REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
WEAPONS => Firearms => Topic started by: wilsonphil on November 17, 2015, 04:48:44 PM
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Ok Don per your request, some firearm stuff. This is my first 1911 build, the frame was an 80% and the slide was from Brownells, the internal parts were from Sarco. This is a series 70, not very challenging took about 45min to do the machining the most involved job was fitting the hammer and sear. Function check good, now I just need to put some sights on it and put a few hundred rounds thru it. after that I will take it back apart and do prep for coating. Not sure what I will use for coating.
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I like it. Duracoat is a good option, what color you going with or the standard black?
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Like it
Clean, basic, dependable, .45...
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I like it. Duracoat is a good option, what color you going with or the standard black?
I have had good luck with Duracoat but I think Im going to give Cerakote a try this time.
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Cerakote
I couldn't remember what the other option was, so thank you. I knew it, but I couldn't pull it from the mental filing cabinet.
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I just took my colt apart to clean, and also thought about coating it. Stainless and reflection seem to go hand and hand which is not good for hunting (I carry that gun while hunting, not FOR hunting). Do you bead blast or sand it first...to make it "stick"? Is it basically a spray paint?
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Do you have to mill the slide rails? Just the cost slowed me down from what I found.
Looks good, can't wait for the colored version.
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I just took my colt apart to clean, and also thought about coating it. Stainless and reflection seem to go hand and hand which is not good for hunting (I carry that gun while hunting, not FOR hunting). Do you bead blast or sand it first...to make it "stick"? Is it basically a spray paint?
I always have bead blasted but some people have had good luck just doing a real good degrease, I think baking helps a lot also.
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Do you have to mill the slide rails? Just the cost slowed me down from what I found.
Looks good, can't wait for the colored version.
For this build I did because I have a mill but there are two 80% 1911 frame company's out there right now that all you have to have to finish the frame is a vise. A drill press is helpful but not 100% required. You can get the frames in 7075, 4043, 416SS in many different configurations. If Don will allow it I will post links. I have done frames from 4ea different company's just to see the pros and cons.
You can even do AR15 lowers with a drill press and router now.
Again if Don allows me then I will post links with my experiences.
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Do it. I'll take the fall. (honestly, I would like to see these "blanks" myself, now that I have a mill)
...honestly don't see a problem with it. We link up goodies all of the time.
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Do you have to mill the slide rails? Just the cost slowed me down from what I found.
Looks good, can't wait for the colored version.
For this build I did because I have a mill but there are two 80% 1911 frame company's out there right now that all you have to have to finish the frame is a vise. A drill press is helpful but not 100% required. You can get the frames in 7075, 4043, 416SS in many different configurations. If Don will allow it I will post links. I have done frames from 4ea different company's just to see the pros and cons.
You can even do AR15 lowers with a drill press and router now.
Again if Don allows me then I will post links with my experiences.
Sure post them up
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Yep, I have a mill just wasn't sure and just the 2 slots right?
Ken, ARs are supper easy. Just set up a DRO (I built my own) and follow the numbers
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There are laser cut guide templates as well so even with a drill press you can do them.
Yep, I have a mill just wasn't sure and just the 2 slots right?
Ken, ARs are supper easy. Just set up a DRO (I built my own) and follow the numbers
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Ok let me type up some notes and I will get it posted.
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For simplicity I will on cover the 1911 80% frame suppliers on this post. Just an FYI there are MANY different options if you want to build your own firearm. 10/22, 1911, AR15, AR10, AK series, are just a few of the options. All the frames are series 70.
Anyway back to 1911 frames, the picture at the start of the post is a Tactical Machining Frame
Tactical Machining, this has been fantastic company to deal with, the 80% 1911 frames they supply are an investment cast 4140, they have a 1913 rail incorporated and the cost is $159. The completion Jig is $90. The fit and finish is not “show” quality but dimensionally it is correct and JIGs are ok. The operations that need to be completed are the Slide rails, Barrel Seat, Hammer and sear holes.
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/
Stealth Arms, makes a very nice 80% frames they are all 7075, they offer Government, Government with a rail, Compact(commander), Government Bobtail. The interesting tool that Stealth arms makes is a Jig that you can finish the frame with just a good bench vise and a drill press, you could use a hand drill but I don’t recommend. The jig works like a wood planner you just keeping moving the cutter out. The jig is well made but don’t get in a hurry take your time. The operations that need completed are, Slide rails, Barrel Seat, Hammer and sear holes. The Jig is designed for the 7075 frames they produce BUT people have been finishing steel frames from other vendors. I have been told that you have to change the cutters after doing one steel frame. Stealth also sells a standard Jig to use in a mill. The mill jig is $85 the Phantom Jig is $200, this is the jig you can use in the bench vise. The frames are anywhere from $165 to $225. Excellent customer service. The operations that need to be completed are the Slide rails, Barrel Seat, Hammer and sear holes.
https://www.stealtharms.net/shop/
1911 Builders IMO make the best frames that I have seen and the most configurations, they offer frames in 7075, 4140 Forged, 416SS, Government with and without rail, Commander with checkering and without . They offer a standard mill jig but they also offer a jig that is a hand crank to cut the slide rails, it work as the same principle as the Stealth arms Phantom jig but it uses a hand crank. The major difference is with the 1911 builder’s frames is that you have to have to deck the height of the frame but the barrel seat is already cut. The frames cost anywhere from $200-230, the standard mill jig is $100, they offer a drill press jig that is $200 and includes all bits and cutters, the hand crank cutter is $200 also. The decking jig is $60. The operations that need to be completed are the Slide rails, Frame Deck Height, Hammer and sear holes, but the barrel seat is cut.
http://1911builders.com/
The last Company I have used is Ares Armor, the frame they make is two piece the upper portion is 4140 steel and the lower portion is injection molded composite I am not sure what the material is the lower is secured to the upper using 4ea 8/32 fasteners. Of all the frames I have done to date this is the company I have been the most disappointed with. The fit of the lower to the upper was terrible to the point I had to cleanup the machining of the upper frame to make the lower fit properly. Also they were many endmill marks on the upper frame that will be visible one the frame is assembled, now given this can be cleaned up but I don’t think I should have to do this is a company has pride in what they produce and they aren’t just throwing parts in boxes. You have to buy the Ares Armor jig to complete the frame. The jig had the same quality issues as the frame it worked but not until I did some finishing work. Ares Armor 1911 frame is $200 and the jig is $60. The operations that need to be completed are the Slide rails, Barrel Seat, Hammer and sear holes. Customer service is slow but they did answer my questions after two weeks, shipping was slow to get processed.
http://aresarmor.com/store/
These are the four companies I have bought and built into working units, Sarco sells ParaOrdance 1911 style frames but dose not support the completion side of the process. One day when I have nothing better to do I will buy one of their frames and see what it takes to complete. As I stated I an only covering the 1911 Frames but I have done others also.
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Thanks. Just read 3 hours worth of data on dura verses cera. I think I've made up my mind. I have 5 free samples of cerakote on the way.
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Thanks. Just read 3 hours worth of data on dura verses cera. I think I've made up my mind. I have 5 free samples of cerakote on the way.
Kenny, make sure you do a good write up on the results...This type of info can make a difference
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Well, never received the samples, so I ordered 4 different colors. Also ordered a new paint gun, blast media, and some AR tools.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Ok, so I built a second 1911. I had bought a "blem" 1911 frame from tactical machining because they had them available and they are about 20% cheaper and I wanted to finish a frame using just hand tools, drill and drill press. So I a bought a rail cutting jig from matrix precision its basically a hand crank with two cutters that can be adjusted out fairly evenly. This jig dose an acceptable job of cutting the slide rails it was about .001 off on the height on one side but I made it work. I also bought the barrel seat cutter from matrix precision and it also dose a fairly good job of doing an acceptable cut. So you can build finish a 1911 frame with out a mill its not show quality but so far I have put about 200 rounds thru both units and have not had a malfunction yet. These are built using just basic replacement parts so nothing fancy
These two units were my test runs and will be my test mules for trying different parts and fitting components. I will always prefer using my mill verses the drill fixtures but at least I know what can be done that way.
The second unit I built is on top
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Nice job.
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Thanks for sharing. Any photos of the jigs or the frame before?
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Nice!
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Very nice, I like the color contrast.
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Thanks for sharing. Any photos of the jigs or the frame before?
I will post some up this weekend
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Very nice, I like the color contrast.
Haven't decided what I will do long term I have to get some more rounds thru them and then tear them down and measure everything and then coat with the final colors
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Haven't decided what I will do long term I have to get some more rounds thru them and then tear them down and measure everything and then coat with the final colors
I think they look good the way they are, but then again they are yours. Regardless, I'm waiting to see what happens.
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Well its been awhile so I started a new build, in a slightly different direction but the same idea.
Sig 229 build, I just have to cut the frame rails and then assemble.
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Nice project.
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Nice work! I'd be interested in seeing a step by step, using the hand tools, if you are of a mind to post a "How To" for the 1911. I've always wanted to build one!
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Since I broke my Hip recently I will have a little more time to type and write up How too's, I will take some pictures and write up some notes. But it is really amazing how simple it is!
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Sorry to hear about the hip! As to the simplicity of 1911 builds, I have heard that, but it's still a little daunting to undertake the first time.
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Well its been awhile so I started a new build, in a slightly different direction but the same idea.
Sig 229 build, I just have to cut the frame rails and then assemble.
Are you going to be able to stop playing with rockets long enough to get this together? That's my favorite pistol btw. You got my gun and my childhood dream job. Anything else you want there? :D
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Even with a broken Hip they wont let me take time off!!! I will have it together this weekend if all goes well. Well you could come and swap out the D60 hubs on my RC if you don't have anything else to do.
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A broken hip, how in the world? I guess you can move around pretty well if they won't let you off.
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Well how the hip got broken was me showing some very over confident snot nosed Jr engineer's that an old man could out run them with a 60lb pack strapped to my back, race was taking place with me leading until said snot nosed Jr engineer tripped and fell right into my back which pushed me flat on my face. my knee hit first which jammed the hip socket, doctor said I almost dislocated my hip joint.
I knew I broke something as soon as I tried to get back up, Xray two days later did not show any thing broken, it was not until I had the MRI three weeks later that showed the fracture AND labrum tear.
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Well how the hip got broken was me showing some very over confident snot nosed Jr engineer's that an old man could out run them with a 60lb pack strapped to my back, race was taking place with me leading until said snot nosed Jr engineer tripped and fell right into my back which pushed me flat on my face. my knee hit first which jammed the hip socket, doctor said I almost dislocated my hip joint.
I knew I broke something as soon as I tried to get back up, Xray two days later did not show any thing broken, it was not until I had the MRI three weeks later that showed the fracture AND labrum tear.
Damn, that sucks, Phil! Glad to hear that the whippersnapper had to resort to cheating, but sorry to hear he did so by breaking your hip. Are they going to have to do surgery to fix the labrum?
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I don't know yet, I still have pain in my hip from the fracture I can walk ok bend over, squat, craw if I have to but it really hurts if I try to run. Doctor says six more weeks of non impact activity and then I am hoping the pain goes away. I will not have the labrum repaired unless it gives me problems.
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I hear ya. I'm all about the knife as a last resort.
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You and JR can cripple around together, maybe get some work done?
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I know how he feels, but I am walking around with just an elastic brace now.
Do what they say or you will end up in a bed for 6-8 weeks if it gets worse.
Its not doing things your used too thats makes it tuff.
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I just figured you're both in CA, JR's slightly more mobile than he was, and is a hobby/professional level machinist. two half cripples make one whole, and possibly bada$$ guns?
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...two half cripples make one whole...
Comments like this can get you thrown in jail in Kalifornia, Tate! For SHAME!!! :o
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I will never tell what I have and what I can do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
But these help.
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but what will you do when they require you to register your machine tools?
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Nothing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have to finish the CNC drive part of the Mill. It went through a fire in 06 and I rebuilt it.
This was after the fire. About 3 grand into the rebuild.
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Nice, JR!
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nice!
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^^^^Almost looks like a gun part right there^^^^^
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Optical illusion I'm sure, you see that is in Cali where nothing bad ever happens as it is a utopian paradise. Thus there would never be a need for such things...... ::)
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Nope, just an illusion. Per the LAW it is just a chunk of metal still.
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Nope, just an illusion. Per the LAW it is just a chunk of metal still.
As are all firearms, abstractly. LOL!
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Ok got the Sig all finished up, a little slow going together the first time but I have it down now so it goes together much quicker. The attached picture shows the Home built 1911 and the Sig and the Store bought Kimber.
Weight of the units,
1. 1911 full size unloaded 2.4lbs
2. Sig 229 unloaded 1.8lbs
3. Kimber 1911 Ultra Carry unloaded 1.4lbs
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Nice collection. Like building ARs, it gets addicting.
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Ok got the Sig all finished up, a little slow going together the first time but I have it down now so it goes together much quicker. The attached picture shows the Home built 1911 and the Sig and the Store bought Kimber.
Weight of the units,
1. 1911 full size unloaded 2.4lbs
2. Sig 229 unloaded 1.8lbs
3. Kimber 1911 Ultra Carry unloaded 1.4lbs
I don't see a picture... :o
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You will now^^^
Beautiful guns....especially the 1911 up top.
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Nice. Any problems with the tiny 1911? I know they can get picky, a buddy of mine bought one, and it just never cooperated with him.
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The Kimber has been ultra-dependable I have never had a FTF. I only use good ammo and at a min I try to get 100rounds a month thru it, Kimber considers it broken in once you get to the 500 round mark. I am not real happy with the Series 80 design but I wanted it because I do carry this unit and I did not want an incident if it were dropped in a public crowded place!
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Very nice trio!
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The Kimber has been ultra-dependable I have never had a FTF. I only use good ammo and at a min I try to get 100rounds a month thru it, Kimber considers it broken in once you get to the 500 round mark. I am not real happy with the Series 80 design but I wanted it because I do carry this unit and I did not want an incident if it were dropped in a public crowded place!
Nice
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Nice collection. Like building ARs, it gets addicting.
that's an understatement!
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Picture of the rail cutting Jig's the shorter one is for the 1911 and the longer one is for the Sig. They do really well if you don't have a mill. I prefer the mill but I got these because I wanted to see how well they do.
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Finished my first 10/22 build using an 80% lower, really simple have not had a chance to shoot it yet. Note on 10/22 builds, you can buy a new complete basic 10/22 cheaper than you could ever assemble one, unless you got the parts for next to nothing. I did it because I just wanted to build a standard one to start. Next build will be a little more specialized.
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Finished my first 10/22 build using an 80% lower,
Looks nice. How long did it take?
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To finish the Receiver about 1 hour, and about the same to assemble everything, it will go quicker with the next unit.
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To finish the Receiver about 1 hour, and about the same to assemble everything, it will go quicker with the next unit.
Not bad. You going to leave it the raw looking color or are you going to coat it eventually?
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I will either anodize it or coat it but I always like to put 500 to 1000 rounds thru a project before I take it apart for final process.
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I will either anodize it or coat it but I always like to put 500 to 1000 rounds thru a project before I take it apart for final process.
Good idea. Any idea what you want to coat it with/color?
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Finished my first 10/22 build using an 80% lower, really simple have not had a chance to shoot it yet. Note on 10/22 builds, you can buy a new complete basic 10/22 cheaper than you could ever assemble one, unless you got the parts for next to nothing. I did it because I just wanted to build a standard one to start. Next build will be a little more specialized.
this one Don!
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Finished my first 10/22 build using an 80% lower, really simple have not had a chance to shoot it yet. Note on 10/22 builds, you can buy a new complete basic 10/22 cheaper than you could ever assemble one, unless you got the parts for next to nothing. I did it because I just wanted to build a standard one to start. Next build will be a little more specialized.
this one Don!
I see it
Now for a pistol...