REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
WEAPONS => Firearms => Topic started by: OldKooT on August 24, 2015, 11:02:15 AM
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Last week Wed I was at the local gun shop. I had stopped in to pick up 350rds of 8mm for my old K98 truck gun. $50 I figured why not stock up..I have two old Mauser's and we will eventually use it. There were a half dozen guys age 20's - mid 30's standing around debating long guns. One of them asked me my opinion on which new rifle I'd buy for a long range 1000yrds or less all around weapon. I said I have never bought a new rifle and most likely never will. I also mentioned I see very little reason to shoot that distance.
The fella then asks me what my favorite rifle I own is. I offered to show him, and after clearing it, I brought it in and laid on the counter my old K98 truck gun. Man did I get some laughs. They made fun of the old beat up stock, no scope, and in general it's less than nice cosmetics.
Now the old boy that owns this place pipes up and tells said young fella that despite it's appearance he bets it shoots well enough or he knows I'd not own it. At which point the "boys" start fiddling around with the bolt and stuff and one notices it's "firm" as he put it. I explained to him that my preference for the Mauser action is based on many things, but I'd explain some other time. I then attempted to leave as I had some work to do yet on a fence line. Then the kid see's the swastika stamped in the old girl and declares it "Nazi junk" *sigh
To keep a long story short said 32 year old kid bets me $1500 that despite any modifications I may do, my old antique won't shoot sub MOA at 100yrds. I told him I'd prove him wrong but I don't want to ruin a perfectly good truck gun. He then says I can use any Mauser action I want and build an entire rifle, he still bets he can out shoot me...so he now has a bet.
So to recap: I have until April 1st to build a sub MOA rifle based on a Mauser action. And I also mentioned I'd enjoy the challenge, and spend less on my rifle than his scope cost. So I have about $1200 to play with LoL
What I have to out-shoot is a 700Rem SPS in .308 with every tactical bolt on known to man. Gun shop owner told me on the phone he will likely cheat and have a smith work it over between now and then he suspects, since he was asking for a gunsmith recommendation from the gun shop owner after I left.
So I need to find a nice unmolested commercial 98 action. I suppose it may suit my intents to have a decent heavy barrel fitted, and chamber it .308. I haven't yet really made a plan...first I guess I will find the action and go from there.
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Any ammo restrictions? A lot of accuracy will come from the ammo and the ability to develop a load for it will help a lot. That and the trigger. And of course that nut behind the trigger.
An example of one..... I don't hold to the freebore concept. That bullet needs to get stabilized quick. I usually start at .020 jump into the lands and work from there to dial in accuracy.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-107-a-custom-built-mauser/
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I have a 98 that has all the markings primarily stamped out. But still in 8mm and fully functioning. Honestly don't know what it takes to pull the action from it but let me know if your unable to find one.
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No restrictions at all regarding loads or caliber. Since he's shooting .308 I figured I'd go with that to eliminate squabbles. I am all but positive he will be shooting off the shelf box ammo. I have a inside source, the gun shop owner is about 70, German, and he wasn't happy about the Nazi junk comment. So he passed along some Intel LoL
Trev.... yr 98 a Old Mil model or a Commercial action? I could do this on a Mil version but it would be much easier on the budget to find a solid commercial to build from. That would eliminate the headaches of bolt forging and the issues with a good bolt locking safety, and the resulting expense of both.
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Good ole fashioned shoot off. I'm rootin for ya Norm.
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LoL thanks Ken... I am confident if I can get the rifle built I can handle this. Time with the tool and sending lead down range are required. So I need to get building soon...
I can paper that old K98 truck gun just inside 2" with the OEM sights at 100yrds. It doesn't have the barrel to be any more accurate. Considering the last time I changed the barrel I used a vise, a pipe wrench and a few rags.... yah LoL A testimony to those old Germans machining...the head spacing was fine (safe) and we were back to shooting in a hour.
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This sounds like a fun event. I'll definitely be checking this one. Most of the target rifles, granted in .22 for the scout camp I taught at were Mauser or Remington and the Mauser was my favorite hands down. At a whopping 50ft, I could bury 5 rounds in the same x with that tack driver, but the Remington with the same peep sights I could barely keep it under a dime.
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Some rifles just shoot. My son has a Savage in .300win mag that's an incredible off the shelf shooter. He uses Hornaday box ammo and it shoots it like it's a match rifle almost. More than a capable hunting rifle.
I long ago gave up spending money on guns. I sold most of my collection except the sentimental stuff and just use them like the tool they are these days. This "kid" rubbed me wrong when he insulted the entire German race and likely his own forefathers. This area is rather heavily German decent. I am the odd ball Irishman LoL
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old K98 truck gun.
I love the old WW2 rifles. Except the Carcano and the Arisaka.
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Well if you have no restrictions, get the boom stick together, and get the action and trigger just right. Then start working a tack driver load. A bit of +\- .1 grains of powder and some trigger time and you'll show him up.
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So, why not put a new match grade barrel on the old girl- (looks etc) upgrade the trigger, scope it with period, quality German glass and mount, have the existing stock glass bedded and work up custom loads? Hell, go all out and buy a WW2 uniform, or I can send you my chrome German Helmet to shoot in!
One of our resident sniper types can get you all the dope on atmospheric influences on performance of your load, then visit your local Amish and find out the correct crappy weather day in March to schedule the shoot off- rain or shine. You know he's only gonna practice in the "good" weather so play it to your advantage!
Old age and treachery baby! ;)
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LoL.... I told my son about this plan tonight, he found it "sick"
First I will find an action I want to use. (thanks those of you that have given me some leads)
The blueprint: I have a lead on a Interarms Mark X Mauser action. It's been stripped of bluing, but it's a complete Commercial action with a never been fired Timney trigger. If this works out I will have $200 in that.
My local gun shop owner called and mentioned he has a rusty externally but nice otherwise Douglas heavy barrel in amazingly enough .308 It was a "white barrel" that they shipped him years ago for a project that never got used. It ended up somehow sitting in his mower storage shed and got a nice dose of surface rust. Which is perfect. He claims the bore is still in grease.
And my son who despite thinking I am twisted.....is going to donate a ugly old Walnut stock he saved off a Interarms Model X he once owned. It's perfect for this project.
The plan: True the receiver and blueprint it to the barrel and the usual hours of work this entails. We will also do some minor bolt work as well. (usual stuff, it's a Mauser it doesn't need much) As soon as this has all been done, we will do the usual bedding the action and barrel floating and go shoot it. The hope is to achieve my goal with box ammo. After all, despite the fun of working up loads, this will still be a work rifle when this little pissing match is over.
Once I get it where I want it, Disassemble and careful grease application of vital areas will be performed. Then I am going to let it sit in the weather and rust. I selected a receiver that has some external nicks and stuff that would make it less than desirable for a "nice" gun for just this reason.
To cap it off, my Gun smith has he thinks yet a Nikon scope he once dropped out of a moving truck on a rifle. It according to him still was fine, just cosmetically ugly. If he has it and it still is functional as he claims, it will be the perfect optic for my old German hunk of junk.
So far I should be shooting for $400, it should be VERY ugly. It should perform as expected...and I am looking forward to seeing his face when I show up for our little match.
I am starting to look forward to this....
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You need to have a t-shirt made up that reads (in German) "a closed mouth gathers no foot" to wear on said day!
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You need to have a t-shirt made up that reads (in German) "a closed mouth gathers no foot" to wear on said day!
YES!
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Perfect!
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a closed mouth gathers no foot = Ein geschlossener Mund sammelt keine Fuß
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I have a 98 that has all the markings primarily stamped out. But still in 8mm and fully functioning. Honestly don't know what it takes to pull the action from it but let me know if your unable to find one.
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Norm,
Forgive my ignorance of my rifle, but I couldn't tell you anything other than it is a K98 and it shoots 8mm. I know that is terrible but I was 15 when I bought it for dirt and have only shot it a few times. The one thing I can tell you is it is a rough looking gun... Accurate enough though. If you want pictures or any other information let me know I'll gladly provide them. I am sure you have something I want for my build too, so I'd bet we could come to a good deal for both of us if it is what you need. Just let me know.
Turner
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I can't wait. Reminds me of street racing back in the day. Old 4 door gm car with steel wheels. Best one we put together was an 82 caprice classic 4 door. Mismatched body panels or primer. Then a sprayed 383 stroker under the hood on a roller cam....."umm race? Ok, but can I have a car length against your camaro?" "money?", uhh, I dunno, All I got is a Hondo"
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Sneaky
This gun
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Any ammo restrictions? A lot of accuracy will come from the ammo and the ability to develop a load for it will help a lot. That and the trigger. And of course that nut behind the trigger.
An example of one..... I don't hold to the freebore concept. That bullet needs to get stabilized quick. I usually start at .020 jump into the lands and work from there to dial in accuracy.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-107-a-custom-built-mauser/
X2 ammo will be key
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"we will do the usual bedding the action and barrel floating"
Might also try using a 1" long piece of truck tire inner-tube {thicker than a car tube} under the barrel at the end of the stock and an "inch pound" driver to adjust pressure using the front stock screw. Once you find the best pressure you can use the driver to get it back after cleaning or the weather conditions change the stock pressure. Not home so don't have any notes to share. It can work wonders if the floating isn't working.
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Yep. Consistency is the key. Also, when shooting your groups leave the bolt open and give it a minute between rounds to keep the heating to a minimum.
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This is great Norm and I like the plan. Sounds like you have it covered but with the time and budget you have get the barrel Cryoed at
http://www.performancecryogenics.com/pricing.html
Ammo is the key and at just 100yrds you don't need a 1k scope to do the work. Nikons are good, maybe have it "checked" by Nikon first.
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The project is so far going as planned. The action has been purchased, and by now he may have the barrel fitted I haven't called and asked how it's going. This rifle has to live in my pickup, so it will most likely not wear a scope for long, if at all. I am still thinking on that part... Scopes are immensely problem prone on a truck gun.
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The project is so far going as planned. The action has been purchased, and by now he may have the barrel fitted I haven't called and asked how it's going. This rifle has to live in my pickup, so it will most likely not wear a scope for long, if at all. I am still thinking on that part... Scopes are immensely problem prone on a truck gun.
Norm, try something like this for a scoped truck gun,
https://www.triadtactical.com/Triad-Padded-Scope-and-Muzzle-Cover.html
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Any update on the project?
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Um, subscribed ;D I love seeing know-it-all punks put in their place haha
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Um, subscribed ;D I love seeing know-it-all punks put in their place haha
Man, you almost said, can I say it..."Sub'd"
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Heck, that would've brought overwatch back !!
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Any word on the gun? 1 April is coming.
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Still happening?
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Oh boy. This could be put in the what are we gonna do with this generation page
Raising boys into RealMen!!
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Thinking about how this project is going
Raising boys into RealMen!!
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He's busy with Miss K's getaway car..... 8)
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I just wanna see the video of the boys broken heart.
Raising boys into RealMen!!
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Looking forward to hear how this turns out. I hope you make him post the $1500 before any shorting is done.
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Norm,
Just discovered this thread, and am loving it! Nothing worse than gun store "experts". LOL! I've heard more idiotic BS out of the "kids" who hang out in gun stores...it's almost as bad as some of the "internet experts" out there, who's sole source of experience is playing Call of Duty. I am really looking forward to hearing about this kid's comeuppance!
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sole source of experience is playing Call of Duty.
But what if you play on the hardest setting? I mean limited ammo and smarter A.I. bruh!!
And you happen to run outta snacks mid mission and it hasn't auto saved!
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sole source of experience is playing Call of Duty.
But what if you play on the hardest setting? I mean limited ammo and smarter A.I. bruh!!
And you happen to run outta snacks mid mission and it hasn't auto saved!
LOL! I guess if you can survive the spawn point snipers, you're pretty skilled. I'll give them that. I still have a hard time listening to 400lbs gun-store-ninjas with cheeto dust on their shirt fronts thinking they are tactical just because 5.11 sells pants in XXXXL. :D
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sole source of experience is playing Call of Duty.
But what if you play on the hardest setting? I mean limited ammo and smarter A.I. bruh!!
And you happen to run outta snacks mid mission and it hasn't auto saved!
LOL! I guess if you can survive the spawn point snipers, you're pretty skilled. I'll give them that. I still have a hard time listening to 400lbs gun-store-ninjas with cheeto dust on their shirt fronts thinking they are tactical just because 5.11 sells pants in XXXXL. :D
5.11 sells tactical tents? 2 or 4 man?
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LOL! ;D
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sole source of experience is playing Call of Duty.
But what if you play on the hardest setting? I mean limited ammo and smarter A.I. bruh!!
And you happen to run outta snacks mid mission and it hasn't auto saved!
LOL! I guess if you can survive the spawn point snipers, you're pretty skilled. I'll give them that. I still have a hard time listening to 400lbs gun-store-ninjas with cheeto dust on their shirt fronts thinking they are tactical just because 5.11 sells pants in XXXXL. :D
XXXXL 5.11's...
Why???
Got a chuckle over that!
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OK an update.... hope your sitting down this gets long.
So initially I was going to build a .308 chambered rifle...I had the action/barrel and a nice stock...but then I got into a discussion with my wife regarding why couldn't I build a "nice" gun. She pointed out the Ruger .308 20" barrel we have will shoot MOA all afternoon and it' already scoped and functional. She pointed out I often bitch about the muzzle flash and the fact the scope limits fast target acquisition. So I got to thinking....she is right...I do like that Ruger, and it can shoot, and why build another. We already have one very decent .308 and a few 06's and well honestly I was bored with .30 stuff and out here in windy country....time to play around with something different.
So I put the .308 on hold... which about this time a friend finished the final phase of his bluing tanks project... a idea was born LoL
So I spent many an hour working over the action.. proper Mauser bolt lapping to engage the third lug solidly and then I decided I should try my hand at bolt Jewling.... then I decided a .270 sounded fun and a barrel blank was purchased...then I spent much time on the lathe, but we now have a .270 match grade barrel with a Mauser contour. Then I spent untold hours carefully polishing the action/barrel, as well as fixing sights and all that fun stuff. Then we needed a stock... More thinking and a Mannlicher stock seemed to be fitting so that was purchased/built and fitted. Bedded and floating a stock of this type is tricky...the barrel band on the end exerts pressure on the barrel, and well it's a lot of trial/error and measuring and redoing, but it's now done.
Oh and we blued it....I had so much fun with this we even disguised the barrel to look exactly like a OEM barrel (almost)...a lil gold inlay and cosmetically we have what is basically a stock appearing weapon with a very sweet barrel,a nice stock and it shows well, but does it shoot...
Now on to the story....So just as I finished this complete exercise in reinventing the wheel I was catching some crap about if it shoots...and when was I going to test it. So some of the folks I at times go plinking with were going to the range to see if a fellas custom built M1A would shoot as it should and I tagged along.
I grabbed two boxes of hand loaded hunting rounds a buddy had...Ramshot Magnum and Hornaday SST's 140 grain...they turned out latter to run right at 2950fps from this combination. I also grabbed a off the counter box of 150gr federals and we went to the range.
I loaded up 3 of the Federals and set about getting the sights close and began the process of cycling through 20 cleaning the barrel every 5. In the end we cycled through about 50 rounds and it shoots. It's a clover leaf shooter with no glass at 100 yards on both loads. So... two days latter we ran 50 off the shelf Hornaday through it and again...same result. 1st shot cold it's there...at shot 3 it's still where it belongs.... so a success. I am liking this .270 in the wind in a big way. Everyone that shot it commented how fun it was to shoot at a 100yards with no glass...
The "kid" who made the bet heard through the gossip center/gunshop that my old school hunting rifle shot two boxes of cloverleafs with multiple shooters trying it and he just paid up the bet lmao Rumor has it his SPS was struggling with achieving 1.5" no matter who was pulling the trigger.
So with $1500 booty to burn the next build is started....
My wife snagged a never fired Ar15 lower/buffer and some small parts at a garage sale for $75....I snagged a heavy 18" Chrome Barrel with less than 50 rounds through it for $125 (tacti cool cast off) and I also scored some Mag Paul furniture...I will snag some pics of the .270 latter today if my wife can show me again how to make this phone work. If all goes well I should be able to range test my $500 AR Saturday.
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LOL! Nice! Did the "kid" at least pay you in person, or did he shamefully hand it to your pal at the gunshop to deliver?
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Nice job Norm.
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After all that, can't argue with results for just the price of a barrel and stock.
Pics?
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The kid did hand it to me in person (the $$$) and was willing to admit that maybe everything he reads on the internets regarding guns/shooting might be less than accurate.
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Ok I grabbed a few shots....sorry they are not well placed but it's a phone and I run it poorly.
(http://i.imgur.com/LiEh12W.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YtIetOh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OLmtIgD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fLyhZwe.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aZnpP5R.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XyxMXmd.jpg)
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Just can't picture You owning something that nice (no offense ;) ). Bud, that thing is beautiful
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Very nice work!
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LoL Ken... N thanks guys. A few weekends ago when it was nice we washed up some stuff...
(http://i.imgur.com/wvkoBpv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JEPnOEU.jpg)
We do own some shiny stuff...=P
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Oh and some not shiny stuff recently acquired...
(http://i.imgur.com/wZARpf6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6faJIeq.jpg)
Future projects n stuff LoL
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I got dibs on the snow blower thingy...that's my style!
Oh, better not let Mike see that shiny green thang. lol
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TOO LATE - "Bleap, bleap!" Love Road Runners, Superbirds, Cuda's..........had a '71 Charger in college and I could comfortable seat 7, go way too fast and have room in the trunk for all their stuff coming home on the weekends!
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Nice rifle Norm.
EDIT : I'm saying that ^^ with the preface that I absolutely abhor the Mannlicher stocks.
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Great work. That is a nice looking rifle.
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Norm,
That's some nice shiny stuff you got there, too! ;)
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Great job Norm and glad the kid paid up. At least he did what was right.
Nice toys you go there too!
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Again thanks everyone...
Bobby: It's growing on me in so far as it is well balanced and different than most the rest of our weapons in how it handles. I have even considered building another matching rifle in .300 but that can wait until next winter.
As soon as I finish this AR I am going to focus on some car/truck stuff for a while and get the ground work for the new shop started. It's fun to build them, it's more fun to shoot them.
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A super bee!!!!!!
hat has to be my second favorite muscle car, right behind the Buick GS-X
Love Super-Bees (in Hemi Orange)
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Just can't picture You owning something that nice (no offense ;) ). Bud, that thing is beautiful
Thought the same. Man of many talents.
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Very cool. Cloverleaf at 100 without glass? I can't see that far anymore....
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That's some very fine work! It does look almost original. Fits together very well even if Bobby hates the stock, it fits very well. Glad to hear it shoots to boot. Nice toys. That blower is a monster!
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Very cool. Cloverleaf at 100 without glass? I can't see that far anymore....
I can relate a bit to the can't see that far part, but a bit differently. I have gotten to the point I need reading glasses, my arms are not long enough anymore LoL There is a reason the sights are positioned where they are.
Follow up shot discipline gets me nice groups yet...but if it mattered within a few inches where the shots go initially....I'd need glass on it.
I can ring a 6" gong at 100yards all day, but if you asked for a center of bulls eye shot I'd need glass.
And Don thumbs up on those Buicks... they were real deal muscle. A good running Buick or Olds back in the day was a force to be reckoned with on the street.
In the last few months I have liquidated 7 cars including that Bee, I am making a serious stab at generating enough "mad money" to take a serious stab at something a bit different.
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Very cool. Cloverleaf at 100 without glass? I can't see that far anymore....
In the last few months I have liquidated 7 cars including that Bee, I am making a serious stab at generating enough "mad money" to take a serious stab at something a bit different.
Survival in America after the SHTF.....or Hillary is elected? (Same thing really)
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Very cool. Cloverleaf at 100 without glass? I can't see that far anymore....
I can relate a bit to the can't see that far part, but a bit differently. I have gotten to the point I need reading glasses, my arms are not long enough anymore LoL There is a reason the sights are positioned where they are.
Follow up shot discipline gets me nice groups yet...but if it mattered within a few inches where the shots go initially....I'd need glass on it.
I can ring a 6" gong at 100yards all day, but if you asked for a center of bulls eye shot I'd need glass.
And Don thumbs up on those Buicks... they were real deal muscle. A good running Buick or Olds back in the day was a force to be reckoned with on the street.
In the last few months I have liquidated 7 cars including that Bee, I am making a serious stab at generating enough "mad money" to take a serious stab at something a bit different.
You sold the Super Bee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Darn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've wanted a big fender road scraper, GTX or Super Bee (Ma fav) forever!
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I had a GTX in college. What a car!. Speedo went to 150 and I could peg it and still be pushed back in the seat...
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Yah Don....I saved it from becoming a pro street car years ago...and it needed a new home who'd appreciate it...so I found one. I want to cut back on the toys so I can build more toys LoL Besides I always wanted a Hudson hornet pro touring car... ;D
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Yah Don....I saved it from becoming a pro street car years ago...and it needed a new home who'd appreciate it...so I found one. I want to cut back on the toys so I can build more toys LoL Besides I always wanted a Hudson hornet pro touring car... ;D
Of course,
I understand
Everyone needs a pro touring Hudson
handsmacksforeheadandleavesbigredmark
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That makes 2 of us
(No I don't want a Hudson, I have a mark on my forehead )
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LoL
Well I have the Hudson...the will, and the ability. I should probably buy a few more tools...(tube bender) and I need to secure a plan for a power train...but after the crew cab gets moving... we shall see.
Kay and I spent most of the day Sunday after church shooting my new to me AR and well anyway we have a lot less ammunition now. No thanks to the AR BTW that developed a issue where the bolt sticks so bad it takes two men to remove it...still pending on the "why"
But we each shot our carry weapons 75 rounds or so and hammered out a clean 100 on the .270. The .204 Ruger got 50 rounds or so. We also measured out a 200 yard...300 yard 500 yard 1000 yard and 1500 yard shooting lane. So hopefully with a little ambition we will have a fun place to plink soon.
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^^^^ This is what I like about Norm...He doesn't mess around
When he goes shooting, it's like a thousand rounds on several guns.
When he works on a truck, it is like a resto mod SEMA project.
Get him on generators and he's off in missouri fetchin' hit and miss motors.
I'm good with all that
But
We differ STRONGLY
with tradin up a Super Bee for a Hudson!
Son, seriously?
Miss Kay, where were you during all of this????
I'm just jealous. I want an old Mopar muscle car...(Or a new one...!)
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I want an old Mopar muscle car...(Or a new one...!)
I wouldn't turn down an old one or the new Hellcat with 707 HP.
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I do have to say I have never been a Dodge fan. But that has changed over the last years with their newer cars/trucks
Norm, I would love to have all the projects you have, finished or not. It is that time thing and a little more $$ that gets in the way.
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Could be worse Don...I could be seriously considering building a AMC eagle trail station wagon LoL
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Could be worse Don...I could be seriously considering building a AMC eagle trail station wagon LoL
Are ya?
Might be cool...
Smaller, fits between trees mo-better
Unique (although not Hudson unique!)
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Nah....I intend to stick with the Hudson Pro Touring concept at which point I ever get around to it.
I have a crew cab to put on the road, and a Ar15 to figure out why the bolt carrier group sticks horribly. Priorities n all LoL
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Could be worse Don...I could be seriously considering building a AMC eagle trail station wagon LoL
I've seen a couple AMC Eagles that were built for trail use. They were pretty dadgum awesome, not the mention unique. One was a wagon, the other a coupe. Both had Dana 300 T-cases, and 35" in mud terrains.
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Well I solved the AR15's issues with the bolt sticking. Seems the gas tube was galled oddly. After replacement and two mag dumps, it looks and performs as intended. No noticeable galling after disassemble so I am guessing it was just a freak deal possibly. Maybe tomorrow if I have time I will run 40 or so more through it and see how it handles it. Then if time allows I will see how it shoots at distance.
The .204Ruger upper and .458Socom should be done by next month if I get time to turn the barrels.
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Norm your killing me (not literal of course)