REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
VEHICLES, CAMPERS, and BOATS => Everything Trailer, Camper, or RV related => Topic started by: JR on November 02, 2014, 12:11:16 AM
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Well, not a vehicle but thought I would throw this in here since it comes to Maintenance.
I have a nice 2005 Eclipse 23ft (measures 24?) Toy Hauler that I got for a song a few years back. It was in great shape, even the roof which is EDM rubber an industry standard. They are supposed to last around 10 years with good maitenance which really just means keep it clean, wipe preservative on it and don't abuse it. Keeping it covered or parking indoors is a big plus. The roofs "wear or age" by the surface oxidizing to a fine powder over the years. Rub your hand over it and you will see!
Anyway mine is almost 10 years old and looked good last year I was up there to wipe it down and treat it. Then a few months ago I saw a mushroom growing both inside and outside on the right side above the awning. So I knocked it off and thought some water got in where the screw are for the awning. Saw nothing and promptly forgot about it. So here it is months later and I notice the wall is a little soft inside the electric bunk beds while I'm storing up some food and watching a movie with the kids (12 year old daughter had 10 girls over for her birthday and we needed out!!)
OK, so I remember the issue with the mushroom and check it out the next day and find 3-4 tears on the edge less than a 1/2 long and it is mushy on the edge. So out comes the knife and I cut the roof just a little in from the edge and find a MESS!!!!!!!!!
The OSB is soft or rotten for about 3 ft going in around 3 inches. SO out comes everything I can get at and leave her open to dry out. I find there are 2 crossmembers there which are a little rotten on the end. As I am cleaning it up I am figuring how to address this damage and keep the walk on roof solid.
It took 2 days of on-off cleaning-cutting and vacuuming until I got it to where I am happy. This also allowed it to dry out well since we were having 80f days while keeping it covered at night. Naturally we got rain just as I was ready to start the repair so it got covered in plastic and taped off for a couple days.
The repair will consist of replacing the OSB cut out now to 4"x48" and adding a 2x2 replacing the 1x2 edging that was stock. That will fill the end of the trusses that were trimmed off. I will layer 6oz FG cloth using epoxy resin (doesn't crack like polyester resin). The resin will act like a great glue and the cloth will add the strength lost on the trusses. Inside I braced the ceiling during the repair to keep things fairly level.
Over this area I will use a small EDM patch that overlaps at least 1 inch on the top and will go under the aluminum drip edge like the original roof. Then I will seal the edges with EDM sealant. Then I will recoat the entire roof that is supposed to give another 10 year life.
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You can see the overall condition of the roof is OK but then look at the small rips in the last picture.
Then you can see how bad it really looks inside. The last picture shows some cleanup but a lot to go!!
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Now you have me thinking...
I have a one too. Camper with three slides, like 34 feet long I think.
Same rubber roof. I just winterized it a couple daze ago. Daze??? That's what I was in winterizing it in a driving freezing rain with temps near freezing, all the while wondering why I hadn't done it during a nice 70 degree fall day!
Anyway, I think I'll go score one of those cheapo harbor freight tarps and give it a second covering...
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Glad you found the problem before it sat another winter. Sounds like you know what you are doing, but I will add to be sure the existing rubber is very clean and glued down well and to use the proper primer and application method when doing the final patch.
Did it look like the tears are from contact with something or just an age problem from working against the edge of the OSB? If they were caused because of age maybe need to run some patch material all along both sides at the edges and down under the trim piece before the new roof treatment.
Sure does increase the life span of an RV if it is stored under cover when not in use. Unless you are a full timer the RV spends a lot more time sitting than being used.
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I had gone over the roof a few times and it looked pretty good. Did the scrub filled a few seams on the edges that had lifted and treated it.
The tears I believe were from my kids being up there. It has a ladder in the front (covered now) and the kids thought it was a great way to get onto the house roof. Only about a 2 foot step.
The 3-4 tears were under 1 inch each all in one area about 6 ft from where the kids would jump. I can't say they did but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
As long as your roof is white it is doing its job. When you see grey patches it is beginning to wear. Covers or tarps are great, but not if they rub on the roof.
It is nice out now and I am going to open it up and start the repairs, will post a few more pics.
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Hope it was the kids doing and not other problems. Here is some info on the tape I was referring to
http://www.eternabond.com/RV-Leak-Repair-Products-s/22.htm (http://www.eternabond.com/RV-Leak-Repair-Products-s/22.htm)
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Thanks for the link. I am using repair tape made for this also but more info is better!
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This is the cover I use for the RV
(http://)
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That's nice!
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That's nice!
Yup, mine is parked next to my garage that is 2 story. I plan on building something very similar soon.
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So here it is trimmed to 4x48 and dried out. You see the damage to the cross-members and the 1x2 edging has been removed. The edge will be replaced by a 2x2.
The alum drip rail was loosed up and the damaged roofing removed. The patch will be under this edge like the roof was for a better seal. Oh, and duct tape barely sticks to this but kept me good for a day of rain :D
Believe me, it looks so much better than it was!
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Do you plan on treating the rotted area of the remaining wood with a penetrating epoxy like Get Rot or CPES to stop further rot and regain strength in the rotted area? I have not had to use these but have heard good things about them. Used a lot up here on boats, RV, and homes with leak problems.
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I will look into that. Very little rot left really but why not do it right.
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Great post... Really makes me want to get up on top of ours and take a good look. It's a 2014, and nobody but me has been up there, but still probably good to have a nice look around. Crazy how fast things can get ruined with a little water isn't it...
Couple things I need to do anyway:
1) use the rubber gasket conditioner on the rubber seals around the slide surrounds.
2) lube the fittings on the retractable TV antenna. They say twice a year, and I believe it. never done it in the last year and i can tell it's getting harder to get up and down.
3) clean the pine needles/dirt out of the "gutters"
Another thing I noticed is my battery boxes filled up with water from road spray/condensation. So I drilled a couple small holes on the aft/bottom of the trays to ensure any water drains out.
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This thread is exactly the reason for checking the roof area on our RV's. JR is lucky he found the problem before any more damage was done. Very important to check all the roof openings and roof ladder attachments to be sure the lap sealer is doing the job, add some lap sealer to any areas that look weak. Do a once over of the roof checking for tears or worn areas, like under the tv antenna, or where you drove under the low branch that rubbed the whole way down the roof. Check the front and rear joint strip if there is one and along the sides where the rubber is held down with a metal strip. Check for loose rubber spots, they will keep growing and look like a big balloon while going down the road if not caught early on.
The floor in the slide out is another place to keep an eye on as lots of manufactures use a treated fabric on the underside of the slide. there are screws put up through it after the fabric is installed to hold the walls in place. The water can/will wick right up the screws and rot out the whole floor in time. Check all the openings on the side walls like windows, doors, lights, and appliances.
You are doing a good job on the repair JR, lots of work involved but well worth it in the end. A neighbor in a campground a couple years ago had a mobile repair guy stop by to see if he could repair a bad spot in the roof. The guy estimated around 2,500 dollars unless it turned out to be worse then what he saw at the time. That was down in Pismo Beach. The trailer was kept on the property and drug out to a site each time the people came in for a stay, so no one ever looked at the roof for overall condition until it was too late.
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Coming right along!
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We should make a "Mobile Dwelling/RV" page 8)
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We should make a "Mobile Dwelling/RV" page 8)
Yep, with all the towing many of us do or having that bug-out trailer it would fit right in.
(man I have to pre-read these more :( )
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We should make a "Mobile Dwelling/RV" page 8)
RV Page...We just might do that
Let's see how it all develops, but I'm up for it!
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Well, I got her cleaned out good and all dry.
There were several tears where the water was coming in.
Got some Minwax for the Rot and some Rustolium for the truss plates that were beginning to corrode.
At first I got some other brand that I found was water based!! Wait, water to fix water, no way. The Minwax is solvent based and you junk the brush so off to my box of HF brushes.
The Minwax goes on until you get a sheen from the wood. I probably used 1/2 the pint can letting it soak in good.
You can see the worst of the trusses here too, got the real bad out, sealed-hardened the rest.
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Ok, let this dry for a while and applied the stop rust from Rustolium. After applying it turned some the oxidation greenish, so looks like it is doing the job.
So a cup of coffee, another HF brush and a couple lights since it was getting dark.
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When you look close you can see how the wood has split and rotted. The side skin is smooth, but is just FG over wood. I had to remove about a 2 ft wood section of an edge support and unscrewed the drip edge that held it all together. I will replace this with a 2x2 that overlaps some of it and all the ceiling that had warped from the water.
I will use tack the ceiling down first, then use FG as a glue with the new 2x2 hold it all together, then fill the one truss that needs it and lap the FG to them all making a big solid repair.
I also found that the ceiling sagging needed some support before the repair was done to keep it all straight. So used a couple 4x4s and a 2x6 on top of the electric bed and lifted it up just a tad over straight. Then I shoved a 2x4 into the drape holder making it level. That gave me at least a 1/4 gap from the wall which is another reason to tack it down so all that FG doesn't just run down inside.
You can see other cracks in the were the sealant is pulling away.
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Your roof looks like my in-laws 5th Wheel when we started! WE had to remove street side wall and replace everything because of the rot! The rubber roof was never maintained , had to fix the small tears with Dicor Tape then cleaned and coated the roof with this rubber roof coating, Worked Great No More Leaks!!
http://www.richfieldtrailer.com/products-page/roof-coating-repair/hengs-rubber-roof-coating-46128/
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa357/kampfitt/USVPMWDNBDY08/my_pix/0311131432.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/kampfitt/media/USVPMWDNBDY08/my_pix/0311131432.jpg.html)
I'll try to get pics of finished roof tonight
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Your roof looks like my in-laws 5th Wheel when we started! WE had to remove street side wall and replace everything because of the rot! The rubber roof was never maintained , had to fix the small tears with Dicor Tape then cleaned and coated the roof with this rubber roof coating, Worked Great No More Leaks!!
http://www.richfieldtrailer.com/products-page/roof-coating-repair/hengs-rubber-roof-coating-46128/
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa357/kampfitt/USVPMWDNBDY08/my_pix/0311131432.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/kampfitt/media/USVPMWDNBDY08/my_pix/0311131432.jpg.html)
I'll try to get pics of finished roof tonight
Yee-ouch!
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Another option on the coating, thx. Just need to do a little more research there as I see the coatings from $60 to almost $200 for a gallon. Some are 2 part and some are not.
Guess I will look into a little more. I have a snake camera and there are a couple spots in the repair area where wires come up. With mine though the repairs would need to be done from the inside with the FB outside.
By the way, Welcome to the mess,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Ok, finally got a little time to finish this up. Well, there is good news and bad.
Good news is the repair is going great. Removed the brace and the ceiling is solid and stays right where it should.
Bad news is there maybe lots more damage than I thought to the wall. I found a part that looks like its delaminated and there is a stain on the other side of the bed rail. Good news about all this is the folding bed and the other things mounted seem solid. So I am going to open this up some and see the real damage is. Hopefully it is more superficial and just needs to dry out with minimal repair.
So here are a few picks of the repair.
First I fitted the 2x2 slotted to overlap for a little more strength. This also filled the gap when the trusses were cut out and helped to hold the wood down a little.
It needed shaving to match up so out came the power plane while it was clamped down in the Rockwell Workhorse. If you have never seen these they are great! I use it for anything you can think of of from welding to simple woodwork.
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I got new hardware and added a couple screws from up top that holds the wood to the frame. I used stainless screws on the drip rail holding it all together.
For glue, the epoxy resin and a few layers of 5 oz cloth should do the trick just fine. I laid the first sheet in and up the wall, applied resin, placed the 2x2 in and added screws. Then I filled the truss and layered in more cloth both over and up all the edges to the trusses.
It all hardened up nice so I trimmed a little and covered it as the rain was coming. I want to get this buttoned up before we get real rain. Plus I want to open up the inside to see if there is any really bad news giving it a chance to dry out.
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Pulled out the braces and it looks good. I showed the before pic here to so it is easy to compare.
Then I found the other water damage, need to open this up quick!
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The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, or tearing into the trailer wall!!
The Good, very little if any rot found. Its wet but there is a steel frame.
The Bad, I didn't get this earlier and now have more work to do.
The Ugly (besides me) is finding both fungus and more mushrooms growing inside the TH.
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OK, now for pics;
After unbolting the seat and bed rail I cut around the affected area.
Found a mushroom growing behind a seat bracket.
All the screws that came out felt solid. Sure they were a little corroded but they were still doing their job.
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So now comes the tearoff. Wasn't all that bad really. The wood was delaminating itself than rotting. The water had dripped down between the steel frame and the insulating foam and ended up near the seat mounts. There was wood for mounting the seats too and only a small area was really bad and it was soft not rotten.
The wall looks to be 1/8 ply with the wall paper cover and that is glued to the frame and foam. Much of the black you see is glue for the wall paper as some still wants to stay put. I did find some fungus about eye level behind the bed rail. This is the right where the wet spot shows by the bed rail.
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I am going to have to remove the bed rail to do this right. I have it opened up pretty well right now and have a heater in there drying it out. I will let this go for a few days as I finish the roof off.
I am sure there will be more teardown just to make sure it is solid and dry.
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Ooooh Nooooo!
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Ooooh Nooooo!
I really think it could have been a lot worse, just wish I had done this sooner.
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Sorry man, that doesn't look so good from here. Hope the damage is only in the one area. Before spending a bunch of money on the roof coating, check all the areas inside cabinets and other places that don't dry easy for any more staining.
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It looks pretty local. In fact some of the dark areas are glue and not damage which is why the paper is not coming off easy.
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Yikes, that looks nasty. I hope you're right and it is just local to that area.
That is my one fear with mine, as it's just a big can of worms when something happens.
All in very tight confines, glued, and no fun.
Looks like you are doing a fine job.
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Seems to be drying out very well and not finding anymore damage. I am actually quite happy with it.
Looks like up high I will have to reinforce some wood that is really mushy still, but I also maybe balsa wood by the touch and location. I am going to contact Eclipse and try to find out.
As for the finished repair I think I am going to fill the voids with foam, sand the surface smooth and fill it with, well I don't know yet. I am thinking FG which would tie it all together and give me a smooth surface to apply new wall paper. Other option would be to get a new 1/8 panel from eclipse and glue it on top.
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OK, so with rain and coming and the inside drying I took to the roof again.
Fitted a new piece of ply to the opening, then added a 1/8 reinforcement joining the panels.
First I put new insulation in and glued the puppies in.
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A little more glue and a few more screws and she is looking good.
Still need to fill the edges some as the new wood and the old OSB just don't see edge to edge well all the way around.
Thinking of using flexible body filler unless someone has a better idea. Could even mix sawdust with epoxy resin.
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Better be careful about how deeply you tear into this thing.
I am somewhat of an authority about little projects turning into major ones.
When you start with repacking the wheel bearings and then deciding on the need to stiffen and lift the suspension a bit, we'll all know the balance has shifted toward the 5 year "Oil change-plan!"
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Better be careful about how deeply you tear into this thing.
I am somewhat of an authority about little projects turning into major ones.
When you start with repacking the wheel bearings and then deciding on the need to stiffen and lift the suspension a bit, we'll all know the balance has shifted toward the 5 year "Oil change-plan!"
Funny thing is I do need to check the bearings and brakes. BUT HOW WOULD THAT EVER TURN INTO A BIGGER JOB?
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this is what you have to look forward to on your trailer don, if you dont practice good PMCS.....
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Well, just got off the phone with eclipse and there is no way to get the wall paper to match what I have torn off. In fact I was told the wall is a composite type structure so just fill and covering would not retain the original strength of the wall.
So the plan is to clean off what I can. Fill the voids with expanding foam and glue a new 1/8 panel over the exposed area with a covering to match. Of course this may just change to gluing on a panel alone, then painting to match the wall covering. I also know a guy who does vinyl sheets and may ask him if the pattern could be matched from a picture.
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Man, following this along makes me cringe that our trailer is stored outside (until Thanksgiving weekend, at which time i put it in my Grampa's shop)...
And really makes me want to get our new place under construction soon so i can start planning my own shop.
Great work, and sorry you have to deal with this! Thanks for sharing too, great lesson for all.
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Good time to install some steel plate (Armor) ;)
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God time to install some steel plate (Armor) ;)
You just couldn't help it could you Don. If he is going to add armor he will first need to upgrade the frame, axles, and tires. Kind of like an oil change right?
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I am building a cover for this soon. Just happen to have a 2 story garage where I park it and just poured 3 DEEP fence-posts next to it just for that purpose.
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God time to install some steel plate (Armor) ;)
You just couldn't help it could you Don. If he is going to add armor he will first need to upgrade the frame, axles, and tires. Kind of like an oil change right?
Exactly, Bob
Just like a complete service, err oil change!
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Here are the pics of the roof coating we did it looks like white bed liner did a great job on the inlaws older roof, no leaks now!
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa357/kampfitt/IMG_20141207_161620_553.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/kampfitt/media/IMG_20141207_161620_553.jpg.html)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa357/kampfitt/IMG_20141207_161645_481.jpg) (http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/kampfitt/media/IMG_20141207_161645_481.jpg.html)
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What coating is that?
I didn't get a chance to finish my repair and it is taped over and tarped waitng for the rain to stop.
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Hey, JR, I might have missed it, but how old is that roof? Has it been out in the sunlight all this time? I am gauging the lifespan of my roof...wondering how long it might last...
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Its a 2005 trailer. I've had it for about 4 years now. The right side was faded when I got it which is the same side as the leak. I can't complain about the life of the roof, I have heard 8-10 years and mine is parked outside and we have seen cooking sun for months the last few years.
I think 2 -3 years is when I would really start paying attention but us the UV protector every year.
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It was the same with the in-laws 5th wheel sat outside no cover , roof was in bad shape, camper not worth the money for whole new roof, so I patched the weakest spots with Rubber Roof tape, then coated the whole roof. My wife took the 5th wheel and her parents camping a lot this past summer and no leaks in a lot of heavy rain. This coating worked great for the money even it I have to recoat it after a few years for $60 a gal. used 1 gal. on 22ft roof.
http://www.richfieldtrailer.com/products-page/roof-coating-repair/hengs-rubber-roof-coating-46128/
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You cover the whole roof with that stuff annually?
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You cover the whole roof with that stuff annually?
No, there is a protectant that helps with the UV that you put every year. About $25 a gal and lasts a few years.
The coating is when the roof gets old or you have other issues. It runs $60 and up a gallon and takes a day of prep and sometimes a few days to cure.
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Copy
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I may have missed it JR? whats the final verdict, how did it all turn out and are there any new leaks? pics?
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OK, finally got this little bugger fixed up. The roof is sealed but found 2 little other cracks and a vent went bad.
I believe the real culprit here is age and location. Not so much my location but where this came from. It is 10 years old now and the right side is faded worse than the left. That is also where all the cracks are.
So it needs a recoat very bad which will have to be this year before the rainy season (if we ever get one again)
Cleaned it up mostly simple green, then sorta primed it using Xytol. It had duct tape sticky all over keeper odd weather out.
So first thing was to fill the void I had made during the first repair. Just a good sheet of roof repair, then seal the edges with seam sealer.
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Next I cut a sheet of patch about 1 inch bigger all the way around. This stuff is like human flypaper. I lost about 6 inches off the first sheet and just had enough left to do the repair (always by extra, don't do this when hot and have help) I did 2 out those 3,,,,,,,,,,,, ::)
You have to wrap this under the edge that clamps it down, you don't have a lot of room and did I say this stuff was sticky???
Oh, and guess what happens to Simple Green when it gets hot, SEPARATION!!!
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After it was worked flat, tucked in and gone over again. I sealed the edges.
I also redid the awning edge and got those 2 other little splits. One was about 6 inches in front of this and the other was under the edge of the fridge cover. I noticed the upper edge on his side is much rougher than the other side. Actually, the rest of the roof looks pretty good and is smooth with the gray powder nice and even.
Had a little sealer left so I got the old tank vent that had gone bad last year. The other was replaced the year before but needed some touch up as was was cracked all around the base.
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Next come the inside wall and a soft spot under this leak on the floor!!!!!!!!!!
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looks like you will be following kens example on how to apply a new roof seal
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looks like you will be following kens example on how to apply a new roof seal
Yup, was already looking there,,,,,,,,,,,
The finish he di was great, should give another 10 years and easier to recoat.
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Can't believe this repair was 5 years ago!
The roof has not faired well at all in the time. Kept it covered a year or 2 and now it is open again. Going to move it up to my land soon as the pad is cut.
Went to check it yesterday as we are expecting rain tomorrow and it has little tears all over the 2 sides. It needs a new roof, but no time this year, so some repair is in order.
Ran down to Lowes and got a 5 gal of this roof sealer (might get used on container too). https://www.lowes.com/pd/BLACK-JACK-Elasto-Kool-1000-5-Gallon-Elastomeric-Reflective-Roof-Coating-10-Year-Limited-Warranty/3013309
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Picked up a box of chip brushes when I got another awning at HF today and had at it.
Little tears down both sides and cracks in a lot of the seals after the years.
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Didn't clean it all as I should but slopped it on thick.
Did along the front seal and vents too as well as the ladder and antenna.
Hoping this gets me through a couple months as I clear the pad and put an awning up for it. It is really in good shape inside less the section I repaired.
Just dropped new batteries in it, gen runs great with 5 year old gas and AC is cold.
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Bottom line is keep your trailer covered!!!
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Sounds like you caught it in time
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Lots of folks up here build a pole barn to park these under and attach a deck. Much like Don did but with a complete roof. Is that your future plan?
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Perhaps a lean to off the side of the seacan or a second seacan and span between to form a covered area (that’s my plan)
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Lots of folks up here build a pole barn to park these under and attach a deck. Much like Don did but with a complete roof. Is that your future plan?
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And BTW. I plan to extend a metal roof over the whole thing in the spring
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I am going to fully coat it. It did rain this AM so I just caught it.
Needs something up there for sure. Thinking of the seacan idea as a shop might be a few years off. Possibly a cover next to the can, then extend that like a lean to over the can.
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So lasts year, I did some quick repairs on the roof after this. A roof coating made for roofs from lowes. They make a really good stuff for trailers but not in Ca.
A month ago I found a couple tears on the left side and more damage on the inside left wall now.
Got my youngest up there and touched up the tears and coated the entire roof this time. Then it started to drizzle, a day earlier than cast! It will get a couple more coats at least after this. No delamination so the TH is solid.
It is going to go up to the Ridge right after 1st of the year. Biggest thing is getting it cleaned out, it holds most of our camping gear and long term food stash right now.
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What’s the rules on a pole shelter for it? Might consider a cover over it.
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I have, kinda sketchy on the rules.
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That's what I want to do in Idaho, mostly for snow load. Use some 6-8" cedars, poles and rafters, then r panel.
Wish I hadn't lifted the trailer. Would make the job easier not having to build 14 plus feet off the ground.
... unless using the trailer as a platform. Hmm
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Trailer roof is pretty bad but all sealed up now. Ended up using 2gal of Hengs rubber roof coating.
Besides the damage I first reported a small portion on the ceiling has come down some. Still staying up on its own, but not a good sign at all.
I have now closed all the vents and running a small space heater to dry it out best I can. I will probably put a 2x4 up to stop anymore damage and access more as I clean it up for the move. Everything else is working great, even the gen fired up with just a little fudging.
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what is the thing going to look like after the controlled earthquake moving it to the hide? Hope you can stabilize the damage from the leaking roof. You have spent a lot of time repairing the leaking roof on that thing. If the kids haven't been playing on top of it, there must be some other leaking going on.
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Honestly man list it or put it in the next forest fire and get on. There is more roof patch on that trailer then trailer
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I can still walk on it, but the section there is soft. Probably 2 X members. Really just 2 patches and a couple layers of sealer now.
Once I get it up there it will keep me dry/cool an give me a place to clean up and poop. Once I get the shop dried in, I can tear the top off and do it right.
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There is 100% benefit to a place too poop. I will no long encourage the other option. Carry on
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Glad I have you approval. This thing sleeps 8 easily. Like a mansion for me.