tank abuts the frame. A bit rusty there. Additionally, one of the previous hillbilly owners tried to weld reinforcement plates and traction bar mounts onto it. Must have been his first time using a welder.
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Time to start updating this post! Work has continued even though posting did not. I spent a good part of last summer and early Fall in NW Wyoming. Prior to and afterwards, work on engine components and axles continued. Here are some engine parts. Some parts were powder coated, some painted.
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Glad to see the work going on. I have too much on my plate right now.
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Come on bro...Show the boyz the whole motor...and the stripped frame... and the fr...
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I'm trying to figure out how to post the photos properly...
I seem to have forgotten...
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I'm trying to figure out how to post the photos properly...
I seem to have forgotten...
Hit the reply tab, then the "add attachments" just below, up to 10 per post. I normally resize to around 700k.
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I'm trying to figure out how to post the photos properly...
I seem to have forgotten...
Hit the reply tab, then the "add attachments" just below, up to 10 per post.
I think the photos are too large to display.
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It will DL them fine, just crazy big!
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Engine parts…(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240208/05cf93e1470b31ec40f2fdea68b9bc0e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240208/d5a339e82299329162c0ce7212633508.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240208/d53a36fbfcce99fe842b1a6511d75ed7.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240208/a16b9e771bd36698b5a0035ed5c7c903.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240208/24f3057ee7dd13cd08661b979bb996da.jpg)
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Oh, taptalk posts. Sometimes direct from phones they come out 90 off, but those look good!
Are those creme or what?
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Oh, taptalk posts. Sometimes direct from phones they come out 90 off, but those look good!
Are those creme or what?
Actually, silver powder coating. Yes, Tapatalk is what I used to post the photos. I initially tried from my MacBook, no sizing option prior to posting. At least I couldn’t figure it out…
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When I txt to myself, they transfer at about 700k.
Silver, thats a diff color.
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A few more engine parts. As I completed the restoration of groups of parts, I brought them to Haisley Machine.
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coming along very nicely!
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Some photos from one of my trips to Haisley Machine. At this point, all machine work to the block and head is done. They keep all parts associated with my build in a palletized crate.
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The machined parts sat in queue for most of the summer, engine repairs for racing trucks during the race season take priority.
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After returning from a long trip to Wyoming, I drove out to Haisley Machine to check in and see how the engine buildup was progressing. I was pleased with what I found. The engine color is Chrysler green, which was used in the mid 1970’s.
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I have seen it in person ^^^^^^^^^^ It is one sweet-looking motor. Talk about doing one right!
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That looks great. Is that a VE or VP44?
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It is a VE pump.
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Guess I need to look at mine. I don't recall the upper piece.
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Time to disassemble the PowerWagon. The bed came off easily with the forklift. Dirt and grime that had been building up for 50 years finally exposed. Underneath, the frame is in remarkably good condition.
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...I know what's coming right up...!!!! ;-) :likebutton:
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I enlisted some help from my son assembling a body cart I picked up from the Jeg’s retail store in Columbus, OH. This makes repositioning the cab in the shop a one-man-job.
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Pictures
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