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Offline wyorunner

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1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« on: August 11, 2015, 12:56:10 AM »
Hey Everybody,

I have included the links to the truck we are looking at buying, any and all input is greatly appreciated, if this is not allowed I apologize and please delete the thread, I didn't see this as being a no go in the rules (and yes I did read them, unless there is fine print that is not clearly labeled READ ME). The plan is to purchase this truck and a parts donor, and put in a 12valve cummins. There is an 91 donor in Tucson which would be a great option except from what I understand is it has a rotary pump instead of a p-pump that the 94-98.5 have. Now, I am new to the cummins so do forgive me if I am mistaken.

My concerns with the build truck,
-closed knuckle dana 70 up front, difficult or not possible to install disc brakes
-body rust as noted by seller during phone calls that has been repaired via cut out and new floor pans installed
-Entire drivetrain mounts will have to be fabbed, from what I understand (not a real concern just an awareness really)
-I guess thats it.

Links to build truck
http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/classifieds/law-041715-74.php
http://billings.es.craigslist.org/cto/5136187452.html

Mods If this does not belong here or is not allowed please remove and let me know what I can do to correct it and continue to seek advice, much appreciated.

Turner

Offline Nate

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 07:31:04 AM »
Decent looking truck tor it being 40+years old and a farm style at that, a bit high on the $$$, with the engine work being done on it you could sell that along with the front axle to recoup some of the cost or finance some of the build.
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 08:22:50 AM »
There are plenty of people out there looking for that closed knuckle 70 for resto projects that would pay a pretty penny if it's in good shape, but I would not run that with any confidence for a usable axle. I would look for an 8 lug 93 and older d60 front out of a w250 or w350 or a 78-79 ford 60 high pinion. If you have to fab up mounts anyway, now would be the time to do some transplant surgery. Parts are difficult to source and no aftermarket HD components are available at all. Other than that, I would look for frame deterioration, cracks etc at the stress points if there was body rust that had already been dealt with. You never know what someone has overlooked or is hiding. Really great vehicle to mod up in my opinion.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2015, 09:16:53 AM »
Frame cracks around the steering box, check that
Jungle Jim sells a stiffening kit which you saw me install on Square D
Cowl cracks are common and no big deal
IMHO, the rotary pump is the way to go for a reliable every day driver truck. P-Pump is a lot more powerful (Maybe too much power??)
Copy what Tate said on the D70. With the connections you'll make here and with Tate, sell the D70 and the 440 and recoup 50% of what you paid for the truck.
Adding a bed? Or leaving it a flatbed?
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2015, 10:30:10 AM »
Turner, in case you didn't know, Tate is the resident differential expert.
Oh heck, I guess big D is pretty smart as well, but I wouldn't listen to him. :)
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 12:38:07 PM »
There are plenty of people out there looking for that closed knuckle 70 for resto projects that would pay a pretty penny if it's in good shape, but I would not run that with any confidence for a usable axle. I would look for an 8 lug 93 and older d60 front out of a w250 or w350 or a 78-79 ford 60 high pinion. If you have to fab up mounts anyway, now would be the time to do some transplant surgery. Parts are difficult to source and no aftermarket HD components are available at all. Other than that, I would look for frame deterioration, cracks etc at the stress points if there was body rust that had already been dealt with. You never know what someone has overlooked or is hiding. Really great vehicle to mod up in my opinion.

If I can find one, I'd love to have the high pinion ford. But of course I will gladly install an older 8 lug d60 from a w250 or w350. Have any options laying around?



Frame cracks around the steering box, check that
Jungle Jim sells a stiffening kit which you saw me install on Square D
Cowl cracks are common and no big deal
IMHO, the rotary pump is the way to go for a reliable every day driver truck. P-Pump is a lot more powerful (Maybe too much power??)
Copy what Tate said on the D70. With the connections you'll make here and with Tate, sell the D70 and the 440 and recoup 50% of what you paid for the truck.
Adding a bed? Or leaving it a flatbed?

Did not know that D70 was a desirable item. When I began looking into them, my first thought was "great ive got a big drumbrake front axle that can't be reworked," so hearing this news is great. I had planned on selling the 440 and np435. When I read about that kit from Jungle Jim it was something that I added to the list. Not sure about the bed. Wife and I have talked about both options, the reason the flat bed gets a vote is so that when we move again, which is inevitable, if we have a fifth wheel both trailers will have a tow rig. Would love to create a "topper" of sorts for the flat bad that could be easily removed, something that utilizes the 2x4 holes on the side of the flat bed.

Anybody on here up in Billings? Or want to take road trip?

Turner, in case you didn't know, Tate is the resident differential expert.
Oh heck, I guess big D is pretty smart as well, but I wouldn't listen to him. :)

I thought that was the case, from reading Square D build.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 12:47:15 PM by wyorunner »

Offline EL TATE

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 02:08:35 PM »
I don't have any housings, but 1993 working back to 1975 with INTERNAL locking hubs w250/w350 are ideal, and 1991-1977 gm will work as well. external selectro hubs are no bueno, just ask JR. Norm, aka " Ol'Kooter" might be able to hook you up w/ std internal type hubs to convert if you find a deal on the external type hubbed axle, given his dana treasure trove. nothing particularly wrong w/ the selectros, they just aren't in production anymore and you can't put anything else on there.

D70 closed knuckle front dodge isn't desirable per say, but to a powerwagon fanatic that wants to resto w/ factory parts they are priceless. check the powerwagon forums for fishing expeditions and get a good feel for real market value before you undersell.

where are you at? I have a lot of distributors all over that may have housings for you.
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OldKooT

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 04:30:49 PM »
Sorry.....I am late to the discussion. We were in Wisconsin at our sons wedding, and I left anything that looked like technology at home. On to your questions....

First off that truck in your link doesn't look all bad... a few things to be aware of.

It's a 1974, it will need most if not all the underhood/dash rewired. In the end that's a good thing, Dodge wiring is lame on it's best day. It's also not that expensive or difficult.

It's a crew cab (I own one myself) roof rust is a HUGE problem in these rucks. Drip rails, above the doors and windshield being common areas. Even real nice southern trucks at times have bad roofs. The factory did a horrible job of seam sealing the roof panels. The fleet trucks were the worst by far. This truck having floor patching done suggests it has roof leaks as well as possibly the typical Dodge cowl cracks. This could be a REAL problem... it may be no big deal, hands on inspection is the answer to this issue. This BTW is true of all Crew cab 1st gen trucks, none were exempt. Some are much worse than others.... so be aware.

It's worth a bit less without the rust free 74 vintage shortbox... They are worth a grand minimal if you desired one at some point.

1974 Has a different style steering box than the 80 and newer models. So not a huge deal, but a issue to remember when swapping axles/steering stuff. The HVAC systems are also much different in the earlier trucks vs latter. This again isn't a huge deal...but will require welding skills if you wish to update to the newer more efficient style AC/Heat.

1974 Will be a divorced transfer case design if it's still all original. This is again not a big deal, but does pose challenges in a Cummins swap. Obvious cross member differences, as well as fuel tank and other small issues arise.

Dana 70 front Dodge axles were almost all 4.88 gears. The OEM Dana 60 rear that should be under this crew should be 4.10. I would ask about this....as either the gear ratios don't match, the owner changed them to match, or he found a rare 4.10 Dodge front Dana 70. How did we/you determine it's a closed knuckle design?

All in all, from a Cummins swap perspective.... you will use the frame and body and little else. Food for thought.... but the 1985 Crews were a better candidate for the 12V swap in this regard. But they do not have the "look" of the more vintage power wagon era trucks.

If you have any more in depth questions.... PM me your # and a time to call, and I'd be happy to give you a more detailed explanation of what your needing to consider for your intended plans.




Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 05:07:55 PM »
Turner, in case you didn't know, Tate is the resident differential expert.
Oh heck, I guess big D is pretty smart as well, but I wouldn't listen to him. :)
I heard that! ;)

Go with Tater, he be da man...and Ken or Norm here. They've seen a wrench or two

Norm, that was excellent and should be a big help...so many good tips there!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 05:24:20 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline Nate

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 06:07:57 PM »
norm droppin it like its hot.

where were yah in WI norm?
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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 08:05:40 PM »
Our Son lives in Lacrosse, but they got married near Wis Dells where we used to live.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 10:10:39 PM »
http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/classifieds/kowal-070615-77.php

A low mileage one.  I'm not a dodge aficionado so it may be garbage, but looks cool.

I've hopped the puddle jumpers across to Onalaska, WI a few times.  Once I swear Chris Farley was the copilot and we were being rearranged by weight.....
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OldKooT

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2015, 07:52:36 AM »
I'd guess that truck is most likely a gem. Being a fire rig, it's been indoors, so roof rust should be  complete non issue. If someone was interested, i'd be happy to spin up to Omaha and give it a close look. I should buy it myself, but I need to finish the one I have first. That and I need to practice being broke.... this retirement stuff is going to be interesting.

 

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 08:10:36 AM »
I hear you Kooter.  The sad part is that I'm trying to eyeball the finish line and my daughters are 9 and 11....talk about unrealistic expectations...
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2015, 08:19:53 AM »
Ok, Tate and koot thanks for the info it is much appreciated. Both of you please check your pm and give me a call if possible. I'm currently south of SLC headed to billings, and for all intents and purposes this truck is already claimed as purchased, and unless it's in terrible condition it will be coming back to AZ with me. I am stopping in Pocatello to look at a couple things, a front axle out of an M880 is part of that stop.

More to follow after each stop!


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2015, 11:19:19 AM »
Ok, Tate and koot thanks for the info it is much appreciated. Both of you please check your pm and give me a call if possible. I'm currently south of SLC headed to billings, and for all intents and purposes this truck is already claimed as purchased, and unless it's in terrible condition it will be coming back to AZ with me. I am stopping in Pocatello to look at a couple things, a front axle out of an M880 is part of that stop.

More to follow after each stop!


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You need to do a pic write-up of your adventure. This is the sort of thing many dream about and some actually do. Share that with all, then do the build thread and sow into other's lives as well.

I appreciate you sharing all this!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2015, 11:20:01 AM »
I'd guess that truck is most likely a gem. Being a fire rig, it's been indoors, so roof rust should be  complete non issue. If someone was interested, i'd be happy to spin up to Omaha and give it a close look. I should buy it myself, but I need to finish the one I have first. That and I need to practice being broke.... this retirement stuff is going to be interesting.

 
Norm,

Is this the sort of thing that one of us SHOULD buy, just to make sure it gets into the right hands?
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OldKooT

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2015, 12:46:31 PM »
Don without seeing it (the fire truck) I can't say for sure. But if someone has a desire to build a crew cab Dodge it sure looks to be a decent starting point. The price is a bit rich for my taste, but maybe I am just cheap LoL






Offline Nate

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 01:38:22 PM »
a farmer is not cheap norm, they have just learned to make better judgements....;D
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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2015, 01:57:56 PM »
Nate.....I might be cheap LoL My wife has this saying she uses on me, it goes like this.

"I see once again in some dire attempt to be frugal, you once again defaulted to cheap" She usually has a point, but it's a personal demon LoL

I can't be the only one in the world that attempts to negotiate the price of groceries. I grow that stuff, it's way overpriced man.

Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 12:32:41 PM »


Still love my home state of Wyoming!


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Offline moto123

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 12:56:02 PM »
Congrats!  Can't wait to hear more about it once you return home and can really start digging in.  It made me laugh that it's basically the same color as your sierra. :)

OldKooT

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2015, 07:50:28 PM »
Congrats man...... now get home safe and sound and start building, so I have motivation to finish ours LoL



Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2015, 09:46:18 PM »
Good for you

Have an adventure in the works here

Going to start with a fluid change?? :o
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2015, 09:58:14 PM »
Good for you

Have an adventure in the works here

Going to start with a fluid change?? :o

Ahh yes... the oil change.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2015, 10:14:42 PM »
Good for you

Have an adventure in the works here

Going to start with a fluid change?? :o

Ahh yes... the oil change.
Fluid...not oil

Oil change is only a 1 year proposition...
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2015, 10:33:31 PM »
Nope not doing any liquid changes, drains or replacements. Oh wait I'll be draining the radiator! The drivetrain will be out in short order! Hopefully another heart will show up quick.


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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2015, 10:37:03 PM »
Nope not doing any liquid changes, drains or replacements. Oh wait I'll be draining the radiator! The drivetrain will be out in short order! Hopefully another heart will show up quick.


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It's local lingo Turner  ;D

I think C-max went in for an Oil Change... and Square D was a total fluid replacement (still in progress as a matter of fact!).
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2015, 10:53:17 PM »

Nope not doing any liquid changes, drains or replacements. Oh wait I'll be draining the radiator! The drivetrain will be out in short order! Hopefully another heart will show up quick.


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It's local lingo Turner  ;D

I think C-max went in for an Oil Change... and Square D was a total fluid replacement (still in progress as a matter of fact!).

I knew what they were talking about. If only from watching square d. C max was done before I even knew of it. I was simply just making a statement of intention, to stay away from the simple fluid changes, because they can last a long time if we're not careful!


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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2015, 10:57:53 PM »
Ha ok good. Just making sure!


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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2015, 05:45:30 AM »

Still love my home state of Wyoming!


I do as well.  I left Pinedale 30 years ago to fly helicopters for the Army.  Best place to live IMHO…

BTW, nice Powerwagon.  I have a '75 that does NOT have the divorced transfer case.

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2015, 07:18:18 AM »
1975 was the first year Dodge went to the Np203 full time case, and most were of a married configuration. I wish we had a good source for Dodge Crew Cab production broken down by year... I suspect 1975 is one of the lowest production years built of that body style.

It's cool, we have a fair collection of Crew Cab Dodges here in our midst. A couple standard cab 12V trucks, and a few 12V Ramchargers. No shortage of Dodge projects.



 


Offline Dustoff35

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2015, 07:31:56 AM »
The U.S. Forest Service used to have a bunch of 70's & 80's Dodge crew cab trucks with step side beds when I was in high school, doing oil-changes at a local service station.  We had a service contract with the USFS so I did a lot of work on them.  I thought they were the ugliest things on 4 wheels at the time.  Now I own a power wagon crew of the same vintage and think its pretty cool.  Go figure...   

Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2015, 10:49:34 PM »
Well, made it home without any issues. I sure do love my duramax! Finished driving at 0230 Friday morning. 

Useless information from the trip: (but still interesting)

2953.2 miles
41:14 hrs of drivetime
208.1 gal of diesel
14.67 mpg, (average from the receipts)

unloaded (empty trailer as I had the flatbed the entire time) I was seeing between 18 and 20, best was 20.6.

Avg price of diesel ended up being 2.58

Now a question, should the ensuing build stay within this thread, or a new one be started?





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Offline rasimmo

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2015, 11:17:10 PM »
I vote keep it here. Keeps the whole story together.

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2015, 12:20:10 AM »
This thread seems as good as any! Can change the subject if you want


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2015, 08:14:35 AM »
I'd say new one

Write up a readers digest version of the trip, then start. Cut and paste as necessary.

Your call, of course
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Offline JR

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2015, 02:50:38 PM »
Nice haul all the way around. That fire truck though with just 14k would have been a shame to tear down.

New thread sounds good, but link it to this in the last post. That way anyone can find the whole story.

Wonder if it will run before SD runs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2015, 09:09:26 PM »
Nice haul all the way around. That fire truck though with just 14k would have been a shame to tear down.

New thread sounds good, but link it to this in the last post. That way anyone can find the whole story.

Wonder if it will run before SD runs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I bet so...
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2015, 12:21:39 AM »
Have to find a donor first. Once that shows up, well then I'll be all over like flies on stink, we could really use to have this truck operational with the 12v. The 440, while indeed a runner, is not conducive for a daily driver. Once it's a 12v and running, well then we will see some fixing up of the things needing love.


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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2015, 12:24:49 AM »
Anybody have a NP205 and a front axle forsale? I found a 2wd with the getrag in Phoenix which would certainly do the job, only issue is I need 4wd, and don't like the divorced transfer case, nor the closed knuckle 70.


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Offline JR

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2015, 11:34:56 AM »
They are all over out here. Sometimes pricey, sometimes not.

Would be another drive, but not with a trailer.
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2015, 12:03:55 AM »



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Offline JR

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2015, 12:21:01 AM »
That was fast. Lay out what you have please!
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 1974 W200 Possible Purchase and build
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2015, 01:38:55 AM »
Thanks for all the input, please see http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=1312.0 for the true build thread, or so I hope!

 

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