My New Land "Raptor Ridge"

[Atkinsmatt]

Easy to break yours trying to push it too hard.  Also faster for moving gross amounts with the right tools.

[Bob Smith]

JR, if you can rent with operator, he will be finished by the time you relearn how to use a rental effectively. That  my case anyway when I needed some dirt work done.

[JR]

Yep, I hear you. Cool to do it myself but it makes sense and saves my kub.

[JR]

Been thinking about the well vs well saving rain water. I am reading that is not for potable use but only for vegetation.

Average is around 17in a year, more than enough for us but not much for trees and such.

Well is around 25-30k, plus all the other pumps, filters and maint. Heard water is not all that good either, old rocket site in the area and other crud.

Rain would run well under 5k with a good catch system and I can haul lots of water for that money.

They are plotting the land this week, plans to follow. Eng said I got a great price (I think so to) but I have lots more to do once this is done.

Soon as the pad is cleared, will move the container up there and my TH. Add a 2500 tank and go from there. 

[TexasRedNeck]

JR it really depends on what you ultimately want to do with the land.

If you plan on being there more than just part time it would seem to make sense to bit the bullet and drill a well. Rainwater catchment is always good so maybe start there and add a well as funds allow


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[KensAuto]

I think installing a well would be the one cost you would recoup when it's resold, or if you need to finance a cabin it might be required.

[JR]

Well would be my preference, just so much $$$. Of course then no issue with usage.

[Bob Smith]

Jr, get the well in place and install the pump and other stuff later.  Still thinking having someone walk it it for you is time well spent. Worse case is you just drill where you want. Best case you catch an artisan with endless supply. 

[JR]

The Eng I am using also does water and wells. Going to run by there tomorrow and see what they might say since they just surveyed he prop.

[JR]

2000 pics in the trail cam, didn't see a thing. Think the wind moving the tree set it off. Got a web style cam for it, see how it goes on a fence post thins time.

[JR]

Got the Topo back for the land, plans next week.

[BobbyB]

Got the Topo back for the land, plans next week.

What no grid lines?
No map data?
What's the contour interval?
Is it red-light readable?
Magnetic deviation?

How're we supposed to use this map? Now even officers might be able to find their way around your land without getting lost..

Nice map in all seriousness. Should make working on the land a bit easier.

[cj7ox]

Got the Topo back for the land, plans next week.

What no grid lines?
No map data?
What's the contour interval?
Is it red-light readable?
Magnetic deviation?

How're we supposed to use this map? Now even officers might be able to find their way around your land without getting lost..

Nice map in all seriousness. Should make working on the land a bit easier.

This officer can at least tell you the contour interval: 5ft 

[BobbyB]

This officer can at least tell you the contour interval: 5ft 

I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

[Flyin6]

Got the Topo back for the land, plans next week.

What no grid lines?
No map data?
What's the contour interval?
Is it red-light readable?
Magnetic deviation?

How're we supposed to use this map? Now even officers might be able to find their way around your land without getting lost..

Nice map in all seriousness. Should make working on the land a bit easier.

I'm up for a try! ;-)

[cj7ox]

I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

I did grow up (as an ossifer) having to land nav, at speed, on a tank without a compass. Yes, before BFTs and DAGRs (GPS type devices). LOL! My 19D Soldiers used to always give me grief for giving them land nav pop quizzes, and making them do dismounted land nav courses (at least the young ones did, the older ones knew better).

[BobbyB]

I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

I did grow up (as an ossifer) having to land nav, at speed, on a tank without a compass. Yes, before BFTs and DAGRs (GPS type devices). LOL! My 19D Soldiers used to always give me grief for giving them land nav pop quizzes, and making them do dismounted land nav courses (at least the young ones did, the older ones knew better).

I was great at terrain association, only used a compass at night mostly. Haven't done much land nav in a few years but I generally have a good sense of direction.

[Nate]

I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

I did grow up (as an ossifer) having to land nav, at speed, on a tank without a compass. Yes, before BFTs and DAGRs (GPS type devices). LOL! My 19D Soldiers used to always give me grief for giving them land nav pop quizzes, and making them do dismounted land nav courses (at least the young ones did, the older ones knew better).

I was great at terrain association, only used a compass at night mostly. Haven't done much land nav in a few years but I generally have a good sense of direction.

did you ever do the ranger landnav course at brag or was it benning?

[BobbyB]

did you ever do the ranger landnav course at brag or was it benning?

Bragg. Never went to Ranger school.

[Nate]

did you ever do the ranger landnav course at brag or was it benning?

Bragg. Never went to Ranger school.

I know that, i was asking because the land nav course at benning is notorious for being the reason why so many 11 series fail pldc and bncoc.

[TexasRedNeck]

You mean I couldn’t use google earth?


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[BobbyB]

I know that, i was asking because the land nav course at benning is notorious for being the reason why so many 11 series fail pldc and bncoc.

Honestly most people fail at Land Nav because they don't do it very often. My platoon leaders, platoon sergeants and squad leaders used to push that on us all the time, plus being in a BN Mortar platoon it's kind of a big deal to be able to read a map and get from one spot to another quickly. We had some officers take up out to the land nav course and set short time limits and as many points as possible.

[Atkinsmatt]

It is a very perishable skill.  Like Bobby said, most people don't do it enough and a lot of folks would be in trouble if the batteries died.

[TexasRedNeck]

All kidding aside guys. I’d like to acquire more knowledge i this area. Please share some basics. I’ve gottten decent with a compass and in open terrain I’m ok. I’m dense forest I’m lost

Maybe one of you guys start another thread?

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[cj7ox]

It is a very perishable skill.  Like Bobby said, most people don't do it enough and a lot of folks would be in trouble if the batteries died.

Exactly! This is why I used to force my Soldiers to do LN courses as a PL and Troop CO. I've stayed fairly proficient, since I've been teaching it to ROTC Cadets for so long. From a moving vehicle, you have to be able to terrain associate. Working with a compass, and protractor just isn't possible while mounted.

[cj7ox]

All kidding aside guys. I’d like to acquire more knowledge i this area. Please share some basics. I’ve gottten decent with a compass and in open terrain I’m ok. I’m dense forest I’m lost

Maybe one of you guys start another thread?

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The biggest thing is being able to understand the terrain features on your map, and visualize what they represent on the ground. That's step one. The next most important thing, is knowing the print date of whatever map you are using. This gets Soldiers/Cadets in trouble all the time. They try to terrain associate/navigate using man-made features on a map printed in the 1970s, without understanding that additional roads may have been added, or removed, between then and now.

[BobbyB]

in trouble all the time. They try to terrain associate/navigate using man-made features on a map printed in the 1970s, without understanding that additional roads may have been added, or removed, between then and now.

Or my favorite, you're given a photocopy of a copy of a map where literally EVERYTHING is black and smudged... gotta love budget cut maps. lol

[Flyin6]

As a Night Stalker, navigation, precision navigation was our granite.

Like Bobby said, terrain association is THE key element to getting oneself oriented aside from electronic aids. But once you get oriented, you need to stay that way. I used to teach that portion of our green platoon for new hopefuls entering the regiment. Map prep and map study is very important

Some tips: first use the right scale map

The 1:50,000 topo with the mgrs system is the standard, followed by the 1:24,000 being very useful, especially with slower or no speeds. Of course with the higher speeds of flying low level, we used the 1:250,000 scale JOG (Joint Operation Graphic) map, but that has no application to this discussion

Study the legend. You can learn alot and the map will really start to "Talk" to you. You'll find out that that little circle with a dot at the center is the symbol for a tower! What we would do is to prep our maps by taking a highlighter and actually drawing a small tower (Like an inverted "V") over the location. Then every time you get to a cleared area or high ground find the towers then compare the terrain with what you are sitting on.

Learn to do "resection" (Goggle that) from two known points with a good compass. The intersection of those two lines is your location.

Do not plan to move large distances in forested terrain. 5-6 kilometers is a good night's walk, like all night long.

Fold your map and maybe even cut it into panels so that it can be flipped through like a book. If you do that give each row a similar marking in the same corner so when you flip a page, you won't be one map sheet off. For surface navigation, this may not be necessary unless you are going to be operating over a larger area for quite some time.

Take note of the magnetic declination as it can be great in some areas of the world. Then note the date of the map and the annual rate of change. Do the math and come up with the actual variance than plot a angle showing the variance and put it in a corner somewhere. You may be surprised to find out your 270 degrees is actually 258 degrees. It can get that big, and the world wide annual rate of change is really picking up. Most old maps, circa 1970's will be up to 20 degrees off!

Take the map and study it in the bathroom with the lights off and the window shades pulled. Note that the detail is far less. You may want to highlight or trace other every indes grid line, like every 5th one to give you an idea of slope and help in low light situations.

Bobby can teach this better than I, but you need to learn your pace count.

Mark out 100 meters. Not 100 yards, but 100 meters. Mark it out on level ground hard surface like a road. Now walk it both directions  twice. Take the pace count from each trip, add together and divide by 4. This is your level ground pace count,
Ok we have a theoretical 78 steps on average to go one hundred meters for our imaginary navigator. Now set the course up on a grassy and clumpy field and walk it again, 4 times, both directions. Do the math. You notice it took a couple more steps? Your average increased to 80-81?? OK, whatever it is, it "IS."

Next set up another course on a slope. Do it in several spots. Walk it upslope and record that number, then down slope and record that number of steps in another column. Do it on a shallow and on a steeper slope. Do a lot of walking. Do the math again and record your results

Notice that the number of steps increases again. Down hill could take more steps than going uphill? Surprised?

Record this data.

Now make up a couple lengths of 550 cord and tie a knot on either end. Then tie ten knots tightly with another piece of 550 cord onto the length. Create it so that with some resistance, you can pull the knot from one end to the other.

You can do this with only one if you want or create several. I use one for flat and level, one for upslope and one for downslope.

Since the number of steps required to go 100 meters varies slightly you can be very accurate by using the several length method.

So as you start off from a known point and move out, say, toward that distant peak or tower, which we know is due west, we start to count steps. Every time you hit your pace count number for the given terrain, pull one knot to the bottom. After going for awhile, look and notice that you have, lets say, five knots pulled down. That means you have traveled 500 meters, or 1/2 kilometer, equal to one half the distance of one grid square. Look due west from where you started, in this example at the point that is 500 meters west and that is your location.

One thing I would do is also carry a length of white chord. I would mark a black dot at every kilometer and a red dot in between the black dots for my 1/2 click distances. Simply lay the string on the map along your path and you can plot your location. I use a string because you almost never travel in a straight line, and a string can be laid down in any shape needed.

Again, let me say I am no expert on surface navigation, but I have done it some. I am an expert on low level aerial navigation, so for whatever of that translates, I'd be happy to help. Your standard issue Infantryman will easily make the fool of any pilot in the back country!

[Flyin6]

All kidding aside guys. I’d like to acquire more knowledge i this area. Please share some basics. I’ve gottten decent with a compass and in open terrain I’m ok. I’m dense forest I’m lost

Maybe one of you guys start another thread?

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Tex, Done

I started it in the knowledge base section

Now, with a grain of salt, an aviator created the first mini-class on land navigation. This would be a lot like my dog teaching a latin course or a Dave explaining the concept of tact! ;-)

So, I'd invite the many resident experts who visit here to write up short little letters or compositions explaining some orientering skill, or even expand it to include some survival skills that you may be expert at. Lets put it in the knowledge base section and start each thread with Pioneering Skills:_________ where you fill in your subject to look like this:

Pioneering Skills: How to herd cats

I began the thing writing about some basic land navigation skills. I could expand that to aviation navigation if we all buy jets and get Phil to write up space navigation should we push the envelope.

Personally, I'd like to see writeups about emergency medical care
Building shelters
Hypothermia/heat exhaustion
making fire
Hiding
rucksack prep
knives
necessary tools
finding water/making potable
Diseases/poisonous things
Finding food (Not McDonalds)
Other things like these...

Mostly, I'd like to encourage the military guys to share what they have been taught. I think we as a group of ex/current mil guys got to learn from some great schools and experts. We have learned things that the average fully engaged civilian never had time to learn. We have developed and honed our craft and many of the things we take for granted are unknown to our fellow countrymen and would be of great benefit to them.

[dave945]

I can help out with the finding shelter / food/ water, but everyone will need to have their own accounts on Expedia or Travelocity. My US Air Force honed skills only go so far.   

Seriously though, I’m very interested to see where this goes and to pick up additional skills beyond what I have managed to learn/self teach.


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[Nate]

I can help out with the finding shelter / food/ water, but everyone will need to have their own accounts on Expedia or Travelocity. My US Air Force honed skills only go so far.   

Seriously though, I’m very interested to see where this goes and to pick up additional skills beyond what I have managed to learn/self teach.


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I dont think don was talking about staying at 4 star hotels dave....

[BobbyB]

I dont think don was talking about staying at 4 star hotels dave....

A 4 star hotel? Did you want them to get substandard living pay allowances?

[dave945]

Ha!  My last deployment was to England to support intel systems for the Kosovo operations. Yes, when I was given the orders, I was not provided a location until I was read in and signed the orders, and even up until the end there was a chance I would be sent downrange. On that deployment I stayed in a four star hotel, but it was better than most US four star hotels. So I brought my girlfriend over and we got married and stayed on our honeymoon for the last two months of the deployment.   I enjoyed my deployments, even to Saudi and turkey.


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[Nate]

 

[BobbyB]

My last deployment  I stayed in a four star hotel, but it was better than most US four star hotels. So I brought my girlfriend over and we got married and stayed on our honeymoon for the last two months of the deployment.   I enjoyed my deployments, even to Saudi and turkey.

New US military recruiting commercial....

Deployments... Experiences will VARY.. lol

[Flyin6]

Know what?

I'm glad someone gets treated well, good for you Dave

Any of the rest of us would have willingly taken any of that, but it's just not a part of the mix for most of the military.

I for one appreciated the many times I deployed with the Air Force as a part of AFSOC. I ate well, had a good place to sleep, great support and didn't sweat the details. Someone else was doing that stuff for us.

I have to say I was shocked when in Saudi, once, attached to 5th SFG I was given a range rover as my vehicle. A real live Range rover...leather, AC, stereo, and this great suspension that we tested in the whoops or what ever you call those things in the sand dunes that get you airborne for awhile! ;-))

[KensAuto]

Experian..lol Dave.

Well, you lost me at the "not McDonald's" section.

[JR]

Raptor Ridge, boy has gotten all DOT'd up!!!!

[JR]

Anyway, got my finished plans from the Eng. Looks great but appears the pad if 100' to far north and east.

Email sent but I am heading up to mark it out for sure.

[JR]

Staked out the area I want and did some clean up. When putting the new seat on the kub, popcorn did its thing, what a mess.

Brought the blower/vac up and cleaned about 95% of it up using the WEN 2k gen. Fired up on 2nd pull and ran sweet.

Seat looks good, but need a couple adapter brackets for it.

View is great from my pad site.

[rpar86]

Popcorn?


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[JR]

Foam packing popcorn

[KensAuto]

Nice view. Your hills look taller in that pic, than the ones before.

[cj7ox]

That's a gorgeous view, JR!

[JR]

Thanks guys, that is from my pad site. You can see more over the hill on the right in the pic, but I have never liked houses right on the top of hills. This site offers a little protection from weather. The valley floor is 4400ft, same as Reno that is straight over the far ridge in the picture. Virginia peak is about 3mi due east of me, 3000ft higher. My driveway will come up behind the pad.

Here is another pic looking north from the pad area and there is another ridgeline behind that several hundred ft higher.

[JR]

Here is the pad location on the new topo map. Eng had it well north and east right into the hillside.

Red=my site
blue=eng site

[Bigdave_185]

Did you ever say why the engineer put your pad in the other location?


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[Flyin6]

That is a great deal more elevation/slope than I thought up to this point. Real hill right there.

In the future you will be able to get your exercise by just walking down the driveway, then running back up, say 5-6 times in a row.

[JR]

Did you ever say why the engineer put your pad in the other location?


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He went off sketches that really had no scale. Don't really blame him.

[JR]

That is a great deal more elevation/slope than I thought up to this point. Real hill right there.

In the future you will be able to get your exercise by just walking down the driveway, then running back up, say 5-6 times in a row.

Trudging around up there all the time when there. Plus coming from MSL to 5200ft, it actually feels pretty good.